[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Faith Without Works is Dead  (Read 9971 times)

JohnDunningUK

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
  • In this world, but not of it!
    • Fight4TheFaith
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2012, 11:21:58 PM »
I don't know if anyone here knows something of Biblical Greek, but is there anything key in the construct of the text that points to the translation being the "faith of Christ", rather than "faith in Christ"? For arguments sake it means the same thing to me personally, for I believe the faith I have found that allows me to believe upon Christ is a gift from God, as mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9. However if there is something specific in the text itself, it would be useful to me, especially in some ongoing discussions I've been having with a few people who are of a more Arminian leaning.
It's all about Him!

John

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Gender: Male
  • A man with God is always in the majority-John Knox
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2012, 11:17:58 AM »
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

JohnDunningUK

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
  • In this world, but not of it!
    • Fight4TheFaith
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »


First read through Tony's study:  http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/faith_of_christ_or_faith_in_christ.shtml

Thanks John, I'll have a read through it. I did come across a short article online shortly after my post actually, which seemed to be pointing me in the right direction anyway. :) http://undeception.com/pistis-iesou-christou/
It's all about Him!

Fred

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2013, 12:51:16 AM »
I still do not understand why one would believe that works is not critical in faith? Because it says so in the book of James quite clearly.

 James 2:20
    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
 
 James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I've read the posts, I've heard the excuses, but I don't get reformed theology. I believe that we have free will, but God still receives all the glory.

Melanie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
  • Gender: Female
  • 🌴"But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. -Psalm 52:8"
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2018, 02:08:18 PM »
I still do not understand why one would believe that works is not critical in faith?

Because you and all Free Will advocates have it backwards. It's that faith is critical to works, not the other way around. Without the faith of Christ, all your works are worthless before God. That's why.


Quote
James 2:20
    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
 

It's dead because the faith underpinning it is not saving faith. Saving faith is of the faithfulness of Christ, not our own.


Joe Johnson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2018, 12:05:35 AM »
I still do not understand why one would believe that works is not critical in faith?

Because you and all Free Will advocates have it backwards. It's that faith is critical to works, not the other way around. Without the faith of Christ, all your works are worthless before God. That's why.

Easy believism in a nutshell. The liberals philosophy of life, to do nothing in order to gain everything. They don't understand that nothing is free. This is what the denial of free will will get you. Liberal Christian ideas that we are robots.

You think you are right but the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone. Are you aware of that. Moreover, the phrase "faith alone" occurs only once, and that is in the book of James where it says that we are not saved by faith alone. So by your own recognition of authority of scripture you keep talking about,  why do you Calvinists say we are justified by faith alone and not by works? 

Melanie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
  • Gender: Female
  • 🌴"But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. -Psalm 52:8"
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2018, 03:41:46 AM »
Easy believism in a nutshell.

Joe,
  The bible teaches the security of salvation as a biblical fact. This is not based on our opinion as the doctrine of free will is, but is based on the finished work of salvation in Christ. If that's true, there is no work that can be added to it to effect its everlasting efficacy.

Rick Reeves

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 01:00:45 AM »
Joe, How do we give the poor Christian assurance on the day of judgment if we are saved by works and all our works are as filthy rags before God.

Scotty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2018, 03:28:08 AM »
Easy believism in a nutshell.

What is easy believism?  :-\

Pilgrim

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Gender: Male
  • Reformed and Reforming
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2018, 09:09:28 AM »
“Easy-believism” is a doctrine that basically teaches that anyone who calls upon the name of the lord is saved and cannot be lost. This doctrine is entirely false with no basis in Scripture. Some Dispensationalists attempt to attach this title to the Reformed doctrine of “Perseverance of the saints,” which is an entirely different doctrine fully supported by Scripture.

In fact the easy believism doctrine is actually more connected with Dispensationalism's free will, which is a teaching that serves as a foundational theological support for it. Because according to classic Dispensationalism, the gospel that Christ proclaimed was a gospel for the ethnic Jews alone. This is the teaching that Christ promised earthly rewards in the Jewish millennial Kingdom for their works of submitting to and following Christ. Classic Dispensationalism teaches that this “gospel of the Kingdom” is categorically different from the Gospel of salvation by grace for gentiles. They claim the apostle Paul later proclaimed this grace doctrine. However, none of this is true.
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2528
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2018, 01:35:40 PM »
Quote from: Pilgrim
“Easy-believism” is a doctrine that basically teaches that anyone who calls upon the name of the lord is saved and cannot be lost. This doctrine is entirely false with no basis in Scripture.

