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Author Topic: What is Eschatology and is it Important?  (Read 13962 times)

Pamela

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 11:34:02 AM »
Dsouzaanthony,

Quote
If a church doesn't have eschatology right, they how would they preach:

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Amen!  That is why I don't want to go to a Dispensationalist church!  My church that I am ...."coming out of"....is very comfortable in their pews, because they think that they are going to be raptured soon!  So why come out?

If their views are mixed up on who "Israel" is, then the whole bible has a crooked view.  If they are waiting for a kingdom that is "to come", and their God is still not "reigning", then wouldn't all their preaching be erroneous?

Pam

Sandy

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 03:35:51 PM »
Hello Pamela,

I've been following this topic which interest, and have been hesitant to contribute.  But this statement leaves me bewildered.

If their views are mixed up on who "Israel" is, then the whole bible has a crooked view.  If they are waiting for a kingdom that is "to come", and their God is still not "reigning", then wouldn't all their preaching be futile?

Where does that leave the many including myself who became saved in a free will dispensational church?  I became saved because even though they were very confused about eschatology, they preached the gospel of salvation, the gospel of hope, the gospel of repentance and remission. 

Just before Christ ascended into heaven He told His disciples  "Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, and ye are witnesses of these things."  Lk. 24:46-48

Mk 16:15 says "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

And then in Matthew we are told not only that we are to teach all nations, but that we are to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

This voice heard from heaven, telling us to come out of her my people, how is it heard?  Is it audible, is it spiritual, is it heard through the word?   

Blessings,
Sandy   


Pamela

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 04:30:50 PM »
Hello Pamela,

I've been following this topic which interest, and have been hesitant to contribute.  But this statement leaves me bewildered.

If their views are mixed up on who "Israel" is, then the whole bible has a crooked view.  If they are waiting for a kingdom that is "to come", and their God is still not "reigning", then wouldn't all their preaching be futile?

Where does that leave the many including myself who became saved in a free will dispensational church?  I became saved because even though they were very confused about eschatology, they preached the gospel of salvation, the gospel of hope, the gospel of repentance and remission. 

Just before Christ ascended into heaven He told His disciples  "Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, and ye are witnesses of these things."  Lk. 24:46-48

Mk 16:15 says "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

And then in Matthew we are told not only that we are to teach all nations, but that we are to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

This voice heard from heaven, telling us to come out of her my people, how is it heard?  Is it audible, is it spiritual, is it heard through the word?   

Blessings,
Sandy   




Hello Sandy,

I already sent this post earlier, but am revising it a little (understatement).  So hope no one is confused.

Sandy, I know that the "gospel" is being preached in the arminian churches, although I think the way they are preaching it is incorrect.  They say "all I had to do" ect..ect... making it a "works" doctrine.  Can they be saved by that?  Only God knows.   I guess it would depend on if that person believed that they were being saved because of what they did, or truly believed what God did.   In my post to you, earlier, that I am now revising, I said that I was saved in one of those same churches.  Then when I really thought about it, I realized that I was not even in a church when I got saved.  I joined the church about a week later.  It was the word of God that saved me.  Funny thing.  My pastor asked me in "what church" did I get saved?  I told him I was not in a church, but at home, reading my bible, alone.  He was almost disappointed with that answer.  I was quite surprised. 

The word I wanted to use is "incorrect or erroneous" instead of futile.  Sorry about that.  What about the people that got saved in those churches? Honestly, I don't know.  Some have said that by these false gospels one cannot be saved.  Others say that they were saved despite what was preached.  Only God knows who are His.  I know one thing though, is that once we know the truth, we should not continue in error.  Amen?


This voice from heaven ....truthfully I am not sure Sandy.  I believe it will be by our searching scriptures, but even so, ...a true child of God will be taken out of the church one way or another.  Maybe by the Holy Spirit convicting them?   And you?  What do YOU think?

Pam

dsouzaanthony

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 12:17:48 AM »
By the way, if you don't mind my asking, are you still in a local church? If not, how long has it been since you have been a member of a local church?

