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Author Topic: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan  (Read 22010 times)

Daniel1210

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Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« on: April 26, 2003, 04:17:26 PM »
OK, I'm new here, and not Reformed, but have a Pastor friend who is..we discuss this stuff constantly.

Amillenialism, I've read the articles, etc..but if this is the thousand year reign, is amillenialism saying this is the best God can do? The Bible itself says that the devil is the leader of the world.
War, crime, poverty, disease, famine...this is part of the thousand year reign of Christ? I don't get it.

All replies welcome, not here to start a beef or open a can of worms, just looking for plain English viable answers.

Tony Warren

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2003, 06:30:47 PM »
Quote
>>>
if this is the thousand year reign, is amillenialism saying this is the best God can do?
<<<

Not at all. Amillennialism can't say anything, as it is merely a title given to what God says plainly in His Holy word, "quoted word for word." Namely, that Christ has "already" has established His kingdom and He has already translated His servants into it, and that He has already established His government or rule upon His shoulders, and already brought the prophesied Peace, Safety, and Righteousness to the earth.

Isaiah 55:8-9
  • "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
  • For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Unfortunately, man doesn't understand that what he might think is right is not what God thinks is right, and what man may think is best is not what God thinks is best, and what man thinks should be the way things are to be understood is not the way God thinks the way should be understood. That is the dichotomy between the nature of God, and the nature of man. What's right in man's eyes is not what is right in God's eyes. That is why scripture must interpret scripture, not man.

Isaiah 55:8-9 illuminates the problem. It is not that God saving only a "Remnant" is the best that God can do, but that arrogant man, so lower than God, "thinks" that God is unrighteous for not doing more.

Ezekiel 18:29
  • "Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?"

The problem has always been in the heart of man in attempting to define God, not in the actual doctrines of God.


Quote
>>>
The Bible itself says that the devil is the leader of the world.
<<<

Indeed Satan is the prince of this world, because the world is in bondage to Him and is ruled by Him. HOWEVER, the believers are not ruled by this Prince, as Christ was manifest that He would destroy Satan's rule over them (Matthew 12:28-29), and spoil them from that Prince's kingdom, and give them a place in Christ's kingdom. It's all a matter of either having faith in what God says, or falling into the unbelief of plausible deniability. Sure, some may ask if this is "the best God can do," as if this is evidence of some sort of weakness, but I call it the glorious Power that man can only marvel at. It is the great strength of God in establishing a Peace for man that passes understanding, and a Mercy that was before unheard of.
The simple truth is, those who do not reign in Christ's kingdom now, have no King, and they have no Saviour ruling over them. It doesn't get much more honest and simpler than that. Now that is the Power of Christ's rule and that is not weakness but Strength. And it is enough for His people Israel.

Colossians 1:11-13
  • "Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
  • Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
  • Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

Therefore, whosoever has not been translated from the kingdom of the Prince or ruler of this world, and established in the marvelous Kingdom of Jesus christ, has no Saviour. Because they are obviously not saved. Satan's rule not put down for them. Not a fellow heir and servant of the commonwealth of Israel.


Quote
>>>
War, crime, poverty, disease, famine...this is part of the thousand year reign of Christ?
<<<

You err in assuming that the Kingdom of Christ has been a failure for the last 2000 years since Christ went to the cross, but will have success for a thousand years (rev. 20)? No, the truth is, the kingdom of God has been prospering, multiplying, and growing the last 2000 years, and now includes a great multitude which no man can number of all nations down throught time. Despite man's pessimistic outlook (because he looks on the outward appearance), the gospel has been a great success story. Even as Satan went about as a roaring lion, his gates of hell could not defeat the millennial advance of Christ's kingdom. Because the simple truth is, Satan was bound for the sake of the elect of the world, not for the sake of everyone in the world. That is a biblically untenable idea of man, not of God. The man of God understands his reign is in the Kingdom now, but the man of the world does not understand the kingdom is spiritual. Listen to the witness of the saints:

