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Author Topic: Marriage And Divorce  (Read 36237 times)

Dan

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Marriage And Divorce
« on: October 02, 2003, 05:14:42 AM »
It seems to me that those who say divorce is unbiblical are hypocrites.

Take fundamentalist preacher Oral Roberts. He is a good example of this. He set high biblical standards for his university (ORU). He has even said that if you are overweight, you cannot attend. I'm a little overweight, and because of that I would have been rejected for admission (not that I would have ever applied).

Likewise, at ORU a divorced person found themselves just as rejected. But Oral Robert's son married a woman who had big problems with the ministry. In the end, the son divorced her and with Oral Robert's blessings. That is what I am talking about with the hypocricy of fundamentals.

And if you wondered how Oral would deal with the heir to all his possessions now that this irreversible action had been done, he simply did what all fundamentalists do. The son wrote a book claiming that he had lost his salvation. The book was called "Second Chance" It went on to say that He was resaved and then remarried another woman more compatible to the honesty standards of Oral. Talk about your self serving fundamentalists, is this not hypocricy?

It seems to me the son dropped his pants, and everyone at ORU is pretending they did not see it. Where are all those charismatic fundamentalist standards on this issue. They went right out the window.

The point is, divorce is an evil thing until you want one. Then it becomes a necessary thing. Don't be a hypocrite and tell others they can't do what you would do.

Kenneth White

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2003, 07:13:12 AM »
It seems to me that those who say divorce is unbiblical are hypocrites.

Take fundamentalist preacher Oral Roberts. He is a good example of this.

Dan,
  You certainly cannot judge biblical christians by the acts of one man. Oral Roberts is not representative of either reformed, or biblical christians.

And even if he was, just because you could find an example of one man who acted hypocritically, that doesn't make the doctrine wrong or all christians who believe it hypocrites.

 Deu. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

All of us are responsible for our own sins, not the sins of anyone else. This man is not a shame unto those who believe that divorce is ungodly, but a shame unto himself.


Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Rich Aikers

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2003, 04:05:07 AM »
I am struggling with the issue of divorce and am looking for your views on the issue. My pastor tells me that in the case of my wife committing adultery, it is proper for me to divorce her because of the exception for fornication.

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." Matthew 18:9

I don't want to stay with her because I don't really trust her anymore, but this leaves me wanting to accept that advice, but with my conscience bothering me. What is the christian thing to do. Is it lawful for me to divorce her because of this?

GoldRush

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2003, 12:29:37 PM »
Rich,

Welcome to this discussion group and we hope you will receive sound answers to your question regarding divorce.

Without knowing particulars, we will only repeat the words of Jesus Christ:

". . A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.  So then, they are no longer two, but one flesh.  Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."   Matthew 19:5&6

May God give you much wisdom,  comfort, and peace in your situation.  We will pray for repentance and forgiveness in your house.

J&R








GoldRush
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Sandy

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2003, 04:20:02 PM »
Rich,

My husband was an elder in the church we attended and this topic had to be addressed.  Here is the result of much study, and Scripture comparison.  I hope this will help you in this difficult matter.  I also hope you will find the courage, faith, and love to do what honors our Lord.

     What does God have to say regarding divorce and remarriage?

Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

     God describes a man and woman coming together in marriage as having become a single flesh.  They are no longer two.  If the two become one, how can the two be divided for any cause?

Mat 19:6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

     We clearly see that when God instituted marriage, He meant it to be for life.

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
1Co 7:39  The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

     If God never intended for divorce why do so many preachers and churches teach that it is biblically permissible for believers to divorce for fornication?

Mat 5:31  It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32  But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 19:9  And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

     Looking at these verses in isolation from the rest of the Bible it would certainly appear that God is allowing divorce on the grounds of adultery.  But we cannot understand exactly what God is teaching unless we look at these verses in their proper context.

     In both of the above verses Christ is dealing with a problem of hardness of heart.  The Pharisees are the teachers of the law.  As teachers they fully know what the law says regarding divorce.  When we look at the exact wording of the law we get a better picture of how the people were using the wording of the law to suit their own ungodly purposes and their hardheartedness.

De. 24:1  When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favor in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

     The Pharisee’s are testing Christ and trying to show Him to be a false teacher.  So they ask Him a question which they already have the answer for.  They know the answer because it is clearly written in the law.

Mat 19:3  The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

     The Pharisee’s know that the uncleanness spoken of in the law was to be only for sexual uncleanness, or adultery.  But they very coyly ask Christ if the Law of Moses permitted divorce for EVERY CAUSE.

