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Author Topic: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?  (Read 1789 times)

Neeson

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Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« on: October 21, 2018, 08:53:05 AM »
Tony Warren,
  Isaiah 53:8
"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken".

I understand how he was cut off and it was for our transgressions, but can you please explain the first sentence. "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation?" How was he taken from prison, and what generation?

George

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2018, 04:10:41 PM »
Tony Warren,
I understand how he was cut off and it was for our transgressions, but can you please explain the first sentence.

Why ask Tony Warren only? He's not the only Christian on this forum. Ever stop to think his answer might be a liberal answer rather than a LITERAL answer?

Melanie

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 01:49:17 AM »
George, when will you ever add anything constructive? Seriously. Maybe he asked Tony because he knows Tony will actually answer a question, and do so with scripture following.

Why would you post that? Do you see anyone else answering the question? Maybe they don't know the answer (like me). Maybe they think people like you will make fun of their answers. Maybe they're just too busy right now. So then, what's your excuse? Do you just want to criticize?

My advise, if you don't have the answer, be constructive and hold your tongue.

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28"

Red

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 05:07:14 AM »
Why ask Tony Warren only? He's not the only Christian on this forum.
Greetings George, I think the most respectful thing to do is allow Tony to answer the post since it was (for whatever reason) address to him. If Tony has not answer within a few days, (for whatever reason) then I will, it's not that difficult using the scriptures.
Quote from: Nesson on: Yesterday at 08:53:05 AM
Ever stop to think his answer might be a liberal answer rather than a LITERAL answer?
Liberal? No..... correct?........all of us are subject to miss some truth that another brother or sister could add light on, since we ALL spend our life as a believer coming to a more perfect knowledge of the truth~we are our brother's keeper of their growth in grace in helping each other grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ our Lord, and the wonderful salvation we have through him by the grace of God.
Quote from: Melanie
Proverbs 17:28~"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."
Ouch! I have learned that lesson the hard way.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Chris

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 01:38:09 PM »
Why ask Tony Warren only?

Why not ask Tony Warren? He studies God's word, the Bible, as opposed to studying Dr. Walvoord world renowned teacher of Dispensational nonsense.

Tony Warren

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 03:15:00 PM »

>>>
Isaiah 53:8
"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken".

I understand how he was cut off and it was for our transgressions, can you please explain the first sentence. "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation?" How was he taken from prison, and what generation?
<<<

The phrase "taken from Prison and Judgment" explains the work of Christ in the Lord's redemption plan. If you'll note, the context is that the Lord had laid upon Him our sins, and ultimately it was for this reason that He was spiritually imprisoned and then judged of God. He suffered sin, and the resulting death (the wages of sin) for it, so that by this He might set free our spirits that were imprisoned. The spirits in Prison (which we all were before His glorious substitutionary atonement on our behalf) were all set free from the bondage of sin because He became sin, and was risen up after judgment purged it from Him (and us). So though the wicked rulers of the congregation were His oppressors who physically shamed and imprisoned him, and who sat in judgment over Him for His alleged sin, the reality is that He "did" stand shamed and laden with sin. He did stand guilty before God because He stood in as a substitute for us. It was His imprisonment and judgment on our behalf that was efficacious for our liberty and deliverance.

Isaiah 53:8-11
  • "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
  • And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
  • Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
  • He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."

This prophesy of judgment and death was literally fulfilled by the wicked, yet it was ultimately pointing to God who bruised Christ, who sent Him to Prison, who saw His shame/grief there, and who made His soul an offering for our sins so that His generation or seed would be declared righteous. It was "this imprisonment for us, this judgment for us," rather than His physical imprisonment and judgment by the wicked, that God saw and was satisfied with. In order to set the prisoners/captives free, Christ had to in the flesh become laden with sin as they were, be purged, and then taken and resurrected from it. This is the prophesy of deliverance from Prison that Isaiah spoke about, which was our spiritual captivity in sin. He had to become our substitute or stand in and be judged. Christ never came to set literal or physical people free from prison, or to reign on a earthly throne, but spiritually to loose mankind's bindings and give them spiritual liberty. All the assumed ideas about the Messiah coming to set free a literal captivity or a physical nation, is simply a myth. The spirits in prison were us, and He had to go there to set us free.

Isaiah 61:1
  • "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

This was a reference to our spiritual captivity, and how "He" would declare this to His children or generation. Even as Christ Himself in referencing this, proclaimed this prophesy would be fulfilled by Him.

