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Author Topic: What Is Love?  (Read 1955 times)

Joe Johnson

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2019, 01:40:03 PM »
 )Goodpoint(  Let's see who answers  )-Oh-tHe-DrAma-(

David Knoles

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2019, 07:54:00 PM »

Love is teaching Dispensationalism and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2019, 09:52:26 AM »
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Are you guys saying that if we don't have love, are we not true Christians?
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1st John 4:7-8
  • "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
  • He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

I'm not saying that, God is saying that. For No True Christian is without love (Matthew 18:32-35), or else he's not a true Christian. We're not talking about love as the world defines it, but as God does. When we are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born in His love where we have a new nature and are a new creation (2nd Peter 1:4; 2nd Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) that is benevolent and earnestly desires to do the will of God.

1st John 2:4
  • "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

So, where is the love of God in those who God do not "keep" His commandments? There is none because it's all lip service wherein is no true knowledge of God. All true Christians earnestly desire to keep God's commandments because they love as they are loved. But his desire is not of themselves, the love the true Christian has received this as a free gift from God. It is not a mere feeling, emotion or infatuation such as the world defines love. We only have love in the first instance because God loved us and gave it to us in faith. If we have the faith "of" Christ, we have the love. Consequently, where there is no love, there is no real faith of Christ.

1st John 4:19-21
  • "We love him, because he first loved us.
  • If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
  • And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."

Sure, we can all sit around and play psychological chess if we like, but the bottom line is this, he who has no love or compassion for his fellow man, has no love of God. ...or to put it more sucinctly, he is not a Christian. True Christians "desire" to keep the word of God, they don't seek paths around it.

1st John 5:3-4
  • "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
  • For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

What is the love of God? It is that we keep His commandments. So again, I'm not saying it, God has said it again and again and again. Sadly many Christians have no fear of God and so are not listening to Him. They are pretending that these are things man says rather than God. They have forborne to keep God's commandments.

2nd John 6
  • "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."


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Because honestly, I do struggle with bad feelings and animosity against particular people. Especially hypocritical TV evangelists, false witnesses, dispensationalists, liars and anti-Christian folk that I must deal with on a regular basis ion my job.
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Everybody sins because no one is perfect. To keep God's commandments doesn't mean that you will never commit a sin by breaking any of God's laws, rather it means that you have a new nature that loathes sin. You have the Spirit of God to "hold fast" the words of Scripture while all around you professing Christians are twisting, denying, and trampling God's word underfoot.

As for only loving our friends but not our enemies, God warns about that also. In reality, most every unsaved person does that routinely. With God's Spirit guiding us, are we not to be more conscientious than unsaved people?

Matthew 5:46-48
  • "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
  • And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
  • Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The deeper spiritual lesson here is that in our loving only those who love us, then where is the evidence that we are of a new nature and superior character with holy principles in Christ Jesus? Even the worst of men will do this in loving their mother or families and friends. As those called unto service of Christ we are not to be just like the world, but set apart as Spiritually better than the world in character and in love. Of course it's not easy, but no one ever said it would be.


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Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that you are saying I should love them anyway and just tell them the truth of and that they keep God's commandments and let them carry on in their wrong doing?
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Am I saying you should love your enemies? Absolutely, which is nothing more than what Christ said. As for your comment, no you cannot prevent anyone from carrying on in their wrong doing, you can merely be a witness to the truth. A messenger of God by whom they will either be led by His word to truth or carry on in their unrighteousness. None of that changes the fact that "Yes, you should" love them anyway and testify of the truth that they might keep God's commandments. That is an evidence of true agape love or charity among mankind. We should never forget or neglect that God sent his Son to die for those of us that were hypocrites, that were thieves, that were prostitutes, drunkards, cheating husbands and wives. God didnt wait for sinners like me and you to get holy before He loved us. Love is agape or benevolent charity and compassion, which love God indeed had for us. Can we seek anything less?

Lue 6:27-33
  • "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
  • Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
  • And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
  • Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
  • And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
  • For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
  • And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same."

