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Author Topic: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?  (Read 268 times)

Spencer

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What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« on: July 29, 2018, 03:15:40 PM »
Hello Fellow Saints,
  I was reading the thread "A Star Fall From Heaven" and I must admit that I was intrigued by the idea that some here hold that stars in Revelation represent god's messengers. Which got me thinking about this passage in chapter 8.

Revelation 8:10-11  "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Could the star in this passage represent god's messenger, and if so why is it a single star, why is it named wormwood and what do the rivers and waters represent? Thanks in advance for your faithful and critical explanation or interpretation of the text.

 

Dan

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 12:38:48 PM »
I can tell you that someone here is going to tell you it's spiritual, but do not buy that. This is from a excerpt from a Premillennial explanation of the events. Start here.

“Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter” (Revelation 8:10-11).

Revelation 8 covers the first four out of seven trumpet judgments, poured out in response to the prayers of the saints (vs. 4; cf. Rev. 6:10). The first trumpet involved the burning up of a third of the trees and all of the grass (vs. 7), and the second trumpet involved a third of the sea turning to blood and the death of a third of the living creatures in the sea (vss. 8-9). 

Rev. 8:10-11, quoted above, details the third trumpet and speaks of a “great star” falling from heaven, “burning like a torch,” causing many deaths as a third of the rivers and springs of water become wormwood (bitter). As Steve Gregg, the author of Revelation: Four Views (A Parallel Commentary) points out, some futurists interpret this trumpet judgment symbolically, as referring either to a future Antichrist (e.g. Arno Gaebelein) or a future Pope (e.g. H.A. Ironside) who causes much corruption (Gregg, pp. 161, 163). Other futurist interpreters (e.g. Henry Morris, Charles Ryrie, John Walvoord) see this as a literal reference to a burning meteorite or “a giant set of meteors” that will enter earth’s atmosphere “with contaminating influence upon the rivers and waters” of the entire planet (p. 165). Steve Gregg’s articulation of the Preterist (fulfilled) interpretation reflects my own understanding:

The turning of fresh water sources bitter and toxic may be in part a literal result of the decaying corpses that lay in the Sea of Galilee and in the river as the result of war [i.e. the Roman-Jewish War of 67-73 AD]. However, this fouling of the waters has symbolic significance, occurring as it does here to the nation of Israel. There is probably an intentional allusion to the promise (and implied threat) God made to Israel when they first came out of Egypt. When they came to the bitter waters of Marah, in response to Moses’ casting a tree into the waters, God made the waters sweet and wholesome… However, God’s promise/warning implies that their disobedience to Him will result in His placing upon them the same plagues that He placed on the Egyptians—the waters can be made bitter again [cf. Exodus 15:25-26, Deuteronomy 28:59-60]… It is noteworthy that throughout the pages of Revelation, the plagues that come upon the apostates are comparable to those with which God afflicted the Egyptians in the days of Moses [See the end of this article for a list of more of these parallels]. The star which was burning like a torch (v. 10) is reminiscent of the tree cast into the waters by Moses, but has the opposite effect (pp. 160, 162).

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2018, 08:24:40 AM »
Spencer,
  First I would suggest you not follow along with arbitrary interpretations based on the imaginations of men in this world. Wormwood is a bitter herb and God uses this to symbolize the deterioration of faithfully following his word.

Amos 5:7
  • "Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,"

 The star falling is the messenger of the church falling from faithfulness and making the church polluted. The rivers and fountains of waters represent the churches and those in it who die represent the people there.


Doug Johnson

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 08:13:41 PM »
by Renton405
Posted Jul '07

Ive been reading Revelation in the Haydock Douay Rheims and I came across an interesting interperatation of Revelation in Chapter IX… Where it says:

Revelation Chapter 9

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Haydock Commentary says the fallen star might have been Martin Luther:

*Ver. 1. The fifth Angel…and I saw a star, &c. This again may be to represent the confusion of all things in antichrist’s time, or it may signify the fall and apostacy of great and learned men from the Christian faith. Bossuet applies it to the fall of Theodotus, of Byzantium, towards the end of the second age; but certainly no great stress can be laid on such arbitrary applications, which it is no hard matter to invent, as may be seen by the different fancies we may meet with about the locusts, &c. (Witham) — Here is a description of the rise and progress of the reformation. This trumpet begins with announcing to us the fall of a star from heaven; a very just emblem of the apostacy of Luther, who in quality of a priest and religious man is styled a star, but renouncing the faith and vows, may truly be said to have fallen from heaven upon the earth. (Pastorini, hic.[here]) — To him (i.e. to the Angel, not to the fallen star) was given the key of the bottomless pit, which properly signifies hell. (Witham)