Luke 4:18
  • "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

The elect are the captives in spiritual prison that were bruised, and with His bruising we were set free. We were the spirits in prison that Christ came to substitute for, that we might be set at liberty. His imprisonment, death and resurrection ultimately resulted in our victory--the declaring to His generation deliverance from it. His being cut off from the land of the living for sin, and then purged of it and raised up afterward, is the ultimate victory from Prison and Judgment.

As far as the rhetorical question of, who shall declare (or speak) to His generation, the answer is, "The Lord!" His generation is His seed, those who are His offspring, His Sons/Children, His family. That is the "generation" of whom the Lord speaks. It is "specifically" because He was not only imprisoned and judged, but that God was satisfied with His sacrifice, and so He was taken from that Prison and judgment, that all was fulfilled that His generation could have the gospel preached to them.

See: This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things be Fulfilled

http://www.mountain-retreat.org/faq/this_generation_shall_not_pass_until_all_be_fulfilled.shtml

Declaring or speaking to His Generation is the revelation of Christ to His people, as opposed to the generation or family of evil (those who have ears, but cannot hear this declaration). For example as prophesied that He would show the praises of the Lord to the generation or children to come, as opposed to the stubborn generation or children whose spirit was not steadfast with God:

Psalms 78:4-8
  • "We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
  • For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
  • That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
  • That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
  • And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God."

Two distinct generations or families, one to whom Christ will be revealed and the other a stubborn and rebellious generation that set not their heart right, and whose spirit was not steadfast with God. Again, as God says in Psalms 145, the righteous of God are the generation who will praise God's works.

Psalms 145:3-5
  • "Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.
  • One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.
  • I will speak of the glorious honour of thy majesty, and of thy wondrous works."

So many people are understanding generation to refer to a particular people living at one particular time, when generally God is referring to a spiritual family or children. People of the generation of vipers, and those of the generation of Christ, meaning His children/family. In fact, the verse you asked about was commented on and actually referenced by the Apostle Paul as referring to the work of Christ (acts 8:32-33). Just how He was taken from prison and judgment, and more importantly why He was there, whose judgment was upon him--and for what.

1st Peter 3:18-19
  • For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
  • By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"

by which... In other words, it was "by" His death and resurrection that He went to Prison and preached to the spirits there. Why was He judged, what spirits did He preached to, and what Prison was it where they were in? Once we understand what this all means by "allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture," we can discern exactly how He went to Prison, why He went to Prison, how He was judged, why He was judged, and ultimately how and why God was satisfied so that He was taken from that Prison and that Judgment and raised up from that death to sit on the throne of God--and we (those spirits) with Him.

Also See: What Does Scripture Mean, Jesus went and Preached to the Spirits in Prison?

http://www.mountain-retreat.org/faq/how_did_jesus_preach_to_the_spirits_in_prison.shtml

The verse in Acts 8:32-33 illuminates what Isaiah means as it comments on it saying Christ was taken from humiliation (in Prison) and judgment by the Lord. So this verse in Acts 8 points us to the answer of How He went to prison, preached to the spirits there, and how He was afterward taken from Prison and Judgment, setting those spirits in Prison there, free.

Acts 8:32-33
  • "The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
  • In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth."

He didn't open His mouth to his accusers because ultimately He "was" guilty of sin, not as the wicked supposed, but because He was laden with all our sins and had to suffer the wrath of God for those sins in order for us to be made free. We aren't to suppose Christ cried in agony because He was so weak being physically crucified. Many men were crucified and died valiantly. No, His pain and agony was of a infinitely greater nature than mere physical, it was the anguish of suffering the wrath of God on Him for "Our sins and our transgressions." A punishment of terrible wrath that only a man with sin was qualified to receive, and that only a God without it could endure to have it purged where He was taken from prison and judgment free from it.

I hope that helps a little.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Red

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 06:07:07 AM »
His imprisonment, death and resurrection ultimately resulted in our victory--the declaring to His generation deliverance. His being cut off from the land of the living for sin, and then purged of it and raised up afterward, is the ultimate victory from Prison and Judgment.
All clearly stated, and thoroughly said.
Quote from: Tony Warren on: Yesterday at 03:15:00 PM
See: This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things be Fulfilled

http://www.mountain-retreat.org/faq/this_generation_shall_not_pass_until_all_be_fulfilled.shtml
Brother, it was this very article that I read back when you first put it out that cemented my faith in eschatology understanding~when once I saw that, the spiritual puzzle fell right into place!
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Colleen

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 07:43:07 AM »

Amen Red, and outstanding and scriptural explanation Tony.

