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Author Topic: Why Does God Allow Evil and why is there Suffering?  (Read 9022 times)

John

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2016, 06:22:36 AM »
Quote
The question was, if there is a God, why does he allow evil and suffering?

First, the idea of a self-created universe where matter pops into existence and then directs itself into increasing complexity over time, growing greater information/molecular systems via random chaos, to finally conclude this self-improvement with sentient moral beings, which would be the case if there was no God, defies logic and violates all operative physical laws. There must be a God and that God must be the Creator. Any other explanation is to dabble in insanity.

But to your question: why allow evil?  The answer could be framed as a question in reply: Why can't God permit evil to exist? Is there something inherently suspect in God's morality if He has chosen not to prevent wicked people from acting wickedly?

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Yes, I understand the import of the original question is to stake the claim: since God is good and cannot create evil and since evil exists, then God does not exist or God is evil. Hence, Christianity is a lie.

But, God created everything good ... He did not create evil. The entire creation was in obedience to God originally - until man's heart transgressed God's Law. Since God permitted this rebellion and since Adam and Eve committed this evil we can conclude that it was God's intention to allow the testing of Adam and Eve (by means of Lucifer) and it was His intention that the test be sufficient to disclose sin in Adam and Lucifer.

If God intended to do things differently, then He would have, would He not? The Fall was not a surprise to God. Obviously, the rebellion of His creation and the recovery of His creation in His Son was a better resultant than any other possible moral solution and the one that God chose. If it wasn't the most perfect means, then a perfect God would have done something more perfect -- which we can conclude, whether we like it or not, God's permission to allow sin in the world was the most perfect way.

The evil that we see in the world is not God's doing, it is man's. God is not morally obligated to stop men from sinning (though He does to a degree, else we would kill ourselves off in short order). If God intended to avoid the results of sin: death and disease, He could have eternally prevented Adam and Eve from ever disobeying thus no evil; or simply never issued any decree at all that required obedience, where there is no Law there is no transgression of the Law, isn't that right?

Since God cannot transgress His own Law, God cannot sin or have a nature that is evil. God by definition can only do good and be good. Since God only does good and is in His nature perfectly good He is by definition wise. The wisdom of God is greater (by far) than the wisdom of man.

1Co_3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

The wisdom of man says, "God cannot be good to allow suffering and evil to exist". God does not explain His actions to man, as if He must justify Himself before the mind of wicked people. Instead God says to man:

Job 40:1-4  Moreover Yahweh answered Job,  (2)  "Shall he who argues contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it."  (3)  Then Job answered Yahweh,  (4)  "Behold, I am of small account. What shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth.

In other words, God is in charge and does all things perfectly. All the suffering and death this world has experienced was the result of individual people - each one of us. It is the nature of evil people to blame God, but such perverse twisted logic is devoid of meaning. With God we can say:

Job 38:1-2  Then Yahweh answered Job out of the whirlwind,  (2)  "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

There is no knowledge or reasoning in man's assertions against God. Man is like an unreasoning beast before God.

Therefore, the answer to the questioner wondering if God can be trusted is simple:

Psa 147:5  Great is our Lord, and mighty in power. His understanding is infinite.

and

Rev 15:3-4 "...Great and marvelous are your works, Lord God, the Almighty! Righteous and true are your ways, you King of the nations.  (4)  Who wouldn't fear you, Lord, and glorify your name? For you only are holy. For all the nations will come and worship before you. For your righteous acts have been revealed."

The regenerate can praise the holiness and perfection of God, and we know that the source of evil is entirely the fault of man. We even know that God's eternal plan included man's rebellion. But we also know that there was no other way to bring about the prefect end that God planned - the salvation of a people for Himself.

Wicked men can always devise or imagine another way ... where evil would hypothetically not exist, but we must remind ourselves that we are in no position to argue morality with God, for our ideas are foolishness at best.

Dan 4:35  ... and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

And after all the words are spoken and the arguments thrown back and forth, in the end those made righteous in Christ, having the Spirit and mind of Christ, agree that the creator of the world will indeed do right. The wicked will receive their due recompense and God will make a people for Himself - all the scales of justice will balance:

Gen 18:25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

john
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Margaret

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2016, 09:20:37 AM »

Thank you so much John, that was very enlightening and well stated. Do you mind if I print this out and give it to my friend?

