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Author Topic: What is The Nature of Man?  (Read 3057 times)

Travis

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What is The Nature of Man?
« on: October 18, 2016, 12:59:31 PM »
Briefly, what is the nature of man? Some people say the nature of man is to be good and man is generally influenced in life right or wrong depending upon his upbringing. Others say the nature of man is to do evil, and the only thing that keeps him from doing evil is law and his fear of incarceration. Which is correct?

Maurice

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 01:03:30 AM »
I think that the naturalist belief is the more accurate position. As a product of evolution, what man is depends upon his condition because he is without question the product of his environment.

Roger Dodson

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 02:39:54 AM »
I think that the naturalist belief is the more accurate position. As a product of evolution, what man is depends upon his condition because he is without estion the product of his environment.

Evolution, or what the word is used to describe, is a myth.  The human nature is to sin. That can't be good, it is evil. Therefore, the human nature is evil.

Maurice

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2016, 11:45:02 AM »
I think that the naturalist belief is the more accurate position. As a product of evolution, what man is depends upon his condition because he is without estion the product of his environment.

Evolution, or what the word is used to describe, is a myth.  The human nature is to sin. That can't be good, it is evil. Therefore, the human nature is evil.

Says you. It's a fact that man's environment shapes what a child will grow up to become. The human nature is to seek to be like those around you; to follow tradition and culture.

Apostolic

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 01:57:54 PM »
The nature of man is free will. Man's nature is dependent upon his choices to do good or evil. Some will do evil and some will do good. There is no one nature fits all.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Free will is the nature of man, choice determines his way.

Travis

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2016, 04:59:39 AM »
So you believe the nature of man is inherently good?

Tony Warren

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2016, 08:01:44 AM »
>>>
Briefly, what is the nature of man? Some people say the nature of man is to be good and man is generally influenced in life right or wrong depending upon his upbringing. Others say the nature of man is to do evil, and the only thing that keeps him from doing evil is law and his fear of incarceration. Which is correct?
<<<

If we are going to allow God to be the authority, then the first option is totally incorrect, as God's word says the nature of man is "not" to be good. The second is partially correct. The nature of unsaved man is decidedly evil and is equated to the nature of a beastt. That is to say, the nature of natural man is to lack reason, to be willful, instinctive, impulsive, self-driven and carnal where he is unable to tame the lusts or desires of the flesh. That is the nature of man. Without the Spirit of Christ, man has a beast's heart which is naturally governed and influenced by carnal, fleshly, visceral instincts. His nature then is as a beast to ignorance, living instinctively, ravenously, despising law. In the beginning, with the introduction of original sin, from our birth its stain is congenital upon human beings and makes it impossible for us to be good (as God defines the term).

Psalms 58:3
  • "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Every person that is not saved is wicked. As soon as we come ino this world we "naturally" depart from our father and His righteousness (Genesis 8:21) because we have the stain of Adam's original sin. This causes a bondage of the will where it is in our nature to do evil.

Romans 5:12
  • "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

By Adam's transgression, the stain of sin came upon mankind where it is passed down congenitally to all of mankind where it is our nature to sin. Since the fall, man is by nature not good but sinful. So without man having a "rebirth," wherein he is born again of the spirit of God, all men will by nature be the children of wrath reserved unto the judgment of God. Without Christ, there isn't one of us that has a nature to do good.

Psalms 14:3
  • "They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
Romans 3:10-12
  • "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
  • There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
  • They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

These passages make it clear that when unrestrained by the Spirit of God, mankind in his natural condition is without understanding, cannot do good according to God's definition of it, and is desperately wicked. He has gone astray from God to do his own will and of his own volition "will not" seek God nor attend unto righteousness. From the least to the greatest of us, our nature is not good, but evil.

Jermiah 17:9
  • "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

By the stain of sin the nature of man is polluted so that we are decietful, fraudulent and crooked. There is not one of us who can keep the law of God, which is the only real measure of what is "good" in the world. Male or femnale, rich or poor, Jew or Gentile, finally our nature is to do evil so that we are all fully dependent upon the unmerited and sovereign mercy of God.

