The End Of The Church Age

[Reformer]

Is there an end of the Church age, is there going to be a revival, is this apostasy just another in a long list of them, are the Churches not falling away?

Granny,
   The Church was never meant to be the vehicle for salvation on earth forever, only until all Israel were sealed. So it is inevitable that there will be an end of the Church age. Because whenever that last saint is saved, that will be the end of the Church age. And no one knows when that last saint is saved, but God. But when he or she is, that's the end. Even though we'll still be here on earth until Christ returns, and have tribulation, the end of our witness in the Church has come. Our testimony is finished there. Don't listen to people like me, read the scriptures for yourself. Don't let someone tell you it's too hard to understand, God wrote it for a reason.

 Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

There are various theories of who the two witnesses are, but good Christians never interpret scripture by theories. But every legitimate theologian (and I say legitimate, deliberately as synonymous with Biblical) will tell you that the two witnesses represent the true Church. Therefore, when we read from God that they have finished their testimony, and then they are killed, there can be no debate or rejection of the truth that their witness has ended as far as I'm concerned. The only way a theologian can argue against that, is if that theologian doesn't believe the two witnesses represent the true Church or true believers. And if they believe that, they are not using a sound system of interpretation in the first place.

 Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

As Tony Warren said, it really is not that it's so confusing, but that it's not given for everyone to know the mysteries of God, like the great Harlot. If it was, God wouldn't call it a mystery or secret. The truth is, people don't really like what the scriptures say. But f we accept the symbolism, it means the believers are all killed in the Church. And that is what sticks in their craw. That they might have to leave their beloved Church.

[Erik Diamond]

Erik,
  That is a good point. None of them work anymore. Can't you just edit the links out?

Reformer,

You no longer have ability to edit or delete your post that old .  

The moderator can go ahead and edit or delete my link/post as he sees fit.  He would also need to delete Drew's post that quoted my "dead link" Drew desperately wanted to be removed.  

Erik
 

[Drew]

Granny,
   The Church was never meant to be the vehicle for salvation on earth forever, only until all Israel were sealed. So it is inevitable that there will be an end of the Church age.

Oh no? Then what of the promised reign of Christ from Jerusalem, and the Covenant to save Israel?

 Zechariah 14:8-9
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.  And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

 So for people who claim to not ignore scripture, you all seem to ignore this. And we know why, don't we?  Because after the Church of Gentiles, then shall all Israel be saved. Romans 11 makes that clear.

[Erik Diamond]

Oh no? Then what of the promised reign of Christ from Jerusalem, and the Covenant to save Israel?

 Zechariah 14:8-9
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.  And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Many people like you, Drew, misunderstood the prophecy of Zechariah 14.  Zechariah 14 was not talking about future second coming or a golden thousand year reign in the Middle East at all!  In that day was when Christ went to the Cross, the Living Waters (Holy Spirit), going forth to the old testament Elects (former sea) and new testament Elects (hinder sea), making them ONE PEOPLE!  At that time, when Jesus said, "It is finished",  there is no longer the division of Jew and Gentile, but we are all ONE BODY OF CHRIST, ONE CONGREGATION of ISRAEL, and ONE LORD, the Saviour of all the earth. It was fulfilled at the Cross!

This was confirmed in

Eph 4:3-6

• Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
• There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
• One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
• One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This is what being revealed in Zechariah 14:8-9.  Salvation went forth to all of ELECTS in the old testament and new testament.  

So for people who claim to not ignore scripture, you all seem to ignore this. And we know why, don't we?  Because after the Church of Gentiles, then shall all Israel be saved. Romans 11 makes that clear.

You really can't read or quote Scripture, don't you?

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This is the MYSTERY that you do not understand Drew!  We were told not to be ignorant of the "mystery" which is that the GENTILES is actually part of this very same "ONE BODY", which is COVENANT ISRAEL! It is God's plan that Jew and Gentiles are ONE people together as ONE family of God! Drew, can't you read the following Scripture:

Eph 3:3-6

• How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
• Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
• Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
• That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

ONE BODY! SAME BODY! Yet you could not understand this mystery because you are blind by false doctrines that the Jew and Gentiles are two separate people, two separate salvation programs, etc. etc.

Think about it. IN the time of "former sea" (OT), Salvation went to the Jews first, right?  but because of the unbelief of the corporate part of Israel, the Jew is blinded! So that the salvation now went to the Gentiles in the "hinder sea" (NT) until the FULLNESS of Gentiles ELECTS be coming in.  EVEN SO, ALL Israel shall be saved! Selah!  There is no future salvation plan for ethnic Jews after the fullness of Gentiles at all!  Here is the Truth.  After all Gentiles Elects are secured, then All Israel has been saved. Done for! Finished!  All of these elects of old and new testament are ONE BODY, ONE ETERNAL CHURCH, ONE ISRAEL. This is the covenant that Christ came for - at the Cross!