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2016, 09:08:07 PM »
Quote from: John
Since God permitted this rebellion and since Adam and Eve committed this evil we can conclude that it was God's intention to allow the testing of Adam and Eve (by means of Lucifer) and it was His intention that the test be sufficient to disclose sin in Adam and Lucifer.

Okay, John...

God did not create evil...then where did Lucifer comes from? Where was he before the fall of man? When and how did he become "evil" after God created him (perfectly)? And his role for the original sin of Adam and Eve?

Yes, I have heard some opinions, but I am curious what you think about Lucifer based on comment you made to Margaret.

Thanks.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Maurice

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2016, 04:11:41 AM »
Can anyone here help me with an answer of why God allows evil and suffering in the world. Thanks so much.

Christians have many different explanations for why god allows suffering,war and evil but I don't know that any of them satisfy the question. I don't think that there really is an answer. But that's just my opinion. At least I haven't heard a good answer. Maybe god doesn't allow evil or suffering. Maybe people blame their own evil on a god. And what god are you referring to?

Maurice

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2016, 04:14:20 AM »

Okay, John...

God did not create evil..



According to who? You?

Isaiah 45:7
   "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Who said that Erik? Who said I create evil? Wasn't it your god if we're going to believe your bible?

John

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2016, 04:47:42 AM »
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God did not create evil...then where did Lucifer comes from?

Here's the way I see it (I make assumptions here so be forewarned - this is mostly conjecture and you are free to disagree)

Clearly, Lucifer and all the angelic beings were created by God, they have a beginning. Since the purpose of angels we are told is to minister to the elect on behalf of God, it is probable that there was no need for angels until the creation event. It is also probable that God intended to have a witness to His glory in creation, and that was via the angels. So, sometime earlier (not recorded) God created the angels, prior to the beginning of Day One.

Heb 1:13-14  But which of the angels has he told at any time, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?"  (14)  Aren't they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

The timing of the creation of the host of heaven would be one of the first creative acts ... not mentioned in Genesis (or the Bible) since Genesis 1 describes the creation of all the host of earth, not the host of heaven. Yes it is conjecture, but it is not unlike God to maintain a witness in heaven to the unfolding of His salvation plan (which began with Gen1:1).

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Prior to the "beginning" of God's creative act there was only the Trinity - no time existed. One of the first events that coincided with God's creation plan is the bringing forth of time. The Sun, moon, and stars were not created until Day 4 as markers, but time still existed as creative acts occurred in sequence. Time was divided into two parts on Day 1, but it already existed prior to its division. It seems illogical that the angels had existence prior to the creation of time - their existence doesn't extend into that vast otherness when there was only God.

Heb 1 describes the superiority of Christ to the angels, where the angels are but temporal created beings "who makes His angels spirits" but to God (Christ) the emphasis includes His superior elevation to equality with God, "Your throne, O God, is forever an ever" - defining the infinite nature of Christ and His eternality over-against the subservience and limitations of angelic beings, which are inferior.

So, since angels serve God in the cause of the elect, their creation preceded the creation of those they would serve (lest they have no purpose in existence) and further, their creation would be prior to the cosmos' creation so that they can act as witnesses to all that God did.

That means Lucifer witnessed creation - including the creation of Adam and Eve.

Clearly all that God created was perfect, without sin, both Lucifer, the angels, to include Adam and Eve. Since both Eve and Adam rebelled (being perfect) we know that perfection does not exclude the ability to break God's Law. But what Law existed prior to the first being given in the garden? I think the answer is that there was none.

This is the first moral Law:

Gen 2:16-17   And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Eating you may eat of every tree in the garden; (17)   but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat, for in the day of the eating of it, dying you shall die.

Certainly all of sentient creation had knowledge of Good - all that God made and did up to that point was good.  But Adam and Eve did not know evil - unless and until they ate what was forbidden, which was to do evil. The very act was self-fulfilling and transforming within them,  in that they gained this knowledge not through study and observation but via their own doing.  They "knew" evil because now they were evil.

