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Author Topic: Did Jesus have victory over sin as a flesh and blood man, or as an immortal God  (Read 4687 times)

Studyman

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Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I was recently rebuked by some religious folks for suggesting Jesus was God who became a man and dwelt among us. They argued that Jesus overcame sin and satan as a God, and not as a man like you and I. They sited the Word "Emmanuel" as their support for this teaching.

I was surprised at how many really didn't believe that Jesus overcame sin as a man. Ex. 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Heb. 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Is this teaching that Jesus didn't overcome satan as a man, but God a new teaching, or am I missing something?







Pilgrim

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He overcame sin as a God Man. Not God and not man, but the God Man. He had to be God because no man could overcome sin, and he had to be man because it was for man that he had to overcome sin. So you are both right and you are both wrong. He was God come to earth in the flesh of man to overcome the sins of man. He had to be man and he had to be god, without either one he couldn't be a substitute for man. If it were true he was only God then there would have been no need for a Savior. God could have just snapped his fingers and we would have been forgiven. But that would violate the law. God never violates his law. The wages of sin is death. A man had to die and a God had to go through death as substitution man, in order for man to live.
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

R. Anspach

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As Christ, the Savior, you can't separate the man from Christ, or Christ from the man.
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Galatians 3:11

R. Anspach

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If it were true he was only God then there would have been no need for a Savior. God could have just snapped his fingers and we would have been forgiven.

Exactly. Why would God come to earth as man if man had nothing to do with the propitiation of the sins of man? Without the flesh of man, there's no sin since the God Christ, without the sins of man, never had sin. The sins of man, our sins, had to be in the flesh of the man Christ in order for them to be paid for.

II Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Galatians 3:11

Studyman

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Ex. 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Duet. 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I appreciate the replies. I think this is a good conversation to have. I know what is generally accepted. I just want to make sure my belief aligns with the Word of God. I would appreciate any reference to scriptures which say Jesus "overcame" because He had powers no other human has access to.

Robert Powell

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Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God
 
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes   
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Colossians 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes   
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

John 1:14 ESV / 22 helpful votes   
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 ESV / 19 helpful votes   
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

2 John 1:7 ESV / 17 helpful votes   
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

John 1:1 ESV / 14 helpful votes   
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Romans 1:1-32 ESV / 11 helpful votes   
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, ...

Colossians 1:19 ESV / 10 helpful votes   
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 9 helpful votes   
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

Hebrews 4:15 ESV / 9 helpful votes   
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

John 20:28 ESV / 9 helpful votes   
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 14:6 ESV / 9 helpful votes   
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Hebrews 1:8 ESV / 8 helpful votes   
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

John 1:1-51 ESV / 8 helpful votes   
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. ...

Hebrews 1:3 ESV / 7 helpful votes   
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Titus 2:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes   
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Philippians 2:7 ESV / 7 helpful votes   
But made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

1 Peter 2:4-6 ESV / 6 helpful votes   
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Ephesians 2:1-22 ESV / 6 helpful votes   
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ...

John 19:28 ESV / 6 helpful votes   
After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.”

John 17:5 ESV / 6 helpful votes   
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Revelation 2:8 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

1 John 4:2 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

2 Peter 1:1 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 2:14 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Ephesians 4:1-32 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, ...

1 Corinthians 12:1-31 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; ...

1 Corinthians 3:16 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

John 1:1-3 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Luke 2:52 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

Matthew 26:1-75 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
When Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said to his disciples, “You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man will be delivered up to be crucified.” Then the chief priests and the elders of the people gathered in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and plotted together in order to arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him. But they said, “Not during the feast, lest there be an uproar among the people.” ...

Matthew 1:23 ESV / 5 helpful votes   
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

1 Peter 2:24 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Galatians 6:1-18 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. ...

Galatians 4:4 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

Galatians 4:1-31 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. ...

Galatians 2:1-21 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. ...

1 Corinthians 14:24-25 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

1 Corinthians 6:19 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

Romans 9:1-33 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. ...

Romans 8:3 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Acts 12:1-25 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
About that time Herod the king laid violent hands on some who belonged to the church. He killed James the brother of John with the sword, and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. This was during the days of Unleavened Bread. And when he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him over to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out to the people. So Peter was kept in prison, but earnest prayer for him was made to God by the church. ...

