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Author Topic: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?  (Read 1539 times)

Gerry

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Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« on: December 18, 2017, 09:28:46 AM »
I'm curious as to if you think that the new conservative evangelicals like John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jack Van Impe, Paula White, Jim Bakker, etc., are false prophets. More to the point, are most if not all conservative evangelicals preaching miracles, restoration of Israel and dispensationalism false prophets? I ask because Michael Horton, a theologian that I have much respect for, criticized these people as one of the reasons the church is in decline.

George

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 12:16:00 PM »
No, not at all. These are good God fearing Christians who are tired of the liberal model and want to bring us back to a literal and a moral understanding of scripture. I may not agree with everything that these Christians stand for, but they are good Christians who understand the duties of Christians in the relationship with Israel. I believe these people deep down just want to keep the church, country and Israel in a right relationship with God.

"Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:22"

Israel is God's people forever, and these Christians know that. But they're not perfect.


Lieberman

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 03:49:38 PM »
I ask because Michael Horton, a theologian that I have much respect for, criticized these people as one of the reasons the church is in decline.

When I look at that list of evangelicals, all I see are false prophets, not Christians. Not one of them hold to sound Christian doctrine. It's sad that the word evangelical has come to mean false prophet these days, while it once only meant those who publish the gospel. In fact, in the good way Michael Horton himself says he's a evangelical. I think we can thank televangelists and their political and word of faith gospels for that word becoming a negative and political word. It's like the word gay, it once meant being happy or joyful, but who uses it that way now for fear of it being misunderstood? 

As far as Michael Horton, he's a man of God and  also one of the few conservative Christians that can be honest about Donald Trump too (off topic).  I had to throw that info in there because there is so much justifying of this man's wickedness by many conservative and otherwise sound Christians that it's refreshing to hear one tell the truth. Michel is not afraid to call him out on his baiting, motivations, policies and evil nature just as he did Obama. I like that spirit of truth in my theologians.

The so called evangelicals usually have a narrative that makes Israel God's people, material things paramount, politics a sign of Christianity, eccumenism and compromise acceptable, and miracles and signs today acceptable of faith. So to answer your question, yes what they define as evangelicals today are in fact false prophets, and your list is as good as any showing that. But I wouldn't define them as conservative, I would define them as self serving, self centered, self promoting and autocratic. From your list, it's all about the money.

The definition of a false prophet is one who prophesies falsely. The evangelicals, or the people the world calls evangelicals  qualify.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 08:22:25 PM »
Quote
I'm curious as to if you think that the new conservative evangelicals like John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jack Van Impe, Paula White, Jim Bakker, etc., are false prophets. More to the point, are most if not all conservative evangelicals preaching miracles, restoration of Israel and dispensationalism false prophets?


I agree.

I believe Satan is a spirit who works through these men so they came with spirit of antichrist who are coming after the working of Satan with all the power and signs and lying wonders (2nd Thess 2:9-10).  Their doctrine on prosperity, entertainments, dispensational doctrine on national Israel, divorce and remarriage, etc. are all part of the working of Satan. In fact, these counterfeit Christians are starting to attack biblical Christianity, calling it unloving, and bearing false witness against those who holds truthful testimony. That is why there are many people who thought they are sent by God with power but are deceived.  That is why we must try or test their spirit to see if their word is in agreement with the Authority of the Word of God. If not, we should not believe these false prophets and depart out of their churches.

They are part of the army of Gog and Magog that is coming against church. IMHO, I do believe that we are in the middle of the battle of Armageddon.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 10:13:47 PM »
Let me add something.

False prophets like John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jack Van Impe, Paula White, Jim Bakker, Todd Bentley, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Steven Furtick, Marilyn Hickey, Benny Hinn, T.D. Jakes, Patricia King, Joyce Meyers, Joseph Prince,  Rick Warren, Ellen White, Paula White, etc. are one of MANY MANY false prophets and christs out there in the congregations of God all over the world.


