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Author Topic: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?  (Read 7204 times)

tony e

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2016, 01:29:18 AM »
if in the presence of a weak christian, because of their conscious: Don't drink! They might stumble into sin by going against their conscious.
if they are a pharisee forbidding: Then it is ok. Just as Christ didn't obey the pharisees made up laws.

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but not because I believe drinking is forbidden by Scripture.
Then why go beyond what scripture has said?

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and since it does NOT bring all glory and honor to God,
That is determined by the individual. Same can be said of food, or anything else under the sun.
1 Corinthians 10:29-31. "29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." ESV emphasis mine

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is reason enough to avoid all appearance of evil.
That is a product of the temperance movement. Wine is a gift from God, there is nothing evil about it until man be added to it. Sexual sins are more rampant sin in america, would anyone ban ALL sex, to stop it? (referring to sex in marriage)

Psalms 104:14-15, "14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." KJV, emphasis mine


In Deuteronomy 14, the Jews would take their tithe to Jerusalem and eat it at a yearly festival. If the distance was to far they could convert the tithe to money then convert it back to goods when they arrived in Jerusalem. Verse 26 reads,
"and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household." ESV emphasis mine. They were to be cheerful

Tony Warren

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2016, 10:58:13 AM »
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if in the presence of a weak christian, because of their conscious: Don't drink! They might stumble into sin by going against their conscious.
<<<

I would beg to differ. How would you even know you are in the presence of a weak Christian? I think it better to be selfless and abstain from drinking, rather than only care about our own personal gratification. At least that's my view, based on what I read in scripture. Better I not let my carnal need for wine and strong drink be a potential stumbling block or evil spoken of by either Christians or non-Christians. Let's not forget, it's not Christians that caution against wine and strong drink, it is God. I believe that he does so for a reason, and it's not to teach that we should go drink until the heart becomes merry.

Proverbs 23:29-32
  • "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
  • They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
  • Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
  • At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder."

The world is full of weak Christians who think if you can have one drink, they can have two, etc. So if you only drink when there are no weak Christians present, then how will you go out to drink socially without being a stumbling block to someone? You'll seldom if ever drink if you are truly conscientious of being a stumbling block to weak Christians.


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if they are a pharisee forbidding: Then it is ok. Just as Christ didn't obey the pharisees made up laws.
<<<

That's so amazingly unfair. The law of "not drinking if it would cause our brethren to stumble" is hardly a made up law or Pharisaic in any sense of the word. The law of God saying wine is a mocker is because it causes scorn because most people recognize that apart from affecting how you feel and your personality, it darkens reason and impairs judgment.

Proverbs 20:1
  • "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Not "could be" and not "might be", it does cause us to be mocked or scorned because it impairs judgment that we act differently. That's not even debatable as all agree (including God) that it does. That's passage is not a Pharisee talking, that's God saying wine is a mocker causing scorn upon us. God apparently thinks wine and strong drink causes His people to be deceived or err in judgment. Which is why He speaks so much about it throughout scripture. So even though wine in and of itself is not sinful, clearly it is also not wise (in the biblical sense) for God's judges to partake socially, being separated as a Priest unto the service to Him. All things lawful for us, but are not profitable, appropriate or judicious.

1st Corinthians 6:11-12
  • "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
  • All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

Why? Because we are a holy people, separated from the unholy world for the service of God. The fact is, the existence of carnal appetites does not prove the lawfulness of their gratification. i.e., it's lawful for me to have a drink of wine, but not necessarily appropriate or judicious for me to go out drinking. As opposed to those who claim they have open liberty to go out socially and drink wine and strong drink to their heart's content, so long as they (according to their criterion) do not get too impaired. The truth is, the very fact that one "feels good" after one drink proves they are actually impaired or have a change of their mental acuities. Which is why God (not I) says it impairs judgment.


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but not because I believe drinking is forbidden by Scripture.

Then why go beyond what scripture has said?
<<<

That's a straw man argument. We're not going beyond what is said. That conclusion is based on your assumption and a product of your very strong belief in the correctness of Christians drinking socially, not of what we're actually saying.

Romans 14:21
  • "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

So no, we're actually not going beyond what scripture says, we are bearing witness specifically to what scripture says. That's what I mean by saying, in the Spirit of Christ we are being conscientious, dutiful and punctilious according to the whole of Scripture.


