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Author Topic: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17  (Read 44068 times)

andreas

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Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« on: June 14, 2003, 03:01:29 AM »
Revelation 17:11

"And the beast that was,and is not,even he is an eighth and is of the seven,and he goes to his destruction"
Can anyone please help with this?The beast that was,and is not,and goes to his destruction refers to the old serpent.My problem is with;"even he is an eighth and is of the seven."
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2003, 01:02:41 PM »
Quote
>>>
"And the beast that was,and is not,even he is an eighth and is of the seven,and he goes to his destruction"
Can anyone please help with this?The beast that was,and is not,and goes to his destruction refers to the old serpent.My problem is with;"even he is an eighth and is of the seven."
andreas.
<<<

Well I guess I'll throw in my opinion of the interpretation of this.

Revelation 17:8
  • " The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

A little background for anyone interested. The beasts of Revelation 13 and 17 are a figure or representation of the body of Satan, the spiritual kingdom of "the god of this world." e.g., when it says locusts are loosed from the bottomless pit, that is a figure signifying those who are of Satan coming forth through his spirit. Not literal or simi-literal or physical locusts out of hell with Satan, but people of whom Satan gives power. People with the antichrist spirit coming forth through power of Satan.

They are spiritually speaking his body, just as those of the Spirit of Christ are his body. The beast represents his kingdom, his children, his ministers. Satan personified in his kingdom. The Dragon (Satan himself) gives the beast its power (Revelation 13:4) signifying Satan gives them their strength. Just as the four beasts (more literally, four living creatures) are a figure or representation of the body of Christ (Revelation 4:6), the spiritual Kingdom of the God of heaven. The Lamb (God Himself) gives it its power. We see in these cryptic images the figures of the true Christ Kingdom versus the figure of the anti or substitute or pseudo Christ Kingdom. Satan the adversary, is a kingdom of darkness masquerading as a kingdom of light, and it has been going forth killing the prophets of God.

Psalms 74:9-10
  • "We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.
  • O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?"

How long indeed! There is an appointed time that the Lord will avenge the prophets upon this beast. The beast of Revelation 17 is Satan's carnal kingdom on the earth, which is worldly. It is a body aligned with the "god of this world," in opposition to the heavenly body aligned with God. It represents the Antichrist and his dominion and reign, or principality. Thus the mark of the beast is a spiritual sign (not physical) that those receiving it are slaves or servants of this ruler, part of his body. In other words, the mark signifies they belong to him. As slaves were once marked in this country, so those of the beast are "spiritually marked" as possessions and servants of Satan. Even as believers are spiritually marked as possessions and servants of God.

The language of Revelation 17 means, the beast "was" because Satan ruled and prospered when Christ came to earth the first time (Matthew 11:12). The language yet it "is not" is because by Christ's death and resurrection, Christ defeated Satan, breaking his rule and spoiled His kingdom (Luke 10:18). All through the New Testament Church period Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer.  He's been building the Kingdom of God with those seized from behind Satan's defenses. The gates of Hell could not prevail against the Christ who went forth conquering and to conquer these last 2000 years. hen we read in Revelation 17 that in all this, yet this beast "is" (at the time of John's writing). This was because even though Christ bound Satan in chains of darkness that He would build His church, Satan still was able to work iniquity in the world. ergo, the binding was not all inclusive. A truth so plainly illustrated in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2.

2nd Thessalonians 2:6-7
  • "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
  • For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That old English word "letteth" means restrains. Thus though this beast's (kingdom) was clearly defeated and was being spoiled by the conqueror whose name was the Word of God, there was the mystery of Satan's iniquity still at work in the world. Even though the word declares it was still restrained or withheld (held back) until a time when He that restrained it would be taken out of the midst.  He was then a present day world-power (not to be confused with political power), though not over the elect, so that many were spoiled or seized from the nations and added to the ranks of kingdom of Christ daily. this was a mystery, but non-the-less God's truth.