Acts 2:24 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.

John 10:30-33 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

John 4:6 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Jacob's well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour.

John 2:19 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Luke 4:8 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”

Mark 14:58 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
“We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’”

Matthew 28:20 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Matthew 17:1-5 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.”

Matthew 16:18 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 4:2 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.

Matthew 1:1-25 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram, and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, ...

Micah 7:1-20 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Woe is me! For I have become as when the summer fruit has been gathered, as when the grapes have been gleaned: there is no cluster to eat, no first-ripe fig that my soul desires. The godly has perished from the earth, and there is no one upright among mankind; they all lie in wait for blood, and each hunts the other with a net. Their hands are on what is evil, to do it well; the prince and the judge ask for a bribe, and the great man utters the evil desire of his soul; thus they weave it together. The best of them is like a brier, the most upright of them a thorn hedge. The day of your watchmen, of your punishment, has come; now their confusion is at hand. Put no trust in a neighbor; have no confidence in a friend; guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your arms; ...

Isaiah 53:1-12 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. ...

Isaiah 28:20 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
For the bed is too short to stretch oneself on, and the covering too narrow to wrap oneself in.

Song of Solomon 3:6-5:1 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
What is that coming up from the wilderness like columns of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all the fragrant powders of a merchant? Behold, it is the litter of Solomon! Around it are sixty mighty men, some of the mighty men of Israel, all of them wearing swords and expert in war, each with his sword at his thigh, against terror by night. King Solomon made himself a carriage from the wood of Lebanon. He made its posts of silver, its back of gold, its seat of purple; its interior was inlaid with love by the daughters of Jerusalem. ...

Proverbs 8:1-36 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Does not wisdom call? Does not understanding raise her voice? On the heights beside the way, at the crossroads she takes her stand; beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud: “To you, O men, I call, and my cry is to the children of man. O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense. ...

Psalm 44:1-26 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
To the choirmaster. A Maskil of the Sons of Korah. O God, we have heard with our ears, our fathers have told us, what deeds you performed in their days, in the days of old: you with your own hand drove out the nations, but them you planted; you afflicted the peoples, but them you set free; for not by their own sword did they win the land, nor did their own arm save them, but your right hand and your arm, and the light of your face, for you delighted in them. You are my King, O God; ordain salvation for Jacob! Through you we push down our foes; through your name we tread down those who rise up against us. ...

Judges 1:1-2:23 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
After the death of Joshua, the people of Israel inquired of the Lord, “Who shall go up first for us against the Canaanites, to fight against them?” The Lord said, “Judah shall go up; behold, I have given the land into his hand.” And Judah said to Simeon his brother, “Come up with me into the territory allotted to me, that we may fight against the Canaanites. And I likewise will go with you into the territory allotted to you.” So Simeon went with him. Then Judah went up and the Lord gave the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand, and they defeated 10,000 of them at Bezek. They found Adoni-bezek at Bezek and fought against him and defeated the Canaanites and the Perizzites. ...

Exodus 4:1-31 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Then Moses answered, “But behold, they will not believe me or listen to my voice, for they will say, ‘The Lord did not appear to you.’” The Lord said to him, “What is that in your hand?” He said, “A staff.” And he said, “Throw it on the ground.” So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent, and Moses ran from it. But the Lord said to Moses, “Put out your hand and catch it by the tail”—so he put out his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand— “that they may believe that the Lord, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.” ...

Exodus 1:1-2:25 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
These are the names of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each with his household: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, Dan and Naphtali, Gad and Asher. All the descendants of Jacob were seventy persons; Joseph was already in Egypt. ...

Genesis 3:1-24 ESV / 4 helpful votes   
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” ...

Revelation 22:13 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Revelation 3:14 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

Revelation 1:18 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Revelation 1:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 1:1-20 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood ...

1 John 5:20 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

1 John 1:1 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—

Hebrews 13:1-25 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Let brotherly love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body. Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” ...

Hebrews 7:3 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.

Hebrews 2:17 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Titus 2:1-15 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. ...

2 Thessalonians 2:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Colossians 1:16 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Philippians 2:6-7 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Philippians 2:5-7 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Ephesians 2:20 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Ephesians 2:19-22 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, ...