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and since it does NOT bring all glory and honor to God,

That is determined by the individual.
<<<

That's wrong again, as that smacks of private interpretation, or something determined by an individual rather than what is written. My doctrine is determined by the harmonized collection of things I find "actually written" in scripture concerning drinking. It is never determined by what any individual (including myself) might want to believe. And what I find in scripture is that we are to be selfless (a forgotten word), humble and look towards the welfare of our neighbors and fellow Christians rather than ourselves. Not to mention that we not give any appearance of evil, a avenue for mocking or scorn. Moreover, I find nowhere in scripture that servants of God partaking in wine and strong drink brings glory or honor to God. On the contrary. I find passage after passage after passage warning about the pitfalls found in wine and strong drink. I find Priests are not to drink. I find kings are not to drink. Are we not Kings and Priests to God? I find God equating it to evil spiritual influences. I find God equating it to something His servants should not do, and to that which brings about a lack of sound judgment, etc., etc.

Proverbs 31:4
  • "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:"

I would find it easy to support drinking wine and strong drink socially "if" I ignore the many scriptures condemning it in favor of the few misunderstood passages which might "seem" to illustrate that drinking liquor is a blessing. How I don't know, because drinking to the point of feeling good is not a blessing from God, it is to excess.  ...which idea would in and of itself seem strange considering the preponderance of Biblical evidence against impairment.


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1 Corinthians 10:29-31. "29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." ESV emphasis mine
<<<

Your liberty should not be determined by someone else’s conscience, but it should be goverened by Biblical guidelines and principles and rules. There are rules. And one of them is that one scripture cannot negate another scripture, it will only qualify it. I say again, the existence of carnal appetites does not prove the lawfulness of their gratification. Would you use this passage to justify a Christian drinking blood "if" it was done to the glory of God? I would say, probably you wouldn't. Because you can't drink blood to the glory of God (unless it is the blood of Christ). Even though there's at least some blood left in most any meat you partake in, it's not the same as having "liberty" to drink blood. Far be it from me to pass judgment on Christians, but I won't neglect the Scriptures either. We are Spiritually kings and priests unto God, separated unto service of God, and therefore should abstain from wine and strong drink, for that reason alone IMHO.

Leviticus 10:9-10
  • "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
  • And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;"

This precept was for the priests of God. Why? Just as stated--in order to illustrate they were separated from the unholy for the service of God, just as we are.. We are these priests of God today, separated from the unholy, and I believe that as priests and Kings unto God we should also abstain from wine and strong drink. It's a sad state of affairs that Christians today don't want to be separated/distinct/special/set apart from the ways of the unsaved, but desire to be as close to "like the world" as possible. That's the true travesty--not that some Christians are conscientious and choose not to drink socially.


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 is reason enough to avoid all appearance of evil.

That is a product of the temperance movement.
<<<

Again, so unfair. The temperance movement has nothing to do with what we are saying. We're presenting scripture that we believe justifies our views. The only one bringing up the history of the temperance movement here is you. We haven't presented their quotes, the sound bites of the people of that era or newspaper clippings from the 1820's. On the contrary, our view is the product of Scripture, a conscientious Spirit and a love of the brethren. Not of any movement of the 19th century, but of Scripture that continually speaks of the impropriety of God's people being given to drinking.

1st Timothy 3:2-3
  • "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
  • Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"

God did not declare that the overseers of the church were not to be given to wine because of the temperance movement, but because God knows and understands what some Christians today don't. That wine and strong drink are a mocker and perverts judgment. It is not something for the kings and priests of God.


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Wine is a gift from God, there is nothing evil about it until man be added to it.
<<<

The problem is, man is added to everything. i.e., there was nothing wrong with a offering to God of the fruit of the ground either, but God had no respect for Cain's offering. Why? It was because man was added to it. So it gets back to what I bore witness to before.

1st Corinthians 6:12a
  • "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient:."

In other words, all things lawful for us, but all things definitely are not profitable, judicious or even appropriate. As for wine being a gift and blessing to man, as it pertains and points to Christ it is. But as we all know, those given to wine and strong drink are not blessed of God, but condemned of God all throughout scripture. So it is clear that the scripture you quote is qualified by other Scriptures. The question is "how" is wine a blessing of God? The wine and oil in Scripture being a gift from God points to Christ, not to literal fermented grapes that people will use to get high on, or the oil of a physical tree that feels so good when we smooth it on our physical bodies. If that was the case, then every product on earth that makes us "feel good" is a gift from God, from Cocaine to LSD to anything that brings joy to people. That's not what God is saying about wine, joy, cheerfulness or the medicinal properties of oil. Oil and wine are singled out by God for Spiritual reasons, and not to imply being somewhat inebriated makes us feel good and that is a Blessing, or that oil poured "in or on" anything is a true cure for your ailment. They all point to Christ, who is the true oil of gladness and the wine wherein we will find gladness of heart. ..but that's a whole other study in itself.


