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Author Topic: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer  (Read 698 times)

Puritan Heart

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On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« on: November 15, 2017, 08:43:36 AM »
Greetings all,

Whilst doing some research on the same subject, earnestly desirous to deepen my relationship with our Heavenly Father, I happened upon this open letter, written by a man, for women.  Gentlemen and brothers in Christ, I know you too might read and benefit  :)

http://www.cke1st.com/sr_modst.htm

I realise that by posting this link, I open myself to particular insult and taunts, however, I choose to unapologetically post this in the hope that there might be other men and women, brothers and sisters in Christ who might be as deeply humbled as I was by the open and honest manner in how it reads.

Modesty is so much more than dressing ... comportment, attitudes, mannerisms ... the overall demeanour and disposition of a Godly woman must surely be the most Beautiful creature to behold, similarly, a Godly man, one who is confident of his Christlike masculinity and asserts himself with gentle kindness towards the weaker than he.

As followers of Christ, we are besieged by every manner of evil, beginning in our very homes through TV ... the insidious attacks of the evil one have sadly become culturally acceptable and we are at all times to be on our guard !!

I Corinthians 10 v 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Whilst we strive to build the Kingdom, we hold in our breasts the weapon of the Word of God !

Nehemiah 4 v 17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.

There is so much more I should like to say on this subject, but I sincerely hope that we could discuss this topic with Godly wisdom, honesty and sober thought, as before a Holy God Almighty. 

Your sister in Christ
Alexandra  :)

PS;  I have no idea who the author is; I have not read any of his other work.





Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Rose

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 11:38:38 AM »
Hi,
  Is this meant to excuse social media men like Harvey Weinstein, and the great number of political men (mainly Republican) who have been revealed of late to have sexually harassed women? Because it seems to me this is meant to excuse them because they are men and wired this way? I hope not!
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

bloodstone

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 12:25:58 PM »
Greetings all,

Modesty is so much more than dressing ... comportment, attitudes, mannerisms ... the overall demeanour and disposition of a Godly woman must surely be the most Beautiful creature to behold, similarly, a Godly man, one who is confident of his Christlike masculinity and asserts himself with gentle kindness towards the weaker than he.

As followers of Christ, we are besieged by every manner of evil, beginning in our very homes through TV ... the insidious attacks of the evil one have sadly become culturally acceptable and we are at all times to be on our guard !!

I asked a similar question about modesty in 2013, Why are Muslim Women so much more Modest than Christian Women

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2940.0

Which to this day has not been effectively answered by any woman here. Perhaps you might be the first to actually answer my query of why? :)

Rich Aikers

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 05:45:48 PM »
I asked a similar question about modesty in 2013, Why are Muslim Women so much more Modest than Christian Women

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2940.0

Which to this day has not been effectively answered by any woman here.

To be fair, that's like asking a Catholic why they worship the Pope, or asking a Baptist why they feel if you don't dunk in baptism then you're not clean, or asking a Dispensationalist why they ignore scripture, and so on. No one wants to condemn themselves, even when they know what you say is true. Why do men not take seriously that you can't look at a woman with lust or it's adultery? I see married Christian men googling immodestly dressed women all the time. Why not point the finger at them also?  It's a two way street.

Puritan Heart

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 06:15:15 AM »
Greetings all,

Modesty is so much more than dressing ... comportment, attitudes, mannerisms ... the overall demeanour and disposition of a Godly woman must surely be the most Beautiful creature to behold, similarly, a Godly man, one who is confident of his Christlike masculinity and asserts himself with gentle kindness towards the weaker than he.

As followers of Christ, we are besieged by every manner of evil, beginning in our very homes through TV ... the insidious attacks of the evil one have sadly become culturally acceptable and we are at all times to be on our guard !!



I asked a similar question about modesty in 2013, Why are Muslim Women so much more Modest than Christian Women

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2940.0

Which to this day has not been effectively answered by any woman here. Perhaps you might be the first to actually answer my query of why? :)

Hi there Bloodstone,

I am not certain that I can satisfactorily answer your question, but I will do my utmost since it is a very serious issue that most certainly must be considered by those of us who sincerely and earnestly wish to follow the basic tenets and principles of the blood bought salvation to which we affirm.