     Christ answered them:

Mat 19:4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh
Mat 19:6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7  They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away
Mat 19:8  He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9  And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

     In verse 9 Christ is not saying that it is permissible to divorce for adultery, but that adultery was to have been the only cause for divorce in the Law of Moses.  The Israelites were using the wording (uncleanness) of the law to put away (divorce) their wives for whatever uncleanness suited them.  There found many causes for uncleanness.  Any type of bodily discharge would suffice.    If it had not been for the hardness of their own hearts God would not have allowed for a bill of divorcement to have been written.  God clearly tells us what He thinks of divorce:

Mal 2:16  For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

     God hates divorce.  Divorce for any cause is not biblically supported.  If it were we would have contradiction in the Word of God.  And the Word cannot contradict.

Mar 10:2  And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him,  Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
Mar 10:3  And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
Mar 10:4  And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar 10:5  And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
Mar 10:6  But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Mar 10:7  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8  And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Mar 10:9  What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mar 10:10  And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
Mar 10:11  And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mar 10:12  And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

     These verses in Mark show a little more clearly what God had allowed in the law and clearly what God had intended when He brought together man and woman to become one flesh.  These verses show no exception at all for divorce.  In fact they clearly teach that if a believer divorces and remarries he/she commits adultery.  We see this again in Luke:

Lu 16:18  Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

     Again, there is no exception for adultery.  God clearly states that there is to be no divorce for any cause between believers.  Of course this law applies to all mankind, but unbelievers will not accept any of God’s laws including this one.

     According to the view of some teachers/preachers, churches, there is biblically one more cause whereby Christians are freed from the law.

1Co 7:12  But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:  If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13  And the woman which hath a husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15  But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

     Many use verse 15 to teach that if the unbelieving spouse chooses to divorce the believer, this then frees the believer from the bondage of the law, thereby allowing the believer to remarry.  But when we view this verse in light of the many other verses of Scripture that clearly speak of being bound in marriage until death, we see this cannot be referring to the bondage of the law.  We are called to be at peace with all men.  When believers are unequally yoked with unbelievers their marriage could be anything but peaceful.  So what bondage is God telling us we are free from?  God says in vs. 15 that He has called us to peace.  Since there may or may not be peace in an unequally yoked marriage, God is saying that if the unbeliever desires to leave the marriage, then the believer is freed from the legal contract of an unholy union, but this is not giving the believer permission to remarry.  In fact according to the law of God, which is still intact, we are called adulterers and adulteresses if we remarry while our spouse still lives.   The law of being bound in marriage until God separates us in death is still there.  We are free from the bickering that may come from this marriage, but we must never marry again, unless or until our former spouse dies.

     With unbiblical, liberal teaching in many Christian churches today, divorce is as common as grass.  Both husbands and wives are given permission and sometimes-even blessings in their desire to divorce.  Is it any wonder that the divorce rate within Christian circles today is above 51%?  What a sad commentary on how we twist the Word of God to suit our selfish purposes.

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

1Co 7:39  The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

     The disciples themselves saw much difficulty with the teaching of Christ regarding divorce and remarriage.  Christ had indeed given a difficult pill to swallow.    

Mat 19:10  His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

     Will we continue to hold to our manmade doctrines on this topic, or will we yield to the teachings of Christ?
 

Rich Aikers

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2003, 06:45:01 PM »
Rich,

Welcome to this discussion group and we hope you will receive sound answers to your question regarding divorce.

Without knowing particulars, we will only repeat the words of Jesus Christ:

". . A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.  So then, they are no longer two, but one flesh.  Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."   Matthew 19:5&6

May God give you much wisdom,  comfort, and peace in your situation.  We will pray for repentance and forgiveness in your house.
J&R

Thanks for the response. You say without knowing particulars, you can't say. Does that mean that there are particulars which would allow me to divorce? How about adultery. Is that grouds for divorce, because this is what my pastor says.


Rich Aikers

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2003, 06:47:05 PM »
Rich,

My husband was an elder in the church we attended and this topic had to be addressed.  Here is the result of much study, and Scripture comparison.  I hope this will help you in this difficult matter.  I also hope you will find the courage, faith, and love to do what honors our Lord.


Sandy, thanks for the response. But is fornication the same as adultery. This is my wife who has committed adultery. Is that grounds for divorce according to the bible?

GoldRush

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2003, 07:50:01 PM »
Rich,

You say without knowing particulars, you can't say.