Lee,

I was brought up in a Roman Catholic church from childhood until 1993 when I was introduced to Pentecostal/Charismatic church by my friends. All seemed well for a few years. I wasn't convinced of everything they taught especially the sign gifts. These doubts led me to search other Christian websites and was attracted to Baptists' sort of teaching because they didn't believe in sign gifts. Then I accidentally came accross Reformed teachings on the doctrines of grace. I was convinced by the scriptures that this was true. Then I found MR, where I started reading Tony Warren's articles. I knew that I found the right place. It was in 2002 I was convinced that I had to leave the free-will gospel church. Even I found out that Baptsts were also tenets of free-will gospel. Then I found that all churches surrounding my place had free-will gospel. Then we (some of the people who came out of the church) decided to have our own church. I took the leadership in this small church. Then again I was convinced from the scriptures that I was not qualified to be the Pastor and for me it was a serious matter. Since no one was qualified in our group, we had to close. Time and again I stood corrected by the Word of God by the grace of God. Since then I have never attended any church because I didn't find any faithful church. Even in a big city like Mumbai (formerly Bombay) with the population over 10 million, my brother couldn't find a faithful church. So see the situation we are now in. So I have been fellowshipping in MR and some other like minded Yahoo Groups since then.  I strongly believe that when the church is given to false doctrines, we should come out.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

God Bless,

DSOUZAANTHONY


Colleen

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2007, 07:52:36 AM »
Is eschatology important? Well, is the Bible important? Is what God says important to you? If not, why not?

 That is the question.

john


Well yes, it is important. But is it really that important? If I don't study eschatology, what will happen to me? Nothing, right? As long as I am saved, that's the important thing. What's wrong with that?


What's wrong with it is that God put those things in the bible for a reason. So how can you say it's not important? See what I mean? If it's there, then God must have thought it was important for us to know.

 1John 5:20 
 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life".




Theo

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2007, 09:12:06 AM »

I keep hearing the word eschatology brought up on this site. What is eschatology? I mean I think I can assume from the context that it has something to do with the doctrines of Lord's second coming and the millennium, but what does eschatology mean to the Christian life? Is it really that important a deal, and shouldn't we be concentrating on salvation rather than such doctrines?


Well, eschatology is the branch of Christian study that deals with the study of end times prophecy and the events of the final times before Christ's return. Some of the things it deals wirth are the Great Tribulation period, the Apostasy, the  Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ, the Millennial Kingdom and the end of the world Judgments.

 Isaiah 46:10
 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

But when people here teach on eschatology, they are dealing with salvation. It's all inter-related.



Beechwood

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 03:34:12 AM »

I keep hearing the word eschatology brought up on this site. What is eschatology?

Well, eschatology is the branch of Christian study that deals with the study of end times prophecy and the events of the final times before Christ's return. Some of the things it deals with are the Great Tribulation period, the Apostasy, the  Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ, the Millennial Kingdom and the end of the world Judgments. And these things are important, so eschatology is important.

Rose

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 04:45:47 AM »

 I've often wondered about the importance of eschatology too. It is so difficult to understand.
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

Tony Warren

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 08:41:22 AM »
>>>
I've often wondered about the importance of eschatology too.
<<<

The short version of why it is important is its definition. "Eschatology is the gospel that deals with the kingdom, the end times and final things that God has ordained should come to pass."

The long version is that eschatology is the study of metaphysics as it pertains to all the God ordained elements of future things and how it is related to past and present thngs. And more than that, their cause, growth and the final resolution. And although unrighteously separated from the gospel in importance by some theologians, it truly is "the gospel" of what the Bible says is, and what is going to happen. Just as it was for Prophets of old. It is God breathed theology that is as sure as any other Word of scripture. Eschatology is therefore a pure and exact science that has escaped the grasp of many theologians and Christians today. Because sadly, there is a great folly in the church of treating eschatology as an area of theology to be avoided, or at best, that we can be wishy-washy on. i.e., do not dare say another eschatology is definitely wrong, because it's divisive and not important in the big scheme of things. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Amos 3:7
  • "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Clearly, God has always deemed it important to reveal to His prophets--in a word, eschatology. To Noah his Ark to ride the waters of destruction, to Nineveh its destruction, to Abraham His covenant, to Israel their fall, to the elect their reward, to Judas his condemnation, etc., etc. Where or when has eschatology every been separated from the gospel except in our day? The Revelation is preparation and mercy unto God's children, a sort of light for their guide. In God manifesting the clear revelation of his will to His chosen, God is illustrating the principles upon which he will deal with man. Principles which are hardly unimportant, because they are in fact, the gospel.

