author=Erik Diamond link=topic=3414.msg40988#msg40988 date=1546971665]
The scriptures teach God became a mortal man in all things as His Brethren. You believe the teaching of the religions of the land which preach He really didn't become a man, but remained an immortal God.
Of all 38 posts you have made here so far, you were emphasizing that Jesus Christ was merely a man, not a God. So let test this with the rest of Scripture to find out where you stand on other subject concerning Jesus Christ.
Archangel Michael
Daniel 10:13- "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."
- "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince."
- "And at that time shall Michael stand up, The Great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
- And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
- Jude 1:9
- "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
Do you believe that Archangel Michael is Jesus Christ with the name Michael in Hebrew origin [miykael] which means "He who is assuredly God"?
Daniel's prince is Jesus Christ. He is not any other man, not any other angel (messenger). Michael, is He who is assuredly God, would be the only one who would help in this time of need. This comes from Jesus Christ Himself! He is the archangel himself because He is the Lord, as it is written:
Thank you for the scriptures and the question. First, I don't believe I ever used the term "Mere man". This term has been attributed to me, but I never said it in all 38 posts. According to the Scriptures God the Father sent His Son, The God of Abraham, the Creator of All things, to earth as a Man. This same God the Father sent angels to protect Him from evil men when He was a child. Why would evil men want to harm this Child?
Rev. 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which
brought forth the man child. So yes The scriptures say He was a Man in all things as His Brethren, but certainly not a "mere man". God sent His Son on a mission, to come to earth as a man become the unblemished Lamb. Jesus finished His Work.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
The Christ, the God of Abraham may have been helped by the Archangel Michael. But if you read all of Daniel 10, and not just verse 13, it kind of answers this question for me. Let me show you..
Dan. 10:4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hiddekel; 5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold
a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: 6 His body also was like the beryl,
and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass,
and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.So I believe in this vision, this was the Word of God, the Christ, before He came to earth in the Flesh. Do you agree that this is the Christ, God the Son who created all things, which was Speaking to Daniel? I have noticed many on this forum like to insult and ask questions, but few are willing to answer them. So please allow the common curtsey of any discussion and please answer the questions I pose to you as I answer the questions you pose to me.
7 And I Daniel alone
saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. 9
Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words,
then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground. 10 And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee
am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
So in my understanding, the Christ, the Rock, was sent by His Father to speak with Daniel in a vision. You may say this was God the father, but then who SENT HIM? So the face of Lightning was the God of Abraham. Are we still in agreement?
12
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God,
thy words were heard,
and I am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia
withstood me one and twenty days:
So the "Me" spoken of here is who? The Christ, Yes? The Rock in His Glory, yes? So the Prince of Persia withstood the Christ 21 days in this vision. Are we still in agreement?
but, lo, Michael,
one of the chief princes,
came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14
Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days:
for yet the vision is for many days.
Doesn't this say Michael helped "ME"? Isn't the "ME" the Christ?
Matt. 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down:
for it is written, He (God the Father)
shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matt. 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold,
angels came and ministered unto him.
I can imagine God the Father would send His Chief Angel to administer after His Own son, Wouldn't you? How many Christ's are there. Michael was only one of the "Chief Princes".
Matt. 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matt. 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven
their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
And we already know satan was out to get the Christ and those who believe on Him. And we know God has Angels dedicated to administer to Him and His Little ones. And we know this same God sent Angels to administer to Jesus the man on more than one occasion. And in this vision that you posted, Michael helped the Christ. Michael wasn't the Christ.
But lets examine all your evidence that Jesus is the Archangel Michael.
1st Thessalonians 4:16[/font][/li]
[/list]- "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
- Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
- "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
- And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
- Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
- And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
- Jesus Christ is Archangel who will shout His Voice that all in the graves shall hear HIS voice. Period.
Man Child
Well for starters this scriptures says the Risen Christ come "with the voice of the Archangel" which agrees with Daniel who said "and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.". Jesus also said;
Matt. 13:41 The Son of man
shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
49 So shall it be at the end of the world:
the angels shall come forth,
and sever the wicked from among the just,
Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels:
the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place. (Among them, not one of them)
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed,
when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. (Not one of His Holy Angels)
1 Tim. 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee
before God, and
the Lord Jesus Christ,
and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
Heb. 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (Michael?)
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let
all the angels of God
worship Him .
Heb. 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time,
Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Revelation 12:1-8 KJV
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
First, when was this war fought. When did satan get cast down from heaven never to return? In your religion, was it satan who convinced Eve of a Lie? That was a long time before Jesus walked the earth as a man. When Jesus was a man walking on earth, did He rule over the Nations with a Rod of Iron?
Of course not Erik. He was a man. As it is written "He was To rule" over the nations, but as a man He was the Lamb for the Slaughter. When He comes back, He won't be pushed around by those who call Him Lord, Lord, but don't do what He says.
I will number your question to make it easier to track them.
(#1) Tell me, who is this man child? Jesus Christ? (#2) Then who is this woman who gave birth? (#3) What happened to Jesus Christ when he ascended unto God and His Throne? Wasn't He God also? (#4) Notice Michael again in verse 7, isn't it Christ as well?
Let hear your position on these based on your doctrine that Jesus Christ was only merely a man.[/li]
[/list]
#1. Yes, Jesus the Christ, the Rock, the Word of God which became Flesh.
#2. A virgin so it was fulfilled that which was written in the Scriptures. Is. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat,
that he may know to refuse the evil,
and choose the good.
#3. Yes, As it is written. Ps. 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
therefore (or "Because of this") God, (The Father in Heaven) thy God,
hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
#4. No, Michael is not the Christ. Michael serves and Worships and administers to the Christ.
Ps. 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Heb. 2:5 For unto the angels hath
he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Ps. 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11
For he shall give his angels charge over thee,
to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath
in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,
and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had
by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made
so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained
a more excellent name than they.
5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,
And let all the angels of God worship him. (Even Michael)
7
And of the angels he saith,
Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
So not by my word's Erik, or the words of the Pope, or of some other famous religious man, but by EVERY WORD of God, through Study of His Word's, it can be said for absolute Certain, and an Absolute Biblical Fact, that Michael the Archangel is not Jesus the Risen Christ.
At least according to His Word's. So Now what. Will you join the others in insults and ridicule, call for my being banned from discussions here. Will you call me a liar and hate me because the scriptures prove you believed in something that wasn't true according to scriptures?
Or will you and I grow together in the knowledge of our Lord, in the unity of Faith.