However, the "good news" is that in Christ we are provided with a changed nature wherein we are free from the filthiness of sin.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
  • "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
  • A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
  • And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

A New heart and a new Spirit is the only thing that can change the nature of man where he becomes a new creature or creation. Once man is saved, he has a new and divinely inspired nature wherein he is moved of the Spirit unto righteousness to do good works in Christ Jesus.

2nd Peter 1:4
  • "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

The nature to lust as an animal or beast is gone and we are made partakes with the divine nature of God. It is only in His nature do we escape the carnality and corruption of the flesh to be regenerated unto a new creation.

Ephesians 4:22-24
  • "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
  • And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
  • And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

So when the question is asked, what is the nature of man, the only Biblical answer for Christians is that without Christ, the nature of man is desperately wicked and so corrupt that it cannot do good (unto salvation) or obey God. There is none, no not one man that has the nature to be good, according to God. They are all wicked from the womb. He is as a beast, and in fact just a more highly inferential animal. Which is why God sometimes speaks of wicked man as an ignorant beast and uses that symbolism to illustrate his carnality and lack of reasoning (as in the number of the Beast).

Psalms 73:22
  • "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."

Unsaved man is as a beast because he is carnal, foolish and ignorant of the consequences and seriousness of his actions. This is the nature of man. There are only two natures of mankind in this world. The divine nature and the nature that original sin of Adam stained us with. These two natures illustrate that we are either the man of sin or the man of righteousness. One unto life and the other to death.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Colleen

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 01:07:33 PM »
Welcome Back Tony.  )cLaPpInGg(

Apostolic

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 02:49:51 PM »
So you believe the nature of man is inherently good?

No. The nature of man is is neither good nor bad, but neutral. It is dependent upon his choice to do good or evil. Like I said, some will do evil and some will do good because man's nature is neutral. Free will determines his choices and so his nature.

R. Anspach

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 03:02:32 PM »
Thank you Tony, since you seem to be the only one who exegetes scripture anymore.

 :God:Bl-U:
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Galatians 3:11

Melanie

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 04:24:50 PM »
Thank you Tony, since you seem to be the only one who exegetes scripture anymore.

 )God-Bless-You(

 )ditto(  )ditto(  )ditto(

Tony Warren

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2016, 02:17:27 AM »
>>>
No. The nature of man is is neither good nor bad, but neutral.
<<<

Apostolic,
    If the nature of man is neither good nor evil, then why does God insist that there is not one single human being in the entire world that is good? Why is there not one single person that understands? Why is there not one single person that is righteous or that can of his own free choice come to God? Why does God say the wicked go astray from the womb? Is God then incorrect in His assessment of the nature of man?

Psalms 51:5
  • "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Without Christ we are all wicked, and Scripture says the wicked sin from the womb "naturally," or in other words, because that is man's nature. Shall we argue with God insisting we're good if we decide to be? God forbid, yea, let God be true, but every man a liar.


Quote
>>>
It is dependent upon his choice to do good or evil.
<<<

Again, according to God's word, it is not a matter of man's choice to be good, but of his congenital, inherited sin problem. Because of this, it is God's assessment that man goes astray from the womb. If it was truly dependent upon his own choices, it would be impossible for all (as in every single person on earth) by his own choice to be wicked. That makes no sense. If "all" from birth are wicked, then all are in bondage to sin and there is none that has a nature to be good. Not one.

Job 15:14
  • "What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?"

Q.E.D, Job and every other man on earth is an unjust man and a hypocrite. There is no one who does good or that is righteous by his own choice. It wasn't dependent upon man's choice to do good or evil, it is dependent of God's choice. That is what man is--unable to be clean, righteous or good because he is fallen by nature.


Quote
>>>
Like I said, some will do evil and some will do good because man's nature is neutral.
<<<

Romans 3:10-12
  • "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:/i]
  • There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
  • They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Doesthat sound neutral? Here we see God's word that there are "NONE" that does good, contrasted with your theory that we have a nature that is neutral so that we can make a choice and do good, and some "WILL" do good. That's a contradiction to God's word. Again, it boils down to what is our authority. Is it the word of God or is it the imaginations of our own heart.


