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Author Topic: Marriage And Divorce  (Read 38333 times)

Mr Earl

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2004, 10:21:02 PM »
What do you do with Mt. 19:9?  In that passage which many say shows the "exception clause" allowing for remarriage------the husband has committed adultery (remarriage) and the left wife is not allowed to remarry without committing sin as would the 2nd husband...............Just a thought.  Blessings in Jesus, cindy

Hi cindy
Read Matthew 18:9 again. 'And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, {the except clause here is the point}otherwise I agree with you, however, But you said the husband had committed adultry, in which cause she is divorced. Peace Earl


Gilda

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2004, 12:57:12 PM »

otherwise I agree with you, however, But you said the husband had committed adultry, in which cause she is divorced. Peace Earl


I don't follow you. How does a husband comitting adultery equal divorce? Or maybe I misunderstood you. Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced?

Mr Earl

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2004, 02:35:36 PM »

otherwise I agree with you, however, But you said the husband had committed adultry, in which cause she is divorced. Peace Earl


I don't follow you. How does a husband comitting adultery equal divorce? Or maybe I misunderstood you. Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced?


Why is it that we think only a woman can commit adultery?  

Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced? Yes.

Peace, Earl

Mr Earl

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2004, 02:38:41 PM »

otherwise I agree with you, however, But you said the husband had committed adultry, in which cause she is divorced. Peace Earl


I don't follow you. How does a husband comitting adultery equal divorce? Or maybe I misunderstood you. Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced?

By his actions he both, committe sin and broke the Marriage Covenant.

Peace Earl

judykanova

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2004, 02:39:52 PM »
I lifted this from Bradley's post on Revelations 17,
because it struck me as helping to also explain why, on this side of the cross, divorce is no longer an option:

« Revelations Chapter 17, Reply #2 on 3/8/04 @10:23am from Bradley»
Quote
Ephesians 5:30-33
30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33  Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


In this passage Paul gives us spiritual truths to apply to our marriages, but these same truths are applied to the church.  He clearly says he is speaking about Christ and the church who are to be joined together into one body and one flesh.

I think part of the confusion which arises concerning what some are referring to as the 'exception clause', is that Christ had not yet gone to the cross, thus mending the 'breach' between man and God, as symbolized by the (miraculous) rendng of the veil in the temple.

Matt 27:50-51
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Heb 6:19-20
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 9:2-15
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; ...
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. ...
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


To allow divorce within marriage -- which is an earthly representation of Christ and His bride the church -- would be altogether inconsistent with the teachings of the Bible concerning Christ's fulfilment of the law on our behalf, removing the partition between us and God.  But moreover, this would be in opposition to the many assurances in God's Word that He will 'never leave us nor forsake us'.

Heb 13:4-6
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.


Notice please how marriage is directly linked to Christ's statement that He will "never leave.. nor forsake" us.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

cindyw

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2004, 07:26:54 PM »
Hi cindy
Read Matthew 18:9 again. 'And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, {the except clause here is the point}otherwise I agree with you, however, But you said the husband had committed adultry, in which cause she is divorced. Peace Earl

I don't see that at all.   What I see is that a husband WRONGLY put away his wife and committed adultery against her by marrying another(which appears scripturally to be a CONTINUAL state of sin---Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39).    What I also see is that the innocent wife is told she will sin (commit adultery) should she remarry (Mt. 5:32)----and any man who "takes" her will be guilty of adultery.    How could that be so if God had dissolved the marriage due to adultery?   I see absolutely no provision for her to remarry in spite of her husband's adultery.  I see in this passage that they both still belong to one another in God's eyes.

