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Author Topic: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?  (Read 1787 times)

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 06:30:41 AM »
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Follow up questions. This star is said to be burning as it were a lamp. That would indicate light I would presume.
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Yes, that is yet another indication that this star represents the messenger of the church,. as the church is the Lampstand. i.e., the place for the light, the candlestick. The star burning as a lamp illustrates thisis a messenger of the church.



Again excerpt from the Revelation 8 study:

The word translated lamp is lampas, from the greek word [lampo] meaning to be luminous or brilliant and by extension to shine. It's the same word used in Matthew talking about the Church and how they were to as candles to shine.

Matthew 5:14-16
  • "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
  • Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
  • Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

the words "Giveth light" and "let your light" is [lampo]. It was this star's commission to shine as a lamp, but now this star, this messenger of the church is fallen (as was the one in Ephesus) and the result is that the waters in the fountains and rivers are poisoned so that men die because of it. This is the judgment the Lord promised the fallen star/messenger in Revelation 2 would happen if he didn't repent. His church would be removed out of its place. The Lord's word is true and faithful.


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The second question, why did it fall upon the third part of the rivers. What does the 3rd part represent.
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Concerning the division, I believe that this third part is the unfaithful church. The number three illustrates God's will or purpose. I believe its inclusion here takes us back to the congregation of the Lord, where the third part was the offering unto the Lord for sin and service. For example:

Nehemiah 10:32
  • "Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the service of the house of our God;"

This offering of the third part of the waters in Revelation 8 is representing the gospel service of the house of our God, and it is now polluted because of this fallen star/messenger. It is then become the service of poisonous waters of death. This messengers abominations do not bring the thirsty and needy into the house of God anymore, it brings men death. The third part here is not for the elect who cannot be harmed by poison (Mark chapter 16:18), but the unfaithful/lawless who are blinded by the messenger and cannot see the abominations in God's house. It will leave them as desolate as it left the fallen stars of national Israel (Revelation 12).

As for the number three, God often uses the number three to signify His purpose in judgment against His people. For example as the Lord spoke to His Holy city Jerusalem in Ezekiel chapter 5 concerning His judgments because they had not walked in His statutes or kept His judgments. Therefore the Lord said there that He was against them and would execute judgments in the midst of that city in the sight of the nations. He then pronounced His judgment this way:

Ezekiel 5:12-13
  • "A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.
  • Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them."

The same principle applies here. This third part is symbolic of His will and purpose in judgment against His people for their rebellion and refusal to be obedient to His word. Likewise, this third part in Revelation chapter 8 are not the elect, but the nfaithful who are appointed to God's wrath because of their lawlessness and rebellion.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"



ZeroCool

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 11:17:38 AM »
Thanks Tony. You seem to understand these cryptic writings very well. What's your secret?

George

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 11:36:12 AM »
Thanks Tony. You seem to understand these cryptic writings very well. What's your secret?

Is his secret people who don't check out his theories and consider the dispensational truth?

The fact is, great theologians like Henry Morris, Charles Ryrie and Dr. John Walvoord see this as a literal reference to a burning meteorite or “a giant set of meteors” that will enter earth’s atmosphere “with contaminating influence upon the rivers and waters” of the entire planet. I'll take their word any day over spiritualizing.

NoMass

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2018, 08:28:21 AM »
I still don't get it. What's the difference between Dan's interpretation and Tony's interpretation? I don't get it.

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2018, 12:18:20 PM »
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What's your secret?
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There is no secret. A sound hermeneutic is not a mystery, it's by faithfulness to Scripture and grace of God. The Jews of Bereans had it, the Scribes and Pharisees didn't.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is The Falling Star Named Wormwood?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2018, 12:42:54 PM »
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Tony, I'm sorry but I just can't get my brain around your way-out there interpretations.
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Well, the understanding of the kingdom of heaven is way out there. Didn't God say "I will tell you the mystery/secret of the 7 stars and Candlesticks," and didn't He say the understanding of the stars and candlesticks were that "the stars were the Messengers" and "the Cadlesticks/lampstands were the churches?" And so what part of God's interpretation of stars as messengers of "His church" is hard to comprehend? Moreover, contrary to what some have said, that interpretation is not an isolated instance, as God symbolized the 12 tribes of Israel as 12 stars. Or again where we read plainly:

Daniel 8:9-10
  • "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
  • And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."

Unless of course you believe that there is a literal great goat in heaven with a little horn that can cast down literal stars to the ground and then stamp upon them? No, horns symbolize "power" and the "stars" symbolize God's messengers. So is it "out there" that God again uses this cryptic language of stars of heaven to signify the people of his congregation? If "out there" is the Spiritual realm of God's truth, OK.


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They seem so far fetched, I would rather believe the star is pointing us to a bomb that is polluting the rivers or something.
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Key phrase, "I would rather believe." In fact, it's not about what I would rather believe, God's people can't let personal preference interfere with sound exegesis, they follow wherever the word of God leads them. If you think interpreting a star by God's own word declaring that it is the messenger of His church (Revelation 1:20) is far fetched, by what system of interpretation do you come to the conclusion that it is a bomb? Does God anywhere in Scripture say that a star is symbolic of a bomb? Because He sure says a star is symbolic of the Messenger of His church. So once again, it gets back to what system or hermeneutic we use. Exegesis vs eisegesis.


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It just sounds so much more relatable to us as people.
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Eccleseastes 1:9
  • "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

The thing about the Bible is that (despite what its detractor's say) it is consistent. Would it sound so much more relatable to Moses, King David, to Daniel or the apostles John, Peter and Paul? The Scriptures are timeless so that they are relatable to all people from all eras of this planet. That's why there is nothing new under the sun, because what goes around comes around and is found in Scripture. It is for this reason that the unfaithfulness of God's messengers depicted as stars cast down in the old Testament and stamped upon, is as relatable to the unfaithfulness of God's messengers depicted as stars and cast down in the New Testament era. In other words, the most important thing to glean from a sound hermeneutic or system of interpretation is harmony revealed in consistency.

Revelation 12:1-4
  • "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
  • And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
  • And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
  • And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

These stars are understood the very same way that the stars stamped upon in the book of Daniel are understood. The same as the stars of Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are understood as the messengers of God's congregation. There's no Dragon in heaven whose tail cast down stars anymore than in Daniel there was a great goat in heaven who's little horn cast down stars. It is God's symbolism illustrating a falling away of His messengers from the truth. It's a timeless/consistent message, but not a universally understood one. That's why our Lord says, he who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 24:15-16
  • "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
  • Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

Do you know why all will not "see" the abomination that makes desolate? It's because all have never "seen" the abominations stand in the holy place. Only those with the Spirit of truth see it.

Proverbs 25:2
  • "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

Like the more noble or honorable Bereans who "searched" out the matter, and God tells us therefore many of them believed. Selah.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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