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Author Topic: Gun Toting Ministers?  (Read 12475 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #105 on: May 23, 2019, 06:58:05 PM »
Quote from: Tony Warren
I'm afraid that ship has sailed. I have it on a memory stick backuop but I'm not going to resurrect it or place it back online. Sorry.

Does that means your studies on the beast of Daniel and Revelation won't be back online?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dan

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #106 on: May 24, 2019, 12:26:35 PM »
Thanks for letting me know.

Why? Trying to beat Conservative Christians over the head with a lot of Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns could be considered a form of bullying by liberals.

Reformer

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #107 on: May 24, 2019, 05:47:01 PM »
Wow!  I'm convinced that there is a mentality of the fanatical Trump supporter that just doesn't fit with the values and honor of Christianity or the indivisible church. At least when I read the posts all from these people, they all seem scattered, not well thought out, carnal, and certainly not of a Christ Spirit-filled nature. Not some of them, all of them seem to follow the same chaotic reasoning. Just blabbering on about nothing of moral importance, character, or Godly design, just a lot of rhetoric.

I believe that the thinking demonstrated in Dan's posts are consistent with some others, but inconsistent with the thinking of a Christ-centered Christian. They are more in line with the carnal thinking world that thinks this world is all that they have. Of earthly Israel, of fascism, of great political leaders, of automatic weapons in the hands of Ministers, of nations, lands and of races. Your eyes are forever on the world rather than Christ. That's why you never seem to speak of his person or his truth or his call to obedience. Humility and truth are not on your mind.

1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Despite what you obviously think, this world isn't destined to be saved by a position, a party, the gun, Trump or anyone else. A Christian isn't sitting around concerned that his Pastor should be carrying a big gun into the church to protect it from some imagined lunatic that might threaten them. That's the lust and thinking of the world. True believers know that Christ is the protector of the church and he alone decides who lives and dies. He is sovereign and so ultimately decides both when and where. Get your mind out of the rhetoric of the NRA and into the religion of Christ-centered faith. The best way for the Pastor to protect the church is to keep it faithful, not to bring a magnum up to the pew.  ::)  ::)  ::)

Dan

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #108 on: May 24, 2019, 07:03:31 PM »

So why are you bringing Trump into this? I was talking about ou liberals trying to beat conservative Christians over the head with Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns. Guns don't kill, people kill.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #109 on: May 24, 2019, 07:54:14 PM »
Quote
So why are you bringing Trump into this? I was talking about ou liberals trying to beat conservative Christians over the head with Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns

First, people like Tony Warren, reformer and others have often QUOTED you Scripture regarding "guns" on this thread alone and Tony's "guns and the Bible"  article. You denied it because you did not like what you hear and start making empty accusation that we are "liberals". 

Second, you seem to be obsessed with labeling Christians as "liberal" or "conservative' depending on what they believe in.  Do you realize that the liberal and conservative are NOT theological, but political words as a weapon to divide church?

If I do not support divorce and remarriage, will you accuse me of liberal?

If I do not support homosexual marriage and pastors, will you accuse me of liberal?

If I do not support guns, will you accuse me of liberal?

We go what God's Word actually says on subject, not personal, political, emotional, social, ideologies rhetoric.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Reformer

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #110 on: May 25, 2019, 12:13:12 AM »
So why are you bringing Trump into this?

Because as I said, all you Trump supporters have the very same nonspiritual carnal mentality that you can't wait upon the Lord, you have to do everything carnally yourself. Your desire is carnal in that you believe falsely that you can fix the world, make the nations Christian, destroy the liberals, arm the Pastors for the safety of the church, minimize the scriptures, excuse lies when it is expedient, ignore the truth when it is inexpedient, and so on and so forth. You all seem of the same mind and the same mentality of humanism. No trust in God, but plenty of trust in yourself and your so-called God Blessed leaders. That's why! It's always the same inarticulate thinking masquerading as a coherent argument. As Christians, God didn't give us to correct the world, he gave us to go forth and evangelize4 the world. That's why I said what I did. Your mind is on man and this world, mine is on righteousness wherever it may be. We obviously serve two different religions. Mine is to serve the sovereign God of truth and yours to serve the carnal nature of man. As many have already told you, America will never be great, guns will never solve our problems and political leaders or parties will never be on a holy quest of righteousness. Join the church and learn what that means.


Quote
I was talking about ou liberals trying to beat conservative Christians over the head with Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns.

Funny you should mention that. I for one would love to be beaten over the head with scripture. I might learn something.

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

That's not just about your kids or a physical rod, if you could only by grace understand that.


Quote
Guns don't kill, people kill.

Guns do kill, they were invented specifically for that purpose. But as you know, this thread isn't about guns or gun ownership, it's about the appropriateness of Pastors or Ministers taking guns into the house of God to protect the people there. I was always taught that the way the Shepherd protects his sheep was through the word of God. That's the only sword that I ever saw them use. Maybe we have different churches and different shepherds and different Bibles.

Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This is the sword of judgment my God gives to me, I don't know what sword yours gives.

Philly Dawg

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #111 on: May 25, 2019, 08:27:15 AM »
That's not just about your kids or a physical rod, if you could only by grace understand that.

 )amen(  )GoodPopst(

Now there's the power of my God. Truth over rhetoric, bias and Politics. And all God's people said Amen
  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Halle

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #112 on: May 25, 2019, 09:47:38 AM »
 )amen( Erik!

Halle

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #113 on: May 25, 2019, 04:09:05 PM »
)amen( Erik!

...and Philly and Reformer.

Trevor

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #114 on: May 26, 2019, 07:46:01 AM »
Why? Trying to beat Conservative Christians over the head with a lot of Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns could be considered a form of bullying by liberals.