Ver. 2. And the smoke, &c. Luther and his followers propagated and defended their new doctrines with such heat and violence, as to occasion every where seditions and insurrections, which they seemed to glory in. Luther openly boasted of it. “You complain,” said he, “that by our gospel the world is become more tumultuous; I answer, God be thanked for it; these things I would have so to be, and woe to me if such things were not.” — The sun was darkened, &c. The light of faith, which is the word of God, may well be represented by the sun, according to that of the Psalm cxviii. 105. “Thy word, O Lord, is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my paths.” And as the air is the spring of man’s respiration and life, it may be a just type of morality, which gives spiritual life and worth to all human actions. By the sun, therefore, and air being darkened, we are to understand faith and morality obscured and perverted by the novel doctrines of the reformers. (Pastorini, hic.[here])*

Kinda interesting I thought…Have there been many Catholics with this view?? Apparently it says the fallen star was someone with good standing(like a priest) but fell(excommunicated)…I always thought it might have to do with the fall of Satan because the War in heaven starts soon after with St. Michael…I wonder what the Jerome Commentary says about this or the Navarre…

Dwight

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 10:31:03 AM »
If the star is named wormwood, then wormwood is the character of the star. Bitter or poison or something bad. Revelation identifies the stars as symbolic of messengers of the church. Using that biblical criteria, this refers to a messenger of the church whose character is bitter and poisonous.

Erik Diamond

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 11:41:20 AM »

Revelation 8:10-11 KJV
[10]  And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
[11]  And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

The heaven is the kingdom of heaven where the congregation dwells. A star represents a messenger of the congregation.  The water represents Gospel. The third part represents the corporate believers of the congregation which are under judgment of God.   

So Revelation 8:10-11 is talking about the fall of an unfaithful messengers of the congregation that turn the water into bitter specifically for people within the congregation who are deceived to drink it. And the result is many people of the congregation will spiritually die.  In other words, they won't be able find salvation even if they seek to be saved or have the desire to be saved. It is because they are deceived by drinking the bitter or poison water (false gospel) coming out of the mouths of false prophets and christs.  Revelation 9 is speaking about the same event from different perspective.


Revelation 9:1-6 KJV
[1]  And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
[2]  And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
[3]  And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4]  And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5]  And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6]  And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

This is the judgment of the unfaithful congregation prior to Second Coming.
 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dwight

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 11:49:36 AM »
 :iagree: No more of this "the star is a literal star or a nuclear bomb" business. Scripture is interpreted by scripture.

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 03:07:45 PM »
>>>
Revelation 8:10-11  "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Could the star in this passage represent god's messenger...
<<<

Yes, I believe the star in this passage and others are to represent the messenger of the church. In fact, this symbolism is reveal by God Himself in the beginning as representing His messenger of the church as our example.

Revelation 1:20
  • "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Here, without ambiguity, God Himself tells us the secret mystery of the symbolism of what the stars in Revelation would illustrate. He says that these stars were to represent His Messengers (not angels) of the churches. And it is a mystery that was also revealed as always representing the people of His congregation. e.g.

Daniel 8:10
  • "And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."

Why would anyone think this refers to literal stars when we know literal stars cannot be cast down to the earth from heaven without "totally" destroying the earth. ..even a so-called small one. Obviously this is symbolic language just as we see in Revelation, and the stars refer to the messengers of God's church on earth. When Daniel says these stars were cast down by the  little horn, it refers to those of His congregation being overcome by Satan. Or again as indeed we saw in Revelation chapter 12.

Revelation 12:3-4
  • "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."
  • And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

Here the same third part of the stars cast down in the time of Christ's coming refers to the same people of the Lord's congregation. It's no coincidence then that Revelation chapter 8 speaks of this great star from heaven burning as a lamp falling upon the third part of the rivers and fountains of waters. Learn the symbolism of Revelation chapter 12 and you learn the symbolism of Revelation chapter 8. There is no physical woman flaoting in physical heaven having 12 physical stars on her physical head, and Satan is not a physical Dragon, who has a great tail and is residing in physical heaven with this woman and casting down her literal stars to the literal earth. As we see in the "key" revealed in the beginning of Revelation (for our learning) the stars represent the messengers of the church. Satan casts them down by overcoming them where ultimately God brings judgment upon so that they are no longer representatives of the Kingdom of heaven. The Kingdom is in effect removed from them, as also is represented by Christ in passages such as Matthew 11:12 and 21:43. In these instances the kingdom of heaven is representing God's congregation on earth.

It is my view that the star is the messenger of the church as signified and plainly interpreted for us in Revelation 1-3; 1:20 by Christ. It is the pastor, leader, minister, messenger of the church, whom Christ addressed in Revelation chapter 2 and 3 saying that the star (messenger) of His church had fallen from it's place, forgotten his first love, and pronounced dire consequences upon this messenger's church if he didn't repent. God tells this star.