1 Corinthians 15:3 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,

Romans 6:23 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 21:17 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

John 10:30 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
I and the Father are one.”

John 5:23 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

John 5:1-47 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed. One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?” ...

John 1:18 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Luke 24:39 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Luke 2:11 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Luke 2:7 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

Luke 1:35 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Mark 8:33 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

Matthew 14:33 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 4:10 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Isaiah 66:1 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?

Isaiah 57:15 ESV / 3 helpful votes   
For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.

Revelation 1:17-18 ESV / 2 helpful votes   
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.


aquatic

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 I would appreciate any reference to scriptures which say Jesus "overcame" because He had powers no other human has access to.

You already mentioned one verse: Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

But I think Rev 12:11 answers your question

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

They overcame by the blood of the Lamb. No human has the power within themselves  to overcome sin. The only way to access it is thru the blood of Christ. So Christ has the power that no other man has.

I think it’s pretty clear.  Hope that helps.

Reformer

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Exactly. Why would God come to earth as man if man had nothing to do with the propitiation of the sins of man? Without the flesh of man, there's no sin since the God Christ, without the sins of man, never had sin. The sins of man, our sins, had to be in the flesh of the man Christ in order for them to be paid for.

II Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

 )iagree( God cannot be made sin, but God born as a man can and was. And without the resurrection of Christ from death, in the flesh (John 20:25-27), and without those sins, we are all yet dead in our sins. That's why Christ showed his hands and the nail holes, so there would be no mistake about the flesh of man. The wages of sin for man is death. Christ could pay those wages as man because he was god. Mere man couldn't do it and would still be dead in trespass and sins.

1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Christ had to be fully God and fully man to accomplish our salvation.

Studyman

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Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God
 
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes   
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


Thank you for all the wonderful verses. But my question was "Did Jesus overcome sin as a man, or as an immortal God". Many of the Scriptures you posted referenced Him after His Father Raised Him from the dead. Many were references to Him before He became the "Man" Jesus Christ.

You posted scripture which says there is only one God. Which is true. And one mediator. Who did this mediator tell us to "pray too? The same God He prayed to, YES?

Matt. 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matt. 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Luke 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Mark 6:41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.

Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

One scripture you shared with me as your evidence that Jesus overcame satan because He was immortal God, with powers no other human has access to was:

Matt. 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But the Scriptures teach Moses did the same thing.

Ex. 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water.

So it seems, according to the Scriptures, the Mediator between God and man, the man Jesus. The Word of God which became Flesh and dwelt among us. A sheep from His Flock which was for the slaughter, God who was made in "All things" like His Brethren, relied on His Father for EVERYTHING HE did. He prayed to His Father, not Himself. He taught His Followers to pray to His Father in heaven. He was sustained in a fast for 40 days and forty night by His Father, just as did Moses.

John 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

So it seems according to His Word's, that He relied on His Father for everything. His Father gave Him, the man Jesus, His doctrine, the power to forgive, power to do miracles, power to raise folks from the dead.  the power to overcome satan, and when He was a Faithful Son unto death, this Same Father raised Him from the dead and set Him on the right hand of His Throne..

If He came as God, overcame sin as God, overcame satan as God, raised Himself from the dead as God, then He really didn't come in the Flesh, then He really didn't overcome sin by following His own advice. "Live by Every Word of God".

Is Jesus not the author and finisher of our Faith? Are we not to over come sin by completely relying on Him and ALL His Word's? Shall I also have access to the same power of God through Him, like Moses Sampson, David and all the other examples of Faith in the Bible?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


Anyway, It seems to diminish His Great Victory by teaching that He overcome sin because He was an immortal God that couldn't be tempted, couldn't die, had nothing to lose, rather than what the scriptures seem to imply, that He overcome sin by completely offering His human self a living sacrifice to God the Father.

Thank you all those scriptures. It is His Word's which are truth, on this I am sure. I am hoping to have an honest debate about the Word's of God on this matter.












 
















 










R. Anspach

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Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God
 
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes   
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


Thank you for all the wonderful verses. But my question was "Did Jesus overcome sin as a man, or as an immortal God". Many of the Scriptures you posted referenced Him after His Father Raised Him from the dead. Many were references to Him before He became the "Man" Jesus Christ.

