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Author Topic: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying  (Read 2656 times)

bloodstone

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2019, 09:07:13 AM »
Thanks but that's not the original writing of Richard Baxter, it's an audio sermon. I'm looking for the original writing by Richard Baxter from which this audio was drawn. But thanks for responding.

Bloodstone, is it found in Richard Baxter's "Directions for the government of the tongue?"

Thanks, but that's not the sermon. Appreciate the information though.

bloodstone

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2019, 09:08:43 AM »
Thanks but that's not the original writing of Richard Baxter, it's an audio sermon. I'm looking for the original writing by Richard Baxter from which this audio was drawn. But thanks for responding.

Is this what you're looking for?

LYING

Baxter, Richard. Directions for the government of the tongue – [pdf, 106 pp.]
From his Christian Directory, part 1.

Directions for the Government of the Tongue

http://digitalpuritan.net/richard-baxter/

Thanks for the effort, but this is not the sermon on lying. I'll keep looking, but maybe it's not online anymore.

Halle

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2019, 09:51:25 AM »
Your desire is carnal in that you believe falsely that you can fix the world, make the nations Christian, destroy the liberals, arm the Pastors for the safety of the church, minimize the scriptures, excuse lies when it is expedient, ignore the truth when it is inexpedient, and so on and so forth. You all seem of the same mind and the same mentality of humanism. No trust in God, but plenty of trust in yourself and your so-called God Blessed leaders.

My Faithful Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. This seems so appropriate in our day or any day where a Christian understanding of lies is just so warped by bias and partisanship.


The Evil Tongue
by Thomas Watson

The evil tongue is the earthly tongue; men talk of nothing but the world, as if all their hopes were here, and they looked for an earthly eternity; these have earthly minds, "He that is of the earth, speaketh of the earth" (John 3:31). 

The evil tongue is the lying tongue, "Lie not to one another" (Colossians 3:9). The Cretians were noted for liars (Titus 1:12). It becomes not Christians to be Cretians. Nothing is more contrary to God than a lie; it shows much irreligion; lying is a sin that does not go alone, it ushers in other sins. Absalom told his father a lie, that he was going to pay his vow at Hebron (2 Samuel 15:7), and this lie was a preface to his treason. Lying is such a sin, as takes away all society and converse with men; how can you have converse with him, that you cannot trust a word he says? It is a sin so sordid, that when the liar is convicted, he is ashamed. God's children have this character, they are children that will not lie" (Isaiah 63:8 ), the new nature in them will not suffer them. The liar is near akin to the devil, and the devil will shortly claim kindred with him, "The devil is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44). He seduced our first parents by a lie (Genesis 3:4). How does this sin incense God? He struck Ananias dead for telling a lie (Acts 5:5). The furnace of hell is heated to throw liars into, "Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" (Revelation 22:15).

The seducing tongue is an evil tongue. The tongue that by fine rhetoric decoys men into error, "By fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Romans 16:18). A fair tongue can put off bad wares; error is bad ware, which a seducing tongue can put off. The deceit lies in this; a smooth tongue can make error look so like truth, that you can hardly know them asunder; as thus, in justification, Christ bears infinite love to justified persons; this is a glorious truth, but under this notion, the Antinomian presseth libertinism; believers may take more liberty to sin, and God sees no sin in them. Thus, by crying up justification, they destroy sanctification; here is the seducing tongue; and error is as dangerous as vice; one may die by poison as well as by a pistol.

  The evil tongue is the unjust tongue; that will for a piece of money open its mouth in a bad cause. The lawyer has a tongue that will be sold for money, "How long will you judge unjustly?" (Psalm 82:2). Some will plead any cause, though never so bad: though it appears the deeds are forged, the witnesses bribed, there's perjury in the cause; yet they will plead it. When a man pleads a bad cause he is the devil's attorney: as God hates false weights, so a false cause. Better to be born dumb, than open one's mouth in a bad cause. O, what times are we in! Many pervert justice, and, for enriching themselves, overthrow a righteous cause; these are worse than they that rob, for they fleece men's estates under a colour of law, and ruin them under a pretence of doing justice.

Excerpts by Thomas Watson

Sojourner

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2019, 11:01:51 AM »
 )Bible-Red(   &TY

David Knoles

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2019, 04:03:58 AM »
So Reformer, Erik and Philly,
Was Puritan John Winthrop wrong when he set sail to America with a vision of a 'City Upon A Hill'? I mean since you claim christians are in sin when they work for a righteous America. Was John Winthrop in sin? That's my question. Any of you Reformed bible thumping christians care to answer?