Lucifer was spirit and the commandment did not apply directly to him not to eat. Spirits do not eat. His sin was in deceiving God's elect. Rather than serving righteously on behalf of God, Lucifer misrepresented God to the man and woman. Lucifer violated the very purpose of his creation. For this he was cast out of heaven - meaning his permanent dwelling was no longer tolerated in God's presence (though he could visit to challenge and insult God on a regular basis). The rebelling angelic spirits were to be on the earth with rebel man, whom they now rule over, but no place was left for them in heaven.

So, what caused Adam and Eve to sin? Their sin was the desire to obtain more than God's provision allowed for them - same as you and me when we sin. God illuminates a path for us to walk - but we run ahead (and run quickly into trouble). We think we are missing out if we only have the blessings that God provides. Our pride wants more than God alone - which is idolatry.

Note that, Lucifer and the angels were not created in God's image - they are a lower order of creation (but above the animals). They have a will and to some degree understand God and give glory to Him -- but lack that similitude with God in their nature. They do not correspond spiritually to having a relationship with God, as familiar, with the ability to commune with God. Granted the Fall broke that Family-relationship in man but it is restored in Christ such that we become sons and daughters of God, and inherit all the rights of such. So, Lucifer did not walk with God in the cool breeze of the afternoon - he was a servant to man and God, nothing more (as important as that job is).

Given that Lucifer did deceived Eve, it is possible that apart from Lucifer's clever deception Eve might have continued in obedience to Adam and God, and neither would have sinned. In other words, it was in God's economy to create the perfect angelic being called Lucifer for the purpose of testing Adam. The test did not have to be indefinitely long or severe, simply sufficient to reveal that a perfect man, or woman, rapidly and easily departs from perfect obedience at the mere suggestion to do so. That doesn't make the man or woman less than perfect, as perfection in creation does not demand an impeccable nature.

Lest you think you could do better in the garden, consider that your moral state prior to the fall must be equal to Adam's, no better and no worse - and he fell. So what would prevent you from succumbing? You do not imagine yourself to be more perfect than Adam, do you? Thus, when Adam fell we all fell in Adam, our Federal Head.

Some people demand that Adam and Eve were incapable of sinning because they were perfect. But this is to pour more into the meaning of perfection than God permits. We see in Eve's response to Lucifer her immediate adulterating of God's Law by adding "and you shall not touch it", which God did not say. At the very first challenge she began equivocating. Obviously a perfect being was the one adding to God's word, which is a moral imperfection. Yes, they were perfect in obedience, up to the point they were tested.

Some will say it is unfair of God to make a perfect being that is so easily toppled from its perfect perch? Why? Who are we to reply back to God on how He will order His creation. As a clay pot, currently cracked and damaged, I don't find it my place to criticize the Potter for not making an indestructible pot. His plan is superior to mine - as I know nothing compared to Him. So it is not "unfair" and God has not sinned in doing so.

As an aside, we will never know if the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was sufficient in itself to topple Eve and Adam into rebellion.  Eve had already considered the tree desirable to the eyes and had fruit that could be eaten (see Gen 3:6), so she was half-way there, all Satan did was add the selling point of how it could benefit their wisdom - that is, appeal to ego. I think the Tree had a dual purpose - to bring out Lucifer's sinful desire as well as Adam and Eve's.

I can concede that Adam and Eve's sin may have required a push from Lucifer, but as stated it is likely the push was not for the purpose of toppling Adam only but for also toppling Lucifer himself. We can say absolutely that God intended from the creation of this forbidden Tree and the command not to eat of it, to bring about the Fall of all three: Man, Woman, and Lucifer, because that was the outcome.  God didn't positively act to overrule their individual nature - He simply passively had to effectively dug a pit, severely warn them to stay away, and in short order they each wantonly jumped headlong into it.

So what caused Adam and Eve to sin? In short: The establishment of a verbal Law. That was all that was required to bring out rebellion. Something so simple. God did not ask them to carry a weight - only to abstain from carrying it. Keeping the Law required no effort. They had blessing galore in other trees with edible fruit. They lacked nothing. Yet they perceived themselves diminished and lacking, for they didn't have it all. Eve's questioning imagination was turning before Lucifer arrived, why did God not give us this Tree too? She was set to be exploited by Lucifer.

