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Author Topic: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?  (Read 971 times)

Melanie

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Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« on: April 16, 2018, 06:06:00 AM »
I was thinking this morning about the steady decline of children of Christian parents growing up to be Christians themselves, and thought I would add a poll to this question. Are Parents to blame for Christianity's Decline?

From my perspective I would say yes, but I am interested what you all think about this question because (generally speaking) I respect the opinions of most of you on biblical matters.  What do you think? Is it TV, Parents, liberals, politics or maybe even social networking?

Stan Pat

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 08:27:31 AM »
Is it TV, Parents, liberals, politics or maybe even social networking?

All of the above.

William B

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 04:44:24 PM »
I'd say it's more the church becoming more liberal and allowing more political and social doctrines to change and dilute the truth so that the gospel Christianity is no longer respected. Even unsaved people can see hypocrisy.


Herman Stowe

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 09:53:46 PM »
I was thinking this morning about the steady decline of children of Christian parents growing up to be Christians themselves

Melanie,
   I think that you are correct. And the proof is that God said it long ago when he gave the perfect advice that is proven to be true today. If you don't train up your children in the way of the Lord, they won't grow up following those paths. If you do, they will retain that training in some form or another. That's not secular philosophy, that's God's very own word.

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

This is not our own philosophy, this is what God himself says on the matter. If we as parents instruct our children in a Godly way they must go, they will grow up that way. Most Christians today will deny this because they don't want to take responsibility for their children growing up and abandoning Christianity. I hear Christians today saying that you can train up your children perfectly and they will still go away from Christianity. Well, are they not saying that God is lying when they claim that? Are they not saying what God said in Proverbs isn't true? Of course I know that not every child will, but that doesn't change the principle God laid down here does it? This principle is forsaken today.

I would say of course parents are the most responsible for the steady decline of children of Christian parents growing up to be non Christians. It's obvious to me. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. Beside from the biblical evidence from scripture itself, I witness parenting first hand and I see with my own eyes the lack of discipline and training in the way they should go.

Betty

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 03:36:56 AM »
Christian children are rebelling because of the Christian right movement that makes it seem like God is always angry. God is a God of love, and compassion. And this is what is missing in the church. You can't suffocate kids by not allowing them to do what all the other kids do. Nor can you always give them hell fire and damnation trying to scare them, because the children today are too smart for that. If you are strict on your children, you will drive them away from the church, not closer to it. And that's what has happened.

Doug Johnson

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 05:17:47 AM »
Parents aren't responsible for a vibrant and healthy church, the One True Holy Church is.

Dan

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 06:52:24 AM »
I somewhat agree with Betty. I really don't think that there is any evidence that parents are to blame for Christianity's decline. But I would also disagree with Betty because I think that it is more because of liberals and democrats who are continually pushing the envelope of immorality and spiritualizing the literal understanding of scripture. How are parents going to compete against the onslaught of liberalism? What we have to do is take back America from the liberal establishments. Put our children in Christian schools. Forbid them to associate with Democrats. Only then can we bring back Christian values to our children.

Simon

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 09:44:30 AM »
Betty thinks it's because of the Christian right movement and Dan thinks it's because of the liberal Democrats. No wonder the church is in disarray when Christians don't even know the difference between church from state.  ::)

Laura Tomlinson

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 02:08:31 AM »
If you are strict on your children, you will drive them away from the church, not closer to it. And that's what has happened.

Betty Come on. Did you read that in a fortune cookie, hear it on the View, or saw it while watching 60 minutes? Because it sure isn't from the bible. Since when is God's strictness been a obstacle to salvation? The obstacle is libertarian Christian parents who believe in all sorts of liberties that are against God's word.

Tony Warren

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 05:24:54 AM »
>>>
Christian children are rebelling because of the Christian right movement that makes it seem like God is always angry.
<<<

The Christian right doesn't make it seem like God is always angry, unbelievers take that tact because they want to justify their beliefs that either there is no God, God is hypocritical, or that His judgments are a contradiction to love. They perpetrate this ruse because the unsaved world is deceitful, lacks humility, is egocentric, has no fear of God, hates His laws with a passion, and are offended by His insistences and mandates at every turn. Saying God is always angry is their way of flattering themselves that they are good, notwithstanding all their iniquities. The unpalatable truth is, the unsaved live in their own little world of self-flattery. In other words, their high opinion of themselves keeps them ignorant of both their true character and God's true character. Why then should they fear God?