Luke 12:39-40
  • "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
  • Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

This is eschatology. The coming of the Lord is imminent, through eschatology you as the goodman of the house, must know this. Thus, you must be ready and WATCH, or else suffer the consequences. Unimportant? Eschatology is more than the words Premillennial, Amillennial or Praeterist. And even then "at best" only one of these doctrines of the Millennial reign of our Lord Christ can be true. That's deemed unimportant? ..to who?

2nd Timothy 4:2-5
  • "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
  • And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
  • But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

Watch! Make full proof of the Ministry that none can charge you with the neglect of any part of thy duty. But what theologians preach today is not making full proof, it's making an all inclusive, mish-mash, take-your pick "salad bar" type gospel as it relates to God's magnificent plan. And contrary to vain philosophy, this is decidedly unChristian. Churches, pastors and Christian websites boldly feature all different types of Eschatology and shamelessly tell the children of God to take their pick because it doesn't matter as long as you are saved. But those are two contradictory ideas as if if you are saved, it will matter. This because you have an earnest desire to do the will of God and to follow faithfully His doctrines. Can you imagine Christ 2000 years ago presenting a selection of eschatologies to His disciples and teaching that it is not really important, so they can privately choose the one they personally like best? But this is what we see all over today. I've even had Pastors tell me to remove their eschatologies from their church listings, because they don't want to offend anyone of another eschatology. What are these people thinking? Instead, I remove their listing.

The little known fact is, Eschatology is as crucial as Christology or Soteriology, because it is Christology and Soteriology, the very heart of the gospel of the salvation of Christ.

Job 19:25
  • "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:"

Again, this was eschatology! Would we think it wasn't important for Job to know that His redeemer lived then and would stand at the latter day upon the earth? Apparently God thought it was important for him (and us) because He revealed it to Him, and through him, to us. That is an eschatology of salvation my friend. When was the last time you were taught eschatology as the doctrine of Christology or Soteriology? My guess is, never! And yet eschatology is both Christology and Soteriology. If you are planning on a future of being in that throng standing before the throne of God, that is eschatology. Or if you plan to be in that Kingdom that is delivered up to the father, then that is Eschatology. You can't separate the doctrine of God's wondrous salvation program and the Kingdom of Christ from Him, nor from the New Testament Millennial Kingdom. They are all intimately related.

Revelation 1:9
  • "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

If you do not even know what the kingdom of Christ really is, then how can you even distinguish between false doctrines and true doctrines that concern the salvation that is preached within it? If you are not led by the true Spirit of God to prove true eschatology, then exactly what kingdom are you preaching? A Kingdom of National Israel? Is that really the gospel of Christ, or in TRUTH is that actually antithetical to the gospel of Christ? How are we then Spirit led to distinguish between what is false and what is true?

1st John 4:1
  • "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

This is not just a nice phrase, it's what true believers "must" do so as not to be snared in false eschatology like Dispensationalism that try men's souls. We try the spirits by proving the things that they come preaching. Not by ignoring them or excusing them by recommending three novenas or taking two aspirins. We don't ignore every diverse doctrine and claim that it's OK just as long as we all say we are of Christ. It is true that we are not saved by knowing doctrine, but to use that as a reason to excuse is a cop-out.  Though often said in conjunction with the word unity, that philosophy is as far from Christian unity as light is to darkness. Christian unity is when believers are united in not being pulled in diverse directions by every wind or spirit of doctrine. To grow in grace is not just a slogan (as most Christians take it), it is a way of life. Christians shouldn't simply shrug their collective shoulders and welcome diverse seductive doctrines in the name of unity, they should try the spirits specifically so they are not pulled in every direction by every wind of doctrine. Now "THAT" is unity, not ignorance of the gospel of eschatology.

Ephesians 4:13-14
  • "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
  • That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

It is the "DUTY" of all faithful Christians to preserve truth, to speak against error and the seduction of worldly eschatologies. We have been appointed to try the spirits to prevent instability of mind, and we do that by sound judgment, not by being carried about with the crowd through the wide crooked gate.

Does knowing correct eschatology save us? No, of course not. Neither does any other doctrine, including the doctrine of salvation. That's why a newborn baby can be saved without knowing any doctrine. But it is there for a reason, just like any other Christian doctrine. And if we ignore God's command of 1st john, and are led astray by false eschatologies, who do we have to blame but ourselves? And more importantly, how can we say that parts of the divine Word of God are not important in the big scheme of things? I can assure you, the Biblical view of the deception, apostasy, millennium, Satan's binding, the Kingdom and last things is not incidental to the gospel, it is the gospel.