Revelation 2:5
  • "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

The Candlestick God Himself revealed "represented" the church. So here we see God clearly using the symbolic language of this star being His messenger and being a fallen star, and that he was to remember from where he had fallen, or else suffer God's udgment. This a precursor to Revelation chapter 8 and the star indeed does fall and judgment indeed does come upon his church. What was Christ's warning to this star? He said that if he didn't repent, He would bring the judgment of removing his candlestick (church) out of its place. So clearly / Unambiguously God is not talking about a literal star falling. This is the meaning of the symbolism of the star falling and this judgment upon the rivers and fountains of waters with this bitter poison of wormwood.


Quote
>>>
...and if so why is it a single star,
<<<

The same reason everything is spoken as unto a single person. Because every person God warns, instructs and encourages is representative of all of us. Just as all His warnings and encouragements to the "messenger of each" of the 7 churches to is the universal church. God is addressing the messenger of the church throughout time. The 7 churches of Asia are symbolic of the catholic (universal) church. The number 7 signifies the completeness/totality of whatever is in view in the Bible. As in the 7 days of creation and rest, the ordinance of sprinkling the blood 7 times, the 7 seals, the 7 spirits of God, the 7 thunders, the 7 trumpets and on and on. This can also be clearly seen as God says Christ stands in the midst of the seven candlesticks with 7 stars in His hand. This signifies that Christ stands in the midst of all churches universally, "which are represented by these 7 churches" of Asia. Likewise, they are called seven golden candlesticks signifying that they are to be what the Old Testament called the [tamiyd], the 'Continual' or 'Daily.' i.e., they were to be the light of the world shinning continually. This can also be seen in the 7 stars of the 7 candlesticks (churches), which are these 7 messengers of the churches, and they are in God's right hand signifying His will and purpose. These are all the messengers of the churches whom God holds securely and who do His will (His right hand). The truth is, when God talks to these 7 churches, He is not talking to just those specific 7, He is talking to and warning all messengers of God's church universal. The totality of them which spans throughout time. We today are part of the seven (totality / universal) churches to whom God gives these warnings and encouragements. When He talks to one, He talks to all throughout time.

1st Timothy 1:1-2
  • "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
  • Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord."

When this speaks to Timothy, it speaks to all messengers of God universally. Is this letter to Timothy only or is it inspired for every single Christian that would ever read the Bible universally. This letter is God's word to all saints down throughout history. As are the messages to the 7 churches of Asaia. As is the message of this star falling, representing all stars who fall and bring wormwood to the representatives of God.


Quote
>>>
why is it named wormwood
<<<

Names in the bible (including many names of people) are an illustration of character, distinction or attributes. The star is named wormwood to signify the acidic and discordant nature of this messenger of God's church. His message is revealed of God as that which causes death to those of the fountains of waters. Throughout the Bible we see that wormwood is used as a symbol of the bitter grief that the iniquity of God's people brings, as
well as God's judgment of it upon them. Wormwood (like gall) is physically a bitter shrub or plant, and these words are used as a symbol to illustrate the source of bitterness and grief brought upon God's people. e.g.

Deuteronomy 29:18
  • "Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;"

God exhorts His people to faithfulness in order to avoid with all diligence, the rebellion against Him that produces judgment as wormwood. Apostasy begins in the heart of the messenger of God, and results in the people's destruction.

Jeremiah 23:15
  • "Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land."

The wormwood (signifying the bitterness of the Lord's prophets) God gives them is His judgment against them for their iniquity. This wormwood is such that it should bear such bitter fruit that it might poison and destroy the people because of their profaneness to desecrate God's house. The same principle follows in Revelation chapter 8. This star (this messenger) of God has forsaken his duty as the light of heaven and he is struck down that he goes forth to poison the fountain of living waters. By this messenger of the church the people in the rivers and fountains of waters, die.

Lamentations 3:15
  • "He hath filled me with bitterness, he hath made me drunken with wormwood."
Lamentations 3:19
  • "Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall."

This is great tribulation upon God's church as the messenger of it has fallen from his place and his teachings are an affliction and trouble for those of the fountains of waters. It is at this time of the church when those who "SEE" this abomination of darkness must come out, lest they should be made desolate along with the judged. A bitter end is come upon the unfaithful church.

Proverbs 5:3-4
  • "For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
  • But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword."

The Great harlot who destroys the Lord's people will fall even as Babylon falls, her wormwood a symbol of her judgment of God.

Jeremiah 9:15
  • "Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink."

