What about all the Good people in the World?

[Clifford Grodin]

I was reading the thread asking the question, are Roman Catholics saved? It got me to thinking. What about all the good people in the world? Are they all going to suffer hell as well? There are good Catholics, good Jews, good Muslims, are we to say they are all going to hell just because they don't look at Jesus the way we do?

[lpowell]

No, we are not the one to Judge.  For we all deserve Hell, Rom 3:23 

Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

The question is rather to you Clifford.  Are you really concerned by the burden of your sin as I should be of mine?

Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Lloyd

[midas]

There are good Catholics, good Jews, good Muslims, are we to say they are all going to hell just because they don't look at Jesus the way we do?

So what makes a good person a good person ? 

Is a person who doesn't do drugs, goes to church regularly however tells a lie here and there a good person ---- and the person who smokes marijuana but doesn't tell lies a bad person? 

Who is a better person in God's eye's deserving to go to heaven?  --- Who is that good person ----  or maybe being a good person isn't Gods criteria for getting into heaven? Maybe it's mans criteria or man trying to decide who should get into heaven.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Hmmm - Did God just say none that doeth good?

Those practicing the Jewish religion will go to hell because they have no blood sacrifice to cover their sins

Those practicing the Muslim religion will go to hell because they are following another book and are worshipping another god. The Koran is NOT the word of God nor is it holy. They do not believe that Jesus is God, they believe He is a prophet of God. Jesus said that if you do not believe that I AM you will die in your sins.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

People who are following the Jewish or Muslim religion do NOT believe Jesus is God - So God said they go to hell

Those practicing the False Christian religions will go to hell if they don’t follow Gods REAL plan of salvation as stated in the Bible. The devil knows that he can deceive many people by having churches that look, smell, and taste like a real Christian churches but are just a little bit off on doctrine. This little bit off is usually adding a little bit of works to the plan of salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you need to confess your sins to a priest - If you need to be a member of our church - If you need to be water baptized - All works that God said it will NOT get you saved

[Tony Warren]

>>>
I was reading the thread asking the question, are Roman Catholics saved? It got me to thinking. What about all the good people in the world?
<<<

What good people? There are no good people in the world. Compared to the holiness of God, all mankind falls short of the law of God, so that there is not one who is good.

Romans 3:23

• "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The concept of good people is a humanistic concept. That is to say, this belief in the principle of humanity having the capacity for his own fulfillment (apart from God) through reason and scientific methodology is invalid and decidedly unbiblical. Sin entered the world through the first man Adam. So that because of this, there are no good people (Psalms 14:3; Romans 3:10). Those who think that good people exist (which I think is also at the root of people who defend Roman Catholics) comes from a world view that's based upon mans idea of fairness, rather than the truth.

The bible says some things about this subject:

1) Every man has been given a measure of faith (Romans 12:3)
2) Every man is without excuse (Romans 10)
3) There are none good, no not one (Romans 3:12)

That stinging indictment of God against the whole human race is unassailable. So the idea of "good people," implying that they deserve to be saved also, is 100% contrary to Christiandom, and is part of a world view antithetic to Christ. You're basically saying that there is some quality in some people that others lacks that should causes him to be good in God's eyes. And that is simply not true. There is no such thing as a good man "apart from Christ!" It is only through the blood of Christ that a person can become good in God's eyes and be saved.

"...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, 'What have you that you did not receive?' (1 Cor. 4:7), and, 'But by the grace of God I am what I am' (1 Cor. 15:10)."

>>>
 There are good Catholics, good Jews, good Muslims,
<<<

Mark 10:18

• "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

There are "no" good Catholics, good Jews or good Muslims. There are no good people, period.

Romans 3:10-11

• "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
• There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

So who are you going to believe? The word of God, or your own words and opinions?

Romans 3:23

• "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

If all have sinned, how can you say that anyone is good? We're all bad, we've all sinned, we've all fallen short. There is none righteous, which means there are none good. And so say that there are good Catholics, good Jews and good Muslims, apart from salvation in Christ, is to blatantly contradict the living God.

>>>
  are we to say they are all going to hell just because they don't look at Jesus the way we do?
<<<

Matthew 5:22

• "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Anyone who has fallen short in one small matter of the law is in danger of Hell fire, and we have all fallen short. We have all sinned. We have all violated the law of God. No, we don't say they are all going to hell just because they don't look at Jesus the way we do, we witness to the fact that God says without Christ they will face the damnation of Hell.

You see, the problem with most professing Christians is that they transpose the words of God, witnessed by faithful Christians, upon those who testify to it and then "claim" it's their own words. Just because we testify to it, doesn't mean that we authored it. But that's how many Christians presume to get around God's word. But it doesn't work like that.

Luke 12:5

• "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Don't fear our words, fear the word of God. If people end up in hell, they end up there because of their own sins, and because they themselves have no savior, not because "WE" say they are all going to hell just because they don't have Christ. "WE" didn't say it, the Lord God said it. There is no salvation any other way. There is one way. Yes, we can sit in the vain imaginations of our own heart and design various ways that other religions might be saved, but in the end, all is vanity.

Acts 4:12

• "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Hypocrisy and humanism does not the truth make. Neither does postulating on how unfair this system of salvation is based upon our own human idea of fairness. Better to simply surrender to the authority of God in realization, "Who are we to reply against God?" God is Sovereign and His judgments are righteous. Violation of His laws are dealt with according to His laws.

Romans 6:23

• "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Are we to say they are all going to hell just because they don't look at Jesus the way we do? No, we're to say they are going to hell because the wages of sin is death, all have sinned, and without Christ it is impossible to please God. But if they are good people, they don't