Luke 21:7-8
  • "And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
  • And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them."

That is eschatology, and Christ thought it not only important, but essential and crucial to mercy. I would suggest that professing Christians need to try to get the proper perspective on the last things, because to neglect it may be their downfall. How we understand God's plan in eschatology is directly related to the humility of faithful Christians in "receiving" of God, and it impacts how we live our lives. More importantly, on what we believe the Bible teaches, and thus what God says we are to expect to occur in His divinely ordained plan of salvation. Putting eschatology in its proper relationship to true Christian living, behavior and evangelism, we will better understand the reason Satan was bound at the cross, and not will be bound in some man-imagined future time. The causes and nature of the things transpiring in the church, why Satan will be loosed, and how to avoid the snares and wiles of the Devil.

Revelation 2:10
  • "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

That is eschatology! And though willful negligent people deem it unimportant, God warns His people again and again and again of how really important it is to have this knowledge of true eschatology. Because while discussions of eschatology pervade Televangelists speeches, the tabloids, and even TV movies, these are all without any Biblical validation. They are nothing more than fables. But on the other hand, Biblical eschatology is the Gospel. Think about it--without eschatology there is no salvation, there are no last things, there is no eternal destinations, there is no end when the Lord shall have delivered up the kingdom to the father, there is no time when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power (1st Corinthians 15:24). Eschatology is the declaration of all these things. So rather than look at eschatology as some sort of by-product "of" the gospel, we better start looking at it for what it is. The gospel itself!

Hebrews 11:20
  • "By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come."

In other words, concerning the great future things which should happen to their posterity after them. In a word, "eschatology!" Not Important? It is only the whole salvation plan in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 9:11
  • "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;"

Again, this is eschatology! And maybe if Israel had been a little more attuned to this eschatology, they wouldn't have rejected Christ as king, while looking for a worldly/earthly King and deliverer.

Selah!

If eschatology is not important, then why were the faithful preaching about the Abrahamic Covenant? If we really think about it, we will understand the truth that if we neglect eschatology, we really have to throw away most of the Old Testament. And is the New Testament any less filled with God's proclamations of things to come?

Yes, Eschatology was, is and will be important to you, me and every other God breathed Christian, and on many different levels.


Quote
>>>
It is so difficult to understand.
<<<

Yes, to be sure, it is a challenging area of study sometimes, but that doesn't make it unimportant to salvation or spiritual growth. In faithful eschatology, we learn how to live fruitfully in the Christian life today in preparation for the end times. I believe that in our day, if anyone puts in the effort to discern true eschatology, it's pretty clear that there is only one true eschatology. The Eschatology where the Israel of God is all the elect, and where Satan was bound at the cross, and where the Millennial Kingdom of Christ has been going forth ever since Christ ascended to heaven triumphantly. And to be honest, it's not rocket science if we simply "RECEIVE" what the scriptures say concerning it. But there is the rub. For that takes the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within us whereby we will have that earnest desire to know the truth, to work and to search the scriptures to see what is true (Acts 17:11). And sad to say, most people just don't have that, and are just to busy with their lives to bother. They have forgotten their first love.

i.e., the spirit of "it doesn't matter" is not the Spirit of God. Faith without works is dead!

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

anthony57

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2007, 11:14:55 AM »
>>>
I've often wondered about the importance of eschatology too.
<<<
>>>
I've often wondered about the importance of eschatology too.
<<<

The short version of why it is important is its definition. "Eschatology is the gospel that deals with the kingdom, the end times and final things that God has ordained should come to pass."

