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Author Topic: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17  (Read 47634 times)

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2004, 08:16:04 AM »
>>>
So I would like to broaden the discussion to this most mysterious woman riding the beast in chapter 17. In this chapter the whore sits upon this beast, and she is said to be a mystery? Why, how, when?

Hope some of you can help unravel this for me.
<<<


Welcome to the Forum,

Bradley made some excellent points. I would only add that Babylon is a "title" bestowed upon her by God to properly indicate her character (a house of bondage and abominations). In other words, the unfaithful church has "spiritually" become as Babylon was. And she is a mystery or secret [musterion] because not many people realize or recognize that this fornicating woman called mystery Babylon is actually the unfaithful church. Thus it's a secret r mystery to them, and indeed to all except those whom Christ has given revelation to know this Spiritual truth. There are not many who will see that spiritually the church was merely represented by the holy city Jerusalem, and it represented the Lord's assembly. To most professing Christians, the visible church is an untouchable entity that the gates of Hell shall never prevail against. Just as the Jews thought the same thing about the nation of Israel as God's children, but both are mistaken (Romans 11:21). What they don't "see" is that there are two churches spoken of in scripture. The external covenanted church, and the indivisible (not invisible) eternal church that is comprised of all the true saints. One goes forth preaching at the gates of Hell that many might come forth, and that kingdom won't prevail over them as they build God's church with the people that are held in bondage there. The other is masquerading as the church and as the bride of Christ, but as as a harlot and will come under judgment and fall. This is just as the external Old Covenant congregation Israel did in Old Testament times. For the congregations today are no better, and God is no respecter of persons. Read Ezekiel chapter 16 for great insight into this principle. Also:

Mark 13:14
  • "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

This event is preceded by a great Apostasy in the church, even as it was before Christ came to Israel. The congregation of God is (spiritually speaking) Judaea, and the mountains that those who s"see" flee to are the protections of Spiritual Zion. The answer to "how," is simply that it happens by those in the congregation that are unfaithful become unequally yoked together with unbelievers. These are people in the church posing and professing to be believers. Likewise, the answer as to "why," is because those in the churches have compromised God's laws and fallen away from holding fast the word of God. This adulteration of God's word is so they might do their own will (man) instead of God's will. It's not a new phenomenon. The sinful man (or man of sin) sits to rule in God's place when he circumvents God's laws and rules by his own personal judgments.  Thus as judgment for this usurping of power, they will have famine and be given up to serve a false god in the Holy temple.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4
  • "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
  • Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The purpose of Revelation chapter 17 is that by the Spirit of God, the apostle John (and indeed all the elect) would show God's people the judgment of the great whore, the unfaithful church/woman that sits upon many waters. It's not a few churches here or there, it's a world wide apostasy. As by the Spirit of God John saw it, so by that same Spirit the elect will have this mystery/secret of the whore revealed to them. To the rest, Babylon will remain a mystery/secret, as they will be somewhat oblivious to the destruction going on in their churches. Because their conscience is seared or calloused over.

..without the Spirit, these things are just another cryptic and mysterious page of Revelation that is out of the grasp of their understanding.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2004, 08:27:35 AM »
>>>
I'm a little confused on this beast being around since the cross, or Christ wounding its head. I was always under the impression that the beast of Revelation 13 comes up in the end of days. Can anyone help me out with understanding why you say it's not?
<<<

You might go back and "carefully" look at the verse describing this beast. There you will see that the beast obviously has been around for a long, long time. Consider carefully what the word itself says:

Revelation 17:9-10
  • "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
  • And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

Here is the mind that hath wisdom. Christ is wisdom incarnate. In other words, here is the mind of Christ to interpret what the 7 mountains "represent." We cannot judge this by the world's wisdom or their standard of physical things,  but in the wisdom of Christ seeking spiritual truth and understanding. These mountains don't represent physical nations or physical kingdoms of this world, but spiritual rulers in high places. That is the mind and wisdom and that referenced in the message here. Here is the mind having wisdom, not understanding it by our own pea brains or minds, but using the mind of Christ--He is the "Living" word of God wherein His Spirit reveals truth to us.

1st Corinthians 2:15-16
  • "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man./i]
  • For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

We can't instruct Him (Romans 11:34) on what these things mean, He has to instruct us. And He does so through comparing Scripture with Scripture, through the Holy Spirit. How do we have the mind of Christ? Only by being transformed where our mind is changed to agree with His revealed will--which is in His Holy Word.