What then caused Lucifer to sin? I say it was primarily the creation of two beings, beings who challenged his preeminence before God. Perfect beings, as the angels were, does not mean they were immune to rebellion. God's pinnacle of creation was perhaps the only thing that could manifest rebellion in these angels. The one charge they had was to minister as servants to God's creation - the one area of contention was with the created order. What has been Satan's goal? Isn't it to be worshiped?  It seems to me that the test that toppled Lucifer was the mere existence of Adam and Eve. A symbiotic failure existed between them, each brought the other down to ruin.

Once we permit the idea that perfect beings are peccable, that is capable of sin, we can see that God's testing program was clearly aimed at all parties. It was established exactly to bring forth the intended result. Most angels desired to follow God, some desired to be worshiped by man and rule with Lucifer. What was the difference between the two groups? Those that rebelled likely lacked a full understanding about the character of God so as to know the futility of their quest in rebelling. Being of a lower created nature the angels were never redeemable beings (their sin is never paid) nor are they partakers of God's blessings in the likeness of Adam's lineage.  But as God chose to give insight so the angels made their choice. Once the angels sinned (or didn't) the test was complete - those that remained loyal will always remain loyal.

People will always rejoin "how could the first sin have arisen?” meaning, how sin could occur when there was not a thought of it in anyone's mind. My response is that if God had not made a superior created beings in Adam and Eve, angelic rebellion would never have occurred. And likewise, if God had not given a verbal command to Adam and Eve, then they both would have remained sinless. But God didn't do that, did He? His creative work was on full display before the angelic host - and not every one of them appreciated the new situation that was given them. Lucifer considered a path that seemed to provide victory for himself - and with the forbidden Tree came the means to obtaining his goal. So sin was found in Lucifer because the situation changed. Though created perfect, once God altered the created order sin was made manifest in those who God did not provide the wisdom to see the folly of their actions. This is in God's control - to illuminate some angels so as to avoid folly and to hide wisdom from others. God does not have to give equality of wisdom equally to all - and we know from observation that He does not. 

To continue with that thought: Notice how easily God defeated Satan at the cross. Satan should have realized that Christ (the Anointed) was to be the Redeemer and had to die as the perfect sacrifice. The goal of Satan should have been to prevent anything bad from happening so that the Romans and Jews let Jesus continue to live out His life unmolested. Satan lacked knowledge. I think those angels that fell are just as unaware and ignorant of God's Power then as they were at the Fall. The difference between those that fell and those that remain probably rests in God's desire to reveal Himself to some and not to others. Again, this is God's prerogative, to reveal His attributes or hide Himself - to bring about the desired result.

Certainly Lucifer and his clan did not seek out fully the knowledge of God; their eyes were on the creation. And God did not desire to reveal Himself either to the angels who had already begun to devise mischief against God. Again, God is not mandated or required to stop Lucifer from rebelling, or to even warn him of the consequences. Why didn't Lucifer simply carry out the same level of obedience toward God as the rest of the angels that did not rebel? My conjecture (and that is all it is) holds that God's glory and character were on display - Lucifer was in the highest position to see it and be in awe - but like Adam and Eve, he did not want the path that God provided for him to walk. He saw an opportunity to be more than he was created to be. Just like Eve's ego was inflated with having what she believed was being withheld from her by God. We can ask, "why would a perfect being desire a sinful thing?" but the answer is always the same. Moral perfection is temporary - it last only so long as obedience is maintained. Change the circumstances that affect you, introduce some new players into the mix, and out of perfection comes imperfection - meaning sin.   

In conclusion, the sin of each entity involved was their own. God did not force Lucifer into sin. God did not overrule the perfection of any of them. In their perfect moral state they could not sin ... until the situation they found themselves in changed, then rebellion was revealed. Slightly different for man vs. angel but the test for each was both an appeal to ego, to be something beyond God's intended purpose.