The long version is that eschatology is the study of metaphysics as it pertains to all the God ordained elements of future things and how it is related to past and present thngs. And more than that, their cause, growth and the final resolution. And although unrighteously separated from the gospel in importance by some theologians, it truly is "the gospel" of what the Bible says is, and what is going to happen. Just as it was for Prophets of old. It is God breathed theology that is as sure as any other Word of scripture. Eschatology is therefore a pure and exact science that has escaped the grasp of many theologians and Christians today. Because sadly, there is a great folly in the church of treating eschatology as an area of theology to be avoided, or at best, that we can be wishy-washy on. i.e., do not dare say another eschatology is definitely wrong, because it's divisive and not important in the big scheme of things. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Amos 3:7
  • "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Clearly, God has always deemed it important to reveal to His prophets--in a word, eschatology. To Noah his Ark to ride the waters of destruction, to Nineveh its destruction, to Abraham His covenant, to Israel their fall, to the elect their reward, to Judas his condemnation, etc., etc. Where or when has eschatology every been separated from the gospel except in our day? The Revelation is preparation and mercy unto God's children, a sort of light for their guide. In God manifesting the clear revelation of his will to His chosen, God is illustrating the principles upon which he will deal with man. Principles which are hardly unimportant, because they are in fact, the gospel.

Luke 12:39-40
  • "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
  • Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

This is eschatology. The coming of the Lord is imminent, through eschatology you as the goodman of the house, must know this. Thus, you must be ready and WATCH, or else suffer the consequences. Unimportant? Eschatology is more than the words Premillennial, Amillennial or Praeterist. And even then "at best" only one of these doctrines of the Millennial reign of our Lord Christ can be true. That's deemed unimportant? ..to who?

2nd Timothy 4:2-5
  • "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
  • And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
  • But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

Watch! Make full proof of the Ministry that none can charge you with the neglect of any part of thy duty. But what theologians preach today is not making full proof, it's making an all inclusive, mish-mash, take-your pick "salad bar" type gospel as it relates to God's magnificent plan. And contrary to vain philosophy, this is decidedly unChristian. Churches, pastors and Christian websites boldly feature all different types of Eschatology and shamelessly tell the children of God to take their pick because it doesn't matter as long as you are saved. But those are two contradictory ideas as if if you are saved, it will matter. This because you have an earnest desire to do the will of God and to follow faithfully His doctrines. Can you imagine Christ 2000 years ago presenting a selection of eschatologies to His disciples and teaching that it is not really important, so they can privately choose the one they personally like best? But this is what we see all over today. I've even had Pastors tell me to remove their eschatologies from their church listings, because they don't want to offend anyone of another eschatology. What are these people thinking? Instead, I remove their listing.

The little known fact is, Eschatology is as crucial as Christology or Soteriology, because it is Christology and Soteriology, the very heart of the gospel of the salvation of Christ.

Job 19:25
  • "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:"

Again, this was eschatology! Would we think it wasn't important for Job to know that His redeemer lived then and would stand at the latter day upon the earth? Apparently God thought it was important for him (and us) because He revealed it to Him, and through him, to us. That is an eschatology of salvation my friend. When was the last time you were taught eschatology as the doctrine of Christology or Soteriology? My guess is, never! And yet eschatology is both Christology and Soteriology. If you are planning on a future of being in that throng standing before the throne of God, that is eschatology. Or if you plan to be in that Kingdom that is delivered up to the father, then that is Eschatology. You can't separate the doctrine of God's wondrous salvation program and the Kingdom of Christ from Him, nor from the New Testament Millennial Kingdom. They are all intimately related.

Revelation 1:9
  • "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

If you do not even know what the kingdom of Christ really is, then how can you even distinguish between false doctrines and true doctrines that concern the salvation that is preached within it? If you are not led by the true Spirit of God to prove true eschatology, then exactly what kingdom are you preaching? A Kingdom of National Israel? Is that really the gospel of Christ, or in TRUTH is that actually antithetical to the gospel of Christ? How are we then Spirit led to distinguish between what is false and what is true?

1st John 4:1
  • "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

This is not just a nice phrase, it's what true believers "must" do so as not to be snared in false eschatology like Dispensationalism that try men's souls. We try the spirits by proving the things that they come preaching. Not by ignoring them or excusing them by recommending three novenas or taking two aspirins. We don't ignore every diverse doctrine and claim that it's OK just as long as we all say we are of Christ. It is true that we are not saved by knowing doctrine, but to use that as a reason to excuse is a cop-out.  Though often said in conjunction with the word unity, that philosophy is as far from Christian unity as light is to darkness. Christian unity is when believers are united in not being pulled in diverse directions by every wind or spirit of doctrine. To grow in grace is not just a slogan (as most Christians take it), it is a way of life. Christians shouldn't simply shrug their collective shoulders and welcome diverse seductive doctrines in the name of unity, they should try the spirits specifically so they are not pulled in every direction by every wind of doctrine. Now "THAT" is unity, not ignorance of the gospel of eschatology.