Romans 12:2
  • " And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

We prove the spirits just as the more noble Bereans did. Through searching out God's word. The mind of Christ is the only true mind of wisdom in interpretation, judgment and understanding. Do not interpretations belong to God? Indeed they do. Seek not worldly, natural, carnal man authored interpretations, seek the Spiritual in the mind and wisdom that is Christ. Worship Him in Spirit and truth, not in stones, bloodlines, houses, nations, meats and drinks.

Consider the exact words of this prophecy again very carefully. At the time of the writing of this book (about 2000 years ago), the beast was CLEARLY already in existence, and He had five horns that had already previously fallen. That means he had existed prior to that time of this writing, and that those 5 horns/power of his reign had already taken place and has already been broken. After the 5 had fallen, the Beast had two more kingdoms (rules of power) to get through. One of the two was present at the time of John's writing Revelation, and the other was said to be in the future. So that is "proof positive" that the beast is not simply a modern day phenomenon nor end time creation, and that it has CLEARLY existed since the days of Christ. I believe the beast is simply a symbol or representation of Satan's kingdom wherein natural man rules, and is ruled over by his king, Satan. Carnal man is the Beast, and the Dragon is his king that gives him his evil power or strength.

In fact, Scripture plainly says, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man"  (Revelation 13:18).  Please note though the transliteration in most Bibles might say "number of a man," that is not what the Scripture actually says. The original reads the number of man, and no legitimate Bible scholar will deny that since there is no article "a" in the original manuscripts. It actually reads, "Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of man." And of course, this agrees seamlessly with this imagery of the Beast being the kingdom of unsaved man. Just as those who are servants of God receive the seal, mark or name of God Spiritually written on them, those who are servants of Satan receive his mark. We don't read that we have the name of "a" god written upon us, and it shouldn't. It should be the same for it is the number of man, not of "a man." When we read we are the children of God, the text is the same Greek construction. There shouldn't be children of a God.

Or again, look to Revelation chapter 12.

Revelation 12:3
  • "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

This Dragon is Satan, and note we see the same attributes as the Beast. And again, we see Satan is represented with 7 heads and 10 horns exactly as the beast was. This episode of the Dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns in Revelation chapter 12 starts taking place before Christ (the man child) was even born and continues to after his death and resurrection. And so we can say unequivocally we understand that this beast with 7 heads and 10 horns represents the Kingdom of Satan as it exists throughout time and is not 7 individual physical kings on earth. i.e., it represents Satan and his carnal messengers who fight against Christ and His messengers, and that he and his horns and heads have been around since before the first advent of Christ. Our understanding of this has to be based on comparing God's words with God's words and not on man's fancies of individual earthly kingdoms. As Joseph rhetorically asked, "do not interpretations belong to God?" Indeed they do.


Quote
>>>
So how does he come out of the bottomless pit?
<<<

Refer back to the actual text again to get a better grasp on this. You might also look at verse 8 and consider circumspectly exactly what God is saying.

Revelation 17:8
  • "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

So again we see the imagery of this beast illustrated as existing before this text was written, and yet how it (at the time of that writing) "was not." This because this is after Christ had bound him in chains and cast that Dragon into the bottomless pit at the cross. As we read in Revelation 12 The Dragon was cast down. But here we read that at a future time this beast would ascend from out of the bottomless pit wherein he was cast. Clearly, it is sometime after this Revelation was written. And we read that ultimately the beast would go into perdition (Damnable Ruin). So how is that possible "IF" this was all simply about a latter-day phenomenon? From the text itself the beast had to exist before Christ was born as a man, which is approximately 2000 years ago, and then it was not (as Satan was cast into the bottomless pit at that time), and would again in the future ascend "out of" that bottomless pit. Which we can read about as Satan, the great Dragon ascending from the pit in Revelation chapter 20. That can only be possible because it represents the Kingdom/Rule of Satan in the world. A kingdom that had its head (authority) wounded with a death blow that Christ dealt it at the cross so that the iniquity he instigated against God's people was restrained to allow for the building of God's church from the nations. Remember, Satan (who gives this kingdom its power) was restrained and bound in the bottomless pit at the start of the Millennial reign of  Christ Kingdom. That's why it says the beast was and then it "was not!" It "was not" at the time of the writing because Satan was bound by Christ in the bottomless pit so that the nations could be evangelized (Revelation 20:2-3). Near the end of time, this beast kingdom will again be allowed to ascend out of this bottomless pit and as judgment bring desolation to the unfaithful church. This is when this kingdom will once again prosper and bring about a universal apostasy, as it did in Israel before Christ bound him and restrained his power. Selah!