We meant the particulars of your personal situation.  For example, we do not know if your wife is still living with you, or if she has departed from you.  We do not know whether she is a believer in Jesus Christ or not.

Does that mean that there are particulars which would allow me to divorce?

No, the Scripture says clearly:

"A husband is not to divorce his wife."  I Cor. 7:11

How about adultery. Is that grouds for divorce, because this is what my
pastor says.


We are always loathe to speak against another's pastor, but in this instance we must to be faithful to God' word.  Your pastor is wrong.  And you mentioned you felt uneasy about what he told you, which means you also sense he is wrong.  

Adultery is not an excuse to divorce.  If your wife remains in your house, you must seek to find forgiveness in your heart for her sin and be a help to her to not repeat the sin.  If your wife has left you, you are to remain married and hope for reconciliation.

If she has left you and she instigates a divorce but does not remarry, you may have peace in the separation, but still hope to reconcile.  If she has left you, divorces you, and remarrys, then she has compounded her sin of adultery, and you may not reconcile with her again because of her defilement (Deut. 24:4) . . .but even then she remains your wife,
and you still are not free to remarry, lest you also commit adultery.

This is very important to consider.  If your wife divorces you for another, you are not guilty of adultery yourself, but you may not remarry. If you should divorce your wife, you become guilty of adulterating the marriage, along with your wife, and you may not remarry.

  Either way,  you must be prepared for a life of celibacy (Matt. 19:10-12), unless you stay with her.   This is the thing that many pastors fail to tell people (or simply do not want to believe.)

This is hard truth, but adultery is extremely serious.  Repentance and forgiveness are the only heals for an adulterated marriage.  For unrepentant or continued adultery will surely be condemned by God:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?  Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."  I Cor. 6:9&10

You must seek with all your heart to turn her away from this practice and teach her God's forgiveness through your own act of forgiving her.  You must help her to escape this condemnation and not do anything that might contribute to the adultery yourself.  Your eternal soul and her eternal soul are at stake, it is that serious.

Our hearts go out to you, and we pray for much strength for you to act carefully and obediently according to the Holy Scriptures.

J&R




GoldRush
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Doug Johnson

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2003, 09:06:39 AM »
Goldrush,
  I don't understand your advice. Why should he be strapped with a life of celibacy just because his wife made a mistake, or he made a mistake? Don't you believe in forgiveness? If he asks God isn't his and her sins forgiven? Isn't her sins forgiven so that they both can start fresh, get the iligitimate marriage annuled and mary another so they can be happy? God is a God of love and forgiveness.

Layla

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2003, 11:50:28 AM »
Greetings Doug

Thanks for joining this thread.  I have to tell you I was becoming "bothered" by some of these responses and was wondering if I was hearing the sounds of a "works" doctrine.


Romans 8:
3. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4. that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Peace,
Layla

GoldRush

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2003, 07:31:45 PM »
Our reply to the criticisms from Doug and Layla:

Doug:

Why should he be strapped with a life of celibacy just because his wife made a mistake, or he made a mistake?


When God joins two persons in marriage, it is for their lifetime, and man cannot put the union asunder.  No matter what the sins committed, the two people remain one flesh.  Marriage cannot be undone.

If the husband joins with another simply because the wife has sinned, the husband joins the wife in sin and also adulterates the existent marriage.

Don't you believe in forgiveness?

Didn't you carefully read our post?  Go back and read it again, and you will see the exhortation to forgive is placed upon the one offended.  The spouse must forgive the one who committed adultery.

What you are suggesting, is that the spouse who has been offended should be able to join with another, and God will forgive him for doing so.  Is that how a Christian handles temptation and sin?  Is that how a Christian faces life?  I will go and indulge my lusts and needs, and sin, but God will forgive me anyway?

That is testing God.  That is a fallacy.  That is not faith.

If he asks God isn't his and her sins forgiven? Isn't her sins forgiven so that they both can start fresh, get the iligitimate marriage annuled and mary another so they can be happy? God is a God of love and forgiveness.

Start fresh with additional marriages?  You equate forgiveness from God a justification to obliterate what God has joined together?  You deceive yourself, man.  God does not command one thing, and then ignore His own works and purposes, just because men and women sin.

