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Author Topic: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?  (Read 18709 times)

Zack

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2004, 10:37:28 AM »
Good post, Judy!
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Zack,  it may 'seem'  that way to you, but Christ came to do exactly what He did --  all according to God's divine plan and purposes.  If you think about it,  this type of question puts God on trial -- quite a foolish thing to do.
My question is not intended to put God on trial.  My question is intended to put the doctrine of Sola Scriptura on trial.  

Jesus founded a Church.  He did not write a Bible.  If He intended that the Bible would be the sole authority of His Church, then why didn't He write any of it?

It's something to think about.    

Oneil

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2004, 01:16:07 PM »

Jesus founded a Church.  He did not write a Bible.  If He intended that the Bible would be the sole authority of His Church, then why didn't He write any of it?

It's something to think about.    


No, it's something silly and stupid. Designed for someone silly and stupid I suppose.

If God intended that the cross be the sole mode of his crucifiction, why didn't he chop down the tree himself?

 2 Timothy 2:23
 "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes".





InChristAlone

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2004, 12:45:11 AM »
If Jesus didnít write the bible than who did? Remember that  'Men Moved By the Holy Spirit Spoke From God' (2 Peter 1.21):
Preaching Christ Alone
If our preaching does not center on Christ--from Genesis to Revelation--no matter how good or helpful, it is not a proclamation of God's Word

http://www.Christian-Boards.com

Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2004, 02:31:27 AM »
From the point of view of a Roman catholic I ask if the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" can really be proven? I do not believe that it can, but I am willing to give listen to anyone who can prove that this is a legitimate doctrine of the holy Church. I've made this challenge in other forums, but no one has bothered to respond "positively." I wonder why? So, can anyone here prove this doctrine exists in the bible? If not, then I guess we can assume that it really has no foundation.


judykanova

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2004, 03:33:05 PM »
From the point of view of a Roman catholic I ask if the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" can really be proven? I do not believe that it can, but I am willing to give listen to anyone who can prove that this is a legitimate doctrine of the holy Church. I've made this challenge in other forums, but no one has bothered to respond "positively." I wonder why? So, can anyone here prove this doctrine exists in the bible? If not, then I guess we can assume that it really has no foundation.

Doug, you speak as one who has been brainwashed.  One thing I've noticed about many (not all) catholics who come here is their seeming lack of ability to study Scripture on their own.   If by some slim chance you're really interested in truth, then you can first begin by addressing the Scriptures Andreas has already given[/u] in this regard in the 'Matt 24' thread, and/or present some of your own.  In other words, follow this forum's guidelines.

For your convenience,  I've extracted Andreas post here:
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"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". 2 Peter 1:19-21.

Notice here that the bible was written by holy men as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.Where does it say traditions or heathen historians?
If God wanted private interpretations,why did He bother to give us His word for instruction ,doctrine,reproof,and for correction? 2 Timothy3:16.
We are told, "not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth."....1 Corr.2:13,and to "shun profane,and vain babblings,for they will lead unto ungodliness".2 Tim.2:16
If old Josephus's babblings  are good enough for you and your friends,and if human traditions is what you are looking for,then good luck.You should be privileged to hold in your hand the word of God,for He is the writer.Do not look to add to it or take away from it,Rev. 22:18,  by man's humanistic ideas.

andreas. 8)

The Bible is full of such teachings.  Iíve added a few more below.  You are without excuse with your false assertions that no one has 'responded' to this question many times here.

Mar 7:7-9[/u]
7† Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9  And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Col 2:8[/u]
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Psa 119:124-136[/b]
124 Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
125  I am thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know thy testimonies.
126  It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
127† Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
128  Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
129  PE. Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them.
130  The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
131  I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments.
132  Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.
133  Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.
134  Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.
135  Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
136  Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.



Until/unless you are prepared to address these Scriptures, or come with relevant Scripture of your own, please donít waste more of everyone's time; at least be honest enough to admit your only interest here is in promoting Catholicism despite what Scriptures teach.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

midas

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2004, 08:43:15 PM »
Quote
From the point of view of a Roman catholic I ask if the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" can really be proven? I do not believe that it can, but I am willing to give listen to anyone who can prove that this is a legitimate doctrine of the holy Church

Doug, God himself could not prove to the Pharisees that he was right when he was here on earth, I doubt if we can prove anything to the Roman Catholic Church.

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I've made this challenge in other forums, but no one has bothered to respond "positively."