So that is how the Beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. The bottomless pit Revelation 20 tells us is where satan was bound. As scripture prophesies, when He who restrains him is taken out of the way (literally midst or middle), and then will that wicked be revealed (2nd Thessalonians 2:7). Then will the beast come out when Satan is loosed. He hates the church and will do everything to bring the church down to ruin, seeking to destroy her and make her naked (spiritually her sin uncovered). It is symbolic imagery and language painting a spiritual picture. even as Adam and Eve sinned and saw their nakedness and were clothed by the skins of God's sacrifice. And here is the mind which hath wisdom (Revelation 17:9).

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2004, 08:39:50 AM »
>>>
The 10 kings signifies fullness of false prophets ruling in the church who will "give their power" to the beast for one hour. Together they rule the corporate church.  In other words, the false prophets' thought they are doing God's work in their church, but they actually doing the work of the beast instead without realized it. But the Elects could discern this.
<<<

Yes, the elect actually have the Spirit of God within them to discern what is of God and what is of the adversary. Those not elect merely claim they have the working of the Spirit, but in their works they deny they truly have it. Thus the elect will separate themselves from evil men, unfaithful doctrines and false churches, wherever they are. i.e., when they see lawlessness and abominations in their church (unlike those without the Spirit), they will flee from it and if possible, find another. They will do this until they can no longer find a faithful church.

The 10 kings symbolize the fullness of the "rule" of those who are marked of Satan as part of his kingdom (the beast) during this short season or period of time near the end of the world. The number 10 signifies the "fullness" of their rule, and the symbol of "Kings" illustrate that these do have rule in this kingdom.

So, the figure here is that those who are marked of the beast will have full rule for a "short period" of time (10), and will hate the whore or harlot church because that is what Satan is. The adversary of the church. And he deceives her by offering her the unlawful things that she desires under the guize of love and compassion.


Quote
>>>
If I am correct on this, then how can they "hate" the whore?
<<<

Those who are marked of Satan fall away from God to become natural "adversaries" of his people, thus they spiritually "hate" his church. Mostly without even knowing it because they are deceived where they seek to destroy Her thinking that they are doing God's work. Much like the pious religious leaders of Israel. They don't recognize their rebellion against God "as rebellion" but as doing God's work. In "symbolic" terms, the wicked are as men who are committing spiritual fornication with the unfaithful church (typed as an unfaithful woman or harlot). And the church, as the unfaithful woman wantonly allows this as she is going after other gospels (gods). Gods that allow her to do what she wants, rather than what God says. Thus, she is spiritually forsaking her betrothed, the Lord. It's the very same spiritual harlotry that God spoke of so often about Old Covenant Israel in her going after the heathen nations hat were around her, and forsaking her own God.

Hosea 4:12
  • "My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God."

It is a symbolic portrait, language to illustrate the unfaithfulness of God's people. God looks at them as whores. The people in bondage to Satan hate the church they fornicate with because they are of the world, and consequently at enmity with God. As they fornicate with the whore, they deceive the people in the church by corrupting doctrines. They speak great words against the most High while claiming they are of Him. They wear out the saints and seek to change times and laws. It is a spiritual battle within the church and the saints are driven out. So this is no great mystery to those God reveals it to, but a great mystery to the unfaithful.

1st John 3:13-14
  • "Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
  • We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."

The children of the beast hate the church because they hate that the church reveals their actions as sin. The same picture we see as they hate the two witnesses of Revelation 11 and kill them. They are killing the church who torments them with the truth of God's laws. If you declare/testify in the church that the doctrines are not of God, those teaching these doctrines will hate you and seek to silence you. They will be your adversary even while claiming that they love the saints and calling it compassion and grace. Because it is a fact that friendship with the world, is automatically conflict and hatred of God.

James 4:4
  • "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

This is spiritual fornication or adultery because they have left their God to come under the authority of another--the god of this world. In the real sense, they  cast out those who love God, keep His commandments. Those who hate God are those who are disobedient and unfaithful to His word, and are of the beast. It is written, no servant can serve two masters--for either he will hate the one, and love the other. So then, those who serve the beast, hate God, and thus His church that ironically welcomes them in. And that is why they seek to destroy it, as they do (and have done) today and of old.