What thank have ye indeed. Since you are doing no more than your unsaved brethren does, are you not yet as carnal as they are? We certainly cannot say we're different if we act just as the world does and love just as the world loves. Where is the good Samaritan, the charity, the evangelism, the compassion for your fellow man who has not been blessed as you have? Where is the good Samaritans of our day? Is that good now unreceptive and deemed unchristian, evil or even careless?

1st John 3:17-24
  • "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
  • My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
  • And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
  • For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
  • Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
  • And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
  • And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
  • And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

Blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. The Bible also declares in Galatians 5:14 and Romans 13:8 that "the whole law is fulfilled in one word:" That word is love. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."  Those who ask how is love fulfilled in the law should study these type chapters and realize that without love, Christ couldn't have fulfilled the law for us. It is from His love that we are no longer under law.


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All of you have your own definition of love. I'm trying to understand just what love really means to the average joe.
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Actually all of us shouldn't have our own personal/private definition of love. As Christians or followers of Christ, we all should hold to Christ's definition of love. And that definition is found in His Holy word. If you are really trying to understand what love really means to the average joe, you should ask the average Joe. But if you want to know what God's definition of love is, you should ask God. And He speaks authoritatively through His Holy word, which clearly defines genuine Christian love as the benevolent compassion and concern for the spiritual well being of others. The source of that type of love is God, which in contrast to the worlds idea of love, is to have no ill will towards others. Indeed knowing their spiritual condition we can't help but grieve and mourn for them, as opposed to hating or having ill will towards them because of their ignorance.

Romans 13:10
  • "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
1t John 4:6-8
  • "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
  • Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
  • He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

The authoritative word declares that love fulfills the law. But what does that mean? The Bible concretely defines love precisely in terms of the keeping of God's commandments. If everyone loved, then they would be keeping God's commandments. For example, if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are perfectly fulfilling the command to love by keeping the second commandment of the law, which can only be done in Christ. These Scriptures are not declaring that the Christians will keep this standard perfectly in his life, rather it is illustrating that perfect obedience to the law is the standard to which Christians will aspire because they have Christ's Spirit moving them towards the will of God.  Sure, any professing Christian can form a private interpretation of what love is, but true Christianity defines Christ's love by God's word. It's immaterial to me how the average joe defines love--the relevant question is how God wants His people to view love. Is it that important? Well, faith, hope, and love abide, but the greatest of these is love (1st Corinthians 13:13). That's how important it is.


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Yes the Bible says love is defined as "to keep the commandments of God." You agree. The problem is that this is impossible.  I don't know what the Reformed define as breaking God's commands, but I know that I sin and I know that no one is perfect. So try as we may, we can't keep all the commandments. We would like to, but we just can't seem to do it. Love can't be defined as keeping God's commandments.
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Why not? Is that what you get from reading the Scriptures or is that just what you personally understand of "keeping God's commandments?" I believe love involves self-denial and sacrifice. Most people don't love because they don't want to make that sacrifice. i.e., doing the right thing is hard, it's a sacrifice, it's often painful self-denial for the sake of others. Agape benevolence is the growth of love in us. One of the best examples of Love was left us by our Saviour.
...that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (Joh 3:16).

That's sacrifice and that is love. The fact that he was obedient unto death is something the church seems to have long forgotten. Following is an excerpt from a post of a previous conversation with someone in 2002 with very similar concerns and questions as you, as I think it applies perfectly to your questions as well:

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I think that there is a misunderstanding that keeping God's commandments means that Christians won't sin (transgress God's Commandments). The only way to keep God's commandments unto life is perfectly in Christ. Rather keeping God's commandments illustrates that they will not depart from God's commandments in the sense of abandonment. "Keep" meaning that they will guard it against loss. To keep in this way means to hold-fast or guard from loss. In other words, that they will remain faithful in that they won't forsake or fall away from the faith once delivered to the saints. They will not depart from it, not desert it, cast it aside or repudiate what the word of God says. Look at a true Christian and a false Christian and tell me what is the difference. 

... besides one having the Holy Spirit and a new nature.

The difference is that one keeps God's word and the other denies it, finds ways around it, forsakes it or twists it. That they will not and cannot "keep" God's commandments or laws is evidence of their lack of love of God. They are offended by God's commandments and so have no interest in obeying them.

The word translated keep is the Greek [tereo] meaning to guard or watch, and by extension to guard against loss. In this context of commandments, it means to guard against degradation or the departing from these laws.