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Psalms 104:14-15, "14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." KJV, emphasis mine

<<<

Using your criterion, those who get high off wine so that they are glad of heart or joyful, are blessed of God. Obviously, that does not follow since God does not condone inebriation, which is how one comes to the point of gladness of heart. And look at the context, it's not saying drinking wine is for the purpose of Christians being glad. He that needs wine or strong drink to be glad has another problem. Or that Christians should put oil on their face to make them shine, or that bread will strengthen a man's heart. These scriptures have to be studied and dealt with honestly to discern what they are actually saying, else we'd come to the conclusion that every Christian who eats bread will be strong. The truth is, unless that bread is the bread of life, their is no strength at all.

Again, Oil, wine and bread are all synonyms for the work of Christ. His blood is the wine that brings the Christian heart to joy, not alcohol.  His anointing of us by the Spirit is the oil that brings a gleam to our faces, not physical oil. And His Word is the bread by which we live and that strengthens our heart, not bread baked in an oven. THESE are Spiritual the blessings of God. Physically speaking, the whole world drinks wine, uses oil and eats bread, and they are not blessed of God. So again, the Scripture must be qualified.

Revelation 3:18
  • "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

Same principle here as we see throughout scripture regarding physical prosperity, joy and medicines. It's not saying physical clothing, riches and eye salve are blessings that make us clothed, rich or able to see clearly, but Spiritual blessings which these physical things pointed to.


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In Deuteronomy 14, the Jews would take their tithe to Jerusalem and eat it at a yearly festival. If the distance was to far they could convert the tithe to money then convert it back to goods when they arrived in Jerusalem. Verse 26 reads,
"and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household." ESV emphasis mine. They were to be cheerful
<<<

You "seem" to be equating Christians partaking in physical wine and strong drink to them being blessed and having the joy of the Lord. So how does that align with Non Christians partaking in physical wine and strong drink? It's them being blessed and having the joy of the Lord? Tat doesn't make sense.

The fact is, this wine and oil in the Old Testament was a type, an example, a shadow, a skia, a portrait or picture of things far more important than wine. Just as rain, bread, milk, honey or oil. This portrait of prosperity, joy and contentment all pointed to our security in Christ. For the wicked had all these things and it didn't mean they were blessed of God.

Joel 2:22-24
  • "Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
  • Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
  • And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil."

Wheat, fats oil and wine all pointing to the joy and prosperity in Christ, not of any blessings in physical wine, oil or wheat for bread. All these things do the wicked have in abundance (much more than the righteous) and they are not blessed! Selah. Fig trees, grapes of the vine, wine and oil. They are not the true blessings of God that scripture points to as bringing joy, cheerfulness and healing "anymore" than God saying Israel shall dwell in peace pointed to the physical nation of Israel not being attacked by the physical nations around her. It's all spiritually discerned. The wine, Israel, the fruit of the vine bringing joy, the admonition that kings are not to drink, they all have Spiritual discernment in view, and those views far from Pharisaic.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


tony e

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2016, 02:15:51 AM »
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I would beg to differ. How would you even know you are in the presence of a weak Christian?
In most cases you wouldn't. Only refraining when you are knowledgeable that there is one near. Compare to the case in 1 Corinthians 10:27-28, One is free to eat meat that is offered to idols, unless a weak christian is present and objects to eating it. They don't refrain from eating because of the hypothetical/possibility of a weak christian being present. If no objection, then they are free to eat.
"27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience—" ESV. Not for your conscience but theirs!
This is the context of v.31, "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." You can eat meat that has been sacrificed to an idol and still be eating to the glory of God.

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I find nowhere in scripture that servants of God partaking in wine and strong drink brings glory or honor to God.
Scripture quoted above this (1 Cor. 10:31), Communion, many of the Old Testament sacrifices involving wine.