An analogy would be as Israel became unequally yoked together with the unbelieving nations around them. In the real sense they had forsaken their God and were deceived to go after the gods of these unbelieving nations around them. God callwed them a harlot and brought judgment upon them. That's what the church, following in the footsteps of the congregation before them, have done. The congregation becomes so much like the world, that you would have a hard time telling the difference.


Quote
>>>
I assume that the false prophets wont literally say that they 'hate' their church,
<<<

Not likely. Did the Scribes and the Pharisees and the Priests tell Jesus that they hated God? No, they preached that they loved God, and that they were in fact the chosen children of God. ..and they actually believed that. But for all their confession and congregational work, for all their studies in Scripture, for all their traditions and teachings they followed, Christ plainly said that they were actually of their father the devil and didn't have the love of God in them. i.e., what they CLAIMED belied their actions. Everyone and their uncle can say that they are Christian, but it misrepresents their actions when they are adversaries of truth, law and righteousness. They have no love or fear of God in them.

John 5:39-42
  • "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
  • And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
  • I receive not honour from men.
  • But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you."

Those who search the scriptures, but not for truth, do not love God (and they are legion) no matter how much they mouth the words. When one hates God's words that they are lawless concerning them, one Hates God. Just as despite all their prayers and fasting to God, Jesus knew they did not have the Love of God in them. Likewise those today who are so quick to speak of being nice to heresies, and showing the love of God by ignoring blasphemies, and of compromising the word of God for the sake of niceties and getting along, they are lacking the evidence of true salvation. They have no evidence of the true love of God in them.

So no, false prophets won't literally say they hate the church, but they'll demonstrate their hatred by their actions. A tree is known by its fruits. Just as the Old Covenant Congregation of God demonstrated their hatred of Christ. As it is written:

Titus 1:16
  • "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

What came out of their mouths in their profession were ...just words!


Quote
>>>
More like a self-destruction?

Rev 17:17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
<<<

More like a self-delusion by the unfaithful in the church. God sent them this strong delusion as judgment. It is brought on by God removing His hand of "restraint" of iniquity in the church. By that He is giving them up, as it were. Allowing the lawless man (man of sin) to come to the fore.

2nd Thessalonians 2:11
  • "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

For what cause? Because they would not receive the love of truth! They are deluded so that nothing really seems that bad to these unfaithful Christians anymore because their conscience is seared. Divorce, remarriage, defaming the Sabbath, marrying unsaved people, sex before marriage, homosexuality, Roman Catholicism, worldly entertainment in the church, works gospels, it all becomes a  non-essential or no reason to really get bent out of shape. They are deluded because of their unfaithfulness. In symbolic terms, the great whore is burned with fire and she doesn't even know it. For as it is written, judgment must begin at the house of God.

You are correct, "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will in the strong delusion He has sent, that they might agree and give their kingdom unto the beast until the words of God shall be fulfilled." Fulfilling the word that this indeed would happen if they forsook His commandments. The unfaithful who have become marked of the beast, thus are in bed with the beast, until the fulness of time (10) of his rule there as the sinful man or man of sin, is fulfilled.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Bradley

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2004, 01:26:45 PM »
Quote from Tony Warren:

>>>The purpose of Revelation chapter 17 is that by the Spirit of God, the apostle John (and indeed all the elect) would show God's people the judgment of the great whore, the unfaithful church/woman that sits upon many waters. It's not a few churches here or there, it's a world wide apostasy. As by the Spirit of God John saw it, so by that same Spirit the elect will have this mystery/secret of the whore revealed to them. To the rest, Babylon will remain a mystery/secret, as they will be somewhat oblivious to the destruction going on in their churches. Because their conscience is seared or calloused over.

..without the Spirit, these things are just another cryptic and mysterious page of Revelation that is out of the grasp of their understanding.<<<



AMEN!!

Daniel 12:9-109   And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10   Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

We know all wisdom comes by the Holy Spirit.  There is another passage in Proverbs which can be applied to this very same subject regarding the whore of Revelation.