Revelation 17:10
  • "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

Here we see that the symbolism of the seven heads (symbolizing authority or leaders) which are mountains. Mountains symbolize kingdoms. Thus we see proven by the scriptures that these 7 were the completeness of Satan's "kingdoms throughout time." Note the progression of the seven. God declares plainly that at this time of John's writing, five of these rules had already fallen, one was ongoing at that time, and one was yet to come. That explicitly tells us that this beast was a kingdom in the 'past,' had lost some of it's reign or rule, and yet was still there as a kingdom when this book of revelation was written (God declared one is), and would rise up again to come and rule in the 'future' (one was yet to come). i.e., only Satan ruling in his Kingdom on this earth qualifies ans such a kingdom to span the 7, or the completeness of time..

Unless we're going to take these kingdoms to refer literally to political nations ruling (as some do) which would be both untenable and contradictory to other passages.

The head is a symbol of his "authority." Thus the number 7 signifies completeness, so the 7 heads represent Satan's "authority" or rule in this "KINGDOM" throughout the completeness of time. At the time of John's writing, 5 were fallen, 1 was (because Satan was allowed to go about as a roaring lion even then), and 1 rule was yet to come. This 7th which was to come, and had to continue a short space, is the final reign of the Beast kingdom. It is when Satan is loosed for a short period near Christ's second advent. the little horn or the little power (Horns=power) he rules near the end of the world.

Which brings us to the 8th. You might ask, how can there be an 8th when 7 represents the completeness?  God tells us how. The beast that was, and is not, is the eighth ruler, and yet God is careful to tell us that he is of the seven (the totality of the Kingdom). He comes out of this 7 kingdom reign (7, because it is the time and body from which he springs). This is his kingdom, Satan personified. This language places Him within the completeness of the Kingdom reign, rather than outside of it. But the number 8 signifies a time like no other, universally. This new "rest," where man should pray his flight be not in this time period. It's diverse or different from the previous reigns because all have been sealed who are to be sealed. This 8th is diverse, and yet it is part of the 7. Because it is the time or hour of darkness wherein no man can work (there is rest) the works of salvation. This is the eighth, the final rule of Satan in the desolation which his abominations have brought.

This 8th ruler Satan, of, or from the 7, and all his ministers ultimately are put down by Christ and go into perdition, as does the man of sin or lawlessness, as does Judas, as does all those who worship the beast and who turn against Christ to man-made images of god. The fire from heaven will destroy them.

Revelation 17:7
  • "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

The Mystery is that it is the Kingdom of Satan that the fornicating unfaithful  Church is seated in. Selah!

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

DBee

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2003, 03:41:45 PM »
Revelation 17: Mystery Babylon is Who?

Chapter 17 opens with one of the seven angels of the seven bowls speaking with John, a whole different picture,  "Come hither, I will show thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters;...3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness:"  The time frame as we will see, from its' content, moves to a wide time frame prior to the rapture.  We will be shown Mystery Babylon, the harlot city, and the red satanic beast that carries her, including each one's fate.

Mystery Babylon as a harlot: "2with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and they that dwell in the earth were made drunken with the wine of her fornication."  Harlots sell themselves for what they see as immediate personal gain, they are covetous.  She is at this time over many waters or people.  The leaders of the nations of the world at this time come to her, drawn and addicted to her visible attractive wealth.  And are under her invisible domination.

Verse 3 the harlot is more clearly viewed by John in the wilderness, another dimension.  She is seated on a red satanic beast, this is a form of Satan.  She has great wealth and in her hand a fullness of abominations and wicked dealings with the nations, and on her forehead a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  She is drunken with the blood of saints and martyrs. This is accomplished through her secret parallel government.  The martyrs in Russia and China, the communistic rise to power, the many killing in Africa to name the ones that quickly come to mind all orchestrated from the conspiracy in Babylon financed with her acquired great wealth.