1st Timothy 4:1
  • "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

This departing from the laws of God is what is meant by not "keeping" God's commandments. The church in not guarding against the loss of the laws of God by continuing to walk as Christ walked. Instead, they are walking according to the carnal desires of the flesh. You see it's one thing to sin, to then recognize your sin, confess it, and turn away from it, and it's quite another to rationalize away sin claiming that it is not a sin in the first place. One is "keeping" God's laws and in the other the church is departed from the laws of God. i.e., they have not held fast or kept the commandments of God. e.g.:

Psalms 32:5
  • ""I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah."

One acknowledges God's laws by acknowledging sin, and this because of the love of God manifested in an earnest desire to keep the commandments of God. By contrast,  the other denies their sin is actually sin and hey seek ways around the commandments or to justify their actions. Because they have no love of God, no fear of God and no earnest desire to actually receive or be obedient to God's laws.

For example, if God's word makes no provision for remarriage of the divorced and declares that He that marries a divorced person commits adultery (Luke 16:18), and I testify to that God authored truth, I am keeping or guarding against the loss of that precept or commandment. However, if I turn around and reject that precept and claim that He that marries a divorced person is not committing adultery, then I am not "Keeping" God's commandments because I am justifying disobedience to it.  Thus by "THIS EVIDENCE" they are showing forth the spirit of disobedience to His commandments. There is no real "Love" of God here. So I repeat:

1st John 2:3-5
  • "And HEREBY we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
  • He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a Liar, and the truth is not in him.
  • But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: HEREBY know we that we are in him."

This doesn't mean that unless we don't ever commit sin or break His commandments, then we don't know Christ. It means that the evidence that we do know Christ is that we keep (Guard from loss) or remain faithful to His commandments. We have that fear of God and the Spirit of truth within us whereby whenever we break God's commandments, we are vexed and mourn for it. We do not stand up and DENY that God's word actually said it (as so many of our day do). We don't rationalize it away in order to remain carnal or to continue to do things we "want" to do anyway. True love is that we keep the doctrines we have learned because our desire is to please God and for our neighbor o have the same gift as we have received. 1st Timothy chapter 4, which spoke of the departing from doctrines of faith, speaks also of our continuing in (keeping) doctrine, its purpose and outcome.

1st Timothy 4:16
  • "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

In departing from God's commandments, we are departing from the paths of salvation. Correct doctrine and salvation are intimately related (despite the protests of those who claim that would be a works gospel). The Bible says that He that saith he abideth in Christ ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked. That's confessing God's word rather than as some going to great lengths to deny that it actually means what it says. Of course, we all struggle with sin and bad thoughts about others, but that's not necessarily an absence of love. If you don't fear God and you don't really care about others, THAT is a lack of God authored agape love vs. worldly love.

Every religion in the world has people in it who dearly love their family members, their neighbors, and their countrymen. But that's not the love of God in salvation, it is friendship, emotional or experiential love. True love (as defined by God) is that we desire to spiritually heal others. We desire for our enemy the same love, the very same salvation that we ourselves have received (Matthew 10:8 ). It means we desire they would "KEEP" the commandments of God, or be true Christians faithful to God's word and not to the flesh that constantly wars against it. Because we know that in their keeping God's commandments, thereby is the love Of God Perfected.

As I say, most struggle with my bad feelings for another person at sometime or another, but that is what God's Grace is all about. He is faithful to forgive us our sins. Not one of us is perfect, as we ALL have feet of clay. We recognize our sin, repent of it, pray for our enemies confessing our sin against them to God and asking for strength to overcome, and He is faithful to forgive us and to sustain us in time of 'trial.'

One Christian man told me he was upset because his wife demanded that he love her unconditionally and always be nice to her. My reply was that this is nothing more than (as a Christian) you should demand of yourself. Which doesn't mean that he should let her walk all over him, but that he make sure that in all he does, it is not for her hurt, but her good. Of course in the end no one can force him to be nice to her, nor her to him, but we all should be in the 'frame of mind' that we desire all the best for people. Never allow bad feelings to eat away at you because it does harm to yourself, and to whom you hate. If we don't want to see anyone under God's wrath, we pray for them and ask God's forgiveness for them. Lay all our burdens down at the feet of the cross ..and leave them there.
Make sure we understand that it's not all about us. If we take our eyes off ourselves and place them on the Lord, we can't be looking and thinking about ourselves, thus show love for others. That agape charity and desire of no ill will towards them.