Revelation 1:9
  • "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

It is true, natural man doesn't understand how John could say he was a companion of saints in the kingdom of Christ. Indeed, some may retort, "is that the best God can do?" But John understood that though he was in prison, he was reigning with Christ. A king must have a Kingdom. Else all these testimonies and declarations of God are just nonsensical. And God is not the author of confusion, natural man is. Therefore, believers have been make Kings and Priests, they do reign now, and Christ already has a Kingdom, which they have been translated into. It's not a mystery, God plainly said it! Just as God "unambiguously" declared for "he who hath an ear to hear" and receive it, that he must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. For anyone to deny all these things, is to deny the very Word of God that declares them.

Sure, I would agree with you that in man's "thinking" and in man's "wisdom" he thinks that this present Kingdom is somehow deficient. But God's ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts. Nevertheless, one thing we can be sure of, He "makes sure" that the Children of God (Believers humble as a child before Him) have been bestowed with the Holy Spirit of truth, which opens up the ears and removes scales from the eyes. While at the same time, He hides these truths from the vain, arrogant and prideful who imagine that they know better than God what the Kingdom must be like.

Matthew 11:25
  • "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

Christ had told us again, and again, and again, and again what the Kingdom was like. man is just not listening (e.g: matthew 13:33, 13:44, 13:45, 13:47, 13:52, 20:1).

The Kingdom of heaven is Obviously on earth, as these parables (and many many more) so plainly declare.


Quote
>>>
I don't get it.
<<<

1st Corinthians 2:13-15
  • "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
  • But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
  • But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

Judge for yourself. War, crime, poverty, disease, famine, we always have with us. God promised to deliver us from warfare with God, from the criminal penalties of His law, from the poverty of unrighteousness, from the disease of sin, and from the famine of hearing the Word of God. Completely different from man's idea of war, lawlessness, poverty, disease and famine. Those looking for literal peace on earth missed it, as Christ brought it 2000 years ago. Indeed He fulfilled it all. We, only "by Grace of God," Get it.  So none of us can boast. We merely Thank God for His great Mercy in destroying Satan for us, that we could be set free from his bondage of sin. Yes, that was "THE BEST" He could do for us. And He did it.

Hebrews 2:14-15
  • "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
  • And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Again, God says he destroyed, or brought him down to idleness or inactivity in us, Satan. That those who were subject to bondage by him could be set free (John 8:36). What shall we retort? ..Gee God, is that the best you can do cause there is still ways and famine? Not if we have humility and respect unto God. But that is what is lacking in the Church today.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Silva

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2003, 08:55:10 PM »
Daniel1210,

Sinful man cannot reign over a perfect creation, this is why God cursed the ground so  that it matched fallen man. The curse will not be lifted until the New Heaven and the New Earth where there is no sin. This is why Jesus told believers that in this world we will have tribulation, but He has overcome the world.

Genesis 3:17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Romans 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Romans 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Revelation 22:3  And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Then and only then will the War, crime, poverty, disease, famine...be  gone for good.

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of
the day of God,

Tony S   

Robert Powell

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2003, 10:26:43 PM »
Amillenialism, I've read the articles, etc..but if this is the thousand year reign, is amillenialism saying this is the best God can do? The Bible itself says that the devil is the leader of the world.

You have to start reading the bible as a whole, not in bits and pieces without relationship to one another. We agree Satan is the prince of this world, but you must also read what God says happened to that prince by the cross and agree with that.

 Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

What you need to do is study the bible more carefully and find out what this judgement was that the prince of this world came under.

When you study the bible carefully, you will find that it's not a question of if the new covenant is the thousand years, but when that thousand years ends.

But from the sound of your post, I think you are doing a lot of arguing with the scriptures and not much hearing what all these passages say. Because it's not a question of if God says these things (as others have posted the verses) but of accepting what they say. You also appear to pick and choose which verses you accept. Because you quote that scripture says the Devil is leader of this world, but completely ignore where it says Christ is leader of his church. So obviously the world doesn't include everyone today. As Tony said, some have been set free and have a new leader. The Chosen or elect who have been called out of the kingdom of Satan.