Again, what people are in view here? It is God's own people. Because they have forsaken the Lord's laws that were set before them, and have not obeyed His word, instead choosing to walked after the imagination of their own heart. It's always the same reason, and the congregation of Revelation chapter 8 is no different than the congregation of Israel before her. They shall receive the same wormwood used throughout God's word as a symbol of thir iniquity and rebellion.


Quote
>>>
...and what do the rivers and waters represent?
<<<

The Rivers and fountains of waters are both synonyms for the church, and of course those dying in the waters must consequently be those in the church. The Lord Jesus Christ is the river of life and the fountain of living waters, and of course the Lord's people are His representatives. e.g.

Jeremiah 2:13
  • "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."

God is the fountain of waters and in representing Him as his messengers, we would naturally be signified as that on earth, just as He is the spiritual Holy City Jerusalem, and we are the spiritual Holy City Jerusalem. Just as we are signified as the body of Christ, as Sons of God and as Israel. Again in Jeremiah 2:13, God again refers to himself as the "fountain of living waters" and in Isaiah as the "river" opened in High places.

Zechariah 13:1
  • "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness."
Isaiah 41:17-18
  • "When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
  • I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water."

Here we see God using the same rivers and fountains of waters as a synonym for the church that is established with the coming of Christ, that the poor and needy shall come to drink of the waters of life.

The point I am making is that in representing this, the church is the waters are poisoned by this star. Of course seeing as Christ could never be poisoned, it has to be those on earth who represent Him. This messenger bringing wormwood to the waters making them bitter for those who would come and be healed. They die here because of this bitter wormwood from this fallen messenger.

Proverbs 5:4
  • "But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword."

Her end (the congregation), is through the God's judgment of a bitterness likened unto wormwood as she has fallen. She has no more "sound judgment" through the word of God. At this time it is like a famine of hearing the word of God. They can only hear the lies in deceivable unrighteousness and the doctrines of men that are antichrist. This judgment is sharp as the two edged sword, signifying the judgement of word of God. And it comes through this fallen messenger of the church.

Jeremiah 23:15
  • "Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land."

God calls this water (judgment) they are fed with wormwood, so also he makes the rivers and fountains of waters wormwood. Selah.

Jeremiah 9:15
  • "Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink."

The wormwood signifies God's bitter judgment because of their unfaithfulness and rebellion nature against His laws. The name of the star or messenger of Revelation 8:11 is called Wormwood because of the scriptures I gave you illustrating what it was. it's not a literal star, which is absurd because a star falling (actually it would have to fly to earth) would destroy the whole earth. The wormwood illustrates this falling of the star is symbolic, and a judgment upon God's people from God. ...as previously warned in Revelation chapter 2.


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"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

NoMass

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 05:08:08 PM »

Tony, I'm sorry but I just can't get my brain around your way-out there interpretations. They seem so far fetched, I would rather believe the star is pointing us to a bomb that is polluting the rivers or something. It just sounds so much more relatable to us as people.

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 07:51:04 PM »
I think they all made a excellent case for this and used scripture well to support it. I wouldn't call it "way out there" as much as some theories I have heard about it being one of the Popes or a comet and destroying a third of the earth or the star being the barbarian invasions of Attila or Genseric. None of which have a biblical foundation I might add.

So, what do you think the star is since you feel so strongly about it?

Spencer

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 03:34:07 AM »

Thank you all for your answers, they are much appreciated. I do have a better understanding of the chapter now. It requires much more study, but I have the general outline.

Spencer

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 10:20:06 AM »
Follow up questions. This star is said to be burning as it were a lamp. That would indicate light I would presume. Is that correct? The second question, why did it fall upon the third part of the rivers. What does the 3rd part represent.

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 01:49:47 PM »
Are you not listening to anything I say? You've got to stop allowing these amillennialists to poison your mind. The star is most likely a comet or small asteroid or maybe even a tactical nuclear warhead. Don't you know that can poison rivers? The turning of good water sources into bitter and toxic may also be a result of the very literal decay of corpses that lay in the Sea of Galilee as the result of war. Look to the literal first before you fall into the trap of the spiritualizers.

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 02:21:27 PM »
Quote
Are you not listening to anything I say?


No. We don't as long as you came up with some wild rants or speculations without some serious Scripture support. 

Quote
The star is most likely a comet or small asteroid or maybe even a tactical nuclear warhead.

Comet? Small Asteroid? Nuclear weapon? You do not know? Sounds like another carnal speculations from you because you do not seem to understand God's Word concerning star, river, third part, wormwood, etc. You are just making assumption based on what you read in popular science, Sky & Telescope, or author's books. You need to learn to compare Scripture with Scripture to find God's interpretation. 

Quote
The turning of good water sources into bitter and toxic may also be a result of the very literal decay of corpses that lay in the Sea of Galilee as the result of war.

Chapter and verse please where God talked about the corpses in the Sea of Galilee as a result.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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