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Author Topic: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?  (Read 7999 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2012, 03:13:54 PM »
Joe,

I think you misunderstood Scripture. God has clearly declared that He has dealth to EVERY MAN (Elect) the measure of faith. God did say:

1st Corinthians 12:28-31
  • "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
  • Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
  • Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
  • But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
Romans 12:4-8
  • "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
  • So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
  • Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
  • Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
  • Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness."
All Elects can be teacher, minister, prophesy, healing, tongues, etc, but to some of them, God has dealt a greater measure to be teacher, to another God has dealt the greater measure to be Minister, to another to be social, to another to be better at understanding interpretations, etc. That's a Biblical fact. God hasn't given every Elect the same measure of gifts as if they all are suppose to have "GIFT" of evangelists.

For example, haven't you ever heard anyone say to someone who is good at caring for children than, "they have a gift?" Well, LIKEWISE, with those who have a "talent" or "office" or "gift" of the gospel. It is a gift of the Spirit. It does not mean that everyone CAN'T share gospel with anyone as "evangelists", "teacher", "carer", "prophesy", "interpretation", "tongues" etc. but there are some of these who do have GIFT of being "evangelists" per God's Will.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Joe Johnson

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2012, 03:50:26 PM »
Ok, I got that scripture wrong I admit. But that doesn't prove that evangelism is useless because God has already chosen who is saved.  You will have to admit that, or else there's no point in logic. If we are told some are evangelists, that means preaching the gospel for a reason, not preaching for no reason because the person is already saved from the foundation of the world.


Joe Johnson

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2012, 03:58:41 PM »

How stupid is that? Well, let's see.

1Co_1:25  For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

john


John,
  That doesn't prove that logic is worthless or unbiblical. Does it? I agree with that verse also, as you must know. But that doesn't make preaching so that someone might be saved, who the reformed say God has already predestinated to be saved regardless, is logical. So that verse is out of context of what I was saying.

For example, if I wanted to give someone $5.00 for a movie, and someone showed where someone else had already prepared $5.00 for that person for that same movie,  how is my  $5.00 to buy entrance worthwhile? My  $5.00 made absolutely no difference whatsoever. That's the lack of logic I'm referring to.






Joe Johnson

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2012, 04:04:51 PM »

As I said previously I apologise for my mistake. I have modified my initial post to what I would normally have put, which is "a load of rubbish"

 Why can't you just say I disagree with you? Or I don't think that opinion has any merit?  You ever hear me say your opinions are a load of rubbish? A Crock? A Pile of English pudding? Why can't Christians be civil and disagree without being disagreeable?

I still think telling someone to preach and try to convince someone to be saved, who you have no chance of convincing because it's out of both your hands and the person hearing your preaching,  is futile.  Demonstrate logically how it is not.



Joe Johnson

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2012, 04:13:13 PM »
Joe,

In your quote:  ''The only doctrine that makes sense is free will.'' you in one very foul swoop, utterly negate God's Divine Sovereignity.

Cogito!

Alexandra

How do you figure that Alexandra? Do you not know that most of those who believe in free will also believe in the Sovereignty of God? By his sovereignty, he gave man free will.


JohnDunningUK

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2012, 05:46:37 PM »
Why can't you just say I disagree with you? Or I don't think that opinion has any merit?  You ever hear me say your opinions are a load of rubbish? A Crock? A Pile of English pudding? Why can't Christians be civil and disagree without being disagreeable?

I still think telling someone to preach and try to convince someone to be saved, who you have no chance of convincing because it's out of both your hands and the person hearing your preaching,  is futile.  Demonstrate logically how it is not.

Okay Joe, if the tone of my remark has offended you, which it obviously has, I truly apologise. Not only that I completely repent of my remark and retract from my statement that your remark was a load of rubbish. Looking back I think I replied in the tone I did in a way that reflected the tone in your preceding comment about the reformed getting it wrong "as usual". Regardless of that however, it was no justification for my own tone, and for that I apologise.

As far as you comments though, especially of preaching being futile if God has already chosen who the elect are, I state categorically that you are wrong, for the Scripture says so. I understand that we are called to excercise our will to trust in Christ for salvation, and to follow Him obediently etc., but we excercise a will that God has worked upon by the power of the Spirit in order that we have that faith to excercise. In other words, we are only able to hear and believe the Gospel, placing our trust in Christ for our eternal salvation, when God has foreordained it to be so according to His will. Verses such as the following show this to be the truth:

65  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65 (KJV)


It is clear in the same passage of Scripture that there is a direct relationship between the choosing and giving of the Father to the Son, to those who will hear and believe the Gospel unto salvation. And it is the choosing and giving of the Father to the Son that precedes the hearing and believing of the saved.

38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:38-40 (KJV)


In this same passage, when asked what should we do to do the works of God, Jesus answered:

28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:28-29 (KJV)


Therefore to believe upon Christ for salvation is clearly considered by God to be a work, and yet we know from other places that we shall never be justified by the works of our flesh, but by the faith and works of Christ on our behalf.

