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Author Topic: Why Does God Allow Suffering  (Read 14089 times)

Susan

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2013, 05:50:13 AM »
In a related story, after this devastating tornado in Oklahoma killed many children at an elementary school, Reformed minister and author John Piper tweeted this:

"Job 1:19 -And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."

Some time later he tweeted again:

"Job 1:20 - Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshipedĒ Job. 1:20.

Do you think his tweet was insensitive? Because it created such an uproar that Piper issued an apology. I guess that he thought he was being comforting, I don't know, but he was wrong. He received a great backlash and scathing rebukes, even from Christians. The reason is that people associated his tweet with Godís judgment of the Oklahoma victims. Was it God's judgment? Was that what he was saying? Who can get into Piper's head to really know.

John

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2013, 10:40:02 AM »
Quote
Was it God's judgment?

We know that the earth was cursed by God due to Adam's rebellion (Gen 3:17) The effect of the curse is that the earth would no longer by in harmony with man but work against him, bringing pain, sorrow and hardship. Henceforth it would be in rebellion against man in like manner that man was in rebellion to God.

Now, that is the condition of the earth - it is under God's judgment.

So, should God counter the brambles and evil things that happen on the earth so as to nullify His judgment? Should only brambles and thorns grow in the fields of the wicked but not in the fields of the righteous? The answer has to be that God controls the exact outcome of all this - but God will not remove the effects of His curse upon the earth, until it is remade anew.

That is, a snowstorm, flooding, a whirlwind, hail, thunderstorms, hurricanes - you name it, it is all under the guidance of God and performs His will according to His unchangeable plan for the earth.

Job 37:11-13
(11)  Yea, He loads the cloud with moisture; He scatters His lightning cloud;
(12)  and it is turned around by His guidance, so that they may do whatever He commands them on the face of the world of the earth.
(13)  Whether as a whip, or for His land, or for mercy, He finds it.


God can bring a gentle rain or a flood, a warm sun or a drought, a light breeze or a whirlwind and tempest.  We are not going to sit in judgment of God and say "what doest thou". God has the right to do with His creation as He pleases, and to each person to kill or make alive. If a hundred tornado were ordained by God to kill the entirety of mankind we still could still not answer back to God.

Job 9:11-14
(11)  Behold! He goes by me, and I do not see Him; He passes on also, but I do not perceive Him.
(12)  Behold, He takes away; who can turn Him back? Who will say to Him, What are You doing?
(13)  God will not withdraw His anger; the helpers of pride stoop under Him.
(14) How much less shall I answer Him, and choose my arguments with Him?


In fact, rather than wonder what right God has to kill children and bring harm to mankind, all the while forgetting that it is our sin (in Adam) that brought this state of affairs upon ourselves, we should be praising God, for we should realize that His judgments are true and righteous. The tornado that strikes one home and leaves another untouched is the stark reality of God's judgment upon the earth - not based on whether we are good or bad, for we are all worthy of death; but because of the unsearchable working of the plan of God.

Psa 148:7-8
(7)  Praise ye Jehovah from the earth, Dragons and all deeps,
(8.)  Fire and hail, snow and vapour, Whirlwind doing His word;


The world asks "how can a good God do anything to hurt or kill", all the while being completely unaware that at this earth's last day they will to a child stand before the selfsame God and be judged and cast into outer darkness. If anything, the curse on the earth should cause fear within the unregenerate that a greater judgment awaits the wicked. It should be a stark reminder. But do they repent? Do they fear? Or do they mock God and curse Him.

As Christians we should understand that God's purpose is done in all things - even evil things that kill, maim, and destroy. We cannot excuse God from these things - He is in charge of all of it. But we cannot excuse ourselves and claim innocence; we each brought upon ourselves, and the earth, the curse that God enforces today. We were each there with Adam - no better than he, and equally in rebellion with our federal head. We are not happy if children die. We are not pleased when the curse brings death to anyone - for we were created perfect and upright, with endless days before us, and we threw it all away because of pride. Not just Adam - not some long ago past event - we individually did it with him. You were there! And you must suffer and toil and die because of it. When we see the destruction and horrors that happen daily in this world we should remember that we each are the cause of it. But still God brings good out of the very evil we created - that gives glory to Him for His righteousness sake and should be a cause of shame and humility for us.

