[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20  (Read 4925 times)

Rick8296

  • Guest
Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« on: July 14, 2003, 05:22:43 PM »
So, according to the Old Testament, a person could beat their slave severely enough to lay them up for a day or two without being punished "because the slave is their property".  The slave owner was only to be punished if the slave died as a result of the beating.  

What are we to make of the fact that slaves could be: (1) had; (2) beaten; and (3) classified as another person's "property" according to God?  Aren't these human rights violations?

judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2003, 02:37:06 AM »
Rick8296,

I think we need to be very careful not to ‘read into’ passages such as the one you noted (below) regarding slaves.  When you look at this issue carefully and as a whole, their primary purpose appears to be symbolic.   Just as laws governing husband and wife, and child and parent, symbolize important aspects of our relationship with Christ and our Father, so too does the relationship between slave and master.

Ex 21:20-21

20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money….
26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.


Punishment or chastisement is also associated with child rearing, and no godly parent would intentionally abuse his or her child.   The above passages should be seen in a similar light.  Ultimately I think this speaks of the obvious position we hold as servants/slaves/bondsmen of Christ, as seen in these passage:

Col 4:1-3

1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven….
3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak

Eph 6:19-20

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Luke 12:45-48

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

1 Cor 12:13

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.



Remember too that God is no respecter of persons, and the body of Christ is comprised of all manner of people.

Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


Lastly, we know that God enters into all things to work His good towards those who love Him, and God also sees the end from the beginning.   As strange as it may sound, I consider it my good fortune that my ancestors were brought over as slaves, and came under the hearing of the Word, resulting in a great grandfather who was a minister in a township he co-founded in Oklahoma, and a grandmother was a godly woman who dearly loved the Lord and the Bible, and conveyed that love to many of her children and grandchildren.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Oneil

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2003, 07:00:53 AM »
 You might get a little insight on this by reading these articles concerning slavery.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/other_studies/submissive_slaves.shtml



Drew

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2003, 08:32:52 AM »
But wasn't Ham cursed and that brought about justified slavery?

judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2003, 11:08:36 AM »
Drew,

What has your personal study of Ham based on the Bible alone revealed?
Depending on what man you listen to, it was the absense of color -- white, that marked him.
But it makes no diference.  All of man was under the curse of the law, and Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law by going to the cross.  The controversy about Ham is but one example of the folly and desparately evil state of men's hearts & minds,  which makes void the Word of God.  

Beauty, like skin color, is only skin deep.   Slavery  in biblical times was based largely upon captives from war and other factors that had nothing to do with skin color.   God saves those, remember, from all nations/tongues; and He does the choosing.  As quoted earlier God "is no respecter of persons".  There are no qualifiers like 'but' or 'if' in these (and many other) verses presented earlier that attest to this truth.  Whether considered free or slave in this world, we are all free in Christ's kingdom, subject only to Him.

1 Cor 12:13

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


judy




'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2003, 11:41:25 AM »
Oneil,

Thank you for that link to the study by David Roth which I found to be solidly based upon Biblical principles.

I've extracted this small portion which I think sums it up well:

Quote
Elsewhere the scriptures teach that every Christian is one in Christ with no distinctions.

(Gal 3:28 KJV) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
However, we must not confuse the unity that we share in Christ with the differences that exist between man and women, or within God-ordained social, and political settings.

In fact, what the Apostle is presenting in Galations chapter 3 is not that no differences exist, but that thier is no difference from the viewpoint of salvation. God does not show partiality in dispensing His saving grace.

God redeems the rich and the poor, the strong and the weak, the short and the tall, the smart and the dumb. Whether one is Jew or Greek, man or women, bond or free, they all must come to Christ as destitute sinners in need of a Savior.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Elazar

  • Guest
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2003, 11:44:00 AM »
Drew--But wasn't Ham cursed and that brought about justified slavery?

If you read carefuly,you will see that Ham was not the one cursed:

Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

Genesis 9:22  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Genisis 9:25  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Canaan was the one that was cursed--not Ham.