16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16 (KJV)


This is why we consider saving faith to be a gift of God's grace, because were it of us in some way apart from Him, then we would be saved by works, because to believe upon Christ for salvation is a work, as I've already pointed out.

7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:7-9 (KJV)


And to whom has God given this gift of saving faith? Is it to one and all, or is it to only some? You may well say as Arminians do that He gives salvation to those who believe, but as I've pointed out already, to believe is a work that merits salvation, and if that is from us then we are saved on our own merit, not by grace alone. No, the gift of saving faith is given according to the sovereign will of God, to those He has chosen to justify, sanctify, and glorify for His own glory.

28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)


I understand the doctrine of election and predestination offends us, but to deny its truth is to deny the Word of God itself. But even if the truth suggests that no matter how hard we may try to influence the outcome, only those chosen will hear and believe the Gospel; how does that in itself make the preaching of the Gospel futile? How can it be futile to be obedient to the command of our Lord and Saviour, simply because we would prefer things to be worked out in a different way? Wasn't it Jesus Himself who commanded us to preach the Gospel to all, then how can it possibly be futile?

The point is we do not know who are the elect and who are not. Let's face it, we don't know our own heart much of the time, so how on earth can we know the inner thoughts and motives of another? No, we are simply called to a life of repentance and faith, both of which are gifts of God's grace to the believer, and to follow where He leads by the power of His Holy Spirit.

The doctrine of grace we see taught in the reformed faith should not be something we need to preach to the unbeliever, for if we do then it does come across as though we are better than they. But rather to know the truth of election and predestination is a comfort to those who believe. We know that we believe in Christ, even though at times we cannot understand why this is so. But also we know how our hearts can deceive us with ease, so our comfort does not rest upon the fact that we have somehow chosen to believe in Christ for salvation, rather that He has chosen us according to His own will. What greater comfort to a Christian, that regardless of how weak and inable to last the course, it is God alone who has begun the work, and it is God alone who will bring it to completion for the glory of His Son. This is why the doctrine of predestination is true, and if we embrace it as the truth rather than an offense to our reason, then it becomes a pillar of strength to us as believers.
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Curtis

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2012, 01:09:02 PM »
Thank you for all the replies. There seems to be a mixture of points of views on if it is for everyone. I have a follow-up question. Is it the duty of everyone to evangelize, or is that a gift for some and not others? I'm conflicted on this point.

Blessings to you,
 Curtis

John

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 10:54:45 PM »
Quote
But that doesn't make preaching so that someone might be saved, who the reformed say God has already predestinated to be saved regardless, is logical. So that verse is out of context of what I was saying.


Joe, the Reformed say that God has predestined the elect to salvation from before the foundation of the world because God says He has predestined the elect to be saved from before the foundation of the world. The verse (1Cor 1:25) does apply because what you call "stupid" or now "illogical" is the wisdom of man, your wisdom, and that wisdom compared to God's wisdom is really utter foolishness. 

Quote
For example, if I wanted to give someone $5.00 for a movie, and someone showed where someone else had already prepared $5.00 for that person for that same movie,  how is my $5.00 to buy entrance worthwhile?

I don't think you understand what salvation is or where the power lies. You seem to think there is some power to save within preaching or within the preacher. The power comes from God not from the person preaching. You should know that.

So, if a person is preaching to an audience and there is one elect person present and at some point either then (or earlier) God had regenerated this person's spirit, then the message will be received, by the power of God. The preacher is nothing. It is the plain fact that God has given this person "ears to hear" and "eyes to see" first by regeneration and second by permitting understanding.

If God were, as you say, to pay for a movie and you were also to pay - then we'd have the preacher trying to save what only God has power to save, which is ridiculous. Yes, Arminians have distorted the gospel and made the preaching the critical element, that if done wrong, may cause the eternal loss of a potential salvation moment. They also have distorted the true power of salvation and made it incumbent on the hearer to respond by their own power. If the message is wrong or the hearer is supposedly too defiant - all is lost and off to hell he goes. This is not the gospel of the Bible. It is a fantasy made up by wicked people who want nothing to do with the God of the Bible. These people are selling an idol, a false god designed after the minds of men, made in their own image. That is why God says the designs of men - their attempts to define what God must do to save someone is foolishness! The strength of men is weaker than the weakness of God.

And, though you are apparently not equipped to understand or receive this - God's salvation as I and others have described to you is preeminently logical. As God is preeminently logical and the source of all logic. And we should add, though it need not be said but I will anyway: The false salvation of Arminianism which you are selling is utterly illogical and truly a stupid position for anyone to hold.



Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Joe Johnson

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2012, 12:41:45 AM »
Joe, the Reformed say that God has predestined the elect to salvation from before the foundation of the world because God says He has predestined the elect to be saved from before the foundation of the world.

Circular reasoning. Like saying 1 comes before 2 because 1 comes before 2. You haven't said anything. God foreknew before time began, and so predestinated those he foreknew. We all accept that.


Quote
Quote
For example, if I wanted to give someone $5.00 for a movie, and someone showed where someone else had already prepared $5.00 for that person for that same movie,  how is my $5.00 to buy entrance worthwhile?

I don't think you understand what salvation is or where the power lies.