Psalms 36:1-3
  • "The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
  • For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.
  • The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good."

Because "IF" the word of God is true, and there is recompense and holy justice, then the unbeliever is found to be unrighteous, unclean, unwise and foolish in what he believes. Therefore, in their minds (and worldly definitions) an angry God is a unjust and non-loving God. This rationale has nothing to do with the children of Christian parents forsaking the way, the truth and the life. Nor the Christian right or left. It has to do with a desperately wicked heart so that no one can know it.


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God is a God of love, and compassion. 
<<<

Yes, God is a God of love and Compassion. God is also a God of judgment and condemnation, and God is a God of distinction, separation and division. His people are to be a peculiar or particular breed, a chosen generation/family that is set apart from and unlike the rest of the world.

2nd Corinthians 6:17
  • "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,"

We can't just say God is a God of love "AS IF" that negates or contradicts everything else that God is. Yes, God is a God of compassion, but God is also a God of reckoning, repayment, justice, vengeance and retribution. None of which contradicts Him being a God of love, mercy and compassion. Only in the vain imaginative minds of the rest of the world.


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And this is what is missing in the church.
<<<

No, what is missing in the church is the spirit of obedience, the spirit of separation from the world, and of surrender to Godly instruction. Christ's true LORDSHIP over them is what is missing. You speak of love, but love is not found allowing our Christian children conform to the world under the guise of we'll drive them away if we don't give them worldly liberty. That's not love. True Christian love is to teach our children not to be, live and do as the world does. That is decidedly not being too strict, nor is it burdensome. God's love is in our instructing them in the wisdom of being separate and set apart from the world. It's the exact opposite of what you are implying.

Psalms 32:8-9
  • "I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
  • Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee."

As Melanie said, when God says to parents (Proverbs 22:6) to train their children in the way they should go and they will not depart from it when they are old, that is His answer to sublunary philosophies, social engineering and worldly denials that it will work. Of course it won't work when professing Christians, brainwashed by the sound of their own humanistic voices, have already made their minds up that it won't work. The only question is, do we really trust God's word over these denials of men?


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>>>
You can't suffocate kids by not allowing them to do what all the other kids do.
<<<

On the contrary, to not allow them to do what the other kids who are not Christian do is precisely what God wants. That's why God told the children of Israel "not" to mingle with the people of the lands around them lest they cause them to stumble and serve their gods. As saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun.

James 4:4-5
  • "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
  • Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?"/li]
What you are talking about God equates to spiritual adultery, the idolatry of going after other rulers, masters or lords. Serving other gods. Far from feeding a spirit in our Christian children to envy the kids of the world, parents should educate them about true love, compassion and condolement for the kids of the world. For it is they who are at risk and indeed in dire need of our sympathy rather than our envy. Far from suffocating them by not allowing our children to be friends with the world, parents are giving them the breath of life in re-acquainting them with the God authored partition and disunion between us and the world, of light with darkness, of how the world is not their friend at all, it is their foe. You say Christian kids should be allowed to do what other kids (implied unsaved) do, but that is why there is a contrast between us. Parents should teach them of that contrast, that they are a separate, a holy people, a special people, a chosen people set apart from the others of the world. In fact, I believe that this lack of telling them this Spiritual reality is "really" what is detrimental to young Christian discipleship. The snare that opens up their minds to lust to envy and causes them to be seduced.


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 Nor can you always give them hell fire and damnation trying to scare them, because the children today are too smart for that.
<<<

Hell fire and damnation is a fact of God's word, not a mythical Bogeyman. Bearing witness to Gods retribution against sinners is not trying to scare them, it's trying to warn them. If God's faithful witnesses don't give warning of God's coming vengeance, who will? It's all well and good to tell someone they are saved, but the question remains, saved from what? Is it not hell fire and damnation? Is not the wages of sin death? Did not God say there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? Why would any servant of the Lord neglect these truths? Scare them? Maybe they should be scared. Scared of living like the world.

Ezekiel 33:7-9
  • "So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
  • When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
  • Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul."

In effect you are saying, give no warning that the wages of their sin is Hell and Death, let the children die in their sins without warning? You say the children of today is too smart for that?

