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Author Topic: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?  (Read 23270 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2004, 12:39:58 PM »
Thank you.

I like to go to church to share with "same-minded" christians, but I don't seem to find very many today. Most of they are too deep with "Miracles", "healings", "Free Will Salvation", "Work your salvation", etc. etc.  Unforuentely, my mother in law is one of them. No wondering my wife is worrying about her mother if I have us leaving that church. 

I have been under attack from some people saying that I should not be part of "internet church", or staying away from Christians because they took my belief as an insult to biblical principle of fellowship.  But the truth is I BELIEVE in fellowship, but only with people who share same belief, not just biblical prophecy.  I also believe witnessing truth to people who dont believe as I do and if they still dont, I leave them alone.  I have seen much worse churches that I visted but my wife's church is very "neutural" if you know what I mean?

I am planning to write a questionaires for pastor to see where he stands and if his position does not meet biblical principle, does it means that I can leave church just because of him at the expense of God's Elects still attending there?

Makes sense?

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2004, 12:46:17 PM »
Quote
  Justwanted to ask aquestion . My husband and i just came out of the churches .We can not find any that teach biblical truth . Does it mean we just sit home and worship God by ourselfs ? We can't find anyone who even believes the book of Revelation right, Its all earthly wisdom.

You and your husband CAN study and worship God yourself at home anytime.  You can even invite some people that you feel they need to be aware of. Maybe they dont like it and leave. let them be. 

The abomination of Desolation is anything that taught that does not lines up with biblical. It might be free will, lying signs and wonders, healings, speaking in tongues, homosexual, divorce and remarriage, etc. etc.  Chances are there are few people in your church who does believe the same way you do in regarding to biblical prophecy, but you never know which one unless you talk with them. 

While fellowship with believers is important, but you do not have to attend a church for it.  You can talk withbelievers anytime, anywhere and still study and worship God.  And put aside some time for studying with husband or with few friends at home. Nothing wrong with it.

Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Raybob

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2004, 04:52:31 AM »
Greetings in the name of the Lord.  I've been reading posts here and just joined to post myself.  Hi Craig. :)  I recall your post on Tom's board of your church situation.  I've been praying about what to do with mine.  Today (yesterday), the pastor was preaching on how God wants Christians to be successful and prosperous.  I got home and looked up "prosperus" and "profit", etc. but didn't see financial gain anywhere.  This was a straw that broke the camel's back.  The scripture I found told me to walk away.  I quickly wrote a letter of why I was going to leave.  To keep rumors from spreading, I hand delivered 3 copies to the three elders with the pastor present.  I know God timed it perfectly.  As I left the morning service, I heard the elders mention a meeting at 4pm.  I had finished my letter at quarter till 4, then drove to the church.  I'll try a few churches around here or at least meet with the pastors to see their teachings.  I'm prepared to start a home fellowship group too, if needed.  Here is what I handed to them as I went to the church to get my guitar to bring home.
*************************
Why I need to leave.
4/25/04
John’s message this morning was all about ‘prosperity’ and how God will let His people ‘profit’ with ‘prosperity’.  I searched the scriptures quoted this morning and found that “prosperity” spoke plainly of NOT financial gain but: 1) good, pleasant, agreeable 2) a good thing, benefit, welfare.  I’ve heard him before speak of praying for finances.  The bible tells me I must leave in 1 Tim. 6:5.

1Ti 6:5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that GAIN IS GODLINESS: from such WITHDRAW thyself.

This is not my only reason for leaving.  The biggest reason is John’s belief in the new (since 19th century) teaching of dispensationalism that claims that the church age began at Pentecost.  The bible clearly speaks of the church existing as far back as those with Moses in the wilderness. 

Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

John also teaches that the Holy Spirit and the church will be removed from this earth before Jesus returns.  He also teaches that there will be a literal period of 1000 years after the return of Christ before the wicked are judged. This clearly goes against what Jesus taught us:

Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


There are many other minor reasons I am called out of this group.  A big one is how Jesus told us NOT to pray standing in a house of worship.

Mat 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues..

Another is the stage being called an alter.  Altars are places to sacrifice animals, according to scripture.  There was one pulpit in the bible.  It was erected ‘outside’ the temple, outside the Watergate, not inside.  No one has to ‘go’ to the altar to approach God.  God can meet you right in your pew, not at the edge of the stage of the ‘house of God’.

I know that everyone has a different understanding of what scriptures say but this is the way I see it.

