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Author Topic: The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten  (Read 897 times)

Puritan Heart

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Greetings all,

Again, a lesson well deserving of our adherence ....

My own personal journey began after reading the book *Holiness* by J C Ryle and shortly thereafter I discovered the MR Site.  For those who might be interested, herewith a PDF version if you cannot find the book.

http://www.apuritansmind.com/wp-content/uploads/FREEEBOOKS/Holiness-J.C.Ryle.pdf

I remain convinced that the above book should be required reading and then, re reading for every individual who considers themselves a Follower of Christ.  It is a book of Holy instruction that leads to the most intense, personal self examination.

In Christ

Alexandra

The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten!

(J.C. Ryle, 1884)

"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?" 1 Corinthians 14:8

We need a more certain sound about personal holiness. I fear that the standard of holy living is lower just now than it has been for many years. Professing Christians seem unable to realize that there is anything inconsistent in ball-going, theater-going, gambling, card-playing, excessive dressing, novel-reading, and an incessant round of gaiety and amusements!

The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten!

A crucified life of self-denial and close walking with God, a life of real devotedness and zeal for holy living--is hardly ever to be seen!

Yet surely our Lord meant something when He spoke of "taking up the cross!"

Surely Paul meant something when he said,
  "Come out from among them and be separate!"
  "Be not conformed to this world!"
  "Without holiness no man shall see the Lord!"

If Christ returns the second time in this generation, we shall find His words about the days of Noah and Lot fully verified. Those days are upon us!

"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all!"
"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all!" Luke 17:26-29

"Ask for the old paths, where the good way is--and walk in it. Then you will find rest for your souls." Jeremiah 6:16


KJV Jeremiah 6 v 16; Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
   ~  ~  ~  ~
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

George

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Alexandra

The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten!

(J.C. Ryle, 1884)


Come on, Tony Warren has been saying this same thing for years, and it isn't anymore true now as it was then. They're both wrong. You people should stop looking for problems in the church and start looking in the world which is the true antichrist. Because the church is not forgotten, and never will be. It seems you've forgotten that.

Read the Bible literally, God said he will never leave or forsake the church.


"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?" 1 Corinthians 14:8

Puritan Heart

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Alexandra

The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten!

(J.C. Ryle, 1884)
Quote


Come on, Tony Warren has been saying this same thing for years, and it isn't anymore true now as it was then. They're both wrong. You people should stop looking for problems in the church and start looking in the world which is the true antichrist. Because the church is not forgotten, and never will be. It seems you've forgotten that.

Read the Bible literally, God said he will never leave or forsake the church.

"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?" 1 Corinthians 14:8

Again I must ask you George, to please endorse that which you believe to be true with scripture.  Once you offer your interpretation with hopefully, more than one scripture, we might have more to discuss... no ..??

Thanking you in advance.

Alexandra

PS; please do bear in mind the context of the scripture you quote.
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Lieberman

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Alexandra

The line between the Church and the world seems completely effaced and forgotten!

(J.C. Ryle, 1884)


Come on, Tony Warren has been saying this same thing for years, and it isn't anymore true now as it was then.


George,
   It was true then and it's 4 times as true now. I'd hate to think what J.C. Ryle would say about today's church which is nothing but a entertainment venue, a hack for a political party, a social club, a place to show off your new clothing, or a support group for the nation of Israel. If the line between the church and the world seemed completely effaced and forgotten then, there is no line at all now and the world and the church are the same. They are worried about the same things, they are raising their children the same way, they are divorcing and remarrying the same, having the same immorality, watching the same garbage, wearing the same dress, practicing the same bigotry, bowing down to the same idolatry and indulging in the same hypocrisy


Quote
You people should stop looking for problems in the church and start looking in the world which is the true antichrist.

Matt. 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Christ wants us to be aware of those in the church, people coming and looking like Christians, but hidden behind their professions and their confessions is worldliness. You say we people should stop looking for problems in the church, and Christ tells the church to beware of those professing Christians who aren't Christians at all. We will listen to God rather than man. It has always been worldly people in the church who bring it down.


Quote
Because the church is not forgotten, and never will be. It seems you've forgotten that.

Read the Bible literally, God said he will never leave or forsake the church.

I think that you should read the Bible literally, because that's not what God said. Here's the actual passage.

Heb. 13:5
"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Are you (and the far right or far left) Christians content with what you have? God talks to redeemed individuals "within the church," he has never said everyone in the church was elect. He said just the opposite. That he will remove their church out of its place if they didn't repent. Literally!


Quote
"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?" 1 Corinthians 14:8

That's the verse I should give, not you. The uncertain sound is a sound of the church being worried about the same things that the world is careful about.  God told us to be careful for nothing, and to be content with what we have. But you guys don't care what God says. You are all worried about taxes, wicked politicians. The church is just like the world. They are raising their children the same way as the world, they are divorcing and remarrying the same as the world, they wear the same immoral low cut dresses, they have the same tight clothing, the same tattoos, and they use the same language and excuse the same wickedness of the world. They harbor the same bigotry, they bow down to the same idolatry and like the Scribes and Pharisees, they are deceitful, self righteous and full of the same dishonesty of allowing for one while disallowing for another.  The same hypocrisy. This is the verse I should be quoting, not those actually making that uncertain sound.

