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Author Topic: Are Roman Catholics Saved?  (Read 11591 times)

judykanova

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #120 on: April 15, 2012, 07:07:31 PM »
This topic seems to have escalated, spilled over into other areas, and brought people who rarely have anything to offer out of the woodwork, including those who see this as an opportunity to promote their anti- women agenda.  So I’m jumping back to the fray to address some things that have been said after I indicated that I was done.

As my record  bears me out, I have spoken against divorce, lenient modern-day child-rearing practices, homosexuality, women pastors , etc. and as most of you who been here for awhile know, I have spoken against catholic doctrine and leadership (false prophets who come with another gospel) many times.   Also, without prior objections, I (and others) have previously taken the stance that we should judge behavior, doctrine and those who bring them, but when it comes to condemning the soul of another, that goes beyong what we are instructed to do.  Rather we should allow God's Word -- which is a doubled-edged sword, either condemn or save.

Moreover, in this thread I have asked to be shown how I may have misinterpreted the passages upon which my views are based.  Saying those Scriptures don’t apply without addressing them straight-on and without making any attempt at reconciliation is not an answer.

Secondly,  some seem to be equating the ‘corporate’ (perhaps a poor choice of word on my part) church,  with God’s true church.  Many here have long spoken of the “corporate” church versus the true church comprised of only the elect.  Some have referred to it as the “visible” versus the indivisible church, or the “external” church versus  the internal church, or the earthly representation of the church versus the spiritual church.  I have always used the term “corporate” church to include all denominations that have arisen out of the original 7 churches of the NT.   We know from accounts in Rev 1-2 that all but two of the seven were already in trouble with God.  We also know that most if not all earthly representations of the NT church will fall by the wayside before Christ returns -- just as OT national Israel did.

So I was taken aback by the outrage that arose – as though the “corporate” church conveyed God’s true church.  I did not realize that for some the “corporate” church only included traditional protestant denominations, and confess my ignorance of this.  Even if I were to assume the same definition, that would still include a good many protestant churches who believe in free will and in works doctrines (as the catholic church does).   The bottom line is that this division by denomination is in itself unbiblical regardless of how one defines it, because in God’s eyes there is only one church against whom the gates of hell shall not prevail, and that is the true/spiritual church comprised of the elect.

1 Corinthains:
12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.


When God returns to separate the wheat from the tares (which He said he would do, and we are not to do),  it would not surprise me if a great many will have had no association with any church at all, given the hypocrisy and self-righteous pride regardless of denomination.

The term  “believer”  also seems to mean different things to different people.  I have always made a distinction between “believer” and “true believer”.   Some say, if you’re a catholic, you can’t be a believer, much less a true believer.  Furthermore, if they are saved, they would no longer associate themselves with the catholic church.  I tend to agree with the latter, but even so, we then get into games of probability and time-limits, then a progression occurs into making condemning statements against all individuals within any given denomination.

Perhaps one cannot realistically view an individual separate  from the denomination he/she is associated with.  As Tony has said  “by definition”  (meaning catholic doctrines I assume?)  the doctrines of the church that one is associated with,  defines the person, and therefore all catholic are unsaved.   I understand the logic, yet the miracle of salvation occurs at the individual level, and each and everyone is dead in trespasses and sin (regardless of denomination or lack thereof) before they are saved.    I remind you good Methodist/ Lutherans/ Presbyterians/Baptist (me before I left over 10 years ago), that it’s a miracle that any one of us is saved, and that  the parable of the “rich man” and “publican” can be applied to anyone, even a lowly catholic who despite all, still has the Scriptures.

Mark 10:25
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26  And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27  And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Luke 18
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10  Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11  The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


My stance has nothing to do with sentimentality.  I have always said and believe that when it comes to making judgments concerns the soul condition of another, that that’s between that person and God alone,  based on Scriptures previously sited by me and a few others, which have yet to be addressed head-on and reconciled.
I recognize I could be wrong, but until/unless those passages are addressed, I cannot in good conscience say otherwise.

I value this web site and its forums because of its uncompromising adherence to sound  biblical doctrine.  But when it comes to how we treat each other when a different viewpoint is given with supporting Scriptures, this forum has much to be desired.   When emotional ranting, ridicule and dishonest representation of what another has said is attributed to godly “zeal”,  then something is wrong.  When opportunistic anti-women sentiments are encouraged, something is wrong.

True Christianity extends beyond doctrine which could be limited to a few core/basic principles and beliefs concerning Christ.   Doctrine is important, and is where this site excels above others,  but according to the Bible the way we treat each other is just as important . Kindness  is not equated to weakness nor sentimentality, and can be extended without expense to sound doctrine.

1 Corintians 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Reformer

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #121 on: April 15, 2012, 07:32:00 PM »
Not to "Pick" on Judy, but here we're left in confusion again, left to imagine, guess and speculate just who it is who has made these alleged "ANTI-WOMEN" comments. Can't be me, because I haven't made any, so just who are you talking about "O secret one?" Typical. Talk, without ever saying anything specific, just a deliberate Vagueness where you know no more now, than you knew before she made the post.