Quote
Trying to beat Conservative Christians over the head with a lot of Bible verses that have nothing to do with guns

Actually Dan, all Bible verses have something to do with guns, swords, munitions and shields. You just do not understood the spiritual language of God.

Isaiah 33:16
"He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure."

Matthew 26:52
"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"

Do you not think that God has the capability, the power or the desire to protect his church? Of course he does. He is our only protection from Satan and his ministers. You think he leaves an important thing like that up to a Pastor with a shotgun? You're kidding yourself.

A Mind For Truth
Dr. C. Trevor Bavinck
New York, NY

Dan

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2019, 12:29:15 AM »
First, people like Tony Warren, reformer and others have often QUOTED you Scripture regarding "guns" on this thread alone and Tony's "guns and the Bible"  article. You denied it because you did not like what you hear and start making empty accusation that we are "liberals". 

Nothing empty about it. You are liberals because only liberals condemn the President because they don't like that he's pro gun, pro Israel, pro christian, pro states rights, pro economy, pro usa, anti liberal and says what he means.


Quote
Second, you seem to be obsessed with labeling Christians as "liberal" or "conservative' depending on what they believe in.  Do you realize that the liberal and conservative are NOT theological, but political words as a weapon to divide church?

You divided the church when you started this liberal anti gun evil, this amillennial theology and started attacking Israel as not being the true Israel. When you started talking about Christians and ministers not having the common sense to take protection for their flock with them to church. When you started this fake news about our president lying and being immoral. Liberal and conservative are theological terms because they mean Christian and not Christian.

Quote
If I do not support divorce and remarriage, will you accuse me of liberal?

No, I'll call you out of touch and puritanical.


Quote
If I do not support guns, will you accuse me of liberal?

Yes!


Quote
We go what God's Word actually says on subject, not personal, political, emotional, social, ideologies rhetoric.

Doesn't God's word say take up your sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

So get it together and listen to those words.


Erik Diamond

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2019, 09:35:34 PM »
Quote from: Dan
Doesn't God's word say take up your sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

So get it together and listen to those words.

Typical carnal response.

As Tony wrote the other day...

"Jesus told no one that they were now unsafe physically, and should now take up the sword, purse, and script. At least, not in the way that you are attempting to portray it. But we've been down this road before.

Luke 10:3-4
  • "Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
  • Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way."
..Hmmmmmmm! But then..

Luke 22:35-36
  • "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
  • Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Hmmmmmmm! He who hath an ear, let him hear. And I don't mean Physical ear. Selah!The fact is, many Christians make a conscious decision to choose to believe in, and trust in swords and guns, using verses such as this, improperly, despite the fact that when Peter took up the very literal/physical sword Jesus rebuked him and said (and rather clearly) "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword"....But listen, if you want to go buy a gun and wait for someone to break in your house, you are free to do whatever you want. make your peace with God, not with me. It's your prerogative if that makes you feel safe. But as for me and my house, we will trust in the Lord, knowing that our sword is the word of God, our purse is the treasure that is hidden in a field, where one has sold all to obtain, and our script is the Hidden Manna, the bread from heaven. And truly, knowing this, "we are prepared." We lack nothing!

Daniel 3:17-18

  • "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
  • But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up".
Was Daniel tempting the Lord? I can't imagine Christians today having such faith and such trust. So Fred, I'm sure you would call that tempting the Lord. But the fact is, God is not only able, but will deliver His elect from a burglar, thief, car jacker. Or consider that maybe He sent them as a chastisement. Either way, you're not going to rewrite history by having a gun. You think that God watches over the sparrows but leaves "His People" to fend for themselves to die at the hands of a "Thief In The Night" No, No, No, My God is a much different God than that. A God where not a hair of our head perishes without His say so. Reformed disfunction and misunderstanding of conservatism notwithstanding. I don't follow traditions of men, but of God.For my faith tells me that it is foolish to think that I or my family would be killed, because I didn't have a Gun, and God hath not allowed it. Selah. It is equally foolish for me to think that if I were to purchase a gun, I would prevent my death, or the death of anyone close to me. But that's just me. I believe that (all lip service to "Sovereignty of God" aside) God is still in control, He still has the say of who lives and who dies. You may think your gun is making you more secure, but that is nothing but a worldly illusion. If your peace of mind is determined by a hand full of steel, then there's definitely a trust/faith problem. That's my view.   

He who hath an ear, let him hear!"
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Bunyan

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2019, 07:07:20 AM »
Nothing empty about it. You are liberals because only liberals condemn the President

Clearly not true and just another lie perpetrated by the children of the Devil intended to misdirect from the truth, as all lies are.

 
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says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done
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Mark

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #118 on: May 31, 2019, 07:10:32 PM »

Amen Erik, well said.  )GoodPopst(

Psalm 9:9-10

 9 The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble.
10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.


“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5,6

Nikki

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2019, 01:32:18 PM »
many Christians make a conscious decision to choose to believe in, and trust in swords and guns, using verses such as this, improperly, despite the fact that when Peter took up the very literal/physical sword Jesus rebuked him and said (and rather clearly) "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword"....But listen, if you want to go buy a gun and wait for someone to break in your house, you are free to do whatever you want. make your peace with God, not with me. It's your prerogative if that makes you feel safe. But as for me and my house, we will trust in the Lord, knowing that our sword is the word of God, our purse is the treasure that is hidden in a field, where one has sold all to obtain, and our script is the Hidden Manna, the bread from heaven. And truly, knowing this, "we are prepared." We lack nothing!

 )preach_(  Nice! And not one of us is going to die before our time. God is sovereign. It seems not everyone believes that.

 


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