God is not in the business of keeping mankind happy.  Marriage was instituted to reveal to mankind the faithful relationship of Jesus Christ with His church and the grace Christ shows His bride; forgiving her all sins with unconditional love.  A man is to love his wife just like Jesus Christ loves his church.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her."  Ephesians 5:25

The offended spouse must be willing to forgive and place the well-being of his mate and the marriage in first place.  Self-serving lusts, must be sacrificed, in order to faithfully preserve the union.


Layla:

 I have to tell you I was becoming "bothered" by some of these responses and was wondering if I was hearing the sounds of a "works" doctrine.



No, this is not a "works" doctrine.  This is a "faithfulness" and "obedience" doctrine.  

If you do not know the difference, it is good you are here to learn.  

J&R
GoldRush
". . Without Me, you can do nothing."
  John 15:5

Layla

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2003, 10:20:15 PM »
Quote
No, this is not a "works" doctrine.  This is a "faithfulness" and "obedience" doctrine.  

If you do not know the difference, it is good you are here to learn.    

Greetings Goldrush,

I understand faithfulness and obedience.  I also understand that Christ fulfilled the law.  Does this give us liberty to sin...God forbid!  I am not here to teach and I am not here to learn.  I am here for fellowship with many who are well learned in the word.  The Holy Spirit teaches me.  Just because you or anyone else writes something, it doesn't make it truth.  The fact is, the gentlemen spoke of his wife committing adultery.  You only need to read his words to know that he is struggling with this.  What shall he do, go on with a marriage where there is no trust?  Perhaps his pain is more than he can bear.  Scripture was given:

Mat 19:9  And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

His wife commited adultery.  He is free to divorce her, why do you attempt to bind him with the letter of the law where none exists because of his faithfulness to Jesus Christ.  This is how I see things.  I did not mean to imply you personally were teaching a works doctrine.  And I meant to offend none. I was stating that in viewing the responses, they were beginning to ring of "works" ever so subtly.  I am not posting across this forum attempting to teach my understandings, but I thought the forum was free enough to allow the sharing of personal opinions or understandings.

Peace,
Layla

GoldRush

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2003, 10:59:00 PM »
Layla,

I am not here to teach and I am not here to learn.  


So why are you here?

You only need to read his words to know that he is struggling with this.  What shall he do, go on with a marriage where there is no trust?

Yep.  Did Christ base His forgiveness of our sins based upon any trust in our humanness?  No.  Christ forgave us according to His inherent attributes of grace, love, and righteousness.

Just because you or anyone else writes something, it doesn't make it truth.


Indeed.  That is why we post giving Scriptural reference.  Maybe you did not bother to read the Scriptural references.  (We find this is a common omission of those who participate on discussion boards.)

What shall he do, go on with a marriage where there is no trust?  


You betcha . . .if Rich trusts in God.

Trust is only rebuilt through forgiveness and help.

His wife commited
adultery.  He is free to divorce her


This is not biblical truth.   You do not understand the full context  of the response of Jesus in Matt. 19:9 and do not even bother to search for what preceded this in Matthew 19:8&9.  You are falling prey to proof-texting, just to suit your opinions.

why do you attempt to bind him with the letter of the law

Every husband or wife is bound by the principles of marriage for life.  That is an immutable fact, that has never been changed by God.



 I thought the forum was free enough to allow the sharing of personal opinions or understandings.


This forum is only open to the sharing of Scripture presenting God's truths.  Scripture is required to interpret and teach every other Scripture presented, and no private interpretations are welcomed or entertained.



J&R
GoldRush
". . Without Me, you can do nothing."
  John 15:5

andreas

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2003, 11:28:30 PM »
<<<But is fornication the same as adultery.>>>
Fornication is not the same as adultery.We have two different words.The word "porneia" is used in Matt  5:32, 19:9, and Matt. 15:19 ,where it is used alongside "moiheia".In John 8:41 the word "porneia" is used instead of "moicheia" "Porneia" means fornication and "moicheia" adultery.Two words two meanings.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs di¢ udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

andreas

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Re: Marriage And Divorce
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2003, 11:51:19 PM »
<<<I am not here to teach and I am not here to learn. >>>
For those of us who are here to learn, the word of God gives us the answer regarding divorce and remarriage.
Even if divorce is inevitable,the person who divorces should not remarry.1 Corr.7:10-11.
Remarriage is only legitimate after the death of a spouse.1 Corr.7:39,and Rom.7:1-3.
The flesh relationship is not obliterated by divorce or remarriage.Deut.24:1-4.
All remarriage after divorce is adultery.Luke 16:18.
All remarriage after divorce is adultery.Mark 10:11-12.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs di¢ udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

 


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