Mat 24:4-5
[4]  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
[5]  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Mat 24:11-12
[11]  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12]  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

God is talking about the RISE of false teachers, false prophets, and false christs IN THE CHURCH. They are selling the doctrines of the Devil to satisfy the congregation the lust of the flesh.


That is why Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Joseph Prince, etc. are on the RISE. Why?

Because the people of the congregation does not desire God, but want or desire what false prophets say. Therefore, God will allow these false prophets to rise as His judgement upon them.  They will believe a lie that comes out of the mouth of false prophet! 


2Th 2:8-12
[8]  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9]  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10]  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12]  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
These false prophets are God's Judgment upon them by allowing Satan to come out of bottomless pit to deceive many and come into their churches to rule through men!
This is how Satan is revealed to us.


2Th 2:2-4
[2]  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[3]  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4]  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Red

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 04:56:49 AM »
Quote from: Gerry
Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
In our day, evangelical is a misnomer. Evangelical is by its common definiton~"a member of the evangelical tradition in the Christian Church." By God's defintion those of today's evangelicals who are called evangelicalist by the world are false prophets for they preach another gospel other than the one preached by Paul and explained to us in Galatians 2:16-Galatians 5:4~this is the main test that we are to try them by so see if they have the Spirit of Christ or the spirit of antichrist, the man of sin. They all teach an legal justification before God's law by the will and faith of man, a system based upon works and not pure grace. Of course, many other false doctrines flow from that corrupt system of another gospel upon which God pronounces a curse upon, upon which we are sometimes reluctant to do, but must do.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, etc.

Dan

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 06:05:45 AM »
 )Fighting( Michael Horton is of the reformed camp and has always been anti dispensationalist and pro amillennial spiritualizing. So it's not surprising that he would go after conservative evangelicals that take the bible literally. Beside, the bible says nothing about Christians wanting to be rich, in fact it promised them prosperity.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
Quote from: Dan
Beside, the bible says nothing about Christians wanting to be rich, in fact it promised them prosperity.

Really? Show us the chapter and verses where you have found as a fact that God promised Christians prosperity! No wonder you are deceived by prosperity false prophets.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Melanie

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 09:18:33 AM »
)Fighting( Michael Horton is of the reformed camp and has always been anti dispensationalist and pro amillennial

Sure. So am I, so is Ernest Reisinger, Prof. David J. Engelsma, Dr. Kim Riddlebarger, B.A., Dr. Ligon Duncan, Brian Schwertley, and on and on in the Biblical world. As is any and every "faithful" Christian that takes the word of God seriously. To be anti-dispensational is to stand with God in rejecting false doctrines about his kingdom. That's conservative, not that political "taken" theology that passes for evangelism.

"When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. Matthew 13:19"


Quote
it's not surprising that he would go after conservative evangelicals that take the bible literally.

These evangelicals take the Bible foolishly as if its a cook book. They are making Christ's kingdom earthly and carnal, rather than heavenly and spiritual. Usually they take the bible any way that will support their presuppositions about Israel, the political arena, their prosperity, the holy land, situation morality and works based deliverance. This has nothing to do with taking the bible literally or conservatively, since Reformed theology has always by nature been conservative Scripture based theology. Despite what the new breed of reformed Christians are now making it, there's nothing more biblical. Christ is not political, not prosperity driven, not nation of Israel driven, not seeker driven,  and not miraculous signs and charisma driven. These evangelicals are all that and more and that's why they are false.


Quote
Beside, the bible says nothing about Christians wanting to be rich, in fact it promised them prosperity.

The prosperity the bible promises Christians is not great physical riches, but great spiritual riches.

This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity. Psalm 116-24-25"

These so-called conservative evangelicals don't know anything about the true nature of the riches God brings, the bible or of real Christianity. They think it's all about physical prosperity, political fighting, and lifting up the nation of Israel, when it's all about love, humility and the Israel of God represented by all people from all nations and all walks of life.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28"

The chosen of God are Jew, Greek and Roman. None better than the other. But your conservative evangelicals have turned equal into alleged bias against Jews in some mixed up political theology that has no basis in truth.

