Visiting The Iniquity Of The Fathers Upon The Children

[dsouzaanthony]

Exodus 20:5     Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

Also Num 14:18

Can anyone explain to me what God means by saying that he visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me?  How and why third and fourth generation?

Thanks and God bless.

[Carol]

Maybe because a person might live to see their third and fourth generation, so it would be more painful for them to watch their family members suffering from the visiting of the iniquity because of THEIR sin.

That's one explanation that John Gill's commentary gives.

Blessings in Christ,
Carol

[Tony Warren]

>>>
Can anyone explain to me what God means by saying that he visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me?  How and why third and fourth generation?

Thanks and God bless.
<<<

Here is what I believe the passage teaches. God is jealous or has "divine indignation" over man serving other gods. His righteous indignation is in the sense of the zeal and passion of the divine creator against the evil of man in serving the creation rather than the creator. Jealousy illustrates His displeasure with those who bestow upon false gods the glory, honor and servitude that belong only to him.

2nd Corinthians 11:2

• "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Those who serve other gods have their iniquity passed down from generation to generation as children follow the ideas of their parents. This is also why God warns Christians not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Because inevitably they will pass down their iniquity (being an unbeliever) to your children through their philosophies, iddeas, morality and teachings. This is exactly how the world was corrupted in Genesis chapter 6 as the Sons of God (believers) started lusting after and marrying the daughters of men (unbelievers). As a result, their children became corrupted and the world became continually wicked. They served other gods and their children grew father and farther away from God. They had broken the covenant with God. Much like it is in our day.


Psalms 132:12

• "If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."

i.e., children are also blessed when the parents keep the word of God faithfully, that they do not go after other gods. Generally speaking, when God's people are committed to God, they train their children in a Godly way, that the curse of God not come upon them.  So that God has in a sense, set in motion the formation of their future character. But likewise, when people fall away to serve other gods, their children follow in their footsteps in the same ungodly way, that the curse of God does come upon them. Thus in their spiritual harlotry, God, being sovereign,  has visited the iniquity of the fathers upon the children.

God visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children in that He is sovereign ruler over all things, and so He puts up one and casts down another. He is under "no obligation" to save anyone, and so if He decides that He won't save the children of those who serve false gods and that hate him, this is not unrighteous in any way. God does that all the time, and this can be seen rather clearly around the world. Look at China, Egypt, or South America for example. Generally speaking, the children serve the gods of their fathers. It is the exception, not the rule, when God saves someone from the false religions that run rampant in these countries. The fact is, they usually "universally" remain in the iniquity of their fathers.

Their iniquity visited upon them is "of their own doing," and a natural progression of their parents raising them up. But it works out in the divine purpose of God in illustrating the iniquity of the world in serving the creation rather than the creator. Sin is often conceived by the parents, and through tradition passed on to their children that they continue in their own sins. God is not responsible if the parents are full of iniquity, and passes that down to their children. But God is sovereign, thus under no obligation to change it. So except for a remnant, the children are visited of the sins of the fathers. Yet they are judged of their own sins, not their father's, nor of any perceived capriciousness of God.

James 1:13-15

• "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
• But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
• Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

It is "the exception" when children of parents in false gospels come to Christ. i.e., if you're raised a Muslim, it is the exception when you don't remain Muslim, serving your parents god. It is the sins of the fathers visited upon the children. It is usually universally that way. Because the iniquity of the parents passes on to children. Practically it is through their children being indoctrinated by their beliefs and lifestyles. And it obviously was not the will and purpose of God to change that. Except for the Elect.

The number three is a number that illustrates God's purpose, and the number 4 universality.

Proverbs 22:6

• "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

There is the principle, put more succinctly. Christians are exhorted to train or instruct their children in righteous ways, that they remain children of God. But those who forsake God and serve other gods, their children are also trained, and thus will be snared just as their fathers were. And in this way, God being Sovereign over all things, has visited the iniquity of the fathers upon the children. the nation of Israel hates Christ, and remains in sin "to this day" because God has visited her iniquity upon her children. AND there was nothing unjust or unrighteous about that. It does not violate the law of Deuteronomy, and neither does Exodus 20:5.

Deuteronomy 24:16

• "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

One thing we know about the law of God. One scripture cannot contradict another. When the children sin, and are visited of God for it, it is because of their own sins. But sin that was often institutionalized, by the fathers. We're all responsible only for our own sins, but by the same token, our parents are those who raised us up in that sin, or in righteousness. As Parents, they were/are thus responsible for our well being. Parents have that responsibility. but that does not leave the children blameless.

Daniel 9:16

• "O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us."

Not that they must account for the sins of their fathers (clearly it says for their own sins), but that their fathers sins are also responsible for their sinful condition. Irresponsible parenting is a sin. They are confessing that it was by their fathers' iniquity, unfaithfulness and disobedience that they have come to this point. But they still must account "only" for their own sins in following their father's ways. For there is no excuse for sin. Those who hate God will have this judgment upon them, for iniquity begets iniquity. It was His sovereign good will and purpose to do so. But God rewards those who Love Him and obey His commands by bestowing mercy upon them. A glorious contrast of the promise God made to those who hate Him, and those who love Him.