We as Christians should see the cause and effect nature of rebellion and be more eager to give that testimony to the world that is perishing. On the day of God's wrath, that same rebellion will bring a disaster greater than any hurricane or tornado can do. These are but little reminders of our true situation before God. The world does not like to be reminded that God rules over men - if they are as powerless before an EF5 whirlwind, how will they contend with the Most High God?

john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

LXX

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2013, 02:27:09 PM »
Emily, there is a great book that I ave read a few times by CS Lewis called "The Problem of Pain". I suggest you read this.
Lewis is much better in explaining it than a lot of people. Hope it helps.

clark thompson

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 08:12:38 AM »
Most childeren have not reached an age of understanding of the truth so, they will be with the Lord when they die due to them being unable to make this decsion so, if the Lord taking the childeren to Him will when people souls it is just.
the best form of worship is to be in the will of God

Reformer

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 03:01:51 PM »
Most childeren have not reached an age of understanding of the truth so, they will be with the Lord when they die due to them being unable to make this decsion so, if the Lord taking the childeren to Him will when people souls it is just.

There is absolutely no biblical justification for an age of accountability, or what you just said. Nowhere does God claim that understanding is a prerequisite before there can be judgment. I don't know where Christians get these ideas, but I do know they are not from God's word. They are a personal opinion at best, without leaning upon the word of God to inform.

 Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.


Emily

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2013, 05:08:00 AM »
Death is not Dying
By Rachel Barkey
1972 - 2009

Nikki

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2013, 08:19:31 AM »
 )GoodPopst( Emily,
  That was one of the best messages I've ever heard. I think she was a friend of Pastor Brian Mcphall also. That's what you call faith. The courage of Christ to face death not as dying, but to live. A saint that understands God has a purpose in everything. Wonderful message well worth listening to.
 &TY

Oneil

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2013, 05:38:42 AM »
  )ditto(  Awesome Emily! Very Moving.

Cecil

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2013, 03:35:21 PM »
If God does not cause suffering, why does he allow it? Because universal issues, moral ones, raised a long time ago still need to be settled. Let us look at just one of them.
At the beginning of human history, Adam and Eve sided with Satan. They rejected Godís rule and chose self-rule, which was really rule by the Devil.óGenesis 3:1-6; Revelation 12:9.
Godís sense of justice required that time be allowed for evidence to accumulate. What is the inescapable conclusion? Human rule under Satanís influence leads only to suffering. Really, in the long run, Godís allowance of time has been for manís benefit. How so? Those who study the evidence and believe it have the opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to be ruled by God. Those who learn of Godís standards and live by them have the prospect of living forever.óJohn 17:3; 1 John 2:17.
True, for now, Satan has the world in his evil grip. But not for much longer. Soon God will use his Son to ďbreak up the works of the Devil.Ē (1 John 3:8 ) Under Godís direction, Jesus will mend broken hearts and restore shattered lives. He will resurrect back to life on earth billions of humans who have suffered and died over the centuries.óJohn 11:25.
The resurrection of Jesus is an example of Godís victory over the works of the Devilóa token of what is to come for humans who choose Godís rule. (Acts 17:31) The Bible directs our thoughts to that time to come with these comforting words: ďGod himself will be with [mankind]. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.ĒóRevelation 21:3, 4.

Maurice

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2014, 09:18:26 AM »
How was that a good message? A Woman talking about her impending death and her suffering is a good message? How?

Tony Warren

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2014, 12:25:32 PM »
>>>
How was that a good message? A Woman talking about her impending death  and her suffering is a good message? How?
<<<

Yes, that was a good message.

"How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -WiseManSay

Acts 7:59-60
  • "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
  • And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep."

Some people live well, and some people die well.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Margaret

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2016, 04:02:30 AM »
I was also witnessing to a girl and she put forth to me a question which I couldn't answer adequately. The question was, if there is a God, why does he allow evil and suffering? I answered as best I could but I admit I didn't really have a good answer. Can anyone here help me with a good simple answer of why God allows evil and suffering in the world. Thanks so much.

John

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2016, 06:22:36 AM »
Quote
The question was, if there is a God, why does he allow evil and suffering?

First, the idea of a self-created universe where matter pops into existence and then directs itself into increasing complexity over time, growing greater information/molecular systems via random chaos, to finally conclude this self-improvement with sentient moral beings, which would be the case if there was no God, defies logic and violates all operative physical laws. There must be a God and that God must be the Creator. Any other explanation is to dabble in insanity.