Yes, God knew exactly the outcome, and He intended that outcome for His own Glory. Nothing occurring in the Fall can we blame God for - each party Eve, Adam, Lucifer, the angels ... they all stand guilty and condemned for their evil thoughts and actions. We must be careful not to insist that God is somehow wrong for setting up the events that led to the Fall. God is perfectly within His rights to do as He has - and as stated elsewhere this outcome was the most perfect means to obtain the most perfect goal that a most perfect God could perfectly devise.

john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2016, 10:44:23 AM »
Quote from: Maurice
Okay, John...

God did not create evil..


According to who? You?

Isaiah 45:7
   "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Who said that Erik? Who said I create evil? Wasn't it your god if we're going to believe your bible?

You took the phrase out of the first sentence as a rhetorical question for John as if I do not believe God created evil.  I do.  I was curious to know what John's perspective on the subject.  That is all.

I already aware about Isaiah 45:7. God did create evil, but not in a sense that he created wickedness.   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2016, 10:46:15 AM »
Quote from: John
In their perfect moral state they could not sin ... until the situation they found themselves in changed, then rebellion was revealed.

Interesting. I have not thought about that. I will study into that more.  Thanks, John.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Kenneth White

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering?
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2016, 05:57:10 AM »
Romans 5:3,4 gives us a good answer.
God who gives the suffering will deliver the glory.
andreas.

While I think this is one of the most difficult questions for Christians to answer, I also agree with Andreas and John. God allows wickedness and suffering that we might be schooled in this current trial and tribulation how this world really is. And a close examination of the creation account found in Genesis 1-3 will give us the clues as to the origin of human wickedness and suffering. Even as we look at the world today we see the true fallen nature of mankind, and how despite our undeserving nature, God loved us so much that he would choose to have mercy upon those he called. By his spirit, rather than strike out at God as the perpetrator of all the evil as the wicked often do, we are so grateful for patience through his grace. Having us see the world in all its desperately wicked essence, builds the character of the church, and his love for us despite our not meriting it works to endurance in his divine plan. I believe that ultimately, we recognize through all this that we have us look to him for our strength, patience and salvation, and not ourselves. In his love for us, we experience love for him and experience patience and hope through the holy spirit.

 Romans 5:3-5
  "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;  And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

Clearly suffering was brought into the world as a result of sin. Even today, whether someone is the cause of his own suffering or others are the cause of it, clearly it comes down to Adam or mankind. Though suffering is painful, God uses this tribulation as trial, to reveal the patience of the saints and to use suffering to produce good from it. Whether of salvation or mankind in general. No one knows God's divine plan but God, but we do know that there is a reason for everything.

 Genesis 18:25b
  "that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
 
God is righteous and he will do what is righteous. Questioning him on sin and suffering in the world is a sign of rebellion, not of concern for the suffering or evil. In fact we already know, those blaming God for these things are those most wicked and unrighteous to begin with.

 Romans 9:20
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

When the unrighteous as why did God create man that he might fall into sin or why did God create a world that could fall, he's basically asking God the same question. Why have you made us this way. Again, rebellion and not a sincere quest for truth. Christ says, seek and you will find. Anyone truly seeking truth will find it. The rest seek vitriol, to condemn and to find retribution for their lot in life. We can but assure those who ask that while there’s suffering and evil in this world, there’s hope through Christ. The question is, do they want it?
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Maurice

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2016, 07:36:18 AM »

Do you mind if I print this out and give it to my friend?



Beware copyright infringement of personal works as Christians usually put this notice on their works and don't like you to reproduce or distribute their writings without being paid in some way. Another of their hypocritical stances.

Puritan Heart

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Re: Why is there evil and suffering?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2016, 10:55:21 AM »

Do you mind if I print this out and give it to my friend?



Beware copyright infringement of personal works as Christians usually put this notice on their works and don't like you to reproduce or distribute their writings without being paid in some way. Another of their hypocritical stances.

Oh Maurice.......

You have no idea how reading your reply to Margaret, 'cut deep into my heart, as if with a blunt knife....'  :-[

I feel such sorrow when I read the sardonic reply's and responses in some of these threads that I grieve.......