 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:



George

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2003, 06:36:34 AM »
All you guys who spiritualize scripture, how do you handle the prophecy of Christ's kingdom made in Ezekiel chapter 37. Doesn't this show a literal fulfillment? You can't take everything spiritually.

Tra Millwood

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2003, 08:22:00 AM »
All you guys who spiritualize scripture, how do you handle the prophecy of Christ's kingdom made in Ezekiel chapter 37. Doesn't this show a literal fulfillment? You can't take everything spiritually.

A generalization. Be specific. What are you talking about? What prophecy?

Rebel

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2003, 10:01:47 AM »
Quote
You can't take everything spiritually.

     That's  true  but  as  for  the  prophecy  you're  referring  to,  well  .  .  .

George,  I  admit  the  prophecy  in  Ezekiel  37  does  look  literal  at  first  glance.  Dry  bones  becoming  human  beings,  reuniting  the  nation  of  Israel,  David  ruling  over  a  kingdom  on  a  hill,  etc.  But  let's  have  another  look  at  the  first  part:
         
1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley;  and, lo, they were very dry. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind,  prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
 
     Exactly  who  are  the  dry  bones?  If  you  take  this  literally,  they  would  be  the  Jews.  But  the  Jews  are  no  longer  God's  people  as  a  whole,  so  this  prophecy  is  not  for  them.  To  me  it  sounds  like  the  "dry  bones"  are  us.  We  were  dead  in  our  sins,  all  dried  up  like  a  pile  of  bones.  Then  God  put  flesh  on  us  and  the  Holy  Spirit  breathed  on  us  and  revived  us.  Look  at  these  verses:
     "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."  John  3:8.
     And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."  John  20:22.
     
     So  to  me  this  looks  like  a  picture  of  our  regeneration  when  God  made  us  into  "an  exceeding  great  army,"  warriors  to  bring  the  gospel  to  all  nations.

     Now  for  the  other  part,  the  prophecy  about  the  kingdom:

     15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

     Two  sticks,  two  sticks---  that's  a  hard  one.  Jews  and  Gentiles  brought  together  under  the  banner  of  Christ?  Not  too  sure.  Hmm.  
     Anyway,  here  it  looks  like  God  has  finally  established  His  kingdom  on  earth  and  they  all  dwell  in  the  mountains  of  Israel.  Jews?  No.  
     Today  this  prophecy  has  been  fulfilled.  We  live  in  God's  kingdom  even  now  where:  "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."  Galatians  3:28.
     Literal  mountains  are  not  in  view  here.  Who  is  the  Rock  that  we  run  to  for  shelter?  What  are  we  commanded  to  do  when  tribulation  comes?
     "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"  Matthew  13:14
     Not  literal  mountains,  obviously.  
     Verse  23  says,  "Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. "
     Hasn't  that  been  fulfilled  also?  Jesus'  blood  has  cleansed  us  from  our  sins.  We  are  no  longer  defiled  and  living  in  the  kingdom  of  sin,  the "dwellingplaces"  where  we  once  committed  idolatry.  We  live  in  a  new  kingdom  now.
     The  verses  that  can  really  make  you  think  this  is  a  literal  prophecy  are  the  ones  that  refer  to  David  as  being  the  king  over  this  kingdom.  But  is  it  really  David?  Jesus  was  of  the  lineage  of  David.  And  often  in  the  Psalms,  David  prophesies  of  Christ,  but  speaks  in  the  first  person  as  if  it  were  himself:  " I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.  My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.  For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.  I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.  They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."  Psalm  22:14-18.
     It  wasn't  really  himself  David  was  referring  to,  was  it?  Most  of  that  sounds  like  Jesus.  So  maybe  in  prophecies,  "David"  could  be  a  symbol  of  Jesus  Himself.  After  all,  who's  David  anyway?  Only  Christ  is  fit  to  rule  over  us.
     And  now,  the  covenant  of  peace  God  makes  with  His  people:  " Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore."
     This  verse  brings  us  back  to  the  original  question:  If  the  kingdom  on  earth  has  already  been  established,  where  is  the  peace  God  promised  to  bring  to  the  earth?
     The  others  have  already  explained  it  but  I will  repeat  it:  Jesus  is  that  Peace.  The  Gospel  is  that  Peace.  We  have  it  in  our  hands.  It's  not  exactly  a  picnic  living  down  here  on  earth,  but  who  cares?  We  have  the  peace  that  surpasses  all  understanding  and  this  beautiful  promise:  "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."  John  16:33.
     
