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Author Topic: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders  (Read 557 times)

George

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 03:24:28 AM »
There is very little that is in the Bible text to support the theory that these 24 elders are the church. First of all, the saints are still on earth at the time John is having this vision. Second, they
 have been promised to be “delivered from the wrath to come” (I Thessalonians 1:10, 5:10). And we all know that had not begun yet.

Red

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 07:57:51 AM »
Guess you're friends with Tony Huh?
One does not even have to know Tony Warren to see the truth that the twenty-four elders are the REDEEMED out of every nation under heaven, of which salvation the elect angels desired to look into~angels though elected were not redeemed~ their election saved them from the fall of the other non-elect angels~a salvation of which was never provided for then, for Jesus Christ did not take upon him the nature of angels, but the seed of Abraham, which was flesh and blood.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 2:7-16~"Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Quote from: Paul
Romans 8:1-3~"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"
Angels were created spirits to minister unto those who shall be heirs of eternal salvation and will be "witnesses of"...........
Quote
Revelation 5:8-10~ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Kevin Wright

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 02:25:41 PM »
Excellent Tony!

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 05:09:01 PM »
Quote
As has been witnessed here already the context confirms who these elders are.

Rev 5:8-10
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty eldersfell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Mark,

James and Apostolic, so far, has avoided explaining Revelation 5:8-10 which clears proved their interpreation wrong about the 24 elders.  They are not "angel."  They are not "special class of angels."  Rather they are Elects from the old testament (12) and New Testament (12) together as (24) elders who has been redeemed from Earth and made kings. They are the messengers (aggelos) of God.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Mark

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 07:28:41 PM »
Guess you're friends with Tony Huh?
One does not even have to know Tony Warren to see the truth that the twenty-four elders are the REDEEMED out of every nation under heaven, of which salvation the elect angels desired to look into~angels though elected were not redeemed~ their election saved them from the fall of the other non-elect angels~a salvation of which was never provided for then, for Jesus Christ did not take upon him the nature of angels, but the seed of Abraham, which was flesh and blood.
The well oiled myth of fallen angels has already been put to the sword and found wanting(http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?action=post;quote=39384;topic=193.285;last_msg=39741), there are no non-elect angels but there are messengers called but not chosen (people) who are of the church and have left their first estate and are under condemnation.

2 Peter 2:4 (YLT)
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,
Jude 1:6 (YLT)
messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5,6

Big Ben

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Mark

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 09:35:25 PM »
Thanks Big Ben, must of copied of quote link. Cheers
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5,6

Red

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2020, 04:56:58 AM »
The well oiled myth of fallen angels has already been put to the sword and found wanting..... there are no non-elect angels but there are messengers called but not chosen (people) who are of the church and have left their first estate and are under condemnation.

2 Peter 2:4 (YLT)
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,
Jude 1:6 (YLT)
messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,

Greetings Mark~I will only say this concerning the fallen angels~In my understanding it has not been already put to the sword and found wanting~Consider this reply in that thread ( http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=193.270 Reply #277 on: March 09, 2018, 12:50:45 PM  ) I was the one that I had given to PHeart to consider when we spoke via email. Those points were never address, maybe an oversight, I do not know, yet for sure they were never address.

Not believing in angels which are spirits to me is closely akin to the Sadducces doctrine of denying spirits!
Quote from:  Mark on: Yesterday at 07:28:41 PM
there are no non-elect angels but there are messengers called but not chosen (people) who are of the church and have left their first estate and are under condemnation.
)thinker(

I'll stop so as not to hijack this good thread that is on going.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

George

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2020, 05:16:20 AM »
One does not even have to know Tony Warren to see the truth that the twenty-four elders are the REDEEMED out of every nation under heaven, of which salvation the elect angels desired to look into~angels though elected were not redeemed~ their election saved them from the fall of the other non-elect angels~a salvation of which was never provided for then

Oh here we go again Red. You're all over the place agreeing with no one on this forum while jumping in every conversation. No one knows what you believe in from minute to minute so I can't put any stock in anything you say. What elect angels and what non-elect angels are you referring to because like everyone else here, I don't read about elect and non-elect angels anywhere in the bible.