Your question was answered but I think you are missing the whole point inherent in most of those verses. That God cannot die, and that man had to die in order for him to live. You can't have one without the other. Fully man in order to die, and fully God in order to raise up from that death. So your question is answered. Did Jesus overcome sin as a man, or as an immortal God? Answer is he overcame sin as a man because sin belonged to man, and as the immortal God because God alone could. I think we pretty much said that many times.


Quote
You posted scripture which says there is only one God. Which is true. And one mediator. Who did this mediator tell us to "pray too? The same God He prayed to, YES?

So you're actually saying Jesus was not God? Is this your theory? Are you part of those who reject the Trinity or that think Jesus was not God?


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So it seems, according to the Scriptures, the Mediator between God and man, the man Jesus.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Which you suppose was not God?


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Anyway, It seems to diminish His Great Victory by teaching that He overcome sin because He was an immortal God that couldn't be tempted, couldn't die

Are you supposing that God could die? Or are you supposing that a mere man could overcome the sins of every elect that ever lived?  Either way, you are wrong according to the word of God.
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Galatians 3:11

Kira

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K I R A 

Reformer

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Anyway, It seems to diminish His Great Victory by teaching that He overcome sin because He was an immortal God that couldn't be tempted, couldn't die

Are you supposing that God could die? Or are you supposing that a mere man could overcome the sins of every elect that ever lived?  Either way, you are wrong according to the word of God.

 &TY )Bible-Red( )Goodpoint(  It seems Studyman is trying to make this a either/or scenario. He couldn't be either/or, he had to be both. He had to overcome sin as man and immortal God.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The fullness of God in this man bodily, the incarnate God in the flesh. Believers, by faith partake of His death and resurrection because he was man with a divine nature.


Studyman

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 I would appreciate any reference to scriptures which say Jesus "overcame" because He had powers no other human has access to.

You already mentioned one verse: Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

But I think Rev 12:11 answers your question

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

They overcame by the blood of the Lamb. No human has the power within themselves  to overcome sin. The only way to access it is thru the blood of Christ. So Christ has the power that no other man has.

I think it’s pretty clear.  Hope that helps.

I agree 100% and never suggesting anything differently. I must rely on my Savior, not only for the forgiveness of sins, but also for the strength to "overcome" sin and temptation as Jesus relied on His Father for His Strength to overcome sin and temptation. Without the Word of God who created all things, how would I know what sin is? How would I know what Passover is? How would I know the true nature of man, and the Righteousness of God?

My question was, Did Jesus overcome as a man who relied on His Father for His doctrine, for the miracles He performed, for His strength to withstand the wiles of satan, and human lusts? Or was He "fully God" and relied on His power no human has access to for His Victory against satan.

Again, I'm speaking about what the Word of God teaches about Him.

Is. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Heb. 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Rom. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

From the scriptures it seems Jesus overcame by humbling Himself to His Father and His Father Loved Him, granted Him Spiritual protection from the deceiver, and raised Him from the dead because He was a faithful Son. The Bible says He learned to choose good over evil. I agree that He was the walking, talking Word of God, the creator God of the Bible which became Flesh. But question the implication that He was only Flesh in appearance.

I truly believe He overcame sin in the flesh, that God became Flesh "in all things like unto His Brethren", that He was "made a little lower than the angels", which I interpret as He was made mortal like His brethren. That God the father raised Him from the dead, and will also raise me from the dead if I overcome sin and temptation by "Denying myself, taking up my cross, and following Him" as He denied Himself, took up His cross and followed His Father.

I just strikes me how some seem determined to take away or diminish what this 60 year old man sees as a great victory, a path for His People to follow, the Author of Salvation, by implying that He accomplished this victory, not because He relied on His Father in all things, but because He was an immortal God who didn't risk His Life at all.












Reformer

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I truly believe He overcame sin in the flesh, that God became Flesh "in all things like unto His Brethren"

Then He overcame sin as a man and as God. Because God didn't sin.  So what are you disputing?


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I interpret as He was made mortal like His brethren.

God made as mortal as man sounds to me like God as man in order to redeem man. Evidence again that you cannot separate the man Christ from the God Christ in salvation.


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That God the father raised Him from the dead

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jesus Christ said "I" will raise it up. Evidence again that you cannot separate the man Christ from the God Christ in salvation.