Quote
>>>
Free will determines his choices and so his nature.
<<<

If man had a free will to do good, there wouldn't be God declaring to us that there is "NONE" that does good, and none that understands, and none that could come to Him. The word "NONE" doesn't give man a choice, it means there aren't any. Man's will is under bondage, the exact opposite of free. Man can't do good unless the Spirit of God moves Him to it. Good is not by the will of man, but by the will of God through His unmerited favor. ..Grace!  e.g.

John 6:44
  • "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

How many can of their own free will come to Christ because they have a good nature? ...None! The very fact that Christ insists that no man can come Him unless the father drags him is infallible confirmation that man has no free will to do such good things. On the contrary, it proves he doesn't have free will to do so, and therefore MUST be drawn (dragged) to Christ by God because He can't of himself come! The myth of man having a free will to do good and evil has been Biblically disproved by God's own words time and again throughout Scripture.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Fred

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 03:25:38 PM »
Apostolic, you make a good point. Tony, If the nature of man is totally wicked why are there people who do good?

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2016, 03:47:23 PM »
Quote
Apostolic, you make a good point.

No, he did not. It just sounds good to you or anyone who did not check with Scripture. Apostolic did not offer any Scripture for his position.  Therefore, his position already has been refuted by Scripture that Tony quoted.

Quote
Tony, If the nature of man is totally wicked why are there people who do good?

Didn't you really read carefully what Tony explained?

Quote
Does that sound neutral? Here we see God's word that there are "NONE" that does good, contrasted with your theory that we have a nature that is neutral so that we can make a choice and do good, and some "WILL" do good. That's a contradiction to God's word. Again, it boils down to what is our authority. Is it the word of God or is it the imaginations of our own heart.

Romans 3:10-12
  • "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
  • There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
  • They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

In God's eyes, we are wicked or unclean thing. If we did any good, it is not good enough. ALL of our righteousnesses or good are nothing but filthy rags.

Isa 64:6 KJV
  • But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: What is The Nature of Man?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 06:51:38 AM »
>>>
If the nature of man is totally wicked...
<<<

According to God's word, there is no if...

Ephesians 2:3
  • "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

This of course necessarily implies that the root of God's wrath towards unsaved man lies in the depravity of his nature, which because of the fall of Adam is found within every single one of us, so that there is none good. A nature that we all had before we were moved o the divine nature of the Lord.

2nd Peter 1:4
  • "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

So again, what is your authority for declaring a good nature, which is contradictory to God's word. Our nature was carnal and subject to the wrath of God before Christ redeemed us.


Quote
>>>
...why are there people who do good?
<<<

The relevant question is, according to who? Because according to God (the authority for true Christians), there are none that does good, no not even one (Romans 3:10). If man chooses to judge by his own criteria, then I'm sure that anyone could be judged as good natured, even an adulterer with a kind heart. But that's not the criteria by which God judges.

Proverbs 16:2
  • "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."

Te fact is, approbation is the universal sin of fallen man, so of course he flatters himself believing that (by comparison with others) he or someone else is good. But man's ethics and standards are far lower that God requires, for He sees us as we are, not as we presume. The "only" way man does good is through the perfection of Christ, because anything we call good is tainted or stained by sin. Mankind can walk the earth in charity such as of Mother Teresa or they can donate of a million dollars to feed starving children, they still are not good. The world is apt to be partial in judging men, but God is impartial and judges righteously every single sin so that not one of us are good except God.

Mark 10:18
  • "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

Man looks upon the outward appearance, the outward nature, the outward appearance, while God looks upon the inward. The problem is, you're attempting to answer the question by human wisdom rather than by the Spirit of truth within God's infallible word. The world's wisdom is primarily practical, intellectual and speculative, while Christian wisdom is aurthoritative and Spiritual. The world (as well as many in the church today) defines the nature of man by the power of his own human reasoning. Therefore it surmises that there are many who are good, or that man is fundamentally a good person. But the faithful define it by the divine authority of God's word.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
  • "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."

This is the fundamental difference between true Christianity and the world. Everyone's "authority" defines what they see as good. Is it the authority of God, or of our own worldly comparisons and reasoning?

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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