     Finally,  here  is  the  last  verse:  "And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

     That  one  has  definitely  been  fulfilled.  Do  the  heathen  know  that  we  have  been  sanctified  by  the  Lord?  Yes,  and  they  hate  us  for  it.  But  I  don't  care  what  people  say,  I  don't  care  what  happens  in  the  future,  I'm  standing  on  the  promises  of  God.

     Grace  be  with  you  all,
                                           Rebel  <><
     
     
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Colleen

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2003, 10:17:35 AM »
George,  I  admit  the  prophecy  in  Ezekiel  37  does  look  literal  at  first  glance.  Dry  bones  becoming  human  beings,  reuniting  the  nation  of  Israel..

What? You think that dry bones becoming human beings sounds literal to you? WOW! When have you ever seen dry dead men's bones become live humans, or even heard of it ever happening in scripture? The only time I've ever seen that is in a Sci-Fi movie. No, it doesn't sound literal at all. I find it astounding that anyone would think that was to be a literal occurance.

Rebel

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2003, 10:40:04 AM »
Quote
What? You think that dry bones becoming human beings sounds literal to you? WOW! When have you ever seen dry dead men's bones become live humans, or even heard of it ever happening in scripture? The only time I've ever seen that is in a Sci-Fi movie. No, it doesn't sound literal at all. I find it astounding that anyone would think that was to be a literal occurance.

     Hey,  wait  a  minute!  I  was  referring  to  the  fact  that  some  people  think  that  the  dry  bones  becoming  people  is  the  final  resurrection  when  the  dead  receive  their  glorified  bodies  and  the  thousand  year  reign  begins.  That's  what  premillennialists  think,  not  me!  Did  you  read  the  rest  of  my  post,  Colleen?  I  actually  do  not,  and  get  this  right,  DO  NOT  think  that  the  prophecy  in  Ezekiel  is  literal.  Believe  it  or  not,  people  actually  do  take  that  prophecy  literally.  But  I  don't.
     Please  read  the  rest  of  my  post  and  I'm  sorry  if  I  misled  you.  You  need  to  read  everything  someone  says  before  jumping  to  conclusions.  You  look  pretty  silly  otherwise.   :)
     But  thanks  just  the  same.  You're  totally  right  about  that  scripture  not  being  literal.  You're  certainly  using  your  head  when  studying  the  Word  of  God.  Keep  it   up,  sister!   8)  

     Grace  be  with  you,
                                     Rebel  <><  
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Colleen

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2003, 11:31:10 AM »
I was merely disagreeing with you when you told George that "you admit that it sounds literal." I disagree!

 I don't think it sounds literal at all. My response has nothing to do with reading your whole post. I was disagreeing with one point of it. That the text when first looked at, sounds literal. I say no, it doesn't sound literal at all, as you well showed in the rest of your post. So why do you say that it sounds literal at first glance?

When I first read this chapter, my first impression was not to take it literally. That's why I have a hard time accepting your idea that it sounds literal. I think someone has to be predisposed to take it literally. In other words, if I was brought up in a premillennialist Church, yes, I would take it literally probably. But not because the text itself sounds literal, but because I would have been taught I should take it that way. Because I don't think anyone in their right mind reads a passage that says dry bones will get up and walk after flesh comes back upon them, and talks about sticks and such and automatically take it as literal.