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That's so amazingly unfair. The law of "not drinking if it would cause our brethren to stumble" is hardly a made up law or Pharisaic in any sense of the word.
Never said it was...
Pharisee law that I would refer to would be something like...It is a sin to drink. The bible forbids alcohol. The severe judging of the ones who do drink, whether at home or socially. A weak christian might drink against their conscious, with a pharisee there is no chance of this. They are totally convinced that it is a sin. Though I do admit, it would probably be best to refrain if someone does object. I wouldn't eat pork just to ruffle the feathers of an Seventh Day Adventist. Some might.

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"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

So no, we're actually not going beyond what scripture says, we are bearing witness specifically to what scripture says. That's what I mean by saying, in the Spirit of Christ we are being conscientious, dutiful and punctilious according to the whole of Scripture.
I agree, as I said in my first post. One should refrain if they believe they are around a weak christian. Can I ask you this? Are you a vegetarian? Romans 14 is about whether or not one can eat meat. Are you applying verse 21 that one should TOTALLY submit to the weaker Christians conscious? Not just in their presence but totally? Is Paul telling the Church at Rome to be vegetarians in this verse? Of course not, right? That would negate what was said in the beginning of the chapter.

Romans 14, "1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." ESV

Don't use your liberty to intentionally stumble a brother.
verse 20, "Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats." ESV

George

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2016, 02:17:56 AM »
Tony,
  What kind of conservative are you? You seem to take a lot of liberal positions. First smoking, then guns at church and now this? This certainly is not a Reformed denomination position. Are you slipping into liberal theologies?

Pearson

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2016, 11:45:51 AM »
Tony,
  What kind of conservative are you?

[Soapbox mode on]

The good and honest kind. The kind who cares enough about others to say what he does for their benefit instead of his own. The kind who would put up with the headaches of running a website and forum like this when the rest of you (and me) would be pulling your hair out and throwing up your hands. The kind who is willing to sacrifice any selfish desire for wine for the sake of his neighbor. The kind who would go against the grain when it's not popular because he holds scripture as his authority rather than consensus. The kind to put up with people like you and Fred when others would have kicked you out on your butts long ago. The kind who conserves Christianity.

That Kind! 

What kind are you?


Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

laurenp

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2016, 12:48:29 PM »
Tony,
  What kind of conservative are you?

[Soapbox mode on]

The good and honest kind. The kind who cares enough about others to say what he does for their benefit instead of his own. The kind who would put up with the headaches of running a website and forum like this when the rest of you (and me) would be pulling your hair out and throwing up your hands. The kind who is willing to sacrifice any selfish desire for wine for the sake of his neighbor. The kind who would go against the grain when it's not popular because he holds scripture as his authority rather than consensus. The kind to put up with people like you and Fred when others would have kicked you out on your butts long ago. The kind who conserves Christianity.

That Kind! 

What kind are you?


Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]


Well said!! :Fighting:

Laura Tomlinson

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2016, 01:11:34 PM »
The kind who would put up with the headaches of running a website and forum like this when the rest of you (and me) would be pulling your hair out and throwing up your hands.

That Kind! 

What kind are you?


Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

 :amen:   :amen:    and     :amen:  I know I would be pulling out my hair.  That's why none of us have a website or forum. We're not "that" selfless.  :)

Amen  to all your points brother Pearson

George

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2016, 12:53:14 PM »
The kind who would put up with the headaches of running a website and forum like this when the rest of you (and me) would be pulling your hair out and throwing up your hands.

Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

 :offtopic:  Besides, a website runs itself and the forum is on automatic. 

The "point" is, he's not in line with other conservative Christians with his ideas that going out and drinking  socially should be frowned upon. Or that Christians shouldn't smoke. Or that a Pastor can't have a gun in church to protect his flock. Or that Christians can never get divorced, even for fornication. Every conservative Christian I know takes the opposite opinion. So it's fair to question what kind of conservative Christian he is. And unlike you, I think he would agree.

PS, when you get a forum of your own, then you can kick me out. Until then. Well, you know!


Pearson

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2016, 02:58:33 PM »
:offtopic:  Besides, a website runs itself and the forum is on automatic. 

[Soapbox mode on]

You have a lot to say George, so why don't you have a website and-or forum to spread the gospel? Or anyone else here for that matter?

....Oh, I see, too time consumming, too much of a struggle, too expensive, too much of a inconvenience, to much bother, trouble, problem or a hassle. You fill in the blank. There's a reason none of us here (to my knowledge) have a forum or website. I said it before and I'll say it again until proven otherwise. We're not selfless or willing to make that sacrifice. It's easy to say something's easy, until you have to do it yourself. As for off-topic, your question of what type Christian he is is off-topic. The topic is drinking socially.



Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]
 

Fred

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2016, 06:10:44 PM »
That's why none of us have a website or forum. We're not "that" selfless.  :)


You're wrong, Erik's got a website. Had it for years and years. Here's the link

http://tribulationsigns.com

of course, there's nothing on it, and there's been nothing on it for years and years. Probably he's just too busy ;)
 
But you never know, one of the years :)  Maybe someday when we're all dead and gone.

Oh but the tribulation signs will be over then. Ha Ha!  :laugh:

Erik Diamond

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2016, 07:01:27 PM »
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Probably he's just too busy

You are right, Fred. I have been very busy taking care things as a husband, father, coach, Bible teacher for the deaf, counselor, Facebook Group moderator, and professional creative designer. TribulationSigns is one of my long term goals that has been development for a while as I decided to delay the launch so I could add some resources, my studies, and made some improvements to my site as my design skills grows.  I am not in a hurry. It takes time because it is a big project.   

For the record, the site is for God.  I will decide when I can launch it and it is between me and God.  In the meanwhile, I have a private Facebook group to warm people up for the launch.

Feel free to take a peek on my website again, Fred.  Quit making a fool of yourself because you will not be part of it anyway.  ::)

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Fred

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2016, 07:39:20 PM »
Whatever. There is no shame in having better things to do than run a Christian site or forum.  :-X

The point is, this alleged "coming site" has been under construction since at least 2006. That's at least 10 years minimum, and I think way before that. But who's counting ;)   Here's proof!

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=1569.msg16284#msg16284

That's just what I could find from at least 2006. My only point is that no one here should hold their breath for this "alleged" under construction or alleged "coming soon" website. Because let's be honest, no simple website is under construction for over 10 years. That's just ridiculous. tribulationsigns.com is just a url domain name holder. That's all. Remindyou of anyone?

 Luke 9:59-62
 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

I'm sure you've got more important things to do Erik, feed your family, build a barn, take your wife on vacation. isn't that the point here :) W've all got better things to do.

Now for the topic at hand, yes Christians can drink alcohol socially with unbelievers or with believers. They can drink in their house or at their party, or at a Donald Trump fund raiser.  Anywhere, anytime with anyone. The ones who are against this are liberals, Amillennialists and Democrats who would have you throw all your hard earned money in the direction of the poor and lazy.


bloodstone

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2016, 03:31:34 AM »
There's a reason none of us here (to my knowledge) have a forum or website. I said it before and I'll say it again until proven otherwise. We're not selfless or willing to make that sacrifice. It's easy to say something's easy, until you have to do it yourself.
Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

You can say that again. As some of you may remember, I used to have a Christian website and forum called "Bloodstone."  I think it may still be viewed on the Internet Archive (at least it use to).  I can tell you from personal experience that it drove me crazy. From updating software, to crashes, to emails, the trolls, the spammers, the day to day operation, the moderations, my postings, I couldn't handle it and just to let it go. So I have such great respect now for anyone who can do it, especially a huge one like the Mountain Retreat. Pearson is so right.  It's easy to claim something is easy until you actually have to do it yourself.  There's my testimony.

The drinking socially issue I have mixed feelings about. I don't drink socially for pretty much the reasons already given. That, and no one can give me a acceptable answer of just "why they want to drink so badly." Christian liberty is not an answer.  But I do not think drinking is a sin. On the other hand, I think it is a bad witness for Christians. So the count is 14 conscientious Christians.

Mila Ostrovsky

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2016, 12:30:27 AM »

I don't drink for biblical reasons, but I don't condemn any Christian who drinks. If his conscience is clear, I'm not going to think badly of him. Or her.

Melanie

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Re: Can Christians Drink Alcohol?
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2016, 03:43:38 AM »
Drinking encourages drunkenness in the weaker Christians. They feel they have licence.

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;  Ephesians 5:18"

If you're feeling the effects of wine, you're not in control of your senses. Charles H. Spurgeon said it best,

"My soul might be perpetually dropping showers of tears, if it might know the doom and destruction brought on by that one demon, and by that one demon only! Though I am no total abstainer, I hate drunkenness as much as any man breathing, and have been the means of bringing many poor creatures to relinquish this bestial indulgence."

 


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