[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25  (Read 5808 times)

john

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
  • Gender: Male
  • A man with God is always in the majority-John Knox
How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« on: November 27, 2003, 12:48:25 AM »
I think there was a study done on part or all of these verses by Tony Warren, I remember reading it, but I cannot locate it? If it exists, anyone know where it might be?  Barring that, would anyone care to give a verse by verse explanation?

Isaiah 65:17-25
17  For, behold, I create new heavens and new earth. And the former things shall not be recalled, and they shall not go up on the heart.
18  However, be glad and rejoice forever in what I create. For, behold, I create in Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19  And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people. And the voice of weeping and the voice of crying shall no longer be heard in her.
20  There shall not still be an infant of days, or an old man that has not filled his days. For the youth shall die the son of a hundred years, but the sinner the son of a hundred years shall be accursed.
21  And they shall build houses and live in them; and they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22  They shall not build, and another live in them; they shall not plant, and another eat. For like the days of the tree are the days of My people; and My elect shall grow old to the work of their hands.
23  They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for terror. For they are the seed of the beloved ones of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
24  And it will be, before they call, I will answer. While they are speaking, then I will hear.
25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed as one; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And dust is the food of the snake. They shall not do evil nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.


john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Kenneth White

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinking Christians, Intelligent Theology
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2003, 03:31:19 PM »
Barring that, would anyone care to give a verse by verse explanation?

john

I would be interested in "participating" in a verse by verse bible study of the verses, but not doing it myself. If there are more who would participate.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

andreas

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
  • Gender: Male
  • Helpless, look to Thee for grace
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2003, 01:46:34 AM »
John ,try:
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/2211.htm
It is only 17-19.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

john

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
  • Gender: Male
  • A man with God is always in the majority-John Knox
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2003, 11:37:12 PM »
Here's what I see, let me know how you might differ If you dislike long posts, then this is going to be upsetting -- it's long. Please feel free to critique.

Isaiah 65:17-25
17  For, behold, I create new heavens and new earth. And the former things shall not be recalled, and they shall not go up on the heart.


This very verse is referenced as a promise in 2Pe 3:13  "But according to His promise, we look for "new heavens and a new earth," in which righteousness dwells".   2Peter 3 is in the context of the return of Christ, "looking for hastening the coming of the Day of God, through which the heavens having been set afire will be dissolved; and burning, the elements will melt", which means Isaiah 65 is dealing with the same timeframe.

The new heavens and new earth follow the destruction of the wicked seen in Rev 20:15  And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire. The next event John sees is Rev 21:1, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea no longer is". We can be confident then Isaiah 65 is dealing with these events and is not allegorical (as a symbol relating to the establishment of Christ's Kingdom). Revelation 21:4, "death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away" replies to Isaiah 65:17 "...And the former things shall not be recalled, and they shall not go up on the heart



18  However, be glad and rejoice forever in what I create. For, behold, I create in Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.


This Jerusalem is one in the same as the bride prepared for her Husband in Rev 21:2, "And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband". The elect are created anew in Christ with joy, the true Church, becoming as it were God's Jerusalem; rejoicing in what God has done. (Heb 12:22)


19  And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people. And the voice of weeping and the voice of crying shall no longer be heard in her.


God rejoices in His bride, the elect, whom He has prepared for Himself to dwell amongst and be their God everlastingly. As Ezekiel speaks of this, God dwells (tabernacles) with men:  Ezekiel 37:27-28, "And My tabernacle shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And when My sanctuary shall be in their midst forever, the nations shall know that I, Jehovah, sanctify Israel". God will reside with His elect, being their God and we His people, forever. Revelation says no different:

Rev 21:3  And I heard a loud voice out of heaven, saying, "Look! The tabernacle of God [is] with the people, and He will tabernacle [or, dwell] with them. And they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.

Now comes a  seemingly difficult verse, especially for those who reason a literal millennium will ensue where people will experience life-extension as Christ rules from a literal Jerusalem. However, we have the context: The new heavens follows Judgment Day and the destruction of the earth with fire; Isaiah 65 cannot be taken literally, without violating Scripture -- though some are willing to do so to keep their earthly reign.