Apostolic

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 10:52:57 AM »
The elect are the captives in spiritual prison that were bruised, and with His bruising we were set free. We were the spirits in prison that Christ came to substitute for, that we might be set at liberty.

That's not what I believe. Not to stray much off topic, but my pastor believes 1 Peter 3 18-20 refers to Christ’s descent into Hell after He was crucified because he wanted to give the fallen angels a second chance. So he went there to proclaim His victory to these fallen angels who were imprisoned there. These fallen angels are speaking about Genesis's “the sons of God”.  So I don't think your understanding is correct. This would also explain how the fallen angels got back into heaven to rebel in Revelation 12.

Philly Dawg

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 11:43:37 AM »
Why ask Tony Warren only? He's not the only Christian on this forum. Ever stop to think his answer might be a liberal answer rather than a LITERAL answer?

Liberals are burning writings by Tony Warren in effigy! But like most, you don't have a clue what a actual liberal is. Tony seeks to bring together with scripture, you seek to divide with rhetoric. You've been brainwashed by your god Trump so that anyone not agreeing with your worldly doctrines, is automatically a liberal. You justify the wicked and condemn the just. That's the TV evangelical and dipsy Christian way in a nutshell.

You speaking about literal scripture is a joke. Tony actually gave a literal answer and demonstrated with scripture how it was fulfilled spiritually. Did Christ come and set anyone free from a literal prison? But again, to someone like you who already has their mind irrecoverably made up about a issue like this, your first instinct is to be offended by the truth and to stone the messenger. How about actually considering the message.

I read this in a forum the other day and I think it applies with your enmity against God fearing Christians.

(Prov. 17:15) "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?"

Something to think about George when you're praising Israel for her laws against Christians, and condemning Christians for their outstretched hands to Israel. Isn't that  justifying the wicked and condemning the just?

  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Red

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 03:03:45 PM »
That's not what I believe. Not to stray much off topic, but my pastor believes 1 Peter 3 18-20 refers to Christ’s descent into Hell after He was crucified because he wanted to give the fallen angels a second chance.
You do not have to believe what Tony teaches, and neither should you believe what another man teaches, as you seem to side with your pastor, over the scriptures. The word of God is our only source for doctrine, and godliness as to how to live our life in the flesh. 
Quote from: Apostolic Reply #8 on: Today at 10:52:57 AM
but my pastor believes 1 Peter 3 18-20 refers to Christ’s descent into Hell after He was crucified because he wanted to give the fallen angels a second chance.
Now that's a personal intrepretation for he will find no support in the scriptures for that doctrine. There are elect angels and non-elect angels, and God's will determine that before the world began. Besides, Jesus took on him not the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham, and came in the likeness of sinful flesh, for sin that he might condemn sin in the flesh. So he did not die for them, but for his chosen seed. There was not anything to offer them, and more than that.... they are NOT there, but in the air and in the children of disobedience.  It was Peter who said:
Quote from: Peter
2nd Peter 2:4~"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"
Hell here is used in the sense of a judgement that the fallen angels cannot escape from~and the judgement is that ALL of them including Satan are living under chains of darkness, that will keep them under UNTIL the judgement of the last day where they shall perish in the lake of fire. They live UNDER CHAINS of DARKNESS along with all of the children of disobedience.
Quote from: Apostolic Reply #8 on: Today at 10:52:57 AM
These fallen angels are speaking about Genesis's “the sons of God”.
Respectfully I disagree. The sons of God in Genesis 6 were the children of God that went and married the children of men, natural men, unregenerated. There is not one thing in the context of Genesis six that would even lend itself for us to believe otherwise.
Quote from: Apostolic Reply #8 on: Today at 10:52:57 AM
This would also explain how the fallen angels got back into heaven to rebel in Revelation 12.
Genesis six is not anyone's link to Revelation 12, it will not fit, and the reason being is those of Genesis six died in their sins and are in darkness and silence with NO conscience of any activity in the earth or heaven~they are there waiting for the same judgment of the last day where all shall perish, in the lake of fire, which is the second death which (the lake of fire) I believe will be THIS WORLD when God shall destroy it with fire and with a great noise, AND fervent heat, where ALL of God's enemies shall be burned up and dissolved....or, perish as John 3:16 said so clearly, that it leaves no room for disputation.   
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Red

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 05:00:49 AM »
You've been brainwashed by your god Trump so that anyone not agreeing with your worldly doctrines, is automatically a liberal.
By mentioning President Trump's name in such a disrespectful way, your support for what Tony so well said, actually takes from it.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Philly Dawg

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 08:06:46 AM »
You've been brainwashed by your god Trump so that anyone not agreeing with your worldly doctrines, is automatically a liberal.
By mentioning President Trump's name in such a disrespectful way, your support for what Tony so well said, actually takes from it.