Ephesians 4:13-14
  • "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
  • That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

It is the "DUTY" of all faithful Christians to preserve truth, to speak against error and the seduction of worldly eschatologies. We have been appointed to try the spirits to prevent instability of mind, and we do that by sound judgment, not by being carried about with the crowd through the wide crooked gate.

Does knowing correct eschatology save us? No, of course not. Neither does any other doctrine, including the doctrine of salvation. That's why a newborn baby can be saved without knowing any doctrine. But it is there for a reason, just like any other Christian doctrine. And if we ignore God's command of 1st john, and are led astray by false eschatologies, who do we have to blame but ourselves? And more importantly, how can we say that parts of the divine Word of God are not important in the big scheme of things? I can assure you, the Biblical view of the deception, apostasy, millennium, Satan's binding, the Kingdom and last things is not incidental to the gospel, it is the gospel.

Luke 21:7-8
  • "And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
  • And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them."

That is eschatology, and Christ thought it not only important, but essential and crucial to mercy. I would suggest that professing Christians need to try to get the proper perspective on the last things, because to neglect it may be their downfall. How we understand God's plan in eschatology is directly related to the humility of faithful Christians in "receiving" of God, and it impacts how we live our lives. More importantly, on what we believe the Bible teaches, and thus what God says we are to expect to occur in His divinely ordained plan of salvation. Putting eschatology in its proper relationship to true Christian living, behavior and evangelism, we will better understand the reason Satan was bound at the cross, and not will be bound in some man-imagined future time. The causes and nature of the things transpiring in the church, why Satan will be loosed, and how to avoid the snares and wiles of the Devil.

Revelation 2:10
  • "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

That is eschatology! And though willful negligent people deem it unimportant, God warns His people again and again and again of how really important it is to have this knowledge of true eschatology. Because while discussions of eschatology pervade Televangelists speeches, the tabloids, and even TV movies, these are all without any Biblical validation. They are nothing more than fables. But on the other hand, Biblical eschatology is the Gospel. Think about it--without eschatology there is no salvation, there are no last things, there is no eternal destinations, there is no end when the Lord shall have delivered up the kingdom to the father, there is no time when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power (1st Corinthians 15:24). Eschatology is the declaration of all these things. So rather than look at eschatology as some sort of by-product "of" the gospel, we better start looking at it for what it is. The gospel itself!

Hebrews 11:20
  • "By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come."

In other words, concerning the great future things which should happen to their posterity after them. In a word, "eschatology!" Not Important? It is only the whole salvation plan in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 9:11
  • "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;"

Again, this is eschatology! And maybe if Israel had been a little more attuned to this eschatology, they wouldn't have rejected Christ as king, while looking for a worldly/earthly King and deliverer.

Selah!

If eschatology is not important, then why were the faithful preaching about the Abrahamic Covenant? If we really think about it, we will understand the truth that if we neglect eschatology, we really have to throw away most of the Old Testament. And is the New Testament any less filled with God's proclamations of things to come?

Yes, Eschatology was, is and will be important to you, me and every other God breathed Christian, and on many different levels.


Quote
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It is so difficult to understand.
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Yes, to be sure, it is a challenging area of study sometimes, but that doesn't make it unimportant to salvation or spiritual growth. In faithful eschatology, we learn how to live fruitfully in the Christian life today in preparation for the end times. I believe that in our day, if anyone puts in the effort to discern true eschatology, it's pretty clear that there is only one true eschatology. The Eschatology where the Israel of God is all the elect, and where Satan was bound at the cross, and where the Millennial Kingdom of Christ has been going forth ever since Christ ascended to heaven triumphantly. And to be honest, it's not rocket science if we simply "RECEIVE" what the scriptures say concerning it. But there is the rub. For that takes the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within us whereby we will have that earnest desire to know the truth, to work and to search the scriptures to see what is true (Acts 17:11). And sad to say, most people just don't have that, and are just to busy with their lives to bother. They have forgotten their first love.

i.e., the spirit of "it doesn't matter" is not the Spirit of God. Faith without works is dead!