Partial blindness came to Jews during the New Testament means that only few Jews were able to get saved during New Testament era along with the Gentiles, even today.  There is no future massive salvation plan for ethnic Jews in national Israel after the church in the future.

Erik

[Granny]

For people who prefer to view in .pdf so you can zoom it, may visit this link
http://www.tribulationsigns.com/image/greattribulation.pdf
 

Erik, what did the pdf picture show?  Did it give any insight into what you thought was when the end of the Church was? I think I read you thought it was over? if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

[Fred]

Granny, listen! There is no end of the Church because it cannot fall. There is no killing of the two witnesses, that's just symbolic. Symbolism means not real. It doesn't mean the witnesses in the Church are killed, only false witnesses can be killed. Just remember, the Church goes on.

 Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

He that doesn't believe is the antichrist.

[Wanda]

Granny, listen! There is no end of the Church because it cannot fall. There is no killing of the two witnesses, that's just symbolic.

Of course it is symbolic. That's the point. And symbolic or not, there is a killing of the two witnesses. Because God's word says so.

Symbolism means not real.

Not true. The 7 candlesticks were the 7 Churches of Asia. And they were very real. You should start reading your bible more carefully.

Just remember, the Church goes on.

 Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

He that doesn't believe is the antichrist.

 Misapplied scripture. The 7 Churches of Asia didn't go on. They were destroyed. What do you say about that? This earth and everything in it are temporary. Sooner or later, everything on this earth comes to an end. It is the Spirit and soul of believers that live for ever, not the Churches on earth.

[Bunyan]

For people who prefer to view in .pdf so you can zoom it, may visit this link
http://www.tribulationsigns.com/image/greattribulation.pdf
 

Erik, what did the pdf picture show?  Did it give any insight into what you thought was when the end of the Church was? I think I read you thought it was over? if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Granny,
   Maybe I can help. Tony has a chart showing this period. It's not pdf but it won't disapear in a week or two either.  So you can come back to it later on if you need to. Here it is.

I think they both show the Church age and the killing of the Witnesses in it, along with the abomination of desolation, in relationship to the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. Hope that helps.

[Erik Diamond]

Erik, what did the pdf picture show?  Did it give any insight into what you thought was when the end of the Church was? I think I read you thought it was over? if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

My pdf had more details than Tony's.  I pulled it out so I could re-design it to make it easier to follow.

Yes, I believe that the Church Age has expired for a while now.  

Erik

[Erik Diamond]

There is no end of the Church because it cannot fall.

The ETERNAL CHURCH (Elects) never falls! What God talk is the fall of the external church! There are riches of Scripture that confirms the end of the church. You need to figure out which church. 

There is no killing of the two witnesses, that's just symbolic. Symbolism means not real. It doesn't mean the witnesses in the Church are killed, only false witnesses can be killed. Just remember, the Church goes on.

Wrong.

Rev 11:3-4

• And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
• These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
  

Rev 11:7-8

• And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

GOd is talking about TRUE Two Witnesses, His Elects.  They received POWER to testify Gospel to the world for 1,260 symbolic period which covered the whole church age.  The beast came out of bottomless pit and will kill them. The killing signifies the silence of TRUE witness, not false.   

Erik

[Drew]

Stop it, STOP IT! The Church has done nothing wrong. She is without fault, and is not under your law anyway if she has. You think that she is wrong just because she receives the unrighteous in truth and love and doesn't breath fire and coals? The Church age won't end because the Church has done nothing wrong. You're legalists.

[Drew]

My pdf had more details than Tony's.

Erik

You call them details?    But that's just a rumor since no one can keep track of it. With your on and off again Websites renames. Where is it Err? What's your URL address or link this year?  Why don't you pick a name and stick with it. It's kind of like your theology. Ever changing and confusing.   read the bible.

There is no end of the Church age friend.

 Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, age without end. Amen.

 Ok, you clear on that erik?

[Erik Diamond]

Stop it, STOP IT! The Church has done nothing wrong. She is without fault, and is not under your law anyway if she has. You think that she is wrong just because she receives the unrighteous in truth and love and doesn't breath fire and coals? The Church age won't end because the Church has done nothing wrong. You're legalists.