Salvation is God saving us and obviously the power is with God. So again, you are saying things that aren't true, making claims about me that aren't true and creating straw men in claiming I don't know the power is with God.


Quote
So, if a person is preaching to an audience and there is one elect person present and at some point either then (or earlier) God had regenerated this person's spirit, then the message will be received, by the power of God. The preacher is nothing.

I disagree. If the preacher was nothing, God wouldn't call for us to be preachers. You are making a  personal and unbiblical opinion that a Preacher is nothing. The Apostle Paul was a preacher, and he was far from nothing.  So many things you've said are not true.


Quote
And, though you are apparently not equipped to understand or receive this - God's salvation as I and others have described to you is preeminently logical.

Just full of insults aren't you? But that doesn't phase me. I'm equipped enough to understand God's salvation plan. It's your plan I don't understand nor read in scripture. That's the illogical one, not God's.

Curtis

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2012, 09:00:16 AM »
 Is it the duty of everyone to evangelize, or is that a gift for some and not others?  Or why is evangelism considered a gift?

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 Curtis

Tony Warren

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2012, 04:59:06 AM »
>>>
Is it the duty of everyone to evangelize, or is that a gift for some and not others?  Or why is evangelism considered a gift?
<<<

Ephesians 4:11
  • "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"

It is true, we all have been given our special gifts or talents. And yet it is the duty of everyone to be an evangelist. It is the duty of everyone to be a prophet. It is the duty of everyone to be a teacher, a pastor or shepherd, a apostle (ambassador) for Christ. That doesn't negate God giving some the gift wherein they excel in a special way in one of these areas.

For example, if you are not a prophet of God, then you are not a Christian. If you declare that Christ is coming again, you are a prophet. We're all prophets or mouthpieces of God going forth declaring God's word. If you are not an evangelist, you are neglecting the great commission. If you declare that people must be born again, you are a evangelist.  If you declare that water baptism symbolizes the spiritual ablution in being washed clean of our sins, you are a teacher. If you are not a teacher, you didn't train your children in the way they should go, nor have you fed the sheep. We're all messengers of God if God dwells within us.

Romans 12:3-4
  • "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
  • For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:"

All of the body have the same powers in Christ. But some are given special ability to excel in one of these areas, and that is called a gift. People with special gifts may have a special office, such as Pastor. Yet if you read, "thus saith the Lord," you are a Apostle/Ambassador of the Lord. That doesn't mean there isn't an administration or office of Apostle, Teacher, Pastor, Prophet or Evangelist. Was not the Apostle Paul all of these? So clearly, one doesn't negate the other, nor mean you cannot have the other.

To answer your question, Yes! It is the duty of everyone to evangelize, and the gift of being an evangelist is having a special ability in that area bestowed upon some by God.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Shirley

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2012, 05:30:47 AM »

I just found out some eye opening information today while researching the history of evangelism. Are you aware that Christians represented 20 percent of the Muslim population at the start of the 20th century. And today they are less than 2 percent? What does that say? What does that mean? Has the Church stopped evangelizing while Islam has tripled its efforts? Whenever I talk about evangelism, Christians just shrug like "why am I worried about that."  All they want to do is talk about how bad the country has become, liberals and how Israel needs our help. I feel like I'm not even part of them anymore, because we don't believe the same things are important. Anyone else feel like an outsider?

Rose

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2012, 07:52:08 AM »
Anyone else feel like an outsider?

No, I think you're just overly worried about something that takes care of itself. That, and the fact that you read about the Church being lax all the time, when it's not necessarily so. I'm don't think the Church is as bad as some make it out to be. There are lots of good Christian authors, theologians and preachers out there. many doing evangelical work. Maybe you just need to take a break from the Doom-Sayers and things might be put in perspective. The sky just might not be falling.

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Tra Millwood

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2012, 10:58:15 AM »
No, I think you're just overly worried about something that takes care of itself.

Evangelism takes care of itself? That's news to me.


Quote
That, and the fact that you read about the Church being lax all the time, when it's not necessarily so.

If you think the Church in general is not lax and is faithfully doing God's will and spreading his message, that's your privilege. But I look for evidence rather than just proof by assertion. And when I examine the Churches, almost unanimously they don't evangelize, don't believe in God's sovereignty (like your Church doesn't) and only gives lip service to biblical authority. You may not think the Church is as bad as some make it out to be, but a tree is known by its fruits.

Quote
There are lots of good Christian authors, theologians and preachers out there. many doing evangelical work.

Name them! Or is that your little secret? There are a lot of secret faithful authors and theologians going around lately. My guess is, they aren't faithful at all. As there are "very few" Christian authors, theologians and preachers out there that are. That follow the Bible. That hold to the doctrines of Christ and his apostles.

Personally, I think Shirley is closer to the mark than you are. Faithful evangelism, as opposed to TV evangelicals, is a lost art.

George

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Re: How Important is Sharing the Gospel and being an Evangelist?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2012, 02:40:27 PM »
It's not important at all to Reformed Christians, because in their doctrines, people are not saved by evangelism, they are Predestinated and will be saved regardless of if someone evangelizes.


 


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