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Author Topic: Faith Without Works is Dead  (Read 10445 times)

Tony Warren

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Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2018, 04:43:12 AM »
You think that because you've been sucked into Tony Warren's world of the error of Reformed Theology, which is not only erroneous but dangerous.

Biblical doctrines are only dangerous to free will proponents, and that because it is the righteous word of God and at enmity with the humanistic teachings of free will. Biblical doctrine is contrary to ideas that man can by his own free will come to Christ without being dragged kicking and screaming by the Lord Himself. A denial of this is indeed dangerous "because" God says judgment await those who disobey His word and deny its truth.

John 6:44
  • "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

That word translated draw literally is more pronounced and means dragged! So is your response to that,"wrong God I can come to Christ by my own free will?"  You would contradict God if that is your position. Belief of the truth is not by free will, it's by the grace of God, the will of God to open your eyes and to open your ears to truth. What part of that did you have?

John 6:64-65
  • "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
  • And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

You can't come by your own free will "because" God says so. Do not glory in your own free will to come to Christ when those other sinners didn't, instead give all glory to God and understand that it is not by the will of man but the will of God.

This doctrine claims that Christ did not make people redeemable, he actually redeemed a people, and none of them can be lost. That's not a true statement,

Actually it is a true statement, for if Christ "had" in fact only made people redeemable without actually redeeming them, then Christ didn't actually PAY for anyone's sins on the cross, which is a idea that is antithetical and mutually incompatible to what is written. And if He actually did pay for our sins, then we are unblamable, having no sin that incurs blame. Thus we give glory to God that what you say is not true, and that by that effectual payment for all our sins we are sealed (secured) by God and have blessed assurance of Salvation.

Galatians 3:13
  • "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"
Revelation 5:9
  • "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

So, according to God's infallible word, we were not possibly redeemed, we actually were redeemed by the blood of Christ. Redemption by Christ is never in vain. Moreover, as far as none of us being lost, that's the essence of eternal salvation. A Spirit of God that secures or seals us unto the day of redemption can't be a mere possibility. It either did or it didn't. We are either totally secure in Christ, else we are of all men most foolish thinking we are saved by maintaining our own good works. Something which (without Christ's redemption) we could never do.

John 17:12
  • "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

The only one lost was he who was washed in water but never cleansed (John 13:10) from sin, among the 12, but never saved. He never had his sins paid for by Christ's cross, and was never predestinated unto salvation to begin with.

John 1:29
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world".

If he took away the sins of the world, and some of the world can be lost, then the Reformed belief is untrue.

You misunderstand that passage. Christ took away the sins of the world in that all the sins of the world that are taken away are removed by Christ. i.e., there is no other name whereby anyone in the world may have their sins taken away, except Christ. He alone takes away the sins of the world.

Acts 4:12
  • "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Everyone in the world who has their sins taken away, has it taken away by Christ. Moreover, if John 1:29 was to be understood the way you claim it should, then you contradict yourself. Since you've already said He didn't redeem everyone in the world, he only made it possible that everyone could be redeemed. But if He took away the sins of everyone in the world, then NO ONE has any sin, meaning all "had been" redeemed. You can't have it both ways where all sin is forgiven and yet some  are judged because they have sin unforgiven. He either took away all the sins of everyone in the world or He didn't. He is the one who took away all the sins of the world, but not the sins of everyone in the world. Obviously, since many in the world never had their sins taken away.

John 3:17
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved".

The same with this bible verse. It makes all redeemed, instead of making it possible that all could be redeemed.

If it made all redeemed, then who is left unredeemed? Moreover, AGAIN it sounds like you're saying the opposite of what you previously said. Maybe I'm not reading you correctly but "all" are not redeemed because clearly the word of God teaches that many are to remain unsaved, never having been saved or having their sins forgiven. Christ's action on the cross did not make it possible that all could be redeemed, it redeemed all for whom He died. The only question is, all of who? Is it all of God's people in the world throughout time, or is it every single person in the world? If all people in the world then it makes no sense because all in the world were (and are) not redeemed. thus by any normal idiom, the all redeemed are all of "God's people" in the world, and not all people in the world. The world means anyone in the world NOT EVERYONE in the world. i.e., through Christ not only Jews but Greek, Roman, Ethiopian, Russian, anyone in the world can be saved. This is a new dispensation of the New Testament where Salvation has gone to the whole world, not just Jews.

John 17:9
  • "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

Christ didn't pray for the whole world, but ONLY for those of the world who God had chosen and given to Him. The Election, and the rest were blinded. Christ doesn't pray for everyone in the world because He does not pray in vain. He knows the world is not saved, never been redeemed, nor did He make it possible they would be redeemed. He prayed for those He (being all knowing) knows would be redeemed, namely His chosen people.

1 John 2:2
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world".

This doesn't say that Christ did not make all people redeemable as Tony says, it says Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Indeed it does, because if He was the propitiation for the sins of all people in the world, then no one in the world has any sin, meaning they are all saved. That's totally unbiblical. The word propitiation there means "atonement" and it goes without saying (or should) that if Christ had atoned for the sins of all in the world, then none in the world would have sins. The  Apostle is saying not only for our (the Jews) only, but for the whole world. Q.E.D., He was not the propitiation for every single person in the world, but every single person in the world who had their sins atoned for, it was done by Christ. There is none other name whereby it could happen.

Matthew 1:21
  • "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save His people from their sins."

Because He will save all people from their sijns? No, that He would save His people. And His people are those of the whole world, not just Israel.

So he did make all people redeemable.

And how did He make all people redeemable? By paying for their sins? That doesn't make anyone redeemable, that is redemption. Where does the Bible say Christ went to the cross only to make people redeemable? It doesn't say that, man's tradition may say that or imply God said it, but it's not true. This is what the authority of the word actually says Christ did by His cross.

Colossians 2:13-14
  • "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
  • Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

Romans 8:2
  • "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Free from sin, not made it possible you might be, it actually made us who were dead in sin, free from the law of sin. That means now, no condemnation.

The difference on who is redeemed is free will.

There's no chapter and verse for that theory because it's a myth. In truth, the actual difference on who is redeemed is not free will, it is the will of God. It's never by our free will, grace is all about the unmerited favor of God, which is by His will not ours. But don't take my word for it.

John 1:13
  • "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Can't get much clearer than that. Our being born of the spirit (saved) is not by our own free will, but by His will. You'll note God specifically says it is NOT by the will of man, totally contradicting your doctrine that it is. As always, the question boils down to who is our authority on doctrine. Is it the words of men, or the infallible word of God?

"nosce te ipsum"
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Jon Thomas

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Re: Faith Without Works is Dead
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 09:37:54 AM »
You think that because you've been sucked into Tony Warren's world of the error of Reformed Theology, which is not only erroneous but dangerous.

No, I think that because I read it in the Bible. The dangerous doctrines are ones that I don't read in the bible.


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