Drew,

What can I say but you are as blind as Lot's sons in law who mocked Lot that God was going to judge Sodom:  

Gen 19:14

• And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

And Sodom was indeed destroyed with sons in law and those residents that was struck BLIND. 

Now, the Two Witnesses, being God's Elects, will be slain in the great city which is CHURCH.  And this is the city which has BECAME SPIRITUALLY is called Sodom (abomination) and Egypt Egypt (bondage):   

Rev 11:7-8

• And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And you screamed that there is nothing wrong with the church (great city). You deny it and believe that God will never harm her, just because she is God's queen? What does God say?

Rev 18:7-8

• How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
• Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

So, yes, God is going to JUDGE church. The real question is whether you will receive what God Words say or you, too, will end up being blind like the residents of the city right before the city was destroyed. Humm?   

Erik

[Erik Diamond]

You call them details?  Roll Eyes  But that's just a rumor since no one can keep track of it. With your on and off again Websites renames. Where is it Err? What's your URL address or link this year?  Why don't you pick a name and stick with it. It's kind of like your theology. Ever changing and confusing.   read the bible.

Why complain about my PDF file or my website? If you can't receive what Bible says, you won't accept what my detailed file says anyway. You are wasting everyone time here with your mockery.

There is no end of the Church age friend.

Lot's sons in law thought too about their city.

Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, age without end. Amen.

No, you Drew, do not get it.  You are confused on how the whole Church can fall, and yet the Church of believers may still come together and not be that Church, then you really do not understand the external covenant Church relationship, and how God warns He will bring that Church to desolation and destroy it, just like He did with city of Sodom.

You seem to be confused with a TRUE body of believers (Eternal Church) that has relationship with Christ Jesus thoughtout all ages, VERSUS the external Covenant Church which make up of men that does not have seal of God that now runs the church today!  You seem determined to inextricably link the two together as one.  

Is that clear to you?

Erik

[Tony Warren]

>>>
Stop it, STOP IT!
<<<

 Why? is the truth a torment to you?

  Galatians 4:16

• " Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

 That the Lord's Covenant Church on earth will end is a Biblical fact. The only legitimate question is, when? At the Last Day (John 12:48) of this world, or when the beast from the bottomless pit kills it. Actually, it's a matter of one's hermeneutic. Does God interpret his own word, or does man privately interpret?

>>>
The Church has done nothing wrong. She is without fault,
<<<

In her own eyes? Yes, in that sense you have spoken wisely. How much she has glorified herself, and lived deliciously and declares she sits a queen, and is no widow, and shall see no sorrow. ...she is delusionary, for God has sent her that.

Proverb 16:2

• "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."

The Church that cannot fall is a Spiritual house, weighed in the balances by God. The Only Church that is without fault before God is the Elect. It's the only temple that cannot be ruled by the man of sin. Selah! These Elect abide in a house whose builder and maker is God. Neither temporal buildings, nor earthly infatuation and ceremonies, a House of God make.

>>>
...and is not under the law anyway, even if she had.
<<<

Again, the vain words of men, versus the infallible word of God. A matter of hermeneutics:

Revelation 2:4-5

• "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
• Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

Revelation 1:20

• "...and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Evidently (according to God's word), God deems His Church culpable and promises righteous judgment upon it if it's messengers don't remember from where they were before falling from the faith, and repent and do the first works. So again it's the age old question. Who are we going to believe? God or man? Can the Church be moved out of it's place because of it's messenger's transgressions, or is the Lord exaggerating or lying? Guess it depends upon who takes God's word seriously.

>>>
 You think that she is wrong just because she receives the unrighteous in truth and love and doesn't breath fire and coals?
<<<

Yes, but whose Love? That she doesn't speak with fire (anymore) is true. My, how appropriate your words are. And the sad thing is, you don't even know how appropriate. No, she doesn't breath fire anymore. But the Two Witnesses do, as a testimony against her.

Revelation 11:3

• "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

Revelation 11:5

• "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."

Jeremiah 5:14

• "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them."

And this breathing fire from the mouth? ...it burned them, and they knew it not, because they were under strong delusion. Selah. As saith the Preacher, "There is nothing new under the sun."

Isaiah 42:25

• "Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."

Such is the burning of Babylon by the word of God.  So why would she think she is under the wrath of God? She is under delusion and doesn't know, nor her lovers hear the call to come out of her, nor see the smoke of her burning. But those who stand afar off, do. Selah!

>>>
 The Church age won't end because the Church has done nothing wrong.
<<<

A recurring theme among the idolatrous.

Proverbs 30:20

• "Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness."

Before one eats, one should beware the leaven of the Pharisees.....

"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"