To John it was, how can this be?  The angel answers, "I will tell you."   She is carried by Satan,   "8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition."  This sequence is very important.  Satan "was," after his fall; next, "is not" which could be a reference to the restraint in 2Thess 2:6-8, "and is about to come up out of the abyss" as also we read in Rev 20:7 "Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war:" and the Gog war may be the war that destroys Mystery Babylon.  And lastly he goeth into perdition.

The seven heads are seven mountains (the seven continents or the whole world, back in verse 1 she sits on many waters or people).  10and they (the mountains) are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. 11And "the beast" that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goeth into perdition (this one is Antichrist). 12And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with "the beast," for one hour. 13These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto "the beast."  (Then at Armageddon) 14These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful, (the saints).

15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.  ---Now here we see that the waters are people, not Rome, not the Catholics (bad conclusion from the 7 hills of Rome). The Romanish church makes up the false prophet, or world church who is very useful to and serves "the beast," and is not destroyed until the end of chapter 19, Armageddon.

16And the ten horns which thou sawest, and the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her utterly with fire.  These 10 kings may be what has been referred to lately as the nameless nine, later expanded to the ten referred to here.

This is the high point of this whole chapter. The ten kings under and with Antichrist now turn on the Harlot, why?  They shall make Babylon desolate, naked (completely looted), eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.  Because:

17For God did put in their hearts to do his mind, and to come to one mind, and to give their kingdom (world power) unto "the beast," until the words of God should be accomplished.

Because Babylon has rejected God, this is obvious, and to give their kingdom unto the beast as predetermined.  The entrance of Antichrist is described in Dan 11:21 And in his place shall stand up a contemptible person (Antichrist), to whom they had not given the honor of the kingdom: but he shall come in time of security, and shall obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22And the overwhelming forces shall be overwhelmed from before him, and shall be broken...

Antichrist shall come to power "in a time of security, obtain it by flatteries, and the overwhelming forces shall be overwhelmed from before him, and shall be broken."  Here is what I see.  The overwhelming forces are the Gog-Magog war, it starts with Russia going up (north) to unwalled cities with rivers and much cattle.  From other prophecies China and Russia have agreed on this attack.  China is to receive the land of Babylon but only after it is wiped clean.  As it starts happening they disagree and China pushes Russia back to Paris.  Here they talk it over, since China now has what it wants, Russia can be the leader.  But first they all agree to attack Israel.  In this attack God intervenes by what appears to be cataclysmic upheavals and fire, all the attackers are killed almost, five out of every six, that's 83% dead. The overwhelming forces are overwhelmed. Now read Dan 11:21-22 again.  No fighting men left to make much of an army.  The world is in a time of security.  Con man AC is not in the public eye for the first 3 Ż  years.  The temple is rebuilt, as all Israel accept Christ.  The "covenant in the blood of Jesus is confirmed with the many."

It is also prophesied that: the true Christians in Babylon, many will be protected supernaturally by the angels of God.  Many many of the ungodly will die.

Back to the harlot: 18 And the woman whom thou sawest is the great city (NYC), which reigneth over the kings of the earth.   Next is chapter 18, a look at Babylon's fall.

Revelation 18

 America is Fallen  

Chapter 18 moves ahead to picture the actual fall of Babylon.  An angel with great authority who lightens the earth with his glory, announces Babylon is fallen.  Jumping to verse 20, rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye saints, and ye apostles, and ye prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her.

Because there are some that identify Mystery Babylon as the Catholic Church, Iran-Iraq, or  a cultish religion, please look again at the world economic power of this single city-state.  From her influential economic power she has corrupted all the nations of her day through their leaders.  This was accomplished with money.  And her day is at the end times.

Babylon has become desolate, now a home for demons, unclean spirits, and unclean birds.  By her wickedness all nations are fallen, by her, the leaders of the nations were sucked into her wrong doing.