Grace and Peace to all, E



GoldRush

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2003, 02:48:22 PM »
Rick8296,

What are we to make of the fact that slaves could be: (1) had; (2) beaten; and (3) classified as another person's "property" according to God?  Aren't these human rights violations?


Indeed human violations occur because of slavery, but the question should really be . . .why do men enslave and violate each other?

We believe that all physical realities are a reflection of spiritual truths.  And it is a spiritual truth that all of mankind is enslaved.  Enslaved to Satan because of sin.  The occurrence of temporal and physical slavery is manifestation of the spiritual slavery of all men unto Satan because of sin.

The fact that God instructs men how to live as believers amongst cultures that practice slavery, does not mean God is the cause of human slavery.  God also speaks about adultery, but God does not cause infidelity.  God also speaks about thievery, but God is not a thief.  God also speaks about murder and death, but God is not a murderer and only through man has death entered the world.  (Romans 5:12)

What the Bible reveals to us is that God works salvation amongst us, despite and because of our enslavement to Satan, and God overrules sin in His elect by redeeming us from our spiritual bondage to the devil:

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, the devil."  Hebrews 2:14

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."  Romans 8:2

"But now having been set free from sin, and having becomes slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life."  Romans 6:22



The following principle holds true throughout the Holy Scriptures regarding God's actions despite the evil works of men:

"But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people."  Genesis 50:20


J&R
GoldRush
". . Without Me, you can do nothing."
  John 15:5

Melanie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Gender: Female
  • 🌴"But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. -Psalm 52:8"
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 11:34:41 AM »

Also, as Tony Warren said in another post, let's not forget that God allowed slaves of non-Israelites in the Old Testament n order that this might be seen as a "type" representing the difference between those in Israel being free from spiritual slavery or bondage, while the non-Israelites or Gentiles were a "type" of the non-covenanted people who were held in bondage to sin.

"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 9:33-34"


This also shows that the gentile or foreigner who came to Israel could become a citizen of Israel also, as explained later in pointing to the church (Eph 2:12-19).

Dan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
  • Gender: Male
  • Dan the Man
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2019, 12:29:19 PM »

Why are you and others always quoting Tony Warren? Can't you speak for yourselves? Is his word sacred? He doesn't know everything. Maybe god allowed slavery because there was no sin in it and some people are better off in it? If there was sin involved, he would have stopped it. Correct? Many good preachers of this great country owned slaves.

Melanie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Gender: Female
  • 🌴"But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. -Psalm 52:8"
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2019, 02:20:10 PM »
Why are you and others always quoting Tony Warren?

Because unlike you he quotes the Bible and always has some fascinating insights into the word of God that are based on the word of God. Why are you always quoting John Walvoord, who has very little insight into the word of God, and a foundation of bad man authored interpretations?


Quote
If there was sin involved, he would have stopped it. Correct?

There is sin involved in murder, but God doesn't stop it. There was sin involved in David's committing murder, but he didn't stop that either. There was sin involved in Solomon's marriages, but he didn't stop that either. You assume too much and that is why your doctrines and thinking is not consistent.
 

Peng Bao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2019, 07:36:41 AM »
Why are you and others always quoting Tony Warren?

Dan, I think I can safely say that the consensus here is that if we have the choice of reading the posts of Tony Warren, You, Aquatic or George, Tony wins hands down. He's actually giving a biblical reason why slavery is mentioned in Old Testament scripture. What are you giving beside the snide remarks you three are famous for? He's different from you guys because in his posts he not only answers questions, he does so honestly and presents intelligent biblical arguments, whether we agree with them or not. You guys always corrupt the threads and present only prideful rhetoric, diatribes and condemnation. So if you have something from the bible to say, please do. Otherwise, please stay in the Miscellaneous Topics forum. In my country, you would be labeled 伪君子.

aquatic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2019, 11:54:01 PM »
In my country, you would be labeled 伪君子.

English please.

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2528
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: Is Slavery Sinful - Re: Exodus 21:20
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2019, 12:04:44 AM »
Quote
English please.

You can try using Google Translator here.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]