I particularly wished in my initial post to isolate the discussion on *Modesty in Women* ... really wanting to hear from you gentlemen.  This immediately puts me at a disadvantage with those of my fellow sisters in Christ, but I personally, purposely want to hear what Men think ... God fearing, Christ following Men !!

When I do comment, I choose to speak for myself only.  I will do it this way since it is *I* who will stand before a Holy God on that final day, and give answer for my Own life only.

2 Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

I am fully convinced that if we as children of a Holy and Almighty God and Father postively and thoroughly comprehend the meaning of this, the wise would dare to think twice or thrice or as many times as be needed BEFORE making foolish and ill considered comments, and in doing so, there would be absolutely NO blame to anyone else, outside of themselves. 

Paul expressly says;

1 Thessalonians 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 

I therefore look forward to reading more comments to which I will respond.  Please be patient with me  :)

I end by saying this;  Babylonian mentality has insidiously beguiled and ravaged the very heart and soul of female society and in thus doing, has emasculated and impoverished men.  When Godly, Christlike women behave, speak, dress, smell, conform to and brazenly advocate a Babylonian lifestyle, the enemy is satified and God and his Holiness is reviled.

1 Peter 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

The above red highlighted words are a cry from the depths of my own soul ...

I speak with utmost conviction as a Guilty sinner, redeemed only through HIS unmerited Grace and Mercy !!

To GOD BE ALL THE GLORY !!!!

Your sister in Christ
Alexandra
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Puritan Heart

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 06:21:11 AM »
Please excuse all the bold highlighted latter part of my post ... I tried repeatedly to fix it ... it was not intentional  :-\
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Puritan Heart

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 07:05:37 AM »
Hi,
  Is this meant to excuse social media men like Harvey Weinstein, and the great number of political men (mainly Republican) who have been revealed of late to have sexually harassed women? Because it seems to me this is meant to excuse them because they are men and wired this way? I hope not!

Hello Rose,

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

As at the time of my reply this remains a Christian forum with some sincere God fearing believers who share their Biblical views on life and all the issues pertaining to it through the Earnest study of the written Word of God ! 

I fail to share the consternation and feigned horror of the *Me2* brigade.  When men and women recognize themselves as little more than objects of adoration, operating like sexual predators and beasts, building so called careers through exploitation of themselves and others, then whine about it after potloads of money has been gained, my usual gentle heart turns to stone !!

As a believer in Christ, I absolutely fail to understand your comment and how you can even entertain your idea.

Paul urges us to be NOT conformed to this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Romans 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

My very first thought when I briefly read of the alleged furore was Revelations 18; 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen ....

These things are to be expected ... Babylon is imploding ..........

Alexandra

PS.  NO amount of new laws can change the heart of man.

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Puritan Heart

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 08:45:16 AM »
Why do men not take seriously that you can't look at a woman with lust or it's adultery? I see married Christian men googling immodestly dressed women all the time. Why not point the finger at them also?  It's a two way street.

Hello Rich

In reference to your comment about *seeing men googling immodestly dressed women all the time* might I ask, you, being a professing Follower of Christ, what your response to them is ?

Alexandra
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Diane Moody

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 02:28:32 AM »
I asked a similar question about modesty in 2013, Why are Muslim Women so much more Modest than Christian Women

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2940.0

Which to this day has not been effectively answered by any woman here. Perhaps you might be the first to actually answer my query of why? :)

I don't know why no one has answered directly, but let me be the first to give you a straight answer. I don't think the answer is that complicated. Muslem or Muslem women are so much more modest in dress and position than westernized women (and they are) for the most part is because of their environment. They've grown up in that type of environment and the good part is that they've been taught that from birth. It's part of the great universal truth that God has given us in his word.

Proverbs22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

The difference is environment, or in other words, American women aren't trained from childhood the righteousness of dressing modestly as Muslim women are. Our women are trained by Parents who have little modesty themselves considering the dresses I saw in church before I left it. Their teacher is mostly the immodesty of friends, TV and the social media. So they all have a very warped sense of what real modesty is. It wasn't so long ago that (for the most part) women were pretty modest in America, with little temptation, long dresses and little makeup. But we have long ago left that sense of Godly modesty behind with the women's movement and sexual freedoms. As God put the responsibility on Parents to train their children, I see parents as the main cause of this growing lack of modesty, morality and even compassion. They too easily gave in to the fads, degradation and whims of both children and society. If you or I grew up in a muslin country, chances that because of the environment we'd be a lot more modest also. Of course, we'd probably be in another religion too, so would it really be a improvement?