Jer 51:9 "We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country; for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies."  --Next another voice from heaven warns.  People of God, "withdraw from the harlot, have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: 5for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

This same voice proscribes the judgments on her, from what she has done give her double.  For herself glorification and wantonness (wanton: is marked by arrogant recklessness of justice, of the feelings of others, having no just provocation; willfully malicious), give her torment and mourning for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall in no wise see mourning. 8Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judged her.

The leaders of the other nations of the earth who joined with her, shall weep and wail over her, when they see her burning, saying, "for in one hour is thy judgment come."  And the business industry weeps and morns, no more big business, "17for in an hour so great riches is made desolate."  Her wealth is listed that will be no more, slaves and the souls of men among the list.  And the shipping industry cried out  as they looked upon the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like the great city?  19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, wherein all that had their ships in the sea were made rich by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Next a very strong angel casts as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.  Never will normal life again be in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived. 24And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth.

Note that the narrative continues into chapter 19 including verse 4. We hear a great multitude in heaven praising God 2for true and righteous are his judgments; for he hath judged the great harlot, that corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Dutch

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2003, 06:10:15 PM »
The great harlot is that great city Jerusalem, the representative of the Church. She sits on the beast because she has forsaken the kingdom of God for the kingdom of Satan.

It is the Church who has reigned over the kings of the earth since the new testament period.

The 10 kings who hate her and burn her with fire is the latter day rulers of the Church who are of the kingdom of satan and have been given power to destroy her of God.

See the Revelation chapter 17 study for details and scripture passages.

Rebel

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2003, 07:25:18 PM »
DBee,  
     We've  been  through  this  before.  Mystery  Babylon  is  not,  I  repeat,  NOT  the  USA  or  NYC.  Please  don't  start  that  again.  Andreas  did  not  ask  who  Mystery  Babylon  is.  He  asked  about  a  beast.  
     Don't  think  I  don't  recognize  the  article  you've  posted.  Andreas,  remember  when  DBee used  this  exact  same  article  not  so  long  ago?  All  that  nonsense  about  China  and  Russia  and  that.  Come  on!  Just  where  DO   you  get  your  prophecy  "knowledge,"  DBee?  It  sounds  a  bit  like  something  Tim  LaDah  cooked  up  or  maybe  Pat  Robertson.
     Babylon  is  the  unfaithful  church,  as  Dutch  has  pointed  out.  America  is  America.  Even  if  she  does  fall,  Bible  prophecy  has  nothing  to  do  with  literal  nations  and  chunks  of  land!!
I'm  repeating  myself  I  know,  but  so  are  you.  You're  comparing  scripture  with  world  events  instead  of  comparing  scripture  with  scripture.  Either  that  or  you're  taking  someone  else's  word  for  it.  Now  be  a  good  Christian  and  just  stick  to  the  scriptures.
     By  the  way,  where  do  you  live?  The  United  States?  If  you  do,    Ooh,  naughty  naughty,  it's  high  time  for  you  to  "flee"  from  Babylon  or  you  might  have  to  drink  from  her  cup  (and  it's  Diet  Coke,  too,  or  so  Jerry  Falwell  tells  me!   ::))  
     Grace  be  with  you,
                                      Rebel  <><
     P.S:  If  you're  wondering  why  I  have  not  provided  any  scripture,  it's  because  I  already  have  and  I  don't  want  to  do  it  all  over  again.  You'll  find  the  rest  of  my  opinion  under  the  topic  "Babylon."  
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

andreas

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2003, 07:28:01 PM »
Thanks.I suppose one can say that the eighth is the concentration of all that is evil.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2004, 06:02:01 AM »
Hi Everyone,
 I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned from going through all these old posts and reading these studies. I am often amazed at how much you all understand about the book of Revelation compared to most people that I talk to.

I think you have addressed the horns on the beast real well, but I'm unclear about when this beast is comes up, how, and how do the 10 kings relate to this beast? Any help?

David Knoles

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2004, 11:52:38 AM »
Dwight, Go to Google and search Dispensationalism.

