[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying  (Read 1651 times)

Maurice

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2019, 02:39:14 PM »
OK big guy. How is it that “all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone” (Revelation 21:8 ), and yet Rahab was commended twice by New Testament writers?

In other words, no one answered Susan's question where it was taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin. I wonder why?


Christians!   )S_Confused(

 Reformed Christians can lie now? Why is their such hypocrisy in the church? Don't feel bad Dan, no one answered my questions either. Why are you even a Christian?

Dan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • Dan the Man
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2019, 08:20:43 AM »
In other words, no one answered Susan's question where it was taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin. I wonder why?


Christians!   )S_Confused(

 Reformed Christians can lie now?

That Reformed Christian pastors teach this is not a surprise to me. They also teach that we are robots predestinated to evil.   ]ThUmBsDoWn[

Oneil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2019, 03:34:00 PM »
Not a surprise to me either.  ...and I'm Reformed.

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2296
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2019, 06:17:10 AM »
>>>
In other words, no one answered Susan's question where it was taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin. I wonder why?
<<<

Actually it's not their job to answer for other professing Christians. If you want to know why a professing Christian teaches something, your best bet is to ask them.

As for Susan's general question, not only are there many Christians who attempt to justify the lies of people that are recorded in Scripture, but there are also many who creatively contend that Rahab did not really lie in Joshua chapter 2. But the "FACT" is, she lied! Anyone being honest with themselves and reading the Scripture text in a straightforward and just way would have to confess that she did lie. That includes Christians of the Reformed tradition. She both lied, and her lying was a sin. There are no righteous lies, no honorable mendacity, no upright deceitfulness and no virtuous false witnesses. God is consistent in His hatred and condemnation of all lies, deceit and dishonesty. It is written:

Proverbs 12:22[
  • "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight."
John 3:21
  • "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Whether me, you, the Pope, Rahab, you Minister, or anyone else lies, this is an abomination to a Holy God, and there are no exceptions. Rhab was elect, and therefore her lie was paid for in the broken body of Christ, just as for all of our lies and other sins. There is no need for Christians to attempt to justify her lie or to "pretend" that it wasn't a sin because to do so is to dabble in absurdity. It is not to understand the true holiness and perfection of God. All unrighteousness is abhorrent to Him. The sin of the righteous as well as the sin of the unrighteous. God is holy and our desire is to be Holy also. But we will never be sinless (except in Christ) so long as we are on this earth.

But Christ is. Can you imagine Christ lying in any circumstance? The very thought is abhorrent.

Titus 1:2
  • "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

God cannot lie because He is Holy and holiness requires that He not lie. We are to be Holy, even as Christ is Holy. But it is only in the Spirit of Christ that dwells within us that we are holy, because He has paid for every single one of our sins. Not because we are perfect creatures that never sin or never will sin.

So simply because the Scriptures commends Rahab for her faith does not mean that God condones everything that she (or any Prophet) did. Did... Just because someone is elect doesn't mean that they will very literally never commit a sin again, except in the blood washed body of Christ.

Leviticus 19:11
  • "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another."

Sinlessness is our desire. But Lot sinned, Solomon sinned, David sinned, Peter sinned--we don't need to make up excuses to justify their sins to prove they were people of faith. They were. But they weren't perfect, they had feet of clay like the rest of us. Nevertheless, His grace was sufficient for them all.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2296
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2019, 06:36:48 AM »
>>>
OK big guy. How is it that “all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone” (Revelation 21:8 ), and yet Rahab was commended twice by New Testament writers?
<<<

Because she became a child of the congregation of Israel and a repentant liar in God's eyes. All of us were sinners at one time or another. And all unsaved men are liars, whether they lie about spies, their actions, feelings, or just lie to themselves. Not one single man or woman goes through life without coming under the curse of being a liar. But just like Rahab, they can find forgiveness in the faith of the blood of Jesus Christ. Not just Rahab, there is no one who can stand the test of righteousness before God.

1st Corinthians 6:9-11
  • "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
  • Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
  • And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

We all started out just like Rahab did. No justification of our lies or our other sins is required for us to be children of faith. Neither Rahab's.


>>>
In other words, no one answered Susan's question where it was taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin. I wonder why?
<<<

Yes, there are multiple Reformed ministers hat teach that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin, however, this is Biblically invalidated. Indeed, it is contradictory to the teachings of Christianity. Your problem seems to be that you take anything that a particular Reformed Minister says "as if" it is Christian doctrine. No, it is that Minister's opinion of what is Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine is clearly stated on the pages of Scripture, it's not what certain ministers think Scripture "implies." 


>>>
Christians!   )S_Confused(

 Reformed Christians can lie now?
<<<

No. But they can be incorrect in their teachings since no man is perfect. God's teachings are perfect, but man tends to believe that he can "read into" the Scriptures something he "thinks" it implies. That's not Christian doctrine, that is speculation and supposition.


>>>
Why is their such hypocrisy in the church?

There is hypocrisy in the world, why would you think it wouldn't sometimes find its way into the church? You could ask that same question about any group. And you'd get the same answer from me. Because the heart of mnan is desperately wicked.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

George

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2019, 12:40:38 PM »
So R.C. Sproul is a false teacher? Is that what you are saying? Let's be clear, OK.

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2507
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2019, 01:33:48 PM »
Quote
So R.C. Sproul is a false teacher? Is that what you are saying? Let's be clear, OK.

Hummm... so what do you know about R.C. Sproul anyway?  The subject is about whether lying is a sin, not false teachers.

So you want to be clear here?  Okay, here is the question for you:  do you believe lying is not a sin? Yes or no? If so, can you prove that with Scripture yourself?  Don't bring in R.C. Sproul "as if" you pretend to know Scripture about lying, Selah!   

Tony was clear and accurate that all forms of lies, deceit and dishonesty, even by the Elect, are sins in God's eyes. He even quoted Scripture to prove his position, then where are YOURS if you don't agree. 

Didn't you read what Tony said? Christian doctrine is clearly stated on the pages of Scripture, it's not what certain ministers think Scripture "implies."  Do you agree with this or not?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Rose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • De 8:8 "A land of oil olive, and honey.."
Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2019, 06:12:00 AM »
So R.C. Sproul is a false teacher? Is that what you are saying? Let's be clear, OK.

I believe that R.C. Sproul is a good Christian teacher and sometimes lies are done with good intent like with Rahab. And that's not sinful so I agree with Sproul. Why would she be commended for what she did if it was sin? She wouldn't. And so I believe that sometimes a lie can be virtuous and not a sin.
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]