20  Neither shall there be there any more an infant of days, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed.

Revelation 21:4 says clearly that in the new heaven and earth "And death shall be no longer", which seems problematic considering verse 20 says "the youth shall die the son of a hundered years". So, which is it? The answer, I believe, is that God is using an analogy of lifespan to prove a spiritual point.

There "shall no more be an infant" that dies with only short days to its credit or an old man who will not complete his appointed span. Logically, if an infant doesn't die young, it becomes an old man, and old men die only when there time is full, thereby ensuring all to live until the fullness of their time. Yet, this is speaking of the new heavens, there is no death, there is no marriage, there are no children or old men. We have been raised and changed, the corruptible putting on incorruptible, 1Co 15:53  "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."  

The solution is in the fullness of our time in heaven. The fullness of our time is 100, signifying a complete life (10 being completeness), something we cannot reach. We never reach that span where we have completed our time. "For a child shall die a hundred years old", if that were possible to fully complete (100) our life in the new heavens and earth, which it is not. Just as Rev 22:5 states of that time, "And they shall reign to the ages of the ages", we shall never fulfill the circuit of our days, it is an everlasting existence.

However, for the sinner, he remains dead until the fullness of time (hundred years), and shall remain accursed, "and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed". Rev 22:15 is clear the wicked continue in the second death, Rev 22:15 "But outside are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving a lie, and making it". Even unto the completeness of days (never ending), the wicked remain accursed; a fearful, never ending torment for those outside God.


21-22  And they shall build houses and live in them; and they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build, and another live in them; they shall not plant, and another eat.

The building of houses and planting vineyards implies the elect will dwell in the land for a long time. We see similar instructions during the Babylonian captivity: Jer 29:28  "On account of this he sent to us in Babylon, saying, This exile is long; build houses and live; and plant gardens and eat their fruit".  In this world we are strangers and pilgrims (see Jer 35:7 where Jonadab remained a pilgrim refusing to build or plant), but in the new heavens we are established forever. This same truth is found in Ezekiel 28:25-26, where God promises to one day have Spiritual Israel dwell securely in the land (heaven) and build houses and plant vineyards.

So says the Lord Jehovah: When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are dispersed, and have been sanctified in them in the sight of the nations, then they shall dwell on their land which I have given to My servant Jacob. And they shall dwell in it securely and shall build houses and plant vineyards. Yes, they shall dwell securely, when I have done judgments on all those who hate them round about them. And they shall know that I am Jehovah their God.


Isaiah 65:23 "For like the days of the tree are the days of My people; and My elect shall grow old to the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for terror. For they are the seed of the beloved ones of Jehovah, and their offspring with them".

What are the days of a tree?  Rather long, or as  Psalm 52 says "everlasting", Psa 52:8 "But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God; I trust in the mercy of God forever and ever." Those under the covenant of God are trees, some will endure, while others never had Root and will be destroyed:

Isaiah 1:30-31 "For you shall be like a tree whose leaf fades, and like a garden that has no water in it. And the strong one shall be for tow, and his work for a spark; and they shall burn both together; and no one shall quench them".
 
What is the meaning of "My elect will long enjoy the work of their hands"?  In the new heaven, what is the work of the elect?  Remembering 1 Corinthians 3:13-14, "...each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is. If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward".

Our work is the reaping of souls through the preaching of the word; those that really passed through the fire with Christ will be a good kind, "not for terror (Judgment) or in vain", but our work that we built will remain )as God blesses). In this, because we have gathered some good wheat into the storehouse (God gives the increase), we will be able to enjoy the work of our hands (fellow believers) eternally with us.
 
This is as so much what the last of the verse says, "For they are the fruit of the blessed ones of Jehovah, and their produce with them". The elect are the fruit or seed of Jehovah's work, and the elect bring into heaven with them those (produce or offspring) they have toiled over. That the elect are the offspring of God is sure:

Acts 17:28-29 "For in Him we live and move and exist, as also some of the poets among you have said, For we are also His offspring. Then being offspring of God, we ought not to suppose that the Godhead is like gold or silver or stone, engraved by art and the imagination of man."