1st Corinthians 3:18-21
  • "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
  • For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
  • And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
  • Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;"

I tell you, if the children of today are too smart for that, then they are too smart for their own good. I can say without fear of contradiction that a parent witnessing and warning his children of the vengeance of God against the world, will drive NO ONE from the church but the son/child of perdition. For of those given, Christ will lose "none" except that son.


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 If you are strict on your children, you will drive them away from the church, not closer to it.
<<<

If you are not strict, authoritarian, stern, punctilious, tough and disciplinary with your children, that will drive them away from the church. Yes, I understand that in the post modern church this goes against the social mores or norms but it is in accord with the word of God. The word strict meaning to unabashedly, unrestrictedly telling your child to do as the Lord actually says, and not what they want. i.e., telling them not to remove themselves from having Him be Lord over them?

Luke 6:46
  • "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

Why indeed! Parents should value teaching strict obedience to God's word, instead many compromise with the world and effectively regard His law as a hindrance to faith. That "is" strong delusion. Why would anyone think they have a Lord/Master/Ruler if they think His will too strict, so that they have to refuse to have their children be subject to it?  The truth is, most Christian parents today wouldn't know strict if jumped up and bit them. It simply means God's restrictive laws, the faithful teaching of our children what they should and shouldn't do. The witness that they should do certain things that unbelievers do. Strict is a good thing, not something to whine about or believe it's not God authored. And since "strict" is on the verge of extinction in our day, it most definitely isn't the reason children today are driven from the church. They are driven from the church by a spirit in them, a spirit of disobedience. This idea of "too strict" is just another convenient excuse for parents not to train up their children in the way they should go.

Proverbs 23:12-14
  • "Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
  • Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
  • Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

What is the modern retort to Gods word?   "...wrong God, this will only serve to drive these children away from you?" or "...why are you mentioning Hell, kids today are too smart for that?" or "...that type of punishment only makes children violent, it doesn't work, it's been proven scientifically?" That's the way of the world. But as for me and my house, we will surrender to the authority of the creator over the creation.


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 And that's what has happened.
<<<

That's decidedly not what has happened today. In fact I would say it's just the opposite. Christian parents today are generally not strict at all with their children, and that lack of law, reverent instruction, separation, structure and discipline, I believe is at the root of the decline of our youth in maintaining discipleship. This idea that without the strict instruction and teaching of the law, there will be faithful children, is bankrupt or destitute of any real merit. That's why we have such permissiveness in the world today, because the laws against it have been abrogated. Divorce, Gambling, Homosexuality, Abortions, Etc.,  have all grown exponentially once the "strict" laws against it were loosened. How much more the rebellion of children once the laws in the church regarding the rearing of our children became lax. Children "need" a strict upbringing according to God's law. Train up a child in the way she should go, and when he is old he will retain that training. God willing, he then passes it on to his children and so on and so forth. But parents are not listening to God anymore, not about children, divorce, homosexuality or divorce. It's deemed the unjust instruction of a angry Old Testament God. ..as if God wasn't immutable.

Proverbs 13:24
  • "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
Proverbs 19:18
  • "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Proverbs 22:15
  • "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Proverbs 29:15
  • "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

What type of God is this? ...it's a God of Love and Compassion for Children!

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Kevin Wright

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2018, 07:04:42 AM »
 ]ThUmBsUp[  )cLaPpInGg(  As usual, excellent retort Tony.  )God-Bless-You(

George

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 08:01:34 AM »
Tony, you are so long winded. A whole lotta talk and very little substance. You haven't proved that parents are neglecting their responsibility, at best you've only showed that they are not as strict as they once were. That doesn't equate to shirking their responsibility of rearing Godly children. Pastor's children are some of the worst, so are you telling me they didn't rear their children correctly?

Bruce

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 11:38:43 AM »
Judging by the very liberal views of Pastors today, Yes I would say that. Speaking for only myself, I would say yes. If their doctrines are wrong, their teachings, and therefore their training of others is wrong.

aquatic

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 01:26:32 PM »
Pastor's children are some of the worst, so are you telling me they didn't rear their children correctly?
Yes. You seem to believe that pastors can do no wrong.

George

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Re: Are Parents to Blame for Christianity's Decline?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2018, 04:30:28 AM »
Pastor's children are some of the worst, so are you telling me they didn't rear their children correctly?
Yes. You seem to believe that pastors can do no wrong.

No, but they train their children right, and their children still come out bad. What does that say to you?

 


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