It could be the way you asked the question that no one responded "positively" They may have taken your question as an attack and not a discussion.

Quote
So, can anyone here prove this doctrine exists in the bible? If not, then I guess we can assume that it really has no foundation.

Just because we cannot prove something to someone who has already made up their mind should not use the word "we can assume", instead it should be "you can assume", and that's OK with me ... 

Here's my take on your question why Scripture alone is our authority, all other authorities are subordinate to the Word of God.

I Thessalonians 2:13: For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

To me God is saying the word of GOD is a higher athority than the word of men ... Since the Bible is the word of God, to me it is the higher authority over man, any man ...

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

God says all, not all but one ... Since the word of God (Bible) is a higher authory over man, and since God says all men sin, I'm going to listen to what God says, not a church or any man that sins.

II Peter 1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Everything in the Bible is what God wrote, not what Peter, Paul, Mary or Moses wrote. It is Gods word.
 
Revelation 22:18-19: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Gods said any man add or take away from the words, not all but one. I see nothing about one special or higher up man having special power to add or take away and its OK with God or coming from God ... 

I can see why some might like the Pope or Priest to be the authority in conjuction with or over the word of God. On judgement day, one can say it's not my fault, this is what the Pope or Priest told me. I did and believed what I was told. (Some Priests and Pastors believe that abortion is OK so they are covered ) On the other hand for me, I can't use that excuse, God will say to me you had the Bible, you had my word and teachings from it, you did not follow my words ...       

I am out of town Monday - Thursday with no computer, can't respond until Firday night. This is my short version on why I believe in Sola Scriptura. If its not in the bible, and scriptures can't prove themselves, then it's not from God because God wrote the Bible, it is the highest authority ...     
 

 


Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2004, 12:30:05 AM »
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Doug, God himself could not prove to the Pharisees that he was right when he was here on earth, I doubt if we can prove anything to the Roman Catholic Church.

I wasn't asking anyone to prove it to the Roman catholic Church, I asked for the scripture that proved sola scriptura.


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I Thessalonians 2:13: For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

To me God is saying the word of GOD is a higher athority than the word of men ... Since the Bible is the word of God, to me it is the higher authority over man, any man ...

But that scripture didn't say that. To you it means that, but all it said was they received the word as the word of God. But it didn't say scripture alone and no other. So that scripture doesn't support sola scriptura.


Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2004, 12:36:06 AM »
Sandy, no scripture in your post so I don't even know why you responded.

Judy, you gave scripture but calling me names like brainwashed doesn't help and is also a violation, as you accused me of.

Andrea, your scripture needs to be looked at more carefully, and I will. I'll get back to you.

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If God wanted private interpretations,why did He bother to give us His word for instruction ,doctrine,reproof,and for correction? 2 Timothy3:16.
We are told, "not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth."....1 Corr.2:13

Are you under the impression we don't believe scripture. Because we do.  I know scripture is profitable. But I still need to know where you get the idea that it alone is the authority? I agree it is authoritative. But it alone?


Sandy

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 12:41:58 PM »
Doug,

While reading First Principles of Bible Study (an excellent study, you might find it to be exceedingly helpful) I came across this article of the Belgic Confession that states very well the biblical principle that nothing can stand above the Bible.

"We believe that those Holy Scriptures fully contain the will of God, and that whatsoever man ought to believe unto salvation is sufficiently taught therein.  For since the whole manner of worship which God requires of us is written in them at large, it is unlawful for any one, though an apostle, to teach otherwise than we are now taught in the Holy Scriptures:  nay, though it were an angel from heaven, as the apostle Paul says.  For since it is forbidden to add unto or take away anything from the Word of God, it does thereby evidently appear that the doctrine thereof is most perfect and complete in all respects.
Neither may we consider and writings of men, however holy these men may have been, of equal value with those divine Scriptures, nor ought we to consider custom, or the great multitude, or antiquity, or succession of times and persons, or concils, decrees or statutes, as of equal value with the truth of God, since the truth is above all;  for all men are of themselves liars, and more vain than vanity itself.  Therefore we reject with all our hearts whatsoever does not agree with this infallible rule, which the apostles have taught us, saying, Prove the spirits, whether they are of God.  Likewise:  If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into your house."

Kenneth White

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2004, 05:03:07 AM »
Doug, you might try reading in Corinthians where we are told not to think more than what is written. the words of men is not in the original text.