24  And it will be, before they call, I will answer. While they are speaking, then I will hear.



In verse 24 is the assurance from God that to His blessed ones, the offspring of God, He will answer in salvation before they call upon Him. God replies in salvation before the elect call, He hears will they are pleading God for salvation. This is a reminder of the true nature of salvation.


25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed as one; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And dust is the food of the snake. They shall not do evil nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.

Verse 25 ends our discussion of Isaiah 65. Should we think that the lamb and wolf are to be understood as real earthly wolves and lambs?  Verse 25 is continuing the salvation of God to its conclusion. In the new heavens and earth, that which was started in us will be completed. It is speaking of God's covenant of peace wherein there is reconciliation between God and man (Hosea 2:18-19 And in that day I will cut a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the birds of the heavens, and the creepers of the ground. And I will break the bow and the sword, and the battle out of the earth, and I will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth you to Me forever. Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in mercy, and in compassions.

Those creatures that are at war will become at rest from their warfare, the wolf and the lamb will feed as one, both subject to God.   This is the covenant of salvation that God makes, that we will be safe before God, though we were wild -- yet we are betrothed to God forever, who has compassion on us. Again, the remnant of Israel shall feed and lie down together in salvation:

Zephaniah 3:13-15, "The remnant of Israel shall not do injustice, nor speak lies. And a deceitful tongue shall not be found in their mouth. For they shall feed and lie down, and no one shall frighten them. Shout for joy, daughter of Zion; shout, Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all the heart, daughter of Jerusalem! Jehovah has turned off your judgments; He has turned away your enemy. Jehovah, the King of Israel, is in your midst; you shall not fear evil any more".

Lastly we have: "And dust is the food of the snake. They shall not do evil nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah."  That old snake Satan will be eating dirt, under God's wrath in the Lake of Fire, unable to cause any more trouble. Zion, God's Holy Mountain, the Kingdom the elect enter into upon salvation, is pure and undefiled. In this Kingdom the kings (elect) will walk: Rev 21:24  And the nations of the ones saved will walk in its light; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Though, salvation comes in our spirit so that we are at peace with God, it is not until this body of death is removed and we are clothed in our new heavenly body that we enter perfect peace in the presence of the Lamb.

Revelation 21:22-23 "And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb. And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, even its lamp is the Lamb."

And so, the Kingdom of God, His Holy Mountain, Zion, is at peace -- all enmity ceased forever. Thus concludes the study of Isaiah 65, a study in the salvation of God.

john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Chris

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
  • I'm a llama!
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2003, 08:26:51 AM »

 John, what version of the bible are you using? I'm unfamiliar with this language. You say verse 20 is a seemingly difficult verse. I would contend with that, I think it is by all accounts a very difficult verse. I've never read anyone who doesn't think it's difficult. Scholars have puzzled over it for hundreds of years, and I haven't heard an explanation yet that I can I fully agree that this is definately what it means.

You could be right on that verse, but it strikes me as a somewhat forced interpretation. I know the number 100 is spiritual, but I still find it difficult understanding how a child dies 100, or a man 100 years old fulfilling his days means what you say here. There has to be more to this than God has seen fit to reveal to us yet. I've heard this interpretation before, but I'm not convinced by scripture yet that this is what this is saying.


bloodstone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
  • I'm a llama!
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2003, 08:18:09 AM »
That's a good post John. I follow and tend to agree with most of it. I do have a problem with the saved being illustrated as wolves though. I do not believe that can be right. The lamb laying down with the wolf I do not presume to tell you I understand, but I don't think God would symbolize believers in heaven as wolves. Do you have anymore information on that?