Puritan Heart

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 03:42:16 AM »
Hello Diane,

With all due respect to your reply to Bloodstone, please might I request that it be moved to the appropriate thread, the one in the link he provided.  My thread has nothing to do with how women outside of the Christian faith behave.  I would like to keep it that way.

Thanking you in advance

Alexandra

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Diane Moody

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 04:00:02 AM »
Hello Diane,
 My thread has nothing to do with how women outside of the Christian faith behave.  I would like to keep it that way.

Thanking you in advance

Alexandra

Actually, I am referring to Christian women. Just got a little sidetracked. For the most part, Christian women are not modest in any way. Not in dress, not in relationship to their position to men, and not in their lofty usurping of authority. I am convinced that it stems from lax in Parenting and their refusal to teach young Christian girls the glory of their God given place in the world. I believe that it's an environmental issue any way you look at it.



Della

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 02:12:03 PM »
I agree, we learn modesty. It's not something that we are instilled with from birth. If the parents go around with low cut blouses and tight pants, the children will go further. Modesty is taught by church and parents, and if that fails there is no modesty. They both have failed. Ministers and parents both need to get back to teaching girls to be godly, chaste and modest in all they do.

Dwight

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 08:22:22 PM »
Men tend to be goal-oriented; women tend to be process-oriented.
Men gain satisfaction from achievements; women gain satisfaction from relationships.
When a man talks with a friend about a problem, he's looking for a solution. When a woman talks with a friend about a problem, she's looking for empathy and reassurance.
Each part of a man's life is a separate issue; a problem in one area doesn't have much affect on other areas. For a woman, everything is connected, and a problem in one area affects everything else.

I don't think these points are necessarily true. There is a bit of generalization going on here without evidence. The article made some good points and then ruined it with these generalizations. The women I know gain satisfaction from achievements as much as men, and men gain satisfaction from relationships as much as women. This article starts out with a very good premise, but then it all goes south when it adds things that don't need adding and that honest people know aren't necessarily true. Women are different from men, but not in this way.

Tim Norton

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 02:44:13 AM »
The women I know gain satisfaction from achievements as much as men, and men gain satisfaction from relationships as much as women. This article starts out with a very good premise, but then it all goes south when it adds things that don't need adding and that honest people know aren't necessarily true. Women are different from men, but not in this way.

Dwight,  :iagree:

 God made differences, rather than the ones they list that seem more speculation than actual differences. Just as immodesty is pride, modesty in women to me is mostly to be humble. Immodesty is mostly showing off, be it skin,  jewelry, education, clothing, wealth or lifestyle.

James 4:5-6
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Why won't Christian women who dress immodestly read their bibles and turn from it? Because they are prideful. They want the attention that immodest dress brings. Agree?

Joanne

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Re: On modesty an open letter to the ladies by Michael Fischer
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2017, 07:10:59 PM »
Question: I'm sure you ladies have all been taught on the subject of modesty and the need to cover yourselves, but how many of you can name a good, solid reason why this is so?

I would think it obvious, it is not to entice men. Unfortuinately, in our time such rationale is called women shaming.


Quote
Modesty is a word and a concept that men almost never deal with. Modesty in women's dress and appearance has always been a "women's issue," which makes sense, given the sensitive nature of some aspects of it. The idea, apparently, is that mothers will teach modesty to their own daughters, and newly saved women will be taught by the older women of the church, in accordance with Titus 2:3-5

That ship has sailed long ago. Modesty isn't taught anymore, it is remembered nostalgically by Grandma. Modesty today is a skirt to the knees rather than below it. Modesty is a whole different word than it was years ago. If we got back to the bible, we would see what real modesty is. I agree Tim, immodesty is in the area of pridefulness. But it is also in parents not wanting their children to appear different and be teased. Neglecting that Christians are supposed to be different. I also agree with Dwight that some points in the article are not true. Women are physically and emotionally different from men, but they also gain satisfaction from achievements as much as men do. And many women today don't even want relationships, the men do and they are frustrated by this new trend.



 


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