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Author Topic: Calvinism  (Read 4693 times)

A-M

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Calvinism
« on: February 23, 2012, 04:28:07 PM »
Not sure if this is correct section to share this or not.

Last night my husband and I attended a talk by a visiting Preacher from the USA ( I live in Australia ) The Church we have been attending since the beginning of this year are hosting this speaker.
We both felt so uncomfortable with this man's teaching.  He was speaking against Calvinism with the topic last night being "Total Deprivation"   All the scriptures he gave he said they were what Calvinist claim for their beliefs  but strangely he never gave any verses that disputed what those verses said so in a sense he did not explain why they were false. 
We felt he was saying that the Bible was false.... how dare he!!!!!
He claimed that we are not born sinners that we become sinners at a certain age. My husband asked him when that would be and he evaded the question.  Another person asked a question that he also evaded by going onto another subject.

Now we are so confused because if our Pastor starts preaching the things this man is doing, we will need to find another Church and we felt so certain this was the Church God wanted us to be worshipping at.

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 05:37:35 PM »
Not sure if this is correct section to share this or not.

Last night my husband and I attended a talk by a visiting Preacher from the USA ( I live in Australia ) The Church we have been attending since the beginning of this year are hosting this speaker.
We both felt so uncomfortable with this man's teaching.  He was speaking against Calvinism with the topic last night being "Total Deprivation"



First,
  You shouldn't be attending a Church that doesn't teach the doctrines of grace (what you call Calvinism), and second, you shouldn't be attending a Church that allows someone to stand up in it and teach against these doctrines. Obviously, that Church is not a Biblical Church. There is no sound judgment there. Just because you feel comfortable in a Church doesn't mean it's a biblical Church.


Quote
    but strangely he never gave any verses that disputed what those verses said so in a sense he did not explain why they were false. 

That's because it is impossible to say the word as written is untrue directly, so they either twist it, privately interpret it or ignore it. Nothing new there.


Quote
He claimed that we are not born sinners that we become sinners at a certain age. My husband asked him when that would be and he evaded the question.  Another person asked a question that he also evaded by going onto another subject.


If I were you, I wouldn't be so much upset over the teacher, but the Church itself to allow this to take place. There is where your true problem lies. Don't allow yourselves to get comfortable with this Church.


midas

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 11:20:49 PM »
Many if not all churches have fallen --- I would come out of that church for sure --- Follow Christ and not false teachers who are lurking in many of the churches today ...   


2 Corinthians 11:13-16  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. I say again, Let no man think me foolish; but if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

1 Peter 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begins with us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?         

II Thessalonians 2:3:-4, 11 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God....And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 12:18:38 AM »
I don't know that I'd say all Churches have fallen, but I do know that you shouldn't remain in that one. I would encourage you to try and find another Church that is faithful to the scriptures and doesn't allow such confusion within its midst. Granted, they are hard to find these days.


SavedByGrace

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 10:59:59 AM »
I agree with RB and the other comments here. 

I, like many others on this forum, have found that holding to the truths of Gods Word alone will put you in a position of not being comfortable with the world, and since the churches today are using carnal means to attract carnal people, then why should we be surprised that most all of our churches are now carnal (worldly).

When we hold fast to the truths of God’s word, we should expect to be rejected by the world.  I don't believe that rejection alone is a sign that we have truth, but having truth will set you apart as the odd-fellow.

1 Corinthians 16:13  Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.
Galatians 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
Philippians 1:27  … I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
2 Thessalonians 2:15  Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.


Let us come together here on the MR site and encourage one another too good works, in the bonds of love, which all true Christians need so much , during these parlous times.

The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

Reformer

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 06:49:00 PM »
Not sure if this is correct section to share this or not.

Last night my husband and I attended a talk by a visiting Preacher from the USA ( I live in Australia ) The Church we have been attending since the beginning of this year are hosting this speaker.
We both felt so uncomfortable with this man's teaching.  He was speaking against Calvinism with the topic last night being "Total Deprivation" 

Now we are so confused because if our Pastor starts preaching the things this man is doing, we will need to find another Church and we felt so certain this was the Church God wanted us to be worshipping at.

Did you ask the Pastor about it? You should first bring your concerns to the Pastor. If he does not hold to the doctrines of grace, then you have your answer of why this man was speaking there. I'm assuming you knew the doctrine of the Church before joining?


Joe Johnson

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 09:35:54 PM »
And now for a completely different point of view from common sense, not repeating John Calvin's words. Calvinism is not from the Bible, it is from a man, John Calvin. This pastor who was invited to speak at your Church, it doesn't seem you were listening to him at all. Just mad Because he put down the hairy hand of Johnny Calvin. Better you should hear the scriptures, which I'm sure he gave and you missed. People hear what they want to hear.

Jos 24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Leave Johnny Calvin the the grave where he belongs. That scripture we have free will. Aren't you free to read this post or skip over it? Likewise, you are free to listen to Calvinism or to the Bible.

JohnDunningUK

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 09:55:35 PM »
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Romans 3:9-18 (KJV)


If the above is true of us all in our natural state, how exactly are we supposed to exercise our free will in order to choose good? If that were possible, no matter how slight the possiblity, we would not need Christ.
It's all about Him!