"For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?" 1 Corinthians 14:8

No one will, and nearly no one does. No one is preparing because they're too busy bellyaching about the years of Obama and Clinton, too busy crying about the Mexicans taking over, too busy griping  about the fake news, or grumbling about how Israel is being attacked, or complaining about the evil liberals and how their moral leader n the white house is being portrayed. There's no time for Christ in this false religion, it's all about the fate of the world.

Well we know the fate of the world, and we know it's all about Christ and his message, not fixing the world. We're just so sick of the the trumpeter making that uncertain sound so that no one prepares themselves for the "real" battle at hand in their own house.

You can keep saying the church is fine, America will be great again, spiritualizing is wicked and Israel is God's people, and I'll keep saying beware of false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing that are pushing political agenda's that are out of touch with Christianity and the commissioned work of Christians.


Chloe

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George,
   It was true then and it's 4 times as true now. I'd hate to think what J.C. Ryle would say about today's church which is nothing but a entertainment venue, a hack for a political party, a social club, a place to show off your new clothing, or a support group for the nation of Israel. If the line between the church and the world seemed completely effaced and forgotten then, there is no line at all now and the world and the church are the same. They are worried about the same things, they are raising their children the same way, they are divorcing and remarrying the same, having the same immorality, watching the same garbage, wearing the same dress, practicing the same bigotry, bowing down to the same idolatry and indulging in the same hypocrisy

I couldn't agree more. It's all about fixing the nations and nothing about fixing the church. Where are our priorities? I remember Reformer saying it's almost as if Christ is just an afterthought, not the primary purpose and reason we are called Christians. That's why I can't find a faithful church within a hundred miles to worship in and have to worship at home, because no one took care of the most important things in life, but were so worried about superficial things. Doctrine took a back seat to crusade and ecumenism where we are looking to develop closer relationships with other doctrines and better understandings of other teachings rather than remaining separate from false doctrines. I left my church when they merged with a Dispensationalist church and that's when I found out just how barren a wasteland for real churches the U.S. had become. There just aren't any where I live. J.C. Ryle couldn't have imagined just how bad it would become. I look back on his day as the days of faithfulness compared to today. That's how bad it has gotten.

George

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Again I must ask you George, to please endorse that which you believe to be true with scripture.  Once you offer your interpretation with hopefully, more than one scripture, we might have more to discuss... no ..??

Thanking you in advance.

Alexandra

"Who is a liar, but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22.

    "Then shall that 'Wicked' be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the 'Spirit of His Mouth,' and shall destroy with the 'Brightness of His Coming."' 2 Thess. 2:8

By denying the literal, you deny the Father and the son, and that man will come to lead his spiritualizing children.

Studyman

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It seems from my study that the "Church" or those who claim the "God of Abraham" as their God, has been the enemy of true believers since the beginning. It was "fellow believers" that wanted to stone Caleb. It was the only God of Abraham believing people on the planet that persecuted and killed the Prophets. It was the only God of Abraham believing people on the planet that worked for the murder of Jesus and that stoned Stephen. This theme has been shown throughout the Bible all the way back to Abel who was killed by his "Christian" brother.

For me, Jesus put the last nail in this theme when He was asked a question by His disciples in Matt. 24.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

He could have warned about anything here. Islam, Atheist's, Buddha. But He didn't. Instead He warned about a very specific group of people.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

There is only one group of people who come in His name, claiming He is truly the Christ. And that is Christianity.

 Paul goes even further.

2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Even from the very beginning does satan use God's Words to deceive as evidenced by Eve. It seems we all have the same choice as those in Christ's time on earth. We either follow the religion we were born into, or we follow the teachings of God that Jesus preached.

But how do we know if we are on the right tract? Am I so special I can't be deceived? Am I stronger than Peter who walked with Christ on the water? I think not. So given I know it is possible to be deceived, what can I do.

The Bible gives us the perfect test to examine our self and even churches with.

1 John. 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

There it is. How did Jesus walk? What Law's of God did Jesus keep? I think this is why Jesus said: "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness".

Anyway, first time on this forum. Thought I would throw some food for thought.



Chloe

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 :welcome:

Hammerle Labinowic

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It seems from my study that the "Church" or those who claim the "God of Abraham" as their God, has been the enemy of true believers since the beginning.

The Devil always provides a counterfeit way that those of the church believe they can be right with God. From false prophets, to works, to false religions to false Christs. And then there's easy-believism where they can live like hell and expect to go to heaven. It's no wonder the church is falling.

Eunice Coughlin

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Just wanted to say thank you for posting this link to the Holiness book by J. C. Ryle. A few weeks ago, Holy Spirit dropped the word "holiness" in to my heart after I prayed for direction in what to study next. After just reading his introduction, I believe this book is an answer to my prayer.

 


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