But to your question: why allow evil?  The answer could be framed as a question in reply: Why can't God permit evil to exist? Is there something inherently suspect in God's morality if He has chosen not to prevent wicked people from acting wickedly?

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Yes, I understand the import of the original question is to stake the claim: since God is good and cannot create evil and since evil exists, then God does not exist or God is evil. Hence, Christianity is a lie.

But, God created everything good ... He did not create evil. The entire creation was in obedience to God originally - until man's heart transgressed God's Law. Since God permitted this rebellion and since Adam and Eve committed this evil we can conclude that it was God's intention to allow the testing of Adam and Eve (by means of Lucifer) and it was His intention that the test be sufficient to disclose sin in Adam and Lucifer.

If God intended to do things differently, then He would have, would He not? The Fall was not a surprise to God. Obviously, the rebellion of His creation and the recovery of His creation in His Son was a better resultant than any other possible moral solution and the one that God chose. If it wasn't the most perfect means, then a perfect God would have done something more perfect -- which we can conclude, whether we like it or not, God's permission to allow sin in the world was the most perfect way.

The evil that we see in the world is not God's doing, it is man's. God is not morally obligated to stop men from sinning (though He does to a degree, else we would kill ourselves off in short order). If God intended to avoid the results of sin: death and disease, He could have eternally prevented Adam and Eve from ever disobeying thus no evil; or simply never issued any decree at all that required obedience, where there is no Law there is no transgression of the Law, isn't that right?

Since God cannot transgress His own Law, God cannot sin or have a nature that is evil. God by definition can only do good and be good. Since God only does good and is in His nature perfectly good He is by definition wise. The wisdom of God is greater (by far) than the wisdom of man.

1Co_3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

The wisdom of man says, "God cannot be good to allow suffering and evil to exist". God does not explain His actions to man, as if He must justify Himself before the mind of wicked people. Instead God says to man:

Job 40:1-4  Moreover Yahweh answered Job,  (2)  "Shall he who argues contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it."  (3)  Then Job answered Yahweh,  (4)  "Behold, I am of small account. What shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth.

In other words, God is in charge and does all things perfectly. All the suffering and death this world has experienced was the result of individual people - each one of us. It is the nature of evil people to blame God, but such perverse twisted logic is devoid of meaning. With God we can say:

Job 38:1-2  Then Yahweh answered Job out of the whirlwind,  (2)  "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

There is no knowledge or reasoning in man's assertions against God. Man is like an unreasoning beast before God.

Therefore, the answer to the questioner wondering if God can be trusted is simple:

Psa 147:5  Great is our Lord, and mighty in power. His understanding is infinite.

and

Rev 15:3-4 "...Great and marvelous are your works, Lord God, the Almighty! Righteous and true are your ways, you King of the nations.  (4)  Who wouldn't fear you, Lord, and glorify your name? For you only are holy. For all the nations will come and worship before you. For your righteous acts have been revealed."

The regenerate can praise the holiness and perfection of God, and we know that the source of evil is entirely the fault of man. We even know that God's eternal plan included man's rebellion. But we also know that there was no other way to bring about the prefect end that God planned - the salvation of a people for Himself.

Wicked men can always devise or imagine another way ... where evil would hypothetically not exist, but we must remind ourselves that we are in no position to argue morality with God, for our ideas are foolishness at best.

Dan 4:35  ... and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

And after all the words are spoken and the arguments thrown back and forth, in the end those made righteous in Christ, having the Spirit and mind of Christ, agree that the creator of the world will indeed do right. The wicked will receive their due recompense and God will make a people for Himself - all the scales of justice will balance:

Gen 18:25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Margaret

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2016, 09:20:37 AM »

Thank you so much John, that was very enlightening and well stated. Do you mind if I print this out and give it to my friend?

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why Does God Allow Suffering
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2016, 09:08:07 PM »
Quote from: John
Since God permitted this rebellion and since Adam and Eve committed this evil we can conclude that it was God's intention to allow the testing of Adam and Eve (by means of Lucifer) and it was His intention that the test be sufficient to disclose sin in Adam and Lucifer.

Okay, John...

God did not create evil...then where did Lucifer comes from? Where was he before the fall of man? When and how did he become "evil" after God created him (perfectly)? And his role for the original sin of Adam and Eve?

Yes, I have heard some opinions, but I am curious what you think about Lucifer based on comment you made to Margaret.

Thanks.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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