You say adultery equates to divorce.   Do you believe if someone commits adultery they are then divorced-----even if the offended one wants reconciliation?    Do you also believe scripture teaches that divorce and dissolution are one and the same thing?    If you read I Cor. 7:10-11 it appears the woman who "departs" from her husband is divorced, yet, Paul still calls him "her husband" and tells her she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to him.   No provision for remarriage to another and it appears that Paul is speaking on an issue Jesus already addressed-------Paul expounding on it here in this passage.   Blessings in Jesus, Cindy :)

Chris

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2004, 04:42:19 AM »
I don't follow you. How does a husband comitting adultery equal divorce? Or maybe I misunderstood you. Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced?

By his actions he both, committe sin and broke the Marriage Covenant.

Peace Earl

Where does the bible say that?

That's so easy to say, but where is your biblical foundation for making such a law? You can't just make up reasons why people can marry when God says that you can't marry a divorced person.

 Matt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Carmel

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2004, 04:59:29 AM »
Hi,

 I would like to know if the Lord has joined Moslems together in their marriage as in---

(Mat 19:6)  "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."



 


Tony Warren

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2004, 07:49:04 AM »
Quote
>>>
Hi,
I would like to know if the Lord has joined Muslims together in their marriage as in---

(Mat 19:6)  "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
<<<

The answer is yes, God has joined Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hinduism, etc., through the law established in the beginning of man and wife.  God is the God of all creation, not just believers. Just as all people are subject to the laws of God (and thus the judgment) and not just believers, God has a creation order or morality. And all His creation has this "God breathed morality" inherently within them.

Romans 1:19-20
  • "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
  • For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

All men, having been originally created in the image of God, inherently know there is a God (whether they will admit to it or not), and know that there is an order of things. A marriage is the joining of husband and wife into a one flesh. Do you think marriage in every country just "evolved" mysteriously?

The marriage covenant was instituted at creation, not in the Law of Moses as many believe. When a man leaves father and mother and takes a wife (Christian or not), they automatically enter into a Covenant or promise before God as being together as one flesh. And this was instituted from the beginning.

Genesis 2:23-24
  • "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
  • Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

So if anyone talks about Marriage being instituted by Moses, they don't know what they are talking about. Indeed, Christ spoke of this when speaking about marriage. That a man and women in this covenant relationship cleaves [dabaq], or are joined together to be as one flesh, and He noted it was a creation ordinance. This is illustrated again in Matthew:

Matthew 19:4-6
  • "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
  • And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
  • Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

Clearly God is referencing the creation ordinance marriage Covenant which was instituted long before Job, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Israel, or the Church, and is declaring they were joined together before God, and also plainly commands that man should never pull them apart.

So you see it isn't God who is ambiguous about a marriage, it is man who looks for every little opportunity to turn to the right hand, and to the left, in order to avoid God's truths.
 
nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Oneil

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2004, 04:39:01 PM »
Why is it that we think only a woman can commit adultery?  

Do you mean that when that happens, they are automatically divorced? Yes.

Peace, Earl

I didn't read anyone say that. And everyone I know understands very well that both women and men commit adultery. Who thinks that only women commit adultery?

I believe that you are just saying a lot of things without any real thought being put into it. Adultery does not break a marriage, divorce breaks the marriage. Adultery and divorce are two separate acts. If what you believe was true, then there would be no need for a writing of divorcement at all. But it was required in the old testament.

Slingshot

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2004, 09:04:16 PM »
Quote
Adultery does not break a marriage, divorce breaks the marriage.

Hi Oneil,
You are correct in saying that adultery does not break the marriage but I believe you are wrong when you say that divorce does. Divorce doesn't break the marriage. If it did then why would it be adultery to remarry or marry one who has been divorced. It makes no sense

Mattew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.


Many people, without reading carefully the previous 8 verses, read "except it be for fornication" and think they're free to divorce, but they are wrong. If it were true than Jesus is talking out both sides of his mouth.

Also think about what that law of Moses meant.

Matthew 19:8
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.


It means that one who uses this "exception clause" has a hard heart. A true christian doesn't have a hard heart.

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:


The only thing that breaks a marriage is death. And that is why it is the only way one can remarry without committing adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.