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 11:18:15 AM »
I'm curious as to if you think that the new conservative evangelicals like John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jack Van Impe, Paula White, Jim Bakker, etc., are false prophets. More to the point, are most if not all conservative evangelicals preaching miracles, restoration of Israel and dispensationalism false prophets? I ask because Michael Horton, a theologian that I have much respect for, criticized these people as one of the reasons the church is in decline.

Gerry, I also respect Michael Horton of the white Horse Inn and his adherence to the Bible as much as anyone. So like I do with Tony Warren, when he speaks, I at least listen. Those evangelists you name from what I know of their theology are wolves in sheep's clothing. My answer would be a yes, they are more treasure seekers, political hacks and Zionists than real Christians.

Does anyone know where I could read some of these articles by Horton concerning these evangelicals?

Rich Aikers

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 12:14:12 PM »

There are a few, but I don't remember the sites where I read them. Here is one from White Horse Inn

"As a minister of the gospel, I’m neither called nor qualified to enter into the fray of public political commentary.  But the attraction of many evangelicals to Donald Trump reveals a lot about the churches in America.  How so?  See my article just published in Christianity Today."
-Michael Horton

 http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/march-web-only/theology-of-donald-trump.html.


Erik Diamond

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 01:37:13 PM »
Quote
Does anyone know where I could read some of these articles by Horton concerning these evangelicals?

Perhaps this is what you are looking for, Reformed Baptist?

Christ-less Christianity

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Diane Moody

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 02:19:10 PM »
Horton Says:

Quote
Is it possible that we have left Christ out of Christianity? Is the faith and practice of American Christians today more American than Christian? These are the provocative questions Michael Horton addresses in this well-received, insightful book. He argues that while we invoke the name of Christ, too often Christ and the Christ-centered gospel are pushed aside. The result is a message and a faith that are, in Horton's words, "trivial, sentimental, affirming, and irrelevant." This alternative "gospel" is a message of moralism, personal comfort, self-help, self-improvement, and individualistic religion. It trivializes God, making him a means to our selfish ends. Horton skillfully diagnoses the problem and points to the solution: a return to the unadulterated gospel of salvation.

I think that is what we all (well most) have been saying about the growing apostasy in the church today. That it's turned into another gospel. Either irrelevant or political, preaching personal comfort, faith healing or something else that trivializes God while concentrating on a country or countries. It's refreshing that at least one published theologian can look at what's going on today among us honestly without rose colored glasses.


Lieberman

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 02:57:28 PM »
Posted in Evangelical, False Teacher Alert, Word Faith Movement, False Prophets, False teachers, Apostasy

There is a excellent piece by Michael Horton who is an author, speaker and graduate of Westminster Seminary, and J. Gresham Machen professor of Theology and Apologetics at Westminster Seminary. Christians everywhere should take note of the evangelical horde bringing the church down to the world's level. The right wing evangelicals are turning the church into pay to pray, and the lord's people into merchandise and puppets of financial institutions. All at the expense of honesty and faithfulness.


Evangelicals Should be Deeply Troubled by Donald Trump’s Attempt to Mainstream Heresy
by Michael Horton

Donald Trump’s upcoming inauguration will include Paula White and possibly other members of his inner circle, Darrell Scott, “Apostle” Wayne T. Jackson and Mark Burns. They’re all televangelists who hail from the “prosperity gospel” camp. They advocate a brand of Pentecostal Christianity known as Word of Faith.

Inaugurations are always curious rituals of American civil religion. It would not be surprising to see a non-Christian religious leader participating. But what’s problematic for me as an evangelical is how Trump’s ceremony is helping to mainstream this heretical movement.