Agreed. There are many carnal people who "came to the altar" and "pray a sinner prayer" where they have "made a decision" or "accept Christ" may not genuinely be saved. This is the easy way for anyone to do without true repentance or conversion. It is called "easy believism."  The true salvation is when we are saved by the power of God for the purpose of God, and that purpose includes the works that give evidence of our conversion. Those who continue to walk according to the flesh are not believers, Romans 8:5–8. These are also the people God talked about in Revelation 9:6. 

This is why Paul exhorts us to “examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith," 2 Corinthians 13:5.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Rose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
  • De 8:8 "A land of oil olive, and honey.."
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2018, 04:57:24 AM »
So you don't believe in the carnal Christian, someone who still has sin but is saved?
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

Jon Thomas

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2018, 07:46:16 AM »
Quote
First read through Tony's study:  http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/faith_of_christ_or_faith_in_christ.shtml

Wow! This was a absolutely excellent article and gave me a lot of understanding of the original Greek and why it is faith of Christ. The Things I learn here I have never had explained to me before and I am very grateful. God is good.


George

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2018, 11:42:59 AM »
Jon,
You think that because you've been sucked into Tony Warren's world of the error of Reformed Theology, which is not only erroneous but dangerous. This doctrine claims that Christ did not make people redeemable, he actually redeemed a people, and none of them can be lost. That's not a true statement, and let's check the bible on that.

John 1:29 
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world".

If he took away the sins of the world, and some of the world can be lost, then the Reformed belief is untrue.

John 3:17 
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved".

The same with this bible verse. It makes all redeemed, instead of making it possible that all could be redeemed.

1 John 2:2 
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world".

This doesn't say that Christ did not make all people redeemable as Tony says, it says Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. So he did make all people redeemable. The difference on who is redeemed is free will.


Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2018, 03:21:03 AM »
>>>
So you don't believe in the carnal Christian, someone who still has sin but is saved?
<<<

To quote the apostle Paul, God Forbid!

We all still sin in the flesh, but we don't all still live in sin while claiming it is excused by grace. There is no such thing as a "Carnal Christian" because such corruption of the "New Spiritual Man" theology is at enmity with God's word. Mankind is either Carnal or he is Spiritual, never both. He may sin, but he cannot live in sin because he was born from above.

Romans 8:7-8
  • "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
  • So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

They that are still in the flesh are un-renewed, un-redeemed, un-regenerated sinners wherein it is impossible to be pleasing to God. We are either Carnal or Christian, and either of the flesh or of the Spirit, but not both. Being a Carnal Christian is like saying we are the living-dead. It doesn't make sense "as far as being a Christian."

Search: The Carnal Christian

The whole genesis of the doctrine of the "Carnal Christian" seems to me to be an invention of man in order to excuse continuing in sin. It's nothing more than a  justification and pardon of Christians for continuing to live in the flesh while holding on to the idea that they are still regenerated Christians. i.e., living like Hell but claiming citizenship in the kingdom of heaven. This idea of mixing carnality and Christianity is at the root of what God addressed through the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 6:

Romans 6:1-2
  • "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
  • God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

How are we made dead to sin through regeneration and still living in sin? In other words, you cannot in truth claim that you are a Christian and yet continue in sin "as if" grace will wink at your friendship with the world. Grace is not a Panacea or universal cure-all that justifies our continuing to live a life of sin. Our works on this earth "evidence" our true nature. Or to put it another way, we know what we are by the fruit (Matthew 7:16) that we produce. Do people gather grapes from thorns, or do they gather figs from thistles? The honest answer is no. So may we continue in sin because grace is abundant? Not if we are "really" born of the Spirit. Indeed, this passage illustrates it is a total perversion of the doctrine of Grace to claim Carnal Christianity or to justify living in sin because grace is abundant.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]