God bless U all,
Bob ‘Raybob’ Bowman

craig

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2004, 02:29:20 PM »
hi Raybob,
 nice to see you in this forum too,there is a lot of truth in your post.I'm suppose to be living in what some call the bible belt but some of us can't seem to find the right church to hear the truth either.Their are 2 other couples besides my wife and I who take turns meeting at each others houses and study the word of God and we're found out that we've gotten more out of this bible study and worrshiping God then when we were going to church.
I think I see the day coming when people are going to have to gather in homes to hear the true word of God and not some watered down sermon just to please everyone.
I guess it might be better if a person lived in a good size city where he has more churches to chose from but thats not the case where I live and I guess it's not case where your at either.
We started this a couple of weeks ago with these meetings and it has been a blessing for all of us,I just hope and pray not only that we keep doing this but that others my join us also.
         Craig

Candle

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2004, 08:22:37 AM »
    I so saddened because my husband and i cannot find a church to go to that teaches anything right(,biblically) . I have searched and searched ,but  Can't even find one within 100 miles of where we are . I am so :'( because my husband and I , love to fellowship and sing hymns and we miss this . Noone we know that that believes the truth. Sometimes you feel like your the only one on this planet. This message board is only way of communication with fellow christians.I thank God for this. Is there any one here that has these same circumstances? :'(    Candle


Psalms119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.John8:36 If the son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Erik Diamond

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2004, 02:52:44 PM »
Hello friends,

I am in awkard situation that I thought I need to check with you friends for advice. I have prayed to God about this:

When my wife and I moved to a small town where my wife grew up, we started looking for a church. My wife suggested that we visit her family's church which is Westylen Church. I have been visiting that church for about a year.  Here is the problem:

I don't personally like Pastor Steve's sermon. His belief is based on free will and often used modern bible translation such as CEV, NIV, Amified Bible. So I got uncomfortable and want to contiune looking for another church. One of Steve's associate pastors, Jack, was very helpful and worked hard to get me a sign language intepreter. It took him two months before we got one.  Now that he was diagnosis with colon cancer and he dead this morning.

I have already told my wife how I feel about Pastor Steve and where his church is going. She knows that I am not comfortable. But she also reminded me that her church have worked hard to get me a sign language interpeter and paid for it. It is hard to get one, espeically in small town.  And she warned that her family will think it is a disgrateful if I just pack up and leave, just because I don't feel comfortable and is an insult to the church.  Half of the church already know about Pastor Jack helping me getting an intepreter.

What should I do. Should I said, "I am sorry to hear Pastor Jack, but I do not agree with church doctrine so I need to leave", or I just be quiet and stay for a little season longer to appease my wife's concern of ugly situation that might comes up if I do something?

Your advice?

Erik Diamond  :(
 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

judykanova

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2004, 05:33:19 PM »
Hi Erik,

I'm sorry to hear about the death of your interpreter.  However, you know and understand the Word more than many a 'hearing' person who can physically 'hear' yet remains deaf.  Often the things we consider weaknesses are used in ways to draw us closer to the Lord and strengthen our Faith.  So the interpreter issue is really secondary to the real problem of being in a church where you don't approve of the pastor nor feel comfortable.

I consider you to be a very kind man, and you're naturally concerned with being seen in a negative light by those in this church as well as extended family members.   But I think you already know what you need to do -- do what you think is right in the sight of the Lord, for in the final analysis He's the only One to whom we are accountable. 

You might consider writing a letter to the pastor and elders, expressing both your gratitude as well as your concerns with the teachings, and letting them know your decision.  When the Lord closes a door... as it seems He's been doing even before the death of your interpreter, He opens another.  He's taken you this far, hasn't He?  And He won't abandon you now, as long as you keep your eyes on Him.   

I'm sure you've been praying about this and have delayed taking action because of the impact and opinions of others -- small towns and inlaws can be a real 'pain' can't they?  But often things are not a 'bad' at they seem.  Life moves on and there are likely others in that church who feel the same as you do, yet have also avoided taking action.

Sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your wife about what you want to do.   Learn from your mistakes and avoid situations where you are 'beholden' to another man for something as important as an interpreter.  Ask the Lord for one, and for like-minded people to fellowship with; not necessarily in a religious institution.  There may be free services nearby; have you checked with organizations and schools for the deaf.  Are you far from Denver or Boulder?

Psa 37:23-25
23  The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24  Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
25  I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Mat 5:11-12
11  Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12  Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Mat 19:29 
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or
wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and
shall inherit everlasting life.

2Ti 1:7-9
7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9  Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Pe 4:16-19 
16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19  Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Rom 8:26-28
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


I will pray with you about this -- namely that you be in the Will of the Lord.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Erik Diamond

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2004, 05:37:31 PM »
Thank you Judy.

Actually it was not my interpreter who dead. It was one of the associate pastor who helped find an interpreter for me. :-)

I will take you advice to talk with pastor and staff about it, but first I need to make sure my wife understand and support my move.

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Melanie

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2004, 11:15:31 AM »
    I so saddened because my husband and i cannot find a church to go to that teaches anything right(,biblically) . I have searched and searched ,but  Can't even find one within 100 miles of where we are . I am so :'( because my husband and I , love to fellowship and sing hymns and we miss this . Noone we know that that believes the truth. Sometimes you feel like your the only one on this planet. This message board is only way of communication with fellow christians.I thank God for this. Is there any one here that has these same circumstances? :'(    Candle

We're in the same boat it seems. There isn't a good church where I live for miles. Things have gotten so bad around here that the local church is now talking about accepting homosexuals as church members, even though they remain in the homosexual lifestyle. I can't begin to tell you how bad the churches are around here.