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Very good, I like this, and I would like to add  that christ promised that he would teach his church Things to come [Eschatology]
jn 16:

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
"There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what...is called Calvinism...It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

charles spurgeon

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2007, 01:32:21 PM »
The long version is that eschatology is the study of metaphysics as it pertains to all the God ordained elements of future things and how it is related to past and present things. And more than that, their cause, growth and the final resolution. And although unrighteously separated from the gospel in importance by some theologians, it truly is "the gospel" of what the Bible says is, and what is going to happen. Just as it was for Prophets of old. It is God breathed theology that is as sure as any other Word of scripture. Eschatology is therefore a pure and exact science that has escaped the grasp of many theologians and Christians today. Because sadly, there is a great folly in the church of treating eschatology as an area of theology to be avoided, or at best, that we can be wishy-washy on. i.e., do not dare say another eschatology is definitely wrong, because it's divisive and not important in the big scheme of things. Nothing could be further from the truth.


 Excellent speech Tony, and good food for thought. I do see where you are coming from. I'm going to pass it along to someone who believes it's not important and see how he reacts to it.

Reformer

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2008, 09:27:34 AM »

 Excellent speech Tony, and good food for thought. I do see where you are coming from. I'm going to pass it along to someone who believes it's not important and see how he reacts to it.


 People who don't think Eschatology is important (which means most people and most christians) are not going to be swayed by Tony's post.  I don't know one person who has been swayed by Tony's posts, my posts, your posts or anyone elses. They have to be swayed by the holy spirit.

 Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 Re 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

It should be obvious to any christian that eschatology is important, since it is God's word, and he wouldn't have given it to show us things to come if he thought it was unimportant. Duh! So people who think that way, are people who have not made Christ lord of their lives. Christ has to be ruler over us before we will recognize the importance of his word.



Halle

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2008, 04:29:50 AM »
Which brings up again the larger question. What is a cause  of division? Is Grace? Is the defeat of satan at the cross. How important should the question of the millennium or eschatology be for the Christian belief? Should the Christians strive for uniformity that we'll never have, or should there be an openness to a variety of views in the Church? Can we even be really be sure we have the right eschatology? I think Tony answered it best, but these are questions which I don't have an sure answer.

Hi everyone. I'm new here on this forum, but have been reading on the website for a while now and have just be amazed at how little I knew, and how much I have learned by coming here. A simply great web site.

I guess my first post will be on this subject that I find very interesting since so many of us are confronted with it. I think the answer is that we should always stand up for what is true. Not in a disruptive manner, but still making it clear that we cannot accept false teachings. And I do not think that is an attack on Church unity, rather it is standing up for it. Because how can you have unity when you are going against what is true?

 Matthew 12:30
 "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."


Doesn't this scripture teach against a unity that is against what Christ teaches?



Curtis

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2012, 09:05:38 AM »
I hear the term Pauline Eschatology a lot of reformed resources. I was just wondering, is Pauline Eschatology a biblical or justified term, seeing as how eschatology is not unique to Paul's writings. Nor is Paul's writings unique from other bible writers. I was thinking how calling it Pauline Eschatology kind of distinguishes it as somehow different from the eschatology of other books.

Blessings to you,
 Curtis

Tony Warren

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Re: What is Eschatology and is it Important?
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2012, 04:45:02 AM »
>>>
I hear the term Pauline Eschatology a lot of reformed resources. I was just wondering, is Pauline Eschatology a biblical or justified term, seeing as how eschatology is not unique to Paul's writings. Nor is Paul's writings unique from other bible writers. I was thinking how calling it Pauline Eschatology kind of distinguishes it as somehow different from the eschatology of other books.

Blessings to you,
 Curtis
<<<


Hello Curtis, and welcome to the forum.

Good point. Briefly, Pauline Eschatology is a term used by some scholars and intellectuals (Geerhardus Vos, others) to (sort of) distinguish between Old Testament Jewish eschatology and their provisional worldly vision of the Messiah as King and ruler, and what Paul taught concerning Messiah/Christ, His kingdom, work and the end of the age.

And yes, like the term "Calvinism," the phrase "Pauline Eschatology" is also a misnomer. As it tends to leave the impression that Paul's Eschatology was somehow different from Old Testament eschatology, or even that it was "Paul's Eschatology." Like Calvinism, it's usually well-meant, but (in my view) unnecessary, unbiblical and confuses common people, rather than enlighten the masses. Which I believe is the whole point. But some people (like with the term Calvinism) swear that it's a helpful term, so...

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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