I don't think so. If anyone deserves disrespect, or really a lack of respect, it would be the father of lies, Trump. Should the Christian Germans have respected Hitler when he said the Jews were to blame?

My point was that I think George and a lot of other TV evangelicals, Dispensationalists and other far right wing radicals have that same mentality that if you disagree with them, you're a democrat or a liberal. George continually attempts to smear Tony with the title liberal, just like Trump does to those who disagree with his unchristian tactics and personal views. His is a religion of division and based upon a false narrative, just like Trump. I don't care whether you support the Trump type of politic or not, the methodology is the same as George's. Never answer a question, distract from the truth, distort what your opponent says and attempt to divide and win by silencing your critics. Tony doesn't do that, it's not his methodology and he doesn't use those kinds of tactics. Far from it taking from what Tony said so well, it actually is a confirmation of love of truth rather than of the lies and deceit that Trump deceives with so well.

(Prov. 17:15) "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?"

The only division I will justify is that between Christian and non Christian. I will never justify the wicked, be it Trump, George or Dispensationalism. I will never condemn the just. I don't care what anyone's obviously self serving personal opinion or politic is. Truth is never on the side of lies, nor does it justify the wicked. The Spirit won't allow it.

I know I used Trump as a example, but let's not get too far off topic.

  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Lieberman

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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 01:34:51 PM »
I don't think so. If anyone deserves disrespect, or really a lack of respect, it would be the father of lies, Trump. Should the Christian Germans have respected Hitler when he said the Jews were to blame?

I happen top agree with you Philly. We're living in a era when many of those who call themselves Christian look upon the unsaved as two groups of good unsaved people, and bad unsaved people. They are one group and the same generation of evil. You can't respect one evil and hate another evil, or like you said we can't justify one wicked and condemn another wicked just because we're of a certain ideology. They both are a abomination to the Lord. But as the scripture you posted proclaims, how much does it cost to give wisdom to a fool seeing his heart is not in it?

This is not so much really a political issue, it's a issue of church blindness in certain areas. We have the horrible sending out of package bombs yesterday to prominent political figures that don't agree with trump. It's because fish rots from the head, and people take their cues and clues from their leaders. If our leaders are blind, ignorant and divisive, the people they lead will be blind, ignorant and divisive. Liberal or conservative, they are both from the same wicked generation and neither deserves Christian respect anymore than a false prophet does.


Quote
My point was that I think George and a lot of other TV evangelicals, Dispensationalists and other far right wing radicals have that same mentality that if you disagree with them, you're a democrat or a liberal.

Exactly. And therefore deserve whatever is done to you as a Democrat. This mentality was always there, but it didn't rise its ugly head out of the clear blue sky, it was brought on by this divisive rhetoric and the "us against them" unamerican mentality. The mentality of the constitution be damned, they and the press are the enemy and anything goes.

I know some here (and we all know who they are), will stick their heads in the sand as if Trump has no culpability, but we all also know the root of this hatred of former Presidents and of nearly every media outlet except Fox News. It comes from the top, from the vile, contemptible lies and distortions that these enablers see as righteous indignation.


Quote
George continually attempts to smear Tony with the title liberal, just like Trump does to those who disagree with his unchristian tactics and personal views. His is a religion of division and based upon a false narrative, just like Trump.

Yes, and it's that obvious. His agenda is to make a false comment and then sit back and watch the moron mob agree with him (some even using scripture), and support his unjustified, divisive and false doctrines. Anti press nationalists, fascists, dictators, and what does the bible say? Nothing new under the sun. Nothing new in pseudo or political Christianity or in the wicked justification of it. The left leaning Christians justified Clinton, now the right leaning Christians justify Trump. Neither really knowing what a Christian is though.


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Re: Christ taken from Prison and who declares his Generation?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 01:47:41 PM »
« Last Reported: Today at 01:36:23 PM »

People, The latest comments are pretty much off topic. If you wish to continue them, please move them to the Miscellaneous Topics Forum or The Open Forum.
     Thanks

 


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