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Author Topic: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?  (Read 23269 times)

judykanova

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2003, 09:21:23 AM »
Quote
I am attending a church that is growing more and more wicked by the week. I fear that it has fallen into faithlessness and apostasy. ...
When I talk to others in my Church, they seem oblivious to it's wckedness and either give me a funny look, or tell me that I am too legalistic.

Chris,  just reading what you've said here, it appears that you do recognize apostasy when you see it.   In any case, the decision to leave a church is a very personal matter between you and the Lord -- based upon what you see.  It's a question you must answer for yourself.

Quoting the verse provided earlier by Erik...
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


Just as God 'winked at' or turned a blink eye in times past to the failings of the church,   many true believers also turned a blind eye to things that just didn't 'sit right'.  However,  it appears that the time has come when God is demanding repentence or judgment.  Likewise, God is opening the eyes of true believers such that things which were once tolerable, we now find intolerable, and we leave.

Acts 17:27-31
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.


God in His great mercy, forwarns us in His Word -- that there will be a falling away from faith in the church, and the church will be judged FIRST, prior to the Lord's return and the final judgment upon all the unsaved.

2 Thess 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Pray to the Lord for guidance and obedience, as will I.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Tony Warren

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2003, 03:05:22 PM »
>>>
My question regarding this is, when do you know that it's time to leave the Church that you are attending?
<<<

whoso readeth, let him understand:

Matthew 24:15
  • "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Abomination in the Church is when the professing Christians begin serving other gods, other than the God of the Bible. This idolatry can come in many forms, but it all stems from them rejecting the "authority" of the word of God. Thus they are "serving" a god that is not the God of the Bible. This apostasy is evidencing the condition of their "hearts." If they truly Love the Lord, then they will Keep (Guard from loss, or preserve) His commandments. They will guard the word of God from degradation and adulteration because it is their treasure, and thus the desire of their heart.

Luke 12:34
  • "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

The true Christians in the Church will (by the Spirit of God within them) have an earnest desire to do the will of God, while those merely professing to be Christian have a "heart" that lusts after their own desires. They will discern scripture not by the Spirit, but by whatever seems right in their own eyes.

Proverbs 16:2
  • "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."

It's two diverse camps and philosophies that are in spiritual warfare against one another. When these of the unfaithful side take over the leadership of the Church, then it is time for the faithful child of God to leave. For then they have "control" and have wrested authority from God. And what agreement has the kingdom of God with the Kingdom of Satan? ..None. Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers is not just a warning against marrying an unbeliever, it is a warning against all unholy yoking.

2nd Corinthians 6:14
  • "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

By their fruits you shall know them. Because while they will continue to profess Christ with their mouth and outwardly "appear" to be Christian, it's what comes from within that gives them away. For they will abandon the God of the Bible and teach doctrines of the "god" of their own heart, and of their own desires, and of their own minds, and of their own imaginations (1st Chronicles 28:9). And so it is of no value to them that they "SAY" they are worshiping God, or claim that they love God, because the "sign" of their denial of Him is in their love growing cold. They deny the authority of Christ by denying the "authority" of the Word of God.  Whether in word or in their deeds of following the doctrines of men, they are denying Him.

Matthew 15:8-11
  • " This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their HEART is far from me.
  • But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
  • And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
  • Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

That which comes out of the mouth of the unfaithful Christian is nullification of God's word by any means necessary.

The time when "you" should leave a Church is a "personal decision" between you and your God. It must be determined by the precepts of scriptures in conjunction with what "you see" going on in your particular Church. But it is only the humble in Spirit that "will See" or recognize evil in a Church, because the Devil is the great deceiver. And one of the first warning "signs" to look for is if the Church's authority (in deed as well as word)  is no longer the Word of God. If your Church's authority seems to be the experts, counsels, authors, men of renown, social climate, private or personal interpretations, signs and wonders, Church Creeds or traditions, what's acceptable in modern cultures, secular history, etc., then it is time to reconsider your position there.