Well did Jesus say...Matthew 18 v 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

For some of us, 'growing up spiritually' on the pages of this forum has been a tough enough exercise without comments the likes of this.... and others the likes thereof.

James 4 v 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Let us remember, the above epistle was written to Believers !!!!

Margaret, I am 100% certain, that you may indeed print and offer the information should you so deem fit, as long as out of courtesy to the 'writer thereof' you do not edit or change it in any way.

These are public pages, with strict rules to which we must adhere, however, as I understand the rules, all information herein is for public consumption.  How well society would thrive if more would comply with much of the 'spiritual food' offered on the MR site in it's entirety.

Be Blessed Margaret, and keep questioning!! Keep at it... stay in The Word!!  God is Faithful, and a hungry heart, He Will Satisfy!!

Alexandra
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

laurenp

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering?
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2016, 09:48:29 PM »
Romans 5:3,4 gives us a good answer.
God who gives the suffering will deliver the glory.


While I think this is one of the most difficult questions for Christians to answer, I also agree with Andreas and John. God allows wickedness and suffering that we might be schooled in this current trial and tribulation how this world really is. And a close examination of the creation account found in Genesis 1-3 will give us the clues as to the origin of human wickedness and suffering. Even as we look at the world today we see the true fallen nature of mankind, and how despite our undeserving nature, God loved us so much that he would choose to have mercy upon those he called. By his spirit, rather than strike out at God as the perpetrator of all the evil as the wicked often do, we are so grateful for patience through his grace. Having us see the world in all its desperately wicked essence, builds the character of the church, and his love for us despite our not meriting it works to endurance in his divine plan. I believe that ultimately, we recognize through all this that we have us look to him for our strength, patience and salvation, and not ourselves. In his love for us, we experience love for him and experience patience and hope through the holy spirit.

 Romans 5:3-5
  "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;  And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

Clearly suffering was brought into the world as a result of sin. Even today, whether someone is the cause of his own suffering or others are the cause of it, clearly it comes down to Adam or mankind. Though suffering is painful, God uses this tribulation as trial, to reveal the patience of the saints and to use suffering to produce good from it. Whether of salvation or mankind in general. No one knows God's divine plan but God, but we do know that there is a reason for everything.

 Genesis 18:25b
  "that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
 
God is righteous and he will do what is righteous. Questioning him on sin and suffering in the world is a sign of rebellion, not of concern for the suffering or evil. In fact we already know, those blaming God for these things are those most wicked and unrighteous to begin with.

 Romans 9:20
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

When the unrighteous as why did God create man that he might fall into sin or why did God create a world that could fall, he's basically asking God the same question. Why have you made us this way. Again, rebellion and not a sincere quest for truth. Christ says, seek and you will find. Anyone truly seeking truth will find it. The rest seek vitriol, to condemn and to find retribution for their lot in life. We can but assure those who ask that while there’s suffering and evil in this world, there’s hope through Christ. The question is, do they want it?


The question is, do they want it?

THEE question indeed!!!

Sojourner

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Re: Why Does God Allow Evil and why is there Suffering?
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2016, 12:14:05 AM »
We could say that God allows evil and suffering for a number of reasons. For one thing, is it not to remind us that the world is broken and groans for redemption, as God stated in Romans 8:20-23? For another, which has already be said, it is to keep us dependent upon Him (Hebrews. 12:6-7) and to show us our mortality, revealing all glory to God in being our strength in times of despair, tribulation and trial.

Melanie

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Re: Why Does God Allow Evil and why is there Suffering?
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2016, 07:27:04 AM »
Has anyone ever stopped to think what the world would be like if no one ever died? It would have become unlivable centuries ago. It would make Calcutta look like a resort. God knows what he is doing, and People live out their lives and then die so that there is room for others. There are only enough resources for so many people and if no one died, there would be no earth left.

Trevor

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Re: Why Does God Allow Evil and why is there Suffering?
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2018, 07:35:37 AM »
 )Goodpoint( It's a harmony, a synergy, the interaction between God and man, life and death, to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of the individuals living and dying.
A Mind For Truth
Dr. C. Trevor Bavinck
New York, NY

 


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