You just make these things up like you did in your fake Annihilation thread, which no one agreed with you on. Not the Reformed, not the Premillennialists, and not the Historicists. You tell everyone that you're for Trump and how he's a better choice, but then you say you disagree with Trump. One minute you claim he's not a christian, but then you say you don't judge whether anyone is a christian. You're all over the place with your hypocrisy.

Now you try and make like you agree with Tony warren, but Tony Warren doesn't agree with your elect, non-elect angels teachings at all. So again you're all over the place. Check out Tony's beliefs on the fallen angels of Revelation 12. They are one hundred percent opposed to your beliefs. So I wish you'd stop mentioning his name, and probably he does too.

Face facts, you don't agree with anyone here, you just jump on the latest thread or band wagon until someone shows you you're wrong. Then you disappear. Who said angels were elected but not redeemed? It wasn't Tony Warren, it wasn't me, and it wasn't the bible. Yet you claim to agree with Tony against me about something that Tony doesn't agree with you about. Are you kidding me?  )S_Confused(

You are a very confusing man and God is not the author of confusion.


George

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2020, 05:20:05 AM »
I'll stop so as not to hijack this good thread that is on going.

It may have been good to some, that is until you stepped in agreeing with Tony who disagrees with you, who disagrees with Tony. Confusing as usual with you.

Red

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2020, 06:26:32 AM »
It may have been good to some, that is until you stepped in agreeing with Tony who disagrees with you, who disagrees with Tony. Confusing as usual with you.
While I DO love and believe much of what Tony teaches, I just disagree with some. It is not a sin to practice Acts 17:11;  and 1st John 4:1; but what every sincere child of God should do, as you must agree.
Quote from: George on: Today at 05:16:20 AM
while jumping in every conversation
Sir, not many, but a few from time to time. I mostly read and ponder, but speak very little.
Quote from: George on: Today at 05:16:20 AM
What elect angels and what non-elect angels are you referring to because like everyone else here, I don't read about elect and non-elect angels anywhere in the bible.
Strange that you would ask.....
Quote from: Paul
1st Timothy 5:21~"I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."
God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, ALL from heaven watching/observing our works of righteousness. So many other scripture, but I'll stop and allow Tony or someone to move these few posts to their proper place.

Just one more thought~you said:
Quote from: George on: Today at 05:16:20 AM
You are a very confusing man and God is not the author of confusion.
You are right God is not the author of confusion, and you truly know very little about me, but to test just who is confuse, I would love to debate you or any person here on John 3:1-16 where the Lord Jesus discuss the most important subject in all of the word of God~being born of the Spirit of God, miss this truth and one can surely be wrong on other important bible doctrine.

George, if I start it, would you come and contribute in the spirit of meekness, without being overly judgemental?
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

George

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2020, 02:09:28 PM »
George, if I start it, would you come and contribute in the spirit of meekness, without being overly judgemental?

Only if you promise it's not going to be like your annihilation thread where you went "SILENT" after all your arguments were shut down by biblical facts.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2020, 04:15:05 PM »
Quote from: Fred
God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, ALL from heaven watching/observing our works of righteousness.

According to context:


1 Timothy 5:19-24 KJV
[19]  Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
[20]  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
[21] I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
[22]  Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.
[23]  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
[24] Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.


First, exactly who are the elect angels, Red?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

bloodstone

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2020, 05:11:44 PM »
First, exactly who are the elect angels, Red?

 )goodquestion( erik. I wonder if he'll answer it simply or do his usual tap dance with out of context scriptures?

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who Are The Twenty Four Elders
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2020, 06:31:45 PM »
Yeah, I know Bloodstone. Itll be interesting how Red answer it honestly or will he explains it away as usual to fit his interpretation. 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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