The prosperity gospel — the idea that God dispenses material wealth and health based on what we “decree” — is not just fluff. It’s also not just another branch of Pentecostalism, a tradition that emphasizes the continuation of the gifts of healing, prophecy and tongues. It’s another religion.

In terms of religion, this inauguration exhibits the confluence of two major currents of indigenous American spirituality.

One stream is represented by Norman Vincent Peale’s longtime bestseller “The Power of Positive Thinking” (1952). The famous Manhattan pastor is Trump’s tenuous connection to Christianity, having heard the preacher frequently in his youth. For Peale and his protege, the late Robert Schuller of Crystal Cathedral fame, the gospel of Christ’s death for human sin and resurrection for justification and everlasting life was transformed into a “feel-good” therapy. Self-esteem was the true salvation.

Another stream is represented by the most famous TV preachers, especially those associated with the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, Joel Osteen and Paula White are the stars of this movement, known as Word of Faith.

The headwater for both streams is New Thought, formulated especially by Phineas Quimby, a late 19th-century mesmerist whose mind-cures attracted Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science. The basic idea of his “gnostic medicine” was that we’re sick only because we think bad thoughts. Illness and death are an illusion.

Harvard’s William James took note of the phenomenon in his 1902 classic, “The Varieties of Religious Experience.” He described it as “an optimistic scheme of life” rooted in Emerson and “spiritism,” suggesting that even “Hinduism has contributed a strain.” “But the most characteristic feature of the mind-cure movement is an inspiration much more direct,” he surmised. “The leaders in this faith have had an intuitive belief in the all-saving power of healthy-minded attitudes as such …”

The Word of Faith movement was largely the brainchild of E.W. Kenyon (1867-1948), who blended Quimby’s Emersonian transcendentalism with his more evangelical “Victorious Life” beliefs. “I know that I am healed,” he wrote, “because [God] said that I am healed and it makes no difference what the symptoms may be in my body.” Kenyon shaped many of the distinctive Word of Faith teachings, including the central idea of “positive confession.” “What I confess, I possess,” he said — in other words, “name it, claim it.”

As a student of Kenyon, Kenneth Hagin, revered as “granddaddy” in Word of Faith circles, gave the faith-healing movement its theological core. It included odd teachings about us all being “little gods.” Those who are born again, Hagin said, “are as much the incarnation [of God] as Jesus of Nazareth.” “You don’t have a God living in you,” says Hagin’s student Kenneth Copeland. “You are one.” Creflo Dollar adds, “[The] only human part of you is the flesh you’re wearing.”

The positive-thinking movement appealed to urbane movers-and-shakers. Peale and Schuller were counselors to CEOs and U.S. presidents. Word of Faith has been more popular among rural sections of the Bible Belt, where faith healers have had a long and successful history. But in the 1980s, the two streams blended publicly, with Copeland, Hinn and Schuller showing up regularly together on TBN.

In the 1950s, American theologian Reinhold Niebuhr described Peale’s message as a false gospel: “The basic sin of this cult is its egocentricity,” he said. “It puts ‘self’ instead of the cross at the center of the picture.” The Word of Faith teachings, conveyed from Quimby via Kenyon and Hagin, are similarly centered on not making God a supporting actor in our life movie.

Televangelist White has a lot in common with Trump, besides being fans of Osteen. Both are in their third marriage and have endured decades of moral and financial scandal. According to family values spokesman James Dobson, another Trump adviser, White “personally led [Trump] to Christ.”

Like her mentor, T. D. Jakes, White adheres closely to the Word of Faith teachings. Besides throwing out doctrines like the Trinity and confusing ourselves with God, the movement teaches that Jesus went to the cross not to bring forgiveness of our sins but to get us out of financial debt, not to reconcile us to God but to give us the power to claim our prosperity, not to remove the curse of death, injustice and bondage to ourselves but to give us our best life now. White says emphatically that Jesus is “not the only begotten Son of God,” just the first. We’re all divine and have the power to speak worlds into existence.