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I just strikes me how some seem determined to take away or diminish what this 60 year old man sees as a great victory, a path for His People to follow, the Author of Salvation, by implying that He accomplished this victory, not because He relied on His Father in all things, but because He was an immortal God who didn't risk His Life at all.

We're not implying anything, we're saying plainly that He accomplished this victory because He was fully man and fully God who suffered the penalty of death for sin "in the flesh," and was resurrected "in the flesh" without those sins. Being man He paid the penalty in the flesh for sin and was resurrected without those sins because He was God. We don't imply, we declare what is written. The everlasting, eternal, undying God who has no beginning and has no end, obviously cannot die. If we believe the Bible. The man Christ died in the flesh and was resurrected because he was more than just a man. You cannot separate the man Christ from the God Christ. God didn't come as God to redeem us, He came as man to redeem us. Don't try and minimize the suffering of the man Christ apart from the resurrection by the God Christ. They were put together for a reason.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

God made himself a man that he might taste death for every elect. Yes God the father raised God the son from the dead, because they are one. Don't try and minimize the suffering of the man Christ for His people in death that they might have salvation.


Studyman

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Quote
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes   
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,



Quote
Quote
Thank you for all the wonderful verses. But my question was "Did Jesus overcome sin as a man, or as an immortal God". Many of the Scriptures you posted referenced Him after His Father Raised Him from the dead. Many were references to Him before He became the "Man" Jesus Christ.


Your question was answered but I think you are missing the whole point inherent in most of those verses. That God cannot die, and that man had to die in order for him to live. You can't have one without the other. Fully man in order to die, and fully God in order to raise up from that death. So your question is answered. Did Jesus overcome sin as a man, or as an immortal God? Answer is he overcame sin as a man because sin belonged to man, and as the immortal God because God alone could. I think we pretty much said that many times.

Quote
Quote
You posted scripture which says there is only one God. Which is true. And one mediator. Who did this mediator tell us to "pray too? The same God He prayed to, YES?


So you're actually saying Jesus was not God? Is this your theory? Are you part of those who reject the Trinity or that think Jesus was not God?

I'm really not interested in one religious doctrine over another. I didn't post this question to debate different religions and their beliefs. Jesus instructed us to Live by "Every Word of God". So This is what I am exploring here. Jesus was "The Word of God" which became Flesh. He was a "man of sorrows". He was "made perfect" through sufferings.  He was the "The First Fruit" of many who would overcome by His Sacrifice.

 The scriptures say God became a "man" and dwelt among us. It doesn't say He came to earth as a God. Jesus was God who became a man "in all things like unto His Brethren". God the Father raised Him from the Dead. Do you not believe these things?



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So it seems, according to the Scriptures, the Mediator between God and man, the man Jesus.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


Which you suppose was not God?


I have already established that the Word of God, His Son, that He sent from the beginning, "Let there be light", is the creator God of the Bible. He spoke to Abraham, He gave Cain, Abraham, Moses, and all of us His Fathers Words. He is the Life of man as His Word's clearly show. HIS Word's are Spirit and they are Life.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (The Christ, the Word of God made Flesh) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

There is no other way to eternity. But my question is "Did He, the Son of God, the Christ, the Word of God come to earth as a man and dwelt among us, or did God come to earth as an immortal God? It seems many religious man teache He came to earth as an immortal God that was only flesh in appearance. It seems like an important Biblical foundation to understand.



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Anyway, It seems to diminish His Great Victory by teaching that He overcome sin because He was an immortal God that couldn't be tempted, couldn't die

Are you supposing that God could die? Or are you supposing that a mere man could overcome the sins of every elect that ever lived?  Either way, you are wrong according to the word of God.

It is the Word of God which prompted my question.

God can not die. But Jesus did, unless you believe He was faking it. God can not be tempted, but Jesus was, unless you believe it was all a show. God can not fear, but Jesus did, unless you don't believe what is written about Him.

The Scriptures pretty much show that Jesus, the Word of God which became Flesh, Trusted His Father for the power to do miracles, to overcome, and didn't rely on His own will or power at all.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Again, it just seems to not only go against scripture, but also diminishes the great sacrifice He made to become the unblemished Lamb by implying He really wasn't a man like you and I.








 


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