Deuteronomy 5:9-10

• "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
• And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."

nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[john]

The clause "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation" is used in relation to God's covenant with Israel as He passes by. It expresses, I think, the covenantal dictates of mercy for those who seek God and judgment upon those who transgress His law. God is declaring the covenantal blessings and curses.


Exodus 34:7
7  Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.


Moses realizes that Israel is a rebellious people and immediately acts as intercessor asking God to exhibit grace and pardon their iniquity.

Exo 34:9   And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiff-necked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.


In this context, I think God expresses the reality of the original broken covenant between God and Adam -- in which Adam transgressed and his sin is visited on all generations, father to child. This state of brokenness and rebellion is the overarching reality -- but God's covenant is to keep mercy for thousands who He will, as it were, pluck from the mire. 

In other words, this state of God visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children is the state of affairs in operation since Cain killed Abel -- it is the like begetting like. Upon this framework God covenants to redeem a people for Himself, a people that will keep His law. This was not national Israel but spiritual Israel that inherited the eternal covenant. The eternal covenant likewise is pictured negatively as to the third and fourth generation to those that hate God.

In other words, the evil generation (father - son promulgations) of wickedness will continue by the purpose of God in all mankind (barring God's grace). Its final outcome will be the casting away of this evil generation into outer darkness forever -- as it is written, in dying spiritually you shall surely die eternally. As the covenant of grace is extended eternally so the covenant of judgment is extended eternally. Ultimately, God visits the iniquity of those who hate him back upon them with a vengeance.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

It is true that sinful man raises sinful children. It is also true that God sets apart the believing family and sanctifies it. We see two different generations working side by side. Evil men begetting evil men as the blind lead the blind. Good fruit sprouts forth from good trees and Christ is that Good Tree that sprouts good fruit (His elect). 

Luke 6:43
43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Corrupt men continue to produce corrupt seed until the last day when God burns the brambles with fire. It is this fallen creation that produces nothing but brambles who hate God.

It is God who dresses the soil (by His power not ours) so that it brings forth that good vegetation, the things that are blessed from God.

Hebrews 6:7-8
7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth vegetation meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

In this we can see the importance of God's eternal covenant to remove the sin from His thousands (fullness of His elect), the ones He keeps His mercy for, and the need for Christ to be our propitiation. Otherwise, we would all together be cursed unto the third and fourth generation -- that is, to remain eternally under God's wrath.

john

[George]

This is exactly how the world was corrupted in Genesis chapter 6 when the Sons of God (believers) started going after the daughters of men (unbelievers), and as a result their children became corrupted and the world became continually wicked. They served other gods and their children broke the covenant with God.

Psalms 132:12

• "If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."
  

I don't understand this covenant theology stuff that you guys keep talking about. What do you mean the children broke the covenant. You're saying that if an Egyptian doesn't turn to christ, he has broken the covenant and his children are cursed? When did God make a covenant with Egypt or with China that their children might suffer? I thought the covenant was with Israel? Covenant theology seems inconsistent.

[Wonder]

I see God's visit on iniquity as a blessing. People, even parents teach some things wrong. I see that God is saying that He will fix it if it gets to far. As He fixes our boo boos we gain knowledge and understanding. At the last generation, we will all be made perfect. I know not many see it that way. But I do perfer knowing God will correct us over condemning us.
He is doing alot of that visiting now 
In His Love

[Jimmy]

Exd 20:5       Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

I am having trouble understanding just what is meant here. Does this mean that the sins of my grandfather or great grandfather could affect my life here on this earth? It seems to be that this is what is being said here. If not, how am I to understand this?

[Tony Warren]

>>>
Exd 20:5       Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

I am having trouble understanding just what is meant here. Does this mean that the sins of my grandfather or great grandfather could affect my life here on this earth?
<<<

Yes. Sin always affects the children. That's why God says parents are to train up their child in the right way. Because it matters for the future.

Proverbs 23:12-14

• "Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
• Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
• Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

   
ust as not training up our children in the right way affects the future. Your sins will be visitwed upon your children. Unfortunately, that is what the Christian parents are finding out in our day, as this latest generation has fallen miles from the previous, and DIRECTLY because of lax parenting. IMHO

>>>
It seems to be that this is what is being said here. If not, how am I to understand this?
<<<

I have attached your message to a previous thread where a similar question was asked, because they are very much connected.

"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[Jimmy]

Thanks Tony,for redirecting the thread, I think I now have a better understanding of that verse.
I'm very thankful and humbled, for I think I am an "exception". An even greater appreciation for such undeserving grace.

[Halle]

I don't understand this covenant theology stuff that you guys keep talking about. What do you mean the children broke the covenant. You're saying that if an Egyptian doesn't turn to christ, he has broken the covenant and his children are cursed? When did God make a covenant with Egypt or with China that their children might suffer? I thought the covenant was with Israel? Covenant theology seems inconsistent.