So if you’re still a wreck, that’s your fault. Negative thinking. You’re the creator, so why not be a successful one? White puts it this way in a television TBN program: “There is creative power in your mouth right now. God spoke and created the universe; you have creative power to speak life and death! If you believe God, you can create anything in your life.”

Of course, to be a “little god,” you have to do your part, often involving a financial commitment. It’s what they call “seed faith.” White even gives her viewers the words to tell themselves: “So I’m going to activate my miracle by my obedience right now. I’m going to get up and go to the phone.” When you do that, she says, and “put a demand on the anointing,” you’re “going to make God get off His ivory throne.” “Don’t you miss this moment! If you miss your moment, you miss your miracle!” When Jesus raised Lazarus, according to the old King James Version, “his face was bound with a napkin.” It’s taken from John 11:44, so for everyone who sends $1144 (get it?), White said, she would send a napkin she blessed.

Some representatives, like Osteen, offer an easy-listening version that seems as harmless as a fortune cookie. It’s when he tries to interpret the Bible that he gets into trouble, as in his latest book, “The Power of I Am.” “Romans 4 says to ‘call the things that are not as though they were,’” he says, but the biblical passage is actually referring to God.

But it’s not really about God. In fact, one gets the impression that God isn’t necessary at all in the system. God set up these spiritual laws and if you know the secrets, you’re in charge of your destiny. You “release wealth,” as they often put it, by commanding it to come to you. “Anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan,” White told a television TBN audience in 2007. Oops. It was Jesus who said “anyone who would come after me” must “deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” (Matthew 16:24).

Most evangelical pastors I know would shake their heads at all of this. Southern Baptist leader Russell Moore tweeted, “Paula White is a charlatan and recognized as a heretic by every orthodox Christian, of whatever tribe.” Yet increasingly one wonders whether modified versions of the prosperity gospel — religion as personal therapy for our best life now — has become more mainstream than we realize.

Thanks to the First Amendment, Christian orthodoxy has never been a test for public office. But it is striking that Trump has surrounded himself with cadre of prosperity evangelists who cheerfully attack basic Christian doctrines. The focus of this unity is a gospel that is about as diametrically opposed to the biblical one as you can imagine.

Since “evangelical” comes from the word “gospel,” that should make more of a difference to those who wear the label than it does at the moment. The prosperity gospel may be our nation’s new civil religion. It doesn’t offend anyone (but picky Christians). It tells us everything we want to hear and nothing that we need to hear most.

--------

Michael Horton is author of “Core Christianity: Finding Yourself in God’s Story.” He blogs at http://www.whitehorseinn.org

Lieberman

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 06:01:04 AM »
Let me add something.

False prophets like John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jack Van Impe, Paula White, Jim Bakker, Todd Bentley, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Steven Furtick, Marilyn Hickey, Benny Hinn, T.D. Jakes, Patricia King, Joyce Meyers, Joseph Prince,  Rick Warren, Ellen White, Paula White, etc. are one of MANY MANY false prophets and christs out there in the congregations of God all over the world.

 )amen( I don't even understand why so many so called conservative Christians get on board with false prophets and justify it by politics. As far as Pat Robinson, that old man is the single most dangerous prophet to sound Christianity since the Pope. His influence over the Christian right wing and GOP is unchanged by his false and unhinged statements.) hasn't dimmed much at all. Not only is he a bit senile, but he has millions watching his false prophesies weekly. And like Trump he says some of the most outrageous and unhinged things and gets away with it. He claims that the government is gearing up to round up Americans for unspecified reasons. He teaches that you should cast demons out of secondhand clothes you buy, lest their previous owner’s evil infect you. The earthquake in Haiti was to punish Haitians for overthrowing slavery. His latest prophesy is  blaming the Vegas shooting on 'disrespect' for Trump.

  Spiritual Insanity anyone?

 


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