Not to start an argument here, but I was just disagreeing with the one point that you agreed with George on. That it appears literal at first glance. I still think that's not true.  

Rebel

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2003, 12:02:23 PM »
     Colleen,
                  You  are  absolutely  correct.  A  person  must  be  predisposed  to  take  things  literally  if  they  are  going  to  take  this  passage  as  literal.  I  used  to  be  a  premillennialist  and  know  their  way  of  thinking.  They  would  be  inclined  to  take  the  chapter  literally  because  they  have  been  taught  to  do  so.  I  took  it  literally  too---  after  being  indoctrinated  by  premillennialists.  I  was  a  bit  distracted  and  had  forgotten  to  mention  that  in  my  post.  Thanks  for  bringing  that  up.
      Grace  be  with  you,
                                       Rebel  <><
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Daniel1210

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2003, 01:48:11 PM »
(This is an offshoot of the Amnillenialsim thread. Didn't want to make that one go down a path or people feel they were hi-jacking it. So here goes):

If this is indeed the thousand year reign...and we still have war, crime, poverty, famine and disease and all those things - and Satan is suppossed to be locked away for those thousand years...       ???

then,

How can anyone convince anyone that he is indeed locked away?  Satan is the author of confusion and evil...so since we have both in such quantities how can anyone think he is locked away?        ???


canuk

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2003, 02:04:03 PM »
"How can anyone convince anyone that he is indeed locked away?  Satan is the author of confusion and evil...so since we have both in such quantities how can anyone think he is locked away? "



We've been through all this before; Satan was bound from restricting the church...so God could build His church and expand His salvation plan.  Satan wasn't completely haltered...he still was given leeway and movement in the world to do what he does naturally...destroy and hold captive. However that's all changed now...now he's free again to kill and destroy completely. And he's doing that now everywhere, through delusion.


  2Thes:2:11:   And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:




Daniel1210

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2003, 07:15:03 PM »
canuk

Thanks, but this is one of the problems I have with amillenialsim, preterism, predestination, etc...

sounds like scripture twisting, produce the theology and then play with the scripture to make it sounds like it fits...
JMHO, butlocked away is locked away, he either is or isn't...

also, saying Satan wasn't completely haltered implies even Christ couldn't do it...

Rebel

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Re: Amillennialism and the Binding of Satan
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2003, 08:02:06 PM »
  Daniel1210,
     
Quote
butlocked away is locked away, he either is or isn't...


     Oh  brother,  here  we  go  again . . .  do  you  know  how  many  people  have  used  that  argument?

     Look  at  it  this  way:  if  you  had  a  dangerous  animal  like  an  attack  dog,  you  would  keep  him  behind  a  fence  and  on  a  chain,  right?  And  you  would  put  up  a  sign,  "Beware  of  dog."  That  dog  is  still  capable  of  doing  damage  but  he  is  restrained  by  the  chain  and  fence.  But  if  someone  climbs  over  the  fence  and  approaches  the  dog,  naturally  he's  going  to  tear  him  in  pieces.
     It's  the  same  way  with  the  devil.  He's  all  locked  up  so  that  the  gospel  can  go  out  unhindered.  But  if  people  are  stupid  enough  to  go  play  in  his  yard,  they  get  hurt.  So  the  devil  continues  to  do  damage  in  the  world  today  because  people  give  him  place  to  do  so.  Ya  don't  want  bad  fruit,  then  stay  outta  the  devil's  orchard!
     
Quote
also, saying Satan wasn't completely haltered implies even Christ couldn't do it...

     No,  Jesus  is  just  giving  Satan  enough  rope  to  hang  himself.   ;D  If  God  wanted  Satan  shut  down  completely,  He  easily  could  have  done  it.
     Grace  be  with  you,
                                     Rebel  <><
     
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

 


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