Reformer

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1269
  • Reformed and Evangelical
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2003, 08:09:30 PM »
That's a good post John. I follow and tend to agree with most of it. I do have a problem with the saved being illustrated as wolves though. I do not believe that can be right. The lamb laying down with the wolf I do not presume to tell you I understand, but I don't think God would symbolize believers in heaven as wolves. Do you have anymore information on that?


Bloodstone has brought up an excellent point. I read in scripture that the wolves and goats are symbols of false teachers. Here are some scriptures to consider.

Genesis 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Jeremiah 5:6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Ezekiel 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

Zephaniah 3:3-4 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. {4} Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

Even Christ himself spoke of the wolf as false prophets, those who come against the sheep.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

And Paul also carried on this tradition.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

I also find it difficult to believe that the wolf lying down with the lamb is anything but the security of the saints, like shown in Mark 16. I know those old testament chapters are difficult, but I believe this is where the truth lies.

Bruce

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • I'm a llama!
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2003, 09:53:29 PM »
Does this mean that you think the new heaven and the new earth are somehow the new covenant period? That's not conventional.

Bradley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 368
  • Gender: Male
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2003, 01:28:15 PM »
>>>Does this mean that you think the new heaven and the new earth are somehow the new covenant period? That's not conventional. <<<


I just started studying John's post last night but I would raise the same questions.  Consider the following passage in the same book of the Bible which speaks of very similiar language?

Isaiah 11
1   And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2   And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3   And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4   But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5   And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6   The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7   And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8   And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9   They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10   And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

This chapter certainly speaks about the new covenant period and it overlaps significantly with Isaiah 65:17-25.  Jesus is the rod out of the stem of Jesse who judges with righteousness and stands as an ensign for the Gentiles.

I think we need to look at both of these texts in light of Mark 16.

Mark 16:17-18
17   And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18   They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

With a spiritual understanding of these texts we understand that a believer (child) can play at the hole of the asp (false prophet) because he has the protection of the Holy Spirit.

I think we can transfer this same understanding over to the wolf dwelling with the lamb.  In this new covenant period we have new power.  Satan has been defeated and the highway into the kingdom of heaven has been opened up.  There is divine protection for the elect of God.  God keeps his people from harm.  Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed (John 8:36).

I want to do some more study into the passage of Isaiah 65:17-25, but from what I have seen so far, I think a case can certainly be made for this talking about the new covenant period.

Bradley

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2003, 02:18:53 PM »
>>>
This chapter certainly speaks about the new covenant period and it overlaps significantly with Isaiah 65:17-25.  Jesus is the rod out of the stem of Jesse who judges with righteousness and stands as an ensign for the Gentiles.

I think we need to look at both of these texts in light of Mark 16.
<<<


Agreed, and many other scriptures, because there are so many things to consider here. People often neglect that "symbolism" is an integral part of these prophesies. That's why it says Christ is the Root, the Branch, and it speaks of Lambs and Wolves. Jesus Christ was sent, the messenger of the Covenant, to confirm these promises made (Luke 1:68-75). And we can see that Romans chapter 15 illustrates the promises made to the fathers, quoted  from "this very Isaiah chapter 11", were fulfilled in Christ. He is the true Holy City come down from heaven which makes us the representation of the Holy city, New Jerusalem. It's not as cut and dried as it might first seem.

Romans 15:9-12
  • "And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
  • And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
  • And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
  • And again, Esaias (Isaiah) saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust."

This Root of Jesse prophecy, along with the comments about the reigning over Gentiles is directly from Isaiah 11 speaking of the same wolf and lambs.

Isaiah 11:1
  • "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:"
Isaiah 11:10
  • "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Romans chapter 15 declares to us that these prophesies of Isaiah 11 are fulfilled through Jesus Christ.

And as you said, as relating to Mark 16, we should also consider the other verses present too.

Isaiah 11:8
  • "And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den."

Harmonizes with Mark chapter 16, declaring the child of God can pick up serpents and cannot be hurt by them. The asp and cockatrice are serpents (vipers or snakes). The same symbolic principle is in view. Those baptized in the Spirit cannot be hurt by the serpent. i.e., they can play on the serpent's den. Nor the lamb be hurt by the wolf (even if he is in sheep's clothing). It's all the exact same principle of the "seal" or security placed upon the Child of God by faith in Christ

..something to think about.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Gilda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • I'm a llama!
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2003, 10:53:53 PM »
I don't know, this sounds very Preterist to me. What about the other parts of the verses?

 Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

A little child shall lead them? The lion eats straw? The lion is not eating straw in the new testament. Perhaps you are jumping to conclusions.

Bradley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 368
  • Gender: Male
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2003, 04:32:26 PM »
>>>Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

A little child shall lead them? The lion eats straw? The lion is not eating straw in the new testament. Perhaps you are jumping to conclusions.<<<


What would a lion normally eat?  It would eat a lamb.  What do lions symbolize in scripture?  They symbolize the wicked.

Psalm 17
8   Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,
9   From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about.
10   They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly.
11   They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth;
12   Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places.
13   Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
14   From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

Psalm 10
4   The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5   His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6   He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
7   His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
8   He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
9   He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.
10   He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones.

During the new covenant period the wicked will not be preying on believers because we will be protected by God.  Satan is bound so the gospel will go forth.  The wording of the passage illustrates the point that the lion will no longer be a danger to the lamb.  The people of God are protected within the secret place of the most High.

Psalm 91
1   He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2   I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3   Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4   He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5   Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6   Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7   A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8   Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9   Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10   There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11   For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12   They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13   Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14   Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15   He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16   With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

As soon as the purpose of the new covenant period is accomplished, Satan will once again be loosed to go about seeking and destroying.  The judgment will be brought upon the corporate church and the true believers will separate themselves from this abomination.  The house of Israel will be fallen.

Amos 5
1   Hear ye this word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel.
2   The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.

16   Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
17   And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
18   Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19   As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20   Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Why is their wailing?  Because judgment is come upon the house of the Lord.  For a short season the wicked will have their way with the house of God.

Bradley

Reformer

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1269
  • Reformed and Evangelical
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2003, 07:33:49 PM »
I don't know, this sounds very Preterist to me. What about the other parts of the verses?

A little child shall lead them? The lion eats straw? The lion is not eating straw in the new testament. Perhaps you are jumping to conclusions.


The child is the same word babe (exodus 2:6), and the new testamemnt Church are babes, or children of God.

 Matthew 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

 Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

The child shall lead them and not be hurt because as verse 9 says

 Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Which reminds me of the verse the postmillennialists use to support Christ's dominion from sea to sea. This is it. The New Covenant period, not the golden age they perceive. This is an interesting chapter. Isaiah 65 ties it all in how the kingdom is like heaven. Much like Revelation 12 does.

tj_reformed

  • Guest
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2003, 10:32:02 PM »
Isaiah 65 should be compared with Isaiah 11 and Rev 21-22.  And all of that should be viewed in light of the Paul's words in Romans 15, specifically verse 12 where he quotes Isaiah 11 as being fulfilled in his day, therefore implying the the new creation, and all that goes with it, was fulfilled in his day.  The symbolism of Isaiah 11, 65-66 is easily understood in terms of the change that occurs at rebirth (see John Gill's commentary on these chapters for more of this).  They are also in line with the idea of God's spiritual kingdom which will never again be over thrown as physical Israel was repeatedly ("Kingdom of God is within you"  "My kingdom is not of this world"  "They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain").  In light of Christ's repeated description of His kingdom as spiritual, we must view these passages in Isaiah as symbolic.  Otherwise we fall into the same mistake the Israelites did, looking for a physical Messiah to reign over an earthly kingdom.

Melanie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
  • Gender: Female
  • Psalms 52:8
Re: How Do We Understand Isaiah 65:17-25
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2010, 07:28:17 PM »
 This thread is also worth revisiting.  Particularly as it relates to a spiritual or symbolic meaning.

 Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 I have read this verse, heard many different interpretations explained in detail, but they all seem to be somewhat off. In other words, not really consistent or in harmony. There will be no more baby days, and old men that are full in their days? Anyone have any ideas about this verse? Thanks.

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]