Manuel

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2019, 09:23:18 AM »
My Faithful Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. This seems so appropriate in our day or any day where a Christian understanding of lies is just so warped by bias and partisanship.

The Evil Tongue
by Thomas Watson


 Excelente Halle, Gracias!

Susan

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2019, 12:26:55 PM »
I have also heard it taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is not sin. They also brought up Rahab the Harlot. Is this true?

 )bump( No one?   )anyone(

Kenneth White

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2019, 03:06:24 PM »
First of all Susan, it would be nice to know what Reformed Christian said lies were sometimes justified. I have never heard that.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Susan

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2019, 03:11:08 AM »
First of all Susan, it would be nice to know what Reformed Christian said lies were sometimes justified. I have never heard that.

R.C. Sproul for one, Sam Storms for another, among others. Rahab was never condemned for lying.


Philly Dawg

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2019, 08:42:48 AM »
Susan. Lying is always wrong. Even for Republican Christians who justify it.

 Proverbs 13:5 "A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame."

A Puritan heart does not justify lying. A lie is an offense to God. Just because Rahab was never condemned for lying doesn't mean that God approved her lie. God absolutely hates a liar! It was her faith that saved her from the wrath of God for her lies, not her lie that proved her faith.

  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Susan

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2019, 10:51:07 AM »
That's what I always believed as well. Lying is always wrong, so I thought it was very strange, but Dr. Sproul argues in his article that with regards to Rahab and also the midwives in Egypt, righteousness required deceit. Those are his words and I just need clarification.

Rich Aikers

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2019, 12:30:46 PM »
Watch again the first video in this thread. Satan is the Father of lies and lies can never be justified. For the life of me I never could figure out why some Christian Ministers as well as laymen always seem to attempt to justify lying. Whether it's about taxes, Rahab, what they call a white lie or just plain deceit.

Just because God doesn't strike someone down dead, take away their salvation or single them out for condemnation doesn't mean that God approves of their actions. The thinking of some people seems to be that if it's done for a good cause, it's a righteous act. That is bad thinking on their part. There are articles here that speak to your question. Here's one quote from Prof. Herman Hanko that explains both Rahab and the midwives.

  • "There is agreement among Christians that ordinarily lying is forbidden by the ninth commandment and by other injunctions in Scripture such as Ephesians 4:15. The question is: Are there circumstances in which Scripture permits lying?

    While the questioner, quoted above, says that Scripture condones the lie of Rahab, this is not really true. Nowhere in Scripture does one find the approval of any lying at all. Exodus 1 does not approve the lie of the midwives; it expresses approval of their fear of God (17, 20-21). Hebrews 11:31 does not express approval of Rahab’s lie, but commends her faith by which she received the spies in peace. That is, because of her faith that God was with Israel and that Israel would ultimately prevail against Jericho, she cooperated with the spies rather than turning them over to the police. Nor does the narrative in Joshua 2 say one word of approval of Rahab’s lie.

    The same is true of James 2. Rahab is said to be justified because she received the spies and sent them out another way. By this act she cast her lot with God’s people in whom lived the hope of the coming of the Messiah.

    I do not know of a single place in Scripture where a lie is condoned. In other words, that Scripture approves of the lie of Rahab (and the lie of the midwives) is an argument from silence
    ." - Prof. Herman Hanko

Link to Article: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/rahab_the_harlot.shtml


Kenneth White

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2019, 02:50:43 PM »
R.C. Sproul doesn't surprise me since he's incorrect about a lot of things and often on the wrong side of what I believe is Biblical. But I am surprised by Sam Storm, since he's usually a careful, conscientious bible believing preacher who I think takes God's word seriously. But that's why we have the bible. So we can check out what anyone says with what we see ourselves in scripture.

But whatever these ministers say, you have to know that they are wrong. God is pure, holy, cannot lie, be dishonest or be deceitful. We pattern our life after Him. Lying is always against the nature of God and so always wrong for his children who have taken on his nature.

 1 Peter 1:16
    "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."

Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Dan

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2019, 05:52:50 AM »
OK big guy. How is it that “all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone” (Revelation 21:8 ), and yet Rahab was commended twice by New Testament writers?

In other words, no one answered Susan's question where it was taught by multiple Reformed Pastors that Lying in certain instances is NOT sin. I wonder why?

Dan

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Re: Puritan Heart Sermon On Lying
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2019, 05:55:15 AM »
Excelente Halle, Gracias!

We speak English in America. If you want to speak spanish, we can send you back  )smileyBounce(

 


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