 It is not inconsistent, it is simply that a lot of Christians don't understand God's word very well. All mankind has broken the covenant of works God instituted in the garden of Eden. That's why we need a savior to make things right. That Covenant promised man that if he disobeyed, he would surely die. Tony, correct me if I'm wrong.

 Genesis 2:16 & 17
 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".

God said he put all there for man's enjoyment, but he also promised that one tree was not to be eaten of, and if man disobeyed him, he would die. Man disobeyed, and he died as promised by God. God keeps his promises.

[da525382]

I was raised in a church where these verses were used to argue that Adam was guilty only for his own sins, that that could not in any way be passed on to us, hence there was no such thing as original sin since we can only be accoutable and guilty for our own sin.

[Tony Warren]

>>>
 All mankind has broken the covenant of works God instituted in the garden of Eden. That's why we need a savior to make things right. That Covenant promised man that if he disobeyed, he would surely die. Tony, correct me if I'm wrong.
<<<

No, that's correct. The word Covenant actually means Promise, as it is an Oath/Pledge to do something. It can be a conditional Promise/Covenant or an unconditional one. When God made the promise that if they ate of the tree of knowledge, they would surely die, that was a Covenant of works. A Promise that "IF" they disobeyed Him, they would suffer death.

>>>
..God keeps his promises.
<<<

God keeps His Covenants, absolutely. Both Conditional and Unconditional. Whether of works (The soul that sinneth, it shall die) or of Grace (whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die). Thus God in His divine sovereignty, visiting the iniquity of fathers upon children, is the natural outgrowth of man serving false gods. Even as having mercy upon us and our children is the natural outgrowth of the man who serves the true God. He will be a God to us, and our children.

Exodus 20:5-6

• "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
• And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

God is a jealous God, under no obligation to save the children of them who bow down to serve other gods. By contrast, the children of those who love Him are of a different promise:

Genesis 17:7

• "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."

Two diverse seeds, with two diverse promises. Works versus Grace.


"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[Tony Warren]

>>>
I was raised in a church where these verses were used to argue that Adam was guilty only for his own sins, that that could not in any way be passed on to us, hence there was no such thing as original...
<<<

That would be a direct contradiction of the Holy scriptures. For God declares plainly that by one man's offense, sin and the sting of death entered into the world. Yet we have Churches without conscience declaring this is not true, and that Adam couldn't pass on sin to mankind. But it always boils down to the same question. Who are we going to believe? God or man.

Romans 5:17

• "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Here again we can see the Covenant of works versus the Covenant of Grace. One man, Adam, sinned and broke the covenant of works, thereby bringing death into the world upon man. Likewise, one man, Jesus Christ, atoned for sin, thereby instituting God's Covenant of grace in the world. Sin (transgression of the law) was the offense, and atonement was the solution. And it is perfectly clear that this offense was brought in by one man.

Romans 5:18

• "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
• For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

It can't get much clearer than that. To argue that Adam's sin could not in any way be passed on to us, is to argue against scripture.

>>>
...sin since we can only be accoutable and guilty for our own sin.
<<<

That's true. When we sin, it is our own sin, and not Adam's sin. But Adam's seed remains in unsaved man. What Adam did became a part of man in carnality. It was through Adam that we received our carnality. In other words, unsaved man is in the flesh of Adam, and in bondage to sin through the action of Adam many years ago. That doesn't mean that subsequent men are therefore not responsible for their own sins, it means that it was by Adam's disobedience that he has the inclination to sin.

Ezekiel 18:20

• "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:"

Adam isn't sinning anymore, we're sinning. We're not bearing the iniquity of Adam, as Adam is long gone. We bear our own transgressions of the law, our own sin.

As a practical example, if someone's father was a drunk and his child was indoctrinated in a lifestyle of drinking, and naturally grew up to be a drunk, just like his father. That father in a real sense is the root of his son's drinking problem. The son inherited it from his father. But that doesn't mean that the son is therefore not responsible for his own drinking. He is. In this same way, we are all responsible for our own sins. Yet we have the inclination to sin because of the disobedience of our forefather, Adam.


"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[da525382]

Thank  you for this great post, Tony. I have discussed these verses in Romans 5, esp verse 18, and of course, all I get is the standard reply:
 BUT they must be read in context AND with the understanding of Paul's use of hyperbole, and on and on, ad nauseum  It is just impossible, really, to discuss it with these people who don't believe in original sin.  It makes the 5th chapter of Romans look quite senseless and useless for Paul to even have discussed Adam, making the contrasting comparison with Christ.....I guess I have grieved over it every day of my life as I grew up with this mentality, I have cried about it, it has gone with me my whole life.  What can one say about these people and their reasoning? There is nothing.  

I have read that one reason the Jewish community rejected Paul in the past, and today as well, was the fact that there was no original sin in Judaism, so Paul was looked at as a wack-o when he said what he did in Romans 5.