Proverbs 5:1-5
1   My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow thine ear to my understanding:
2   That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge.
3   For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4   But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
5   Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

I am constantly amazed at finding Truth of one subject throughout all of God's Word.  The judgement of God upon the church is through wormwood (false gospels) and it is described as a strange woman or an adulterous woman.  If we neglect the Holy Spirit (wisdom of God) we will end up following the strange woman to hell.

Bradley

Erik Diamond

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2004, 09:31:39 PM »
Quote
So consider this carefully. At the time of the writing of this book (about 2000 years ago), the beast was already in existence then, and He had five horns that were already fallen at that time. And He had two more to go.

Hey Tony, didn't you mean 5 "heads", not "horns"?

 ;)

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dwight

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2004, 05:30:17 AM »
Thanks people.

Rev. 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple
and scarlet colour, and decked with gold
and precious stones and pearls, having a
golden cup in her hand full of
abominations and filthiness of her
fornication:

What is her being decked out with gold, erc., meaning?

Erik Diamond

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2004, 05:59:55 AM »
I suggest that you try visit this website at

www.spiritualbiblestudies.co m

and read his "Babylon the Great" study.

Dan Webster also wrote some interesting studies on Plagues of Egypt.

Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Robert63

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2004, 08:00:39 AM »

Rev. 17:4

What is her being decked out with gold, erc., meaning?


 It could symbolize the sale for finnancial gain of the church, or the world view economics. As the European bak system or the RCC bank.

Dwight

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2004, 08:52:34 AM »

Rev. 17:4

What is her being decked out with gold, erc., meaning?


 It could symbolize the sale for finnancial gain of the church, or the world view economics. As the European bak system or the RCC bank.


I don't think that I go along with that interpretation. I might have a little while ago, but I have grown a lot in my understanding since reading some of the studies here on the subject. I don't have the riches all worked out, but I don't think it's that interpretation.
 

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2004, 11:30:37 AM »
>>>
Rev. 17:4
What is her being decked out with gold, erc., meaning?

It could symbolize the sale for finnancial gain of the church, or the world view economics. As the European bak system or the RCC bank.

I don't think that I go along with that interpretation...I don't have the riches all worked out, but I don't think it's that interpretation.
<<<

Dwight, first the woman decked with gold has nothing to do with world economics, or the financial gain of the church. The woman is outwardly "attractive," valuable and pleasing to the flesh.

Here's an excerpt from my old Revelation chapter 17 study. It's a little ragged but it may help.


Revelation 17:4
  • "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"

The woman on the beast is arrayed in purple and scarlet. Colors in scripture are not merely descriptive of lights of different wavelengths, they have a symbolic meaning that usually denotes some spiritual quality or virtue. For example the color white denotes purity or righteousness. The color green denotes something living, or that has life. And the colors blue, purple or scarlet are colors that denote great value or riches. These were the colors that a king or that royalty would wear, and which illustrated their wealth or great value. God Himself instituted the holy garments for Aaron the high Priest, and declared that they should be made with the colors blue, purple and scarlet. It was to signify the great value or holiness of the High Priest. As was the Ephod, the sacred vestment of fine linen worn by the ancient high priests of Israel. It had the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim hanging by golden chains and rings. The Priest was adorned in this fashion of great wealth to characterize the great preciousness of the priestly office. Wealth to man is pictured in the great riches of precious stones, fine linen, and gold, and God uses these symbol all throughout scripture to signify His preciousness more valuable than all these figures.

Exodus 28:6-10
  • "And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
  • It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together.
  • And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
  • And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:
  • Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth."

Exodus 39:5-7
  • "And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
  • And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
  • And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses."

Gold, Onyx stones, fine linen, and blue, purple and scarlet are all things which denote great wealth. The colors blue, purple and scarlet are the colors of riches and royalty. The breastplate of the Priest was of cunning work (interwoven), like the work of the ephod, also of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen (exodus 39:8 ). Again expensive work "symbolic" of the great value or preciousness of the Priests of God. These colors were a token to illustrate the great value God assigned to them. This is even as Christ showed this when He told the parable of the "rich" man and Lazarus:

Luke 16:19
  • "There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:"

Again, the color purple was to indicate clothing of great expense, which only a wealthy person could afford. It is the apparel of the Rich, as contrasted to that which the "poor" man Lazarus was wearing. Another example is in the book of John where God has inspired recorded that a purple robe was placed upon Christ to illustrate that He was a King.

John 19:2-3
  • "And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
  • And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands."

