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Author Topic: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21  (Read 5979 times)

Reformer

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2020, 12:06:06 PM »
Dr. Walvoord was the Premier Scholar in Prophecy and respected around the world by everyone. Before you start believing the basement prophets, check out their credentials to be scholars in the first place.

What an extremely ignorant and uninformed thing to say. It only proves what we already knew, which is that you get your doctrines from the acclaimed books of men and not from the word of God. The truth of doctrine comes from God, not from men. Tony Warren knows that, preaches that, and lives by that. Letters of higher learning meant nothing to Christ, but everything to the reprobates.

Joh 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Tony's doctrines are not His, they come from the Bible, which is the absolute word of God. They are and not from politicians, the televangelists or the vaunted theologians pushing the Dispensational falsehoods that you so admire. Read Tony Warren's response to such beliefs in credentials. It's Biblically sound.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2938.msg40101#msg40101


Mila Ostrovsky

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2020, 03:36:34 PM »
Read Tony Warren's response to such beliefs in credentials. It's Biblically sound.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2938.msg40101#msg40101

And Christians shouldn't stop there. They should read the whole thread, which I think should be required reading for anyone interested in the subtle intricacies of predestination. Everyone does an excellent job of showing the answers to some of its complexities. Recommended!

R. Anspach

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2020, 05:50:42 PM »
This is the fate of the fallen church, to be moved out of its place. i.e., as symbolized also in Revelation chapter 6:

Revelation 6:14
  • "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places/color."

Hi everyone. Every? Are there no churches left at this time?
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Galatians 3:11

Erik Diamond

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2020, 08:35:51 PM »
Quote
Hi everyone. Every? Are there no churches left at this time?

I think EVERY mountain and island that moved out of their places God talked about are all the unfaithful churches.  Not the faithful church (if any) or the Elect who has departed out of unfaithful church. That is how I undersatnd, right Tony?   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2020, 08:09:50 AM »
>>>
Hi everyone. Every? Are there no churches left at this time?

I think EVERY mountain and island that moved out of their places God talked about are all the unfaithful churches.  Not the faithful church (if any) or the Elect who has departed out of unfaithful church. That is how I undersatnd, right Tony?
<<<

Hi  R. Anspach and Erik,
  "My belief" is that it refers to "all" corporate churches because at this time the corporate body will all be unfaithful. I believe that this is a reproduction or similitude of the fall of corporate Israel when Christ was crucified and only a remnant was saved. These two times mirror each other almost perfectly. We see the same apostasy, the same leadership failings of the Pastors, the same legalism of the Scribes and Pharisees, the same hypocrisy of God's people, the same language used, and the same abominations that lead to the congregation's desolation. Sadly, we also have haters posing as professing Christians who look down upon Israel thinking that they are somehow better, just as Israel thought it was better than the Gentiles. The fact is, we are not better than anyone, least of all Israel, and lest we forget "we stand by grace." God made it clear to the corporate church from the start that it could be cut off in the exact same way that old corporate Israel was cut off. In the warnings of Revelation chapter 2, but also in other places like Romans.

Romans 11:20-22
  • "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
  • For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
  • Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

There is no reason for professing Christian to show contempt for national Israel believing that they are somehow better because they believe in Christ.  God is warning that it was because of unbelief that they were cut off, and that the New Covenant corporate congregation could be cut off in the exact same way. And I believe it will be.

Revelation 18:21
  • "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

The whole great city that was once precious will fall. That's the corporate body. We see that national Israel was cut off as a corporate body where the whole nation was moved out of its place as a representation of the true Israel, which is Christ (Matthew 21:43 ). I believe that this language of all islands being moved out of their place is a reproduction of the fall of corporate Israel when Christ was crucified. Indeed, God makes this connection plain in his language of His witnesses being killed. And note that "all" of His witnesses (representing the true believers) were killed in the corporate church, not some. This necessarily means that there was "NO" true witness left in the corporate body, and this is why there was universal rejoicing in "that great city" which represents that corporate body.

Revelation 11:7-8
  • "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
  • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

That great city represents the corporate church, and note that God makes the connection with the time of Christ's death plain in His deliberate language of His witnesses being killed "where our Lord was crucified," that had become spiritually as Sodom and symbolically as Egypt. It isn't that some were killed and others carried on in that great city, the Lord's witnesses, prophets, Olive trees, were all killed where that whole city rejoiced over their dead bodies there. And the result was that that once great city was judged of God. i.e., Babylon is fallen.

So yes, I think EVERY mountain and island that was moved out of their place represents all "corporate churches," while the true indivisible church representing believers are called out those churches as Israel was called out of Egypt. Selah. This is not the faithful church (faithful individuals) that fall, but the corporate church led by the adversarial spirit Satan. Hope that clarifies my position.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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