Here's an excerp of 10 kings from answers:

"The tribulation period will see a restoration of the fourth worldly kingdom spoken of in Daniel. The fourth kingdom was represented by the legs of Iron in the image of Nebechadnezzer's dream in Dan. 2. The latter phase of the kingdom is represented by the feet or iron and clay. This kingdom is also represented by the terrible beast of Dan. 7. This fourth kingdom was the Roman empire. The Roman empire will be restored in time for the tribulation and will consist of a confederation of 10 kings or kingdoms headed by the little horn of Daniel also known as the son of perdition (II Thess. 2 - the falling away is the rapture, that which restrains is the Holy Spirit whose taking away implies the absence of the church from the earth). The son of perdition is called the Anti-Christ and spoken of in Rev. 13 where he makes all who dwell on the earth to receive the mark of the beast."

Jeff

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2004, 05:20:15 AM »
Dwight, the ten kings are rulers in the last days.

 Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
 14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him

They have no rule yet, but will rule with the beast when he is loosed from the bottomless pit.

A note about Dispensationalism. You don't want to listen to that type theology because it's not based upon the bible. Use your judgment about what is bible, and what is just current event sensationalism driven.

Tony Warren

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2004, 11:07:05 AM »
>>>
I think you have adressed the horns on the beast real well, but I'm unclear about when this beast is comes up, how, and how do the 10 kings relate to this beast? Any help?
<<<

The Beast is a symbol representing Satan's kingdom where he is ruling over carnal of fleshly man, who is as the beasts of the field rather than those conformed in the image or likeness of God to not act as NATURAL man does. Beastly! The times when the beast is spoken of as rising up, it signifies God permitting Satan to prosper, and consequently the rise of this nefarious carnal nature in man. Actually, the symbolism of the beast itself has been around since the beginning, as "natural man" who is carnal, has corrupted the image in which he was created, and is thus made himself as the beasts of the field. ..i.e., without reason, without knowledge, and without virtue. In other words, natural man doing his own will or doing things instinctively as whatever feels good, as a beast does. That is the lawless image of Satan's kingdom as a Beast.

Acts 10:28
  • "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."
Ecclesiastes 3:18
  • "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts."
1 Corinthians 15:32
  • "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
Titus 1:12
  • "One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
2 Peter 2:12
  • "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

In Revelation 13 the first beast is when Christ went to the cross, thus wounding it's head (authority or rule). The second is imagery specifically dealing with the time of the end when the Church will be made apostate by false prophets.

The Beast is not only these in the end, as many surmise. For example, the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a "figure" illustrating Satan's kingdom throughout time. Seven is the number of completion, for in his final rule he is uultimately defeated. Heads are symbolic of the Beast's authority, and thus the crowns on his heads are symbolic of his reign. Again, clear indication of a Kingdom.  The horns are symbolic of the power of the Beast. This can be easily proven, as if you note, in revelation chapter 17 God clearly tells us that the seven heads were Kingdoms (mountains) where 7 kings rule, and at the time of the writing of the book of Revelation we read that 5 of the 7 were already fallen. So by scripture we see "CLEARLY" that these heads on this beast illustrate an ongoing reign of Satan symbolized through the image of the Beast. Thus we can better understand the mark of the beast in man (a signification of bondage under rule of Satan). That those are made "servants" of satan's kingdom. The symbolism of this beast (Rev. 17) is a figure illustrating this kingdom's start, through to its completion (1-7). So when the final reign of the Kingdom of Satan comes, that will be the end. AGAIN, that's why Revelation lists an 8th, but clearly declares that it is "of the seven."

The 10 kings had no rule as yet (when this book was written), but God declares they will reign one hour with the beast near the end of the world. This is just before the second advent. These who reign through Satan hate the whore (the unfaithful Church), and they will destroy it. Their abominations will leave it desolate!