 1 Cor 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

The larger context of 1 Cor 4:6 is in a section of 1 Corinthians we (Chapters 1-4.) where the members of the church were beginning to follow men rather than scripture, and this is rebuked here.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2004, 12:24:54 AM »
Doug,

While reading First Principles of Bible Study (an excellent study, you might find it to be exceedingly helpful) I came across this article of the Belgic Confession that states very well the biblical principle that nothing can stand above the Bible.


If you want me to read the first principles of bible study you'll have to tell me on what site it is located so I can find it. Does it explain how sola scriptura is in the bible? Why then is tradition spoken of so highly in scripture?

Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2004, 12:26:46 AM »
Doug,

It would appear that you spend so little time in Scripture that you don't even recognize biblical principles without being given chapter and verse.  In 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 we read:  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. 
Sandy   

Doesn't that mean he first received it orally? It seems that's the way it is spoken to me.

Doug Johnson

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2004, 12:31:20 AM »
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I've made this challenge in other forums, but no one has bothered to respond "positively."

It could be the way you asked the question that no one responded "positively" They may have taken your question as an attack and not a discussion.

Have you read my question? Does it sound like an attack to you? I don't know where you get that idea from. I asked straight forward questions. You mean to tell me that people are so thinned skinned they think my questions asking for the biblical basis for sola scriptura are an attack? I don't think so. I just believe that they don't really have a sound basis for rejecting the oral traditions of the church.

Sandy

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2004, 11:26:33 AM »
Doug,

First Principles of Bible Study can be found here on Mt. Retreat by clicking on Bible Studies at the top of the page.  This is the first study listed.  There are many other excellent studies listed also.  Each is worth spending time with.  You may find answers to many of your questions by reading the article by Tony Warren "Is the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical"  May God richly bless you in your desire to study.

Sandy   

midas

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Re: Is The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Biblical?
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2004, 04:35:55 AM »
2Timothy 3:16† All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God says I am throughly furnished for all works through reading scriptures. It does not say that scripture will equip us for MOST good works. It does not say that scripture will equip us PARTIALLY for good works. He doesn't say I need someone to help me understand or a church to assist in my instruction. He says ALL ... Again you will say but God doesnít say the Bible is all sufficient by itself in this verse. And your right, God doesn't use the exact words you are looking for however he is not saying I need anything else. Surely, Paul would have directed us to any and all other rules of faith that we would need to be complete here but he doesn't.

Does God have to use an exact word or pharse that you want in order for you to believe a particular verse? Does scripture come out and teach to Pray to Mary? Does scripture teach that Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven?

The authority of Scriptures is seen in many places in the bible

Heb 6:18† That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

The Bible is the word of God and God cannot lie. Can man lie? Can Pastors or Priest lie? Can you trust any man priest or pastor 100%?The bible is the authority because it is the only word we can trust 100%. Again God doesn't use the exact words you want and he doesn't have to, to make his point.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Man lives by the word of God which is the bible. Our life is found in the word of God. That is ultimate to me.

Matthew 4: 1 - 11 ... Three times Jesus was tempted by the devel all and three times he defeated the devil by saying "it is written" That is athority and power.

Act 17:2  And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures

Pual was inspired with oral revelation however he had to use the scriptures to reason with them. Why did Paul have to use the scriptures to prove? Because scriptures is the final proof and authority. Scripture cannot lie becasue they are from God.

If the bible is not the authority  then who or what is? Can't be a man (Pastor, Priest or Pope) They all sin because God said it. Can't be the church because look at all the trouble they are having. Some believe in abortion, some disagree on who can takes communion, some say it is OK to smoke some say no, and so on. From all this confusion Doug, how can you know what is 100% true when you hear so many different opinions in your Church. What one form of absolute truth do you have to find what is truly of GOD? Again, it can't be a Church because they believe in different things, even the Catholic Church. From what I can see the bible (Word of God) is the only form of knowledge (Authority) that is 100% true. I know, there may not be one or two verses that say what you want to hear as proof however when you read the whole bible and put it all together, definitely, the bible is the sole and infallible rule of faith for the Church.

Again, if the only way you will believe in Sola Scriptura is to read an exact word or pharse that you are looking for in the bible, or if you need the Church or Priest to tell you it is true then you won't believe in it. As far as your concerned you are right it is not true ... You have to read and study the whole bible and put it all together to understand what God is telling you.

God works in Mysteries ways. Doug, I believe God just used you to help me understand his word better and Strengthen my faith ...






 


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