A-M

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 10:14:26 PM »

Did you ask the Pastor about it? You should first bring your concerns to the Pastor. If he does not hold to the doctrines of grace, then you have your answer of why this man was speaking there. I'm assuming you knew the doctrine of the Church before joining?

We have worshipped at this Church since the start of this year and they have no written doctrine for any newcomers to read. They state they only go by the written word of God.  All the teaching from the Pastor we have received to date has been true to the Word.

A-M

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »
And now for a completely different point of view from common sense, not repeating John Calvin's words. Calvinism is not from the Bible, it is from a man, John Calvin. This pastor who was invited to speak at your Church, it doesn't seem you were listening to him at all. Just mad Because he put down the hairy hand of Johnny Calvin. Better you should hear the scriptures, which I'm sure he gave and you missed. People hear what they want to hear.

Jos 24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Leave Johnny Calvin the the grave where he belongs. That scripture we have free will. Aren't you free to read this post or skip over it? Likewise, you are free to listen to Calvinism or to the Bible.

I had heard of Calvinism but did not really know what it was until we saw the titles for this visiting Preacher's talks.  So I looked at the articles on this website for information.

I certainly do not worship a man's teaching. 
My husband and I seek to find a Church where we can truly worship Our Lord with fellow believers who try to live their lives according to the Bible.

Pearson

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 12:20:51 AM »

I had heard of Calvinism but did not really know what it was until we saw the titles for this visiting Preacher's talks.


[Soapbox mode on]

See, that's the trick. If they call it Calvinism, then they can rail against it. Who's going to rail against the doctrines of Christ? No one. But the doctrines of Calvin, Oh yeah, they can rail against that and call it unbiblical, because John Calvin invented it. This brings up an old touchy topic that has proponents here on both sides of the issue. But rather than confuse any new members, the debate is here.


You have half the forum members here who will claw your eyes out (I think literally) before they would give up the name of Calvinism. And the you have the other half who recognize it for the misnomer it is and hold to the doctrines of grace. I fall into that second category. I am not a Calvinist holding to the doctrines that John Calvin taught. I am a Christian holding to the doctrines that Christ taught, the doctrines of Grace. Despite those here who will protest that there is any difference, Calvinism and the Doctrines of Grace in Predestination are two different things. Predestination is not Calvinism, it is the doctrine of Christ. Those coming from the Reformed and Puritan traditions are usually the ones who desperately cling to the term Calvinism. I feel sad that many love worshiping Reformers rather than the Christ the Reformers taught.

But that's..


Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]


ray

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 12:47:04 AM »
And now for a completely different point of view from common sense, not repeating John Calvin's words. Calvinism is not from the Bible, it is from a man, John Calvin. This pastor who was invited to speak at your Church, it doesn't seem you were listening to him at all. Just mad Because he put down the hairy hand of Johnny Calvin. Better you should hear the scriptures, which I'm sure he gave and you missed. People hear what they want to hear.

Jos 24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Leave Johnny Calvin the the grave where he belongs. That scripture we have free will. Aren't you free to read this post or skip over it? Likewise, you are free to listen to Calvinism or to the Bible.

Hey Joe, I trust you can do a lot better than this , because this passage says nothing of mans freewill to choose righteousness, Joshua is giving the Israelites the choice between two evils.

Aaron

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 12:30:22 PM »
Shalom—
To properly understand Calvinism mandates we have a proper understand of Covenant Theology. Much of the conversation here is a confusing mixture of Theologies. Those who promote Calvinism’s grace are speaking from a Covenant Theology perspective, but those who would promote the legalities of “free-will” are speaking strictly from a New Covenant Theology perspective. These are very different Theologies.
Aaron

SavedByGrace

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 02:24:51 PM »
Shalom—
To properly understand Calvinism mandates we have a proper understand of Covenant Theology. Much of the conversation here is a confusing mixture of Theologies. Those who promote Calvinism’s grace are speaking from a Covenant Theology perspective, but those who would promote the legalities of “free-will” are speaking strictly from a New Covenant Theology perspective. These are very different Theologies.
Aaron

Aaron,

I thought that I had some idea of CT and NCT, but I was not aware of anything that changed or favored the doctrines of Free-will and Calvinism here.  Can you elaborate a little more?  Perhaps there is something that I missed.

Thanks
Bill
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Aaron

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Re: Calvinism
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2012, 11:14:00 AM »
Bill, my post had the 2-24-12 post of Joe Johnson in mind:
"And now for a completely different point of view from common sense, not repeating John Calvin's words. Calvinism is not from the Bible, it is from a man, John Calvin. This pastor who was invited to speak at your Church, it doesn't seem you were listening to him at all. Just mad Because he put down the hairy hand of Johnny Calvin. Better you should hear the scriptures, which I'm sure he gave and you missed. People hear what they want to hear.

Jos 24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Leave Johnny Calvin the the grave where he belongs. That scripture we have free will. Aren't you free to read this post or skip over it? Likewise, you are free to listen to Calvinism or to the Bible."

Although it would also be representative of the overall condition of today's church. From my own experience, the Reformed /Presbyterian Church is somewhat lacking in their knowledge of Covenant Theology. Sometimes it would seem that the Reformed Church is gradually slipping towards the Baptist and their New Covenant Theology.
Aaron

 


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