Of course that applies to the husband as well.

This is what I believe God's word says, If I'm wrong please show with scripture.

Steve


Shirley

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2004, 04:38:24 AM »
Yeah but a lot of good people respect high profile conservative people like George Bush, Rush Linbaugh, and Bob Jones, and so when they do things which are unethical, dishonest or unbiblical, it puts a bad light on all conservative christians. Don't you think that is true?


Yes, I think that it does. But that can't be helped. We can only be responsible for ourselves. These others who certainly do not represent good christians will have to answer for themselves.

As far as divorce being a necessary evil, I think that is a contradiction in terms. Evil is not necessary. Neither is divorce if the two people deal with their marriage as God calls for us to deal with it. As he loves the church.

 Colossians 3:18-19  "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them."

Husbands are not abiding by god's instructions, and neither are wives.


Robert Powell

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2004, 02:22:54 PM »

 Colossians 3:18-19  "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them."

Husbands are not abiding by god's instructions, and neither are wives.


Amen. That's the crucial point of the matter. You are so right. No one wants to do it the way God would have us do it anymore. No one wants it for better or worse anymore. When things get a little rough, they just want to start all over with someone else as if they were trading in a tempermental car.

 Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

InChristAlone

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2004, 09:55:12 PM »
Hi Dan, why do you focus on man and forgetting to focus on God and His Holy word?


It seems to me that those who say divorce is unbiblical are hypocrites.

Take fundamentalist preacher Oral Roberts. He is a good example of this. He set high biblical standards for his university (ORU). He has even said that if you are overweight, you cannot attend. I'm a little overweight, and because of that I would have been rejected for admission (not that I would have ever applied).

Likewise, at ORU a divorced person found themselves just as rejected. But Oral Robert's son married a woman who had big problems with the ministry. In the end, the son divorced her and with Oral Robert's blessings. That is what I am talking about with the hypocricy of fundamentals.

And if you wondered how Oral would deal with the heir to all his possessions now that this irreversible action had been done, he simply did what all fundamentalists do. The son wrote a book claiming that he had lost his salvation. The book was called "Second Chance" It went on to say that He was resaved and then remarried another woman more compatible to the honesty standards of Oral. Talk about your self serving fundamentalists, is this not hypocricy?

It seems to me the son dropped his pants, and everyone at ORU is pretending they did not see it. Where are all those charismatic fundamentalist standards on this issue. They went right out the window.

The point is, divorce is an evil thing until you want one. Then it becomes a necessary thing. Don't be a hypocrite and tell others they can't do what you would do.

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Wanda

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2004, 04:52:23 AM »
Divorce a Necessary Evil

That is an unfortunate choice of words. I take it that you mean that it's something that is wrong, but God allows?

Quote
It seems to me that those who say divorce is unbiblical are hypocrites.
Take fundamentalist preacher Oral Roberts. He is a good example of this. He set high biblical standards for his university (ORU). He has even said that if you are overweight, you cannot attend. I'm a little overweight, and because of that I would have been rejected for admission (not that I would have ever applied).

Likewise, at ORU a divorced person found themselves just as rejected. But Oral Robert's son married a woman who had big problems with the ministry. In the end, the son divorced her and with Oral Robert's blessings. That is what I am talking about with the hypocricy of fundamentals.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think that this person represents good biblical christians? You cannot judge christians by the actions of this man. each christian stands and falls on his own actions, not those of high profile people.


Quote
The point is, divorce is an evil thing until you want one. Then it becomes a necessary thing. Don't be a hypocrite and tell others they can't do what you would do.

I can only speak for myself. I know that staying in a terrible or abusive situation is a very hard thing to do. So I don't ever tell anyone never to divorce. Because what's a woman to do when she is being beaten daily? It's easy for men to say stay there and take it when they can't even take a verbal insult without coming to blows or getting into a fight.


 


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