I also enjoy the Mountain Retreat and use it to fellowship with believers, because there are no Churches that I can in good conscience attend around here.


kohathe

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2004, 12:08:45 PM »
Hi, Melanie --

It is sad times for the churches that we live in today.  But there is still hope.  In Matthew 24:15-16, 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So when do we leave?  Christ tells us himself.  Matthew 24:20-21, But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We are not to flee during winter or in sabbath.  This is a time of great tribulation.  But there is hope yet.  Matthew 24:22, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Those days of the great tribulation will indeed be shortened, and it is at this time that we can safely flee when God has opened our eyes to see the abomination of desolation.  That's why in Matthew 24:29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: This is talking about the days after the great tribulation, the sun will be darkend, the moon, and the stars will fall... a picture of the true believers "falling" or coming out of the churches.  You can relate this to Daniel 11:33-35, And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall FALL, to TRY them, and to PURGE, and to make them WHITE, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END: because it is yet for a time appointed. Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

So take heed and hope in the Lord for his Words provide hope even through tribulation. 


Daniel

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2004, 12:16:03 PM »
Hello,
     John 21:15-17
15, So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon son of Jona, lovest thou me more than these?  He saith unto him, Yea Lord;  thou knowest that I love thee.  He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16, He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest thou me?  He saith unto him, Yea Lord;  thou knowest that I love thee.  He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17, He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me?  And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee.  Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
     The reason I left the corperate church was because I was no longer being fed.  At first I felt guilty for not worshiping God in a corperate chuch setting.  However, John 4:23-24, 23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:  for the father seeketh such to worship him.
     24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth., gave me comfort.
     I thank our Father for the mountain retreat, because now I believe I'am being fed.
                                                                        Dan
    

FaithFilly

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2004, 08:00:06 PM »
Quote
The reason I left the corperate church was because I was no longer being feed.  At first I felt guilty for not worshiping God in a corperate chuch setting.  However, John 4:23-24, 23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:  for the father seeketh such to worship him.

Dan,
As for being fed, being here at the mountain retreat is like finding a dinner table where the same family members have come for Thanksgiving Dinner.  I'm a newbie and am finding myself as (spiritually) refreshed as one must feel after being alone out in a desert for a long time.

A P.S. (To all here at the Mountain Retreat),

Please accept my apologies for posting messages (like this one here) in the wrong forum.  I just realized why they seem so odd...they belong in the Open Forum.  Maybe even this confession of error belongs there also? :-\

Carmel

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2004, 01:46:58 AM »
Erik,

 
Quote
The abomination of Desolation is anything that taught that does not lines up with biblical. It might be free will,

 I am sorry that you have not used your freewill but if you decide to answer this query then you must have started.

 Perhaps it was foreordained that you will or won't in which case whatever happens happens.

 Carmel.

 

Drew

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2004, 08:02:52 AM »
Matthew 24:15
  • "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Abomination in the Church is when the professing Christians begin serving other gods, other than the God of the Bible. This idolatry can come in many forms, but it all stems from them rejecting the "authority" of the Word of God.

Tony Warren, this is an absurd post. Where is it written that rejecting authority of the bible is the abomination of desolation. You are so into amillennial theology that you don't even know what abomination is. What the infidels did to the holy temple, that was abomination. What the Romans did left Jerusalem desolate.

 Lu 21:20
  "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

The armies of the Romans.


Quote
It's two diverse camps and philosophies that are in spiritual warfare against one another. When these of the unfaithful side take over the leadership of the Church, then it is time for the faithful child of God to leave.

Who says so? That's just your opinion. Isn't it better to stay and fight than to leave? Run away like a coward?


Quote
For example, one of the great abominations of our day is "Divorce and Remarriage". Divorce and remarriage was once taboo in most all Churches. Even though divorce was something written in some creeds, it was rarely used, and something only the scandalous, the Hollywood stars, or the fringe Churches had happen to any great degree.

Who said that Divorce and remarriage is abomination? You? Are you God? When two people cannot live together, they divorce. You think God wants us to remain in an abusive relationship, or one in which we are unhappy? Do you make up these rules?


Quote
So this is what the "true" Christian can expect. The lack of surrendering to the "authority" of the word of God is at epidemic proportions today. They are answering truth with, "..but my Pastor said I could," or "..but this author wrote," or "..the majority view is that," or "..my Church teaches." They have departed from the faith and have left their first love. And if your Church has fallen away or apostasized, then it is your obligation to come out of it.

Who says? I say it's our obligation to not abandon the church but to work to fix it. And maybe what the pastor says is right, and what the author says is right, and what the church teaches is right, and what you teach is wrong. Ever think of that?

Dana Pescator

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2004, 04:13:26 AM »
Quote
It's two diverse camps and philosophies that are in spiritual warfare against one another. When these of the unfaithful side take over the leadership of the Church, then it is time for the faithful child of God to leave.

Who says so? That's just your opinion. Isn't it better to stay and fight than to leave? Run away like a coward?


That's not his opinion. We are commanded to flee fornication, not try and reform the fornicators. We are commanded to have no agreement with idolatry, and not be tied together in groups with unbelievers, not to join with them in their unbelieving practices and idol worship. It's not Tony, but the bible that says we should not stay among the idolaters.

 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

You are not listening when God says "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers."

 


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