The color again to spiritually signify that Christ was the king of the Jews, He was royalty, He was the high Priest precious unto the Lord.

So likewise, the adornment of the whore in purple and scarlet in Revelation 17:4 is to symbolize that she has the "outward appearance" of the riches that the Church is symbolized by. The woman arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, is signifying that this woman is the representation of the Priestly office of the Church (Exodus 19:6; 1st Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10).

The woman being decked with Gold and precious stones are also to signify this great value or preciousness.

Job 28:16
  • "It cannot be valued with the gold of Ophir, with the precious onyx, or the sapphire."
Ezra 8:27
  • "Also twenty basons of gold, of a thousand drams; and two vessels of fine copper, precious as gold.""
Isaiah 13:12
  • "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir."

Gold and precious stones, just as the purple and scarlet, illustrate great value or preciousness. The Church is a pearl of great price unto the Lord. But here in Revelation chapter 17 she is being pictured as unfaithful. Thus we see that the golden cup in her hand is just an outward show [color=ff0000]hiding inward iniquity.[/color] It's the false or superficial appearance hiding all the abominations of this Church from those who have not eyes to see. This is "Mystery" Babylon. This is the mystery of the woman Revelation 17:7). It's like a false prophet coming with soothing words to the flesh, professing Christ outwardly. But her words are words that bring people into bondage or captivity to sin, rather than setting them free from it in Christ. Remember the beast was spoken of as "He that leadeth into captivity?" Satan comes as an angel (messenger) of light. And while outwardly "appearing" righteous, he brings people into captivity. And that's what the unfaithful Church does who rides this beast. Even as the great city Babylon of old prefigured this house of captivity.

Jeremiah 51:7
  • "Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad."

Because the Church is "spiritually" as Babylon that deceives, though she looks good superficially, she is not serving God, but her own lusts.

As the city of Babylon deceived the nations and brought Israel into captivity in those dark days, so this woman deceives the world with her unfaithfulness, and brings darkness by her spiritual seduction. This unfaithful Church is enticing the kings of the earth (making the unsaved her rulers) by her spiritual fornication. Going after the world. How does a church entice? The very same way that a whore or a harlot woman would. By offering things attractive to the flesh to the unfaithful or lawless. By saying things like Christians can Gamble, they can Divorce, they can Remarry, they can marry Unbelievers, they accept Homosexuality as God given, they can work on the Sabbath, they can commune with works gospels, they can accept other religions, they don't have to preach on error, etc., etc. This is the golden appearance of the woman upon the beast!

By forsaking her God for the kings of the earth enticing them with worldly words of happiness and temporal pleasures of disobedience, she seems to prosper. The unfaithful church may appear on the outside as royalty, but look inside the golden cup that God says she is offering. What you will see is the abominations and filth of her lawlessness. The golden cup in her hand (like her apparel and being arrayed with gold and precious stones) looks precious and beautiful so to entice. But within that nice cup is abominable things and the filth of her adultery. For she is the false Prophet, the false Christ who comes with horns looking like a lamb, but speaking as a dragon. Looking like a Christ, but her words are what gives her away. They are words of nullification and adultery. She has adulterated God's Word and it is the abominations that will leave her desolate.

So the overview of verse four is that the unfaithful Church is compromising with the world, and this is "spiritual fornication" unto God. She has the appearance of the riches and holiness of God, but what she is offering in the cup of enticement, is abomination unto God. The people are so busy looking on the outward appearance of the Church and the cup that they don't recognize the abominations within. God is revealing this woman for her immorality and deceiving the world with outward show and external appearance of piety and righteousness. But God reveals her true nature. Just as Christ saw the Old Testament congregation, which on the outside had the appearance of Godliness, but within were full of iniquity.

Matthew 23:27-28
  • "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
  • Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.""

Again, "There is nothing New under the Sun."

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Dwight

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2004, 06:36:26 AM »
Thanks very much. Yes that did help a lot.

 Needing to know how or why the woman is drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2004, 09:06:09 AM »
>>>
Needing to know how or why the woman is drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
<<<

  • "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

To be drunken is allegorically speaking of those whose awareness is impaired so that they are without sober spiritual perception. People who are deceived are those who are spiritually drunken. In this manner, it is this woman that causes professing Christians to act without sound judgment, having their faculties impaired by reason of the spirit of Satan that empowers her. These professing Christians are seduced so that by her seduction they are made spiritually drunken whereby they forsake sober or sound teachings for hose catering to the lusts of the flesh. Not unlike God compares the fool (those acting unwisely or imprudently) in Isaiah to being drunken.