The number 10 illustrates spiritually the "fullness of time" (as the 1000 year reign illustrates the fullness of time), which they will rule while destroying the harlot Church. It's a scenario, which the Church today is in constant denial about, but will most assuredly occur.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2004, 07:44:32 PM »
Quote
The 10 kings have no rule as yet (when this book was written), but will rule one hour with the beast near the end of the world just before the second advent. They hate the whore (the unfaithful Church), and they destroy it.
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Tony,

The 10 kings signifies fullness of false prophets ruling in the church who will "give their power" to the beast for one hour. Together they rule the corporate church.  In other words, the false prophets thought they are doing God's work in their church, but they actually doing the work of the beast instead without realized it. But the Elects could discern this.  

If I am correct on this, then how can they "hate" the whore?  I assume that the false prophets wont literally say that they 'hate' their church, but in God's eyes, He deceived them (making them believe a lie and serve Satan - Man of Sin,  instead) and put His Will in their heart to destory their churches with their own false gospel/lying signs by giving them up to Beast's kingdom.  That is why we, the elects, has to flee from them.  

More like a self-destruction?

Rev 17:17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Daisy

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2004, 06:42:25 AM »
I'm a little confused on this beast being around since the cross, or Christ wounding its head. I was always under the impression that the beast of Revelation 13 comes up in the end of days. Can anyone help me out with understanding why you say it's not? So how does he come out of the bottomless pit?

Dwight

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2004, 09:24:23 AM »
Hi all,
  I find these discussions about the seven horns simply fascinating, and the scriptures are very illuminating. But I don't presume to say that I understand everything, but it is really exciting to learn some things about the bible.

So I would like to broaden the discussion to this most mysterious woman riding the beast in chapter 17. In this chapter the whore sits upon this beast, and she is said to be a mystery? Why, how, when?

Hope some of you can help unravel this for me.


Bradley

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2004, 01:23:39 PM »
Hello Dwight,

Here are some passages which might help your study:

Ephesians 5:30-33
30   For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31   For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32   This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33   Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

In this passage Paul gives us spiritual truths to apply to our marriages, but these same truths are applied to the church.  He clearly says he is speaking about Christ and the church who are to be joined together into one body and one flesh.

In Revelation chapter 17, God gives us a picture of a whore riding on the beast, and we can know this is a picture of the church who has been unfaithful to her husband, Christ.  This is a mystery which will only be recognized by those who are faithful and submit themselves to the Word of God.

Revelation 17:18
18   And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

That great city is Jerusalem.  It is the symbol of the church and it has been brought down to desolation.

Revelation 21:2
2   And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

We can see from these passages, God has defined the bride as the holy Jerusalem.  We know the true elect of God represent those described in Revelation 21:2, but while on earth, Jerusalem represents the corporate body of believers which includes both true elect and professed believers.

Jeremiah 22:8-9
8   And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city?
9   Then they shall answer, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God, and worshipped other gods, and served them.

In this chapter of Jeremiah, God is warning the house of Judah (church), that they will become desolate if they do not keep their covenant with God.  He goes on to say in verse 25, that he will give them over to Babylon as judgement for their unfaithfulness.

Jeremiah 22:25
25   And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.

The following verses use the term "great city" to describe Babylon, but it is also describing Jerusalem (the corporate church) at the same time which has been made desolate by Babylon.

Revelation 18:2
2   And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 18:10
10   Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Much of this can be seen in Revelation 11:

Revelation 11:2
2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The holy city of Jerusalem has been given unto the Gentiles to tread under foot.  This was also described in Revelation 17.

Revelation 17:17
17   For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

By the grace of God alone are we given the understanding to discern the truth of these passages.  I pray the Holy Spirit would guide us all in his truth.

Bradley

 

Erik Diamond

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Re: Commentary On Revelation Chapter 17
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2004, 04:52:01 PM »
Amen Bradley,

I think our old good friend, Tony Warren, might be busy, but wondering what you think about my eariler post on 10 horns?  Does it sounds right to you?

In Him,
Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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