When you see the lukewarm gospels, the deceivers, the false prophets, the deceitful teachers instructing in their own doctrines, forsaking the law of God while at the same time pronouncing Grace, then this is an abomination to God, and a "sign" that it's time to flee that Church and not return back. But let's be clear. Law is not the enemy of Grace, it is at one with Grace. Indeed, obedience to the law of God is the evidence of true Grace. Except those in leadership positions in the Church surrender to the "authority" of the Bible, there will follow confusion, lawlessness and the man of sin ultimately ruling. And these abominations will leave the Church desolate.


Quote
>>>
When I talk to others in my Church, they seem oblivious to it's wckedness and either give me a funny look, or tell me that I am too legalistic. Any help on this would be appreciated.
<<<

That is a good sign that the Church has fallen so far into wickedness, that they cannot even recognize that the law is not that which is shunned, but that which the true child of God loves. This is the old "Boiling Frog" syndrome. If you place a frog in cold water and slowly heat the pot, the frog will sit there and slowly cook. While if you drop a frog into hot water, he will attempt to jump out of the pot. In other words, it's where if you do something slow enough, the people will not even recognize what is taking place until it is too late.

For example, one of the great abominations of our day is "Divorce and Remarriage". Divorce and remarriage was once taboo in most all Churches. Even though divorce was something written in some creeds, it was rarely used, and something only the scandalous, the Hollywood stars, or the fringe Churches had happen to any great degree. But today, it's like a cancer in the Church infecting over half of all married people there. In most Churches today, Divorce and Remarriage is not even something which causes a ripple there, because they have grown so accustomed to this wickedness that it's "as if" it's now acceptable and really no big deal to God. This is how the Church progressively falls away from God and departs from the faith. Only those with an earnest desire to do the will of God will even"seriously"  take note of such things as against God's will.

Malachi 2:16
  • "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously."

God hates divorce, and "PLAINLY" declares that what God hath joined together, let no man put asunder. Yet the Churches routinely accept and even encourage divorce in many instances.

So you can consider it normal when you talk to others in your Church and they seem oblivious to the wickedness there, and they give you funny looks when you mention it. Because the faithful today are the "odd balls," the "legalists," the "fundamentalists", and the "Bible Thumpers". They aren't very much loved in this day and age where the Love of God has grown cold. Christ has told us before.

Luke 6:22
  • "Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake."
Luke 6:26
  • "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

So this is what the "true" Christian can expect. The lack of surrendering to the "authority" of the word of God is at epidemic proportions today. They are answering truth with, "..but my Pastor said I could," or "..but this author wrote," or "..the majority view is that," or "..my Church teaches." They have departed from the faith and have left their first love. And if your Church has fallen away or apostasized, then it is your obligation to come out of it. You will "see it's abomination" by the Spirit, by the Grace of God. And you will know that you cannot stay any longer among them. That is how you will know.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


iGreg

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2003, 03:52:35 AM »
I have not been to a church in a couple of years. As a fundamentalist Calvinist Reformed Christian there just is no church that I feel comfortable in. The last church I attended as a visitor was an independent Baptist church. As I recall, they seemed to be correct in about 70% of its doctrines & they used the good-ole King James Bible. But the Pastor would coninuously preach the need to "accept" Jesus. I asked him about this, and he understood the controversy. He also did not say he disagreed with my argument that it is Jesus who accepts us and not we who accept him. Basically, his bottom-line was that the congregation could grasp the concept that we need to accept Christ, and would not comprehend the need for Jesus to accept us. He alleged that he agreed in election and pre-destination, but he also muddied it up with God electing us following our acceptance of him. Though he denied it, I suggested that it sounds like he was presenting a works gospel.

There were other issues too, such as his preaching the notion of a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth after he returns. Which seems to be biblically incorrect.

The Pastor was very nice and understood my differences with them and welcomed me anyway. He wanted to baptise me into his church etc. However, I decided to quietly fade away from that church.

My sister brought me to a local Lutheran church. They often had women speak from the pulpit, not technically as pastors, but they did read from the Bible etc. The Communion was also given to non-members ( a biblically questionable practice). To top it off they did not use the King James, I think it was the NIV they used. Their children are given some of those truly poor modern simple English Bibles (I think it was the Living Bible). My sis and her husband do not quite understand why I don't go to church with them. I do not press my points hard, but simply say that churches today simply are not adhering strictly to the Bible (without singling out their church as the only problem, since it isn't).

There is now a good possibility that the Church Age has ended anyway, so, unless my study of this issue proves this incorrect, I guess my search for a new church has ended. Sad. I particularly miss the singing of hymns in the congregation :'(

Chris

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2003, 12:37:52 AM »

Chris,  just reading what you've said here, it appears that you do recognize apostasy when you see it.   In any case, the decision to leave a church is a very personal matter between you and the Lord -- based upon what you see.  It's a question you must answer for yourself.

judy


Thanks for the reply Judy. I'm not really sure if I recognize it or not. I know the church is bad, I know I should not attend a bad church, but I get a little fuzzy at how bad is too bad, or how much is too much?

Chris

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2003, 12:42:11 AM »
Abomination in the Church is when the professing Christians begin serving other gods, other than the God of the Bible. This idolatry can come in many forms, but it all stems from them rejecting the "authority" of the Word of God. Thus they are "serving" a god that is not the God of the Bible. This is evidencing where their "heart" is.

Thanks for the reply Tony. You guys have given me some very helpful information. But aren't all sins an abomination to God?

Daniel

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2004, 09:39:27 AM »
I'am presently attending a reformed church I found on this web site. I'am finding out that they are postmill.and
adhere to the teachings of David Chilton. I browsed through his book "Paradise Restored"and believe that
what his is saying is not accuarate. I believe it to be scripturely unsound.
What do I do? Do stay at this church and defend may amill. position or leave?
I'am becoming discouraged and sad that I can't find a church in my location that is amill. I find it difficult to worship with people who do not believe in what I believe.
I need some advise regarding this.   :'(

Robert Powell

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2004, 10:48:23 AM »
I believe it to be scripturely unsound.
What do I do? Do stay at this church and defend may amill. position or leave?

Most Christians would probably tell you that it really doesn't matter what eschatology you hold, and they will encourage you to continue in that church. But I would be extremely wary about staying in a Postmillennial church. First of all because their teachings about Christ's reign are false, and second because most usually don't practice real good sound hermeneutics anyway. I guess that's why they are Postmillennial in the first place, in believing that Christ has not already brought in righteousness.

[color=ff0000] Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy". [/color]

I realize we can't make a judgment by a small sample, but if you look at some of the messages posted here by Postmillennialists and their discussion tactics, they really don't seem to care about truth, and their arguments are generally pathetic as far as having a solid foundation. So, you have to ask yourself if this is the group and the type church that I want to be associated with? I wouldn't want to join any group that was afraid of the truth.

If you want to stay there that you might change some, you'll never change a church that is Postmillennial. Rarely you may change an individual's opinion, but never a church position. So if you stay, don't stay thinking you will convince them with scripture, because that's not going to happen.

Your experience is not unlike many of us. I also have had a miserable time finding a faithful church in my area, even one that is remotely faithful. So I assemble together at places like this, with like-minded believers who take God's word seriously and who know a lot of bible truth.

[color=ff0000] Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".[/color]

But you will have to make up your own mind. Pray for wisdom and do what you think is most biblical, not what someone tells you to do.

Just my opinion.

andreas

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2004, 11:49:24 PM »
 <<<My question regarding this is, when do you know that it's time to leave the Church that you are attending>>>

 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh." Matt.24:32

You will know when the time is right.You will not have to ask.It will come from within you,from the spirit of God.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Frank Mortimer

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2004, 08:37:19 AM »
You will know when the time is right.You will not have to ask.It will come from within you,from the spirit of God.
andreas. 8)

I agree. From the spirit of God, through the word of God you will just realize that you can no longer participate in such a church by comparing it's teachings with the bible. I like this scripture.

 John 16:13 & 14
 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you".


Candle

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2004, 10:11:20 AM »
   Justwanted to ask aquestion . My husband and i just came out of the churches .We can not find any that teach biblical truth . Does it mean we just sit home and worship God by ourselfs ? We can't find anyone who even believes the book of Revelation right, Its all earthly wisdom.
Psalms119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.John8:36 If the son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

craig

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2004, 11:00:00 AM »
hi candle,
I just brought up the same subject in Tom Riggle's group today.I just left my church because the church got a new preacher who believes in "premill" and so does the bible study teacher.
My wife and I have been trying to find a church that doesn't believe in "premill" but it's getting hard to do.
Tom Riggle told me to try an find a Reformed Baptist or a Presbyterian (but not liberal
ones like PresbyterianUSA) church in my area so that's what I'm going to try and do.
I hope you find the church your looking for too.
                   Craig

Candle

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2004, 06:40:26 AM »
  Now that we cannot find a church to go to. Where can we support the gospel  and who can we wittness to when these churches believe what they want to believe . The out side  unsaved in our area just don't want to listen. We live live in a very small village. :'(  We are not very well off people so we can't travel very far.
Psalms119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.John8:36 If the son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Erik Diamond

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2004, 08:23:24 AM »
Candle,

I also live in a small town in northern Colorado.  I was not able to find the church that is more faithful to Bible. But I have visited my wife's church for a while, but based on my observation, their sermons were based on 'free will' and rely heavily on modern bible translations, including  CEV ,etc. 

My wife understood about my position on the Great Tribulation, and we agreed pretty much on everything.  Sometime she thought I was too "picky" on finding church and that I used the Great Tribulation belief as an excuse NOT to go to any church - and suggested that I am being bit too judgementive.  Sound fimiliar?  ::)

I love my wife and understood her concern about whether I am over-reacted to problems within the church. She was impressed with "love" and "support" that the fellows at church gave us while knowing that pastor's sermon is not always biblically, you know? 

I am about to make a diffuiclt decision about that church becasue no matter how compassiate the church seems, or how 'godly' she appears.  I have to protect my wife and my family from FALSE TEACHINGs and other things that I considered as abomination of desolation or at least God allowed me to see.  And I do understand my wife's concern about relationship with church people for sake of fellowship or how her family might response to my position.  I have asked God for guidience and to help me how to explain to my wife that leaving a church or not able to find a church is NOT a bad thing as long as we could discern what is going on in the church per Matthew 24.

Your advice?

Erik Diamond
 


"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

craig

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2004, 09:32:01 AM »
Erik,I'm kind of in the same spot you are except my wife feels the same way I do,but we can't find the right church either.People tell us that we're to judgmental too,but I won't compromise God's word just to say I'm going to church.
I just got done e-mailing a preacher I found on Tony's mountain retreat link with a list of church's in my state and asked him about his church or any others in the city where his church is that believe the same way we do.
I live in southwest Mo. and about 30 miles from the nearest town and the preacher I wrote to pastor's in Springfield,Mo.which is about 70 miles one way from where we live but I'd drive it if we could find the right church.
We study the bible everyday but it would be nice to find a church where we could fellowship with other believer's who believe the same way we do but it seems like it's getting harder all the time.Well good luck Erik,I hope you find what your looking for too.
                         Craig

Candle

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Re: When Should A Christian Leave A Church?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2004, 09:46:46 AM »
Erik, I have truly only been saved for a very short time.But my husband has been saved longer.What we thought was the right church was the wrong church we were deceived  pentecostal church . By me just learning more about the lord , decernment kicked in this was not christ. I knew something was wrong so I prayed to god to for the answers and by accident one day I hit this website.GOD really calls you back to him . PRAISES TO GOD.So we came out of that church.Then we searched for other ones but could not find one.My husband same way as your wife. but i cannot go against god . I also pray that god will lead us somewhere.Miss being able to fellowship and worship with other believers :'(  GOD has a plan for all this ,but we don't know what his thoughts are for they are different than ours. your friend in christ Candle.
Psalms119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.John8:36 If the son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 


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