Isaiah 19:13-14
  • "The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.
  • The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit."

It is illustrative of those without bearing who are spiritually intoxicated by her false teaching so that they are under Satanic influence. Just as someone would be under the influence of alcohol so that they begin to make poor decisions and to act foolishly. This is the analogy being drawn here. The people stagger to and fro as they have unsure footing and are thus unable to soberly find the way. Spiritually speaking, as drunkenness their eyes are darkened, their paths blurred, and their mind is unsound.

Job 12:24-25
  • "He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
  • They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.

Again, the portrait is of a confused and unsound mind. The power or capacity of him to think soberly is gone causing a altering of his behavior in a negative fashion. In a phrase, spiritual drunkenness.

You might also do a study of how Christ said Jerusalem was drunk with the blood of the prophets. Because Jerusalem is a synonym for the church and their drunkenness was symbolic of their error and lack of sober judgment to discern truth.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Dwight

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2004, 07:10:49 AM »
I have hit a snag again in verse 17.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

How do the ten horns burn and make her desolate, as the 10 horns represent the power of the beast? Thanks much as your help is invaluable.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2004, 09:53:37 AM »
Tony Warren wrote on March 20, 2004 on the following quote:

Quote
The Beast is not only in the end. The beast with seven heads and ten horns is a "figure" illustrating Satan's kingdom throughout time. Seven is the number of completion, for in his final rule he is defeated. Heads are symbolic of his authority, and the crowns on his heads are symbolic of his rules, the horns symbolic of his power. This can be easily proven, as if you note, in revelation chapter 17 God clearly tells us that the seven heads were Kingdoms (mountains) where 7 kings rule, and at the time of the writing of the book of Revelation we read that 5 of the 7 were already fallen. So by scripture we see "CLEARLY" that these heads on this beast illustrate an ongoing reign of Satan through the beast. Thus we can better understand the mark of the beast in man (a signification of bondage under rule of Satan). The symbolism of this beast (Rev. 17) is a figure illustrating this kingdom's start, through to its completion (1-7). When the final Kingdom ruled by Satan comes, that will be the end. That's why Revelation lists an 8th, but clearly declares that it is "of the seven."

Tony, if 5 heads were already fallen at the Cross, then why did Revelation 13 stated that 'one' of the heads were fatal wounded. Why not five heads?

Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And whether the heads (authority) represents 'epoch' of Satan's rule throughout mankind? Are we biblically to divide time based on beast's heads?

Erik Diamond


"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2004, 03:04:59 AM »
>>>
I have hit a snag again in verse 17.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

How do the ten horns burn and make her desolate, as the 10 horns represent the power of the beast? Thanks much as your help is invaluable.
<<<

The number 10 signifies the "fullness" and horns signify "power," and thus it is illustrating the fullness of time these kings of the earth have power to rule in bringing the church to desolation/ruin. These are the unfaithful ones who will make her spiritually naked (symbolizing her being without the clothing of the righteousness of Christ). In other words, they no longer will be bringing the gospel of salvation as she is naked in trespass and sin. These kings are being ruled over by the "destroyer" Satan, will devastate this congregation. This is ultimately the judgment of God (Revelation 9:7) as they shall eat her flesh (they are wolves in sheep's clothing). Because they are the unsaved messengers of Satan, but coming as ministers of righteousness. And they are in fact "sent" by God as punishment upon the unfaithful or fornicating church. Their destiny is to make her desolate "because" of the abominations taking place inside her. Just as God did to His congregation Jerusalem in the Old Testament when she is singled out as playing the harlot.

Isaiah 1:7-8
  • "Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
  • And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city."

Just as God sent strangers (unbelievers) to make Israel desolate, so God will send unbelievers to make the New Testament Israel congregation desolate because of her spiritual harlotry. These kings from the beast are actually wolves and have a mind to make war with the Lamb. As a result they desolate the sheep because of their unfaithfulness. This is the destiny of the church that commits spiritual fornication, as a harlot. To be destroyed by those false messengers whom Satan hath gathered from the four quarters of the earth to do battle with the word. And God makes it clear that it is actually "HE" who has allowed this because of her harlotry.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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