Stop with the smoke and mirrors Judy, speak up and be honest for a change. Just who made these anti-women comments, and more to the point, what were they specifically.

And I say again with all due respect, if you can't answer a simple question honestly, then really, what is the purpose of this post?


Wayne

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2012, 08:40:47 PM »
Russell Lloyd voiced his opinion and questions on changing values with relationship to scripture, which I don't think was anti Women. John posted additional comments about the differences that I don't think were anti-women either. Erik Diamond said both had made Good observance, and I don't think he was Anti-Women. Charles said women and men are different and men are ordained generally more qualified to be the leaders.  That's not anti-women. Sojourner said God is reminding us that there is to be a subordination of wife to husband, husband to Christ, and Christ to God. That's not anti-women. The rest of the comments were by women. So I have to echo Reformer in asking, just who made these anti-women comments, and more to the point, what were they specifically. And why do you think they are anti-women?

You want some cheese with that whine?

judykanova

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #123 on: April 15, 2012, 09:58:20 PM »
Not to "Pick" on Judy, but here we're left in confusion again, left to imagine, guess and speculate just who it is who has made these alleged "ANTI-WOMEN" comments. Can't be me, because I haven't made any, so just who are you talking about "O secret one?" Typical. Talk, without ever saying anything specific, just a deliberate Vagueness where you know no more now, than you knew before she made the post.

Stop with the smoke and mirrors Judy, speak up and be honest for a change. Just who made these anti-women comments, and more to the point, what were they specifically.

And I say again with all due respect, if you can't answer a simple question honestly, then really, what is the purpose of this post?

As occurred earlier, a question is posed for the first time, and even as it is being asked, you in the same breath say I have not answered it.  A very honest approach?  Not!

So I will answer the obvious.  I am specifically referring to Russell Lloyd who started the spin-off thread “Your Women Rule Over Your Men”.

You quickly latched onto this, yet still have not addressed what I been asking  -- namely that each and everyone one of the Scriptures upon which I base my viewpoint be addressed head-on.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Reformer

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #124 on: April 15, 2012, 10:21:16 PM »
So I will answer the obvious.  I am specifically referring to Russell Lloyd who started the spin-off thread “Your Women Rule Over Your Men”.

You quickly latched onto this,
judy

Judy.
 Dear lady. YOU are the one who said you were done with this thread. Then you were the one who jumped back in claiming anti-women comments were made by some unnamed source. Not I. You! I didn't even comment on it. I simply asked, who it was that made your anti-women comment and what was the comment. Is that allowed in your world? Geez!

At least you confessed it was the newcomer Russell who so offended you. I guess that's progress. Though, as usual, you can't even list , quote or repeat the supposedly anti-women comment you accuse him of. Maybe because it doesn't exist. Or was it really anti-women only in you and Betty's mind, seeing how you can't remember what he said that was anti-woman? Oh, it's also a secret?

Was it the scriptures he listed where God said women rule over you as a negative, and are you offended by God's words? Or are you done with this thread again?


billnjune

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #125 on: April 23, 2012, 11:37:45 AM »
This exciting video unfolds the fascinating "untold" history of the Bible, revealing critical information often overlooked in modern histories and covered up by the Catholic Church over the ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNZ-sOzXWEk&context=C414c1b3ADvjVQa1PpcFO-J4-cs7mSAhiP_mUIfdYnt0emWupRd8k=
The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

Doug Johnson

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2013, 05:44:39 AM »
This exciting video unfolds the fascinating "untold" history of the Bible, revealing critical information often overlooked in modern histories and covered up by the Catholic Church over the ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNZ-sOzXWEk&context=C414c1b3ADvjVQa1PpcFO-J4-cs7mSAhiP_mUIfdYnt0emWupRd8k=


That was propaganda and you know it.

Bunyan

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Re: Are Roman Catholics Saved?
« Reply #127 on: October 15, 2013, 08:22:16 AM »
That was propaganda and you know it.

Doug,
  How can anyone who posts the links that you post talk about a link being propaganda? The pot calling the kettle black.  So, are Roman Catholics saved? I think a better question is this: Do I believe that someone who is a committed member of the Roman Catholic Church can be a true Christian? No, I do not. I believe that the majority of Roman Catholics that I have come in contact with and talked to are not true Christians. On the other hand, I don’t believe that the majority of Protestants that I have come in contact with are true Christians either. Why do I believe this? Because simply confessing to being a Christian does not mean that one is born from above to truly embrace the ideals of Christianity.

But that doesn't change the fact that the confessions of the Roman Catholic Church are decidedly unchristian, and that pretty much means those who truly believe in it are not part of Christ's Church. More than that, we have to ask ourselves how anyone can believe and confess that their works contribute to their salvation and be saved? My answer would be they can't. And that's what Roman Catholics do. They are just as bad (or worse) than the Priests, scribes and Pharisees who did that same thing. If that belief in works  couldn't save the Jews who were God's beloved covenanted people whom Christ wept over, how can it save Catholics.

I understand that liberal Christians and evangelicals won't accept that, but I don't see how anyone can believe and confess that their works contribute to their salvation and be saved?
"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace
says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done
."
- Martin Luther

 


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