I caution that first and foremost we have to get it straight in our 'own minds' how we are to feel about those who are enemies. TRUE Love is not conditional, and so it doesn't depend upon if this person treats us well or not. To love is a command of God, not a suggestion. Thus we should keep that command, guard it against loss, make sure that it's the starting point. We are already in this situation of animosity so fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life, whereunto we are also called. Again, love is to desire for this person the same things as you desire for yourself. Simply put, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Many critics don't understand how Christ's words apply to real life situations. Being unloving would only apply if we were taking scripture and claiming that it doesn't apply, or that it is irrelevant today, or that it didn't mean what it said. There are different kinds of love. Like [phileo] love which is more of a friendship, and [agape] Love which is more of the gift-like charitable, benevolent love where we expect nothing in return. So our enemies hate us. We hated Christ also, and yet while we were dead in trespass and sin, He loved, called and gave repentance to us. Can we do less? So yes, as friends show phileo love or friendship, but also show the greatest love which is agape, and share the gospel, Go forth with an earnest desire that our foes might find peace, and do so in all that you have as a faithful Christian. True love is experienced through self-denial or sacrifice. It is the kind of love that in our day has largely grown cold.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2019, 09:54:29 AM »
>>>
 )Goodpoint(  Let's see who answers  )-Oh-tHe-DrAma-(
<<<

The only thing that we can be pretty much sure of, is that it won't be you.  :-\

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Tony Warren

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2019, 10:50:04 AM »
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Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
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Love is illustrated in teaching the unadulterated gospel message of the Kingdom, which I might add is antithetical to the doctrines and teachings of Dispensationalism. Here is the faith and patience of the saints--that they "keep" the laws of God. That they guard it from loss through discrediting, neglect (2nd Kings 22:11-13), and wresting/twisting. Keeping God's laws in love means to both receive them freely and preserve them conscientiously. Man need not overly speak against Dispensationalism, God speaks against it in the testimony of His word, and does so conclusively. ...as Christ says, if we will receive it.

Ephesians 2:11
  • "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
  • That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
  • But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel, and which you have cast aside as meaningless with regard to His one people Israel being both Jews and Gentiles. When God says love is demonstrated by "keeping" His commandments, this is part of that. Love is not Dispensationalism, love is keeping or holding fast to whatever God says. Why? Because Love gendereth to obedience. And blessed are those who are not offended by God's love for all His children regardless of race, creed or tribe.

Galatians 3:28
  • "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

As it is written, "Believeth thou This!"  Do we receive and keep this, or reject that it really says what it says and cast this away as being ungodly?


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...and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.
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Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

Romans 9:6-8
  • "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
  • Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
  • That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

The Covenant with Israel is represented by the Olive tree, with Gentiles grafted in. The children of God are not "just" jews, they are made up of all nationalities. And THIS is what is meant by Keeping the commandments of God. Do we guard them from loss, or cast them underfoot as meaningless with regard to Israel, the Jews and the Promise. "Love" is deciding that it is God rather than Dispensationalist teachers that knows what He is talking about. ...that it is His word/law/commandments that are faithful, authoritative and true. That the kingdom representation has been taken from "national" Israel and given to another because they are rejecting Christ their savior. So then, shall we "keep" that word, or cast it under foot? One is true love and the other a demonstration of no love.

As for the forces of evil that come against Israel with fiery darts? God is her protector, and we are His witnesses that He needs no assistance from the forces of the world. Israel is able to stand in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation among whom she shines as the light of the world. So I'll grab my sword, helmet and breastplate and you grab yours and in the end the Israel of God is the 0only one that will prevail.

Ephesians 6:11-18
  • "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
  • For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
  • Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
  • And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
  • Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
  • And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
  • Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"

The faithful Christian's wrestling or fighting, is not with those wicked opposed to a political nation called Israel located in the middle east, it is against spiritual wicked people opposed to Spiritual Israel, and our weapons are not carnal, they are spiritual, and the defense of this Israel is not with missiles, planes, tanks and guns, it is with the sword of the Spirit and the breastplate of faith and the helmet of salvation. You want truth, look deeper into the ethos that is the Israel of God, not a rebellious people in the middle east. The wicked are rulers of the darkness of this world commanded by the great deceiver Satan. Those who want to come into high or heavenly places to usurp God's place on the throne. If we really want to find the boogie man, we need look no further than our own house. Nevertheless, Israel and it true believers have nothing to fear from any gun, any man or any nation. They are sealed/secured of the Holy Spirit and sanctified with all spiritual blessings in the Kingdom.
 
"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Nikki

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2019, 01:24:59 PM »
 )Bible-Red(  )amen(  )GoodPopst(

David Knoles

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2019, 08:33:44 PM »
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Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
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Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel


So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel. OK, I get it.  Most of you just continue to ignore scripture don't you?

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3


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...and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.
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Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

That's not Israel, that's the church. You are confused as all Reformed theologians are.

"1 Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

That's the church, not Israel because she is separate.

aquatic

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2019, 12:56:21 AM »
>>>
Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
<<<
Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel


So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel. OK, I get it.  Most of you just continue to ignore scripture don't you?

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3

That is speaking of Christ. Its reiterated at the end of Acts Chapter 3.


Philly Dawg

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2019, 04:29:42 PM »
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Genesis 12:3
 
And I will bless them that bless thee,… Not the priests only that should bless his children, the children of Israel, as the Targum of Jonathan, but all men of all nations, and of every age, that speak well of him, commend him for his faith and holiness, and tread in his steps, these are blessed with faithful Abraham, Ga 3:7.

And curse him that curseth thee; here is a change of numbers, before the plural, here the singular, denoting, it may be, that many would bless him, and but few curse him, and that every individual person that did curse him should be cursed himself: the Targum of Jonathan wrongly restrains this to Balaam's cursing Abraham's children, and was cursed by God; Maimonides1 thinks, there is no doubt to be made of it, that the Zabaeans, the idolatrous people Abram was brought up with, when he contradicted them, loaded him with curses and reproaches; and, because he bore them all patiently for the glory of God, as became him, therefore these words are said; but they, without question, respect future as well as present times, and regard all such, in every age and of every nation, that disapproves of, or rejects and reproaches Abram's God, his faith, his religion, and his people.

And in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed of all nations, are blessed in him; and that whoever of them are blessed, they are blessed and only blessed in him, and that they are blessed for his sake with all spiritual blessings; see Eph 1:3 such as redemption, justification, remission of sins, sanctification, adoption, and eternal life.
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Tim Norton

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2019, 08:30:59 PM »
Is there an online book where you get these commentaries Philly?

Tony Warren

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2019, 08:08:20 AM »
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So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel.
<<<

If God says we are Jews are not defined by Him as those who are outwardly Jewish (in the flesh), but those who are Jews at heart and in the Spirit, then God's word is good enough for me.  Indeed it should be good enough for any conscientious Christian. I don't need man to corroborate that. His word is authoritative, trustworthy and incapable of being wrong.

Romans 2:28-29
  • "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
  • But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Why would I need additional validation of God's word from man? Something many have not yet learned is that though man may look on the outward show or appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart (1st Samuel 16:7). We aren't impersonators as you charge, nor do we seek the praise of men, we only desire to do the will of God. We make no pretense of an earthly Israel being Holy, but of the Spiritual Jews being in Christ, the ultimate Israel of God.


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I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3
<<<

This Covenant or Promise was not declaring that only he and his physical children shall be blessed, nor that all that bless him or them would be blessed, but that all people of all races, tribes and nations in every age should be blessed through this Covenant through the power of his Seed, Christ. To suppose that anyone who blessed physical Israel would also be blessed is a covenant of works, and contradicts God's own words that He is not a respecter of persons. Not to mention that He's already said multiple times that Gentiles come into Israel and are hears of the exact same promises. NOT that Gentiles would move to the physical nation of Israel, but that they would come into this spiritual Covenant with Israel. As indeed is "vividly" illustrated by Israel being the Olive Tree and Gentiles branches being grafted "into" it. ...not having a separate tree as you suppose, but grafted into this exact same Covenant with Israel. This promise was made to Abraham and his Seed, which speaks of Christ. You've got your eyes on a law of works and vain physical genealogy for the blessings of Israel, instead of the man Christ.

Titus 3:9
  • "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

The only genealogy that is important today is that we are family/children/generation of God, not the pureness of our bloodline, origin or race. The genealogy to whom all the birthrights, adoptions, and families pertain, and that the sacrifices, ceremonies, ablutions and promises pointed, is the seed born of God. Being a Jew, Roman or Greek is immaterial to the Covenant with Israel, who is Christ Jesus. All peoples of the earth are not blessed through the man Abraham, but through the man Christ.

Galatians 3:14-16
  • "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
  • Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
  • Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

The apostles were the children of the covenant with Israel, and here it is made clear the Gentiles join with them in that blessing, as indeed is also illustrated so vividly in Romans 11 and the Olive tree. This is all fulfilling of the New Covenant with Israel wherein through Christ, all are heirs of the promises. The point is, in his Seed, which is Christ is how we are all hears of the Promises to Israel.

Acts 3:25-26
  • "Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
  • Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."

That's the church. All peoples on earth are blessed through His Seed Christ, not the nation of Israel.


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Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

That's not Israel, that's the church. You are confused as all Reformed theologians are.
<<<

Israel is in the first instance Christ (Numbers 24:5-8), and in the second those who represent Christ through His covenant with them (both old and new covenants). Study to show thyself approved of God a workman, needing not to be ashamed. Here's some good places to start.

Exodus 4:22
  • "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:"
Isaiah 49:2-3
  • "And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
  • And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified."
Hosea 11:1
  • "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."
Matthew 2:14-15
  • "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
  • And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son."

Christ is the Son, the Servant Israel, in whom the Lord God would be glorified.  Selah.


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"1 Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
<<<

What then? Are there two different and separate houses of God? One for Jews and one for Gentiles? Where do you read such untenable ideas, because it is certainly not from the pages of the Holy Bible. Is the house of God divided or separated by means of a carnal recognition of diverse flesh? The unpalatable truth is that Arabs are the physical seed of Abraham just as the Jews are. If you are attempting to use that passage of Genesis as a proof text for the physical seeds of Abraham, then the logical conclusion of your argument makes such divisions of blessedness based upon physical distinctions, untenable? But we already know the seed refers not to his Jewish descendants, but to Christ.

Galatians 3:16
  • "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

Any verse you can bring up ultimately points us back to Christ, the only Israel of God wherein all the peoples of the earth will be blessed.


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That's the church, not Israel because she is separate.
<<<

The church is the she, is the woman, is the body, is the house of God, is the Holy Temple, is the congregation, is the chosen, is the Israel, tc., etc.

Ephesians 2:13-19
  • "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
  • For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
  • Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
  • And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
  • And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
  • For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
  • Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"

Why would you think that the Lord has separated His people? For what purpose and for what distinction? The Lord only has "ONE" Congregation, one "body" of believers, one Covenanted people, one household, and one assembly of the firstborn, and that is New Covenant Israel or as is also called in modern times, the New Testament church. What was once "primarily" Jews, is now Jews and Gentiles together in one body, through the promise made to Abraham.

Romans 11:17
  • "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;"

In "among" them, not off in a separate body of people somewhere. He who loves God, keeps God's word because by that love they know that "it" is authoritative. There is a vivid portrait of the Covenant of God with Israel. This Israel is the Olive Tree from whom some Jewish people were illustrated as branches and broken off because of their blindness and hardness of heart. And the Gentiles are typed as branches of a wild Olvine tree that have been taken and grafted into the covenant with Israel among the Jews that were there, and this is One Tree, the Israel of God. So you can pretend that these two are separate, but God's word is the final authority, not Dispensational traditions.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Philly Dawg

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2019, 12:23:33 PM »
Is there an online book where you get these commentaries Philly?

All the commentaries come with the Swordsearcher Bible study Program. I just cut and pasted it.
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George

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Re: What Is Love?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2019, 04:15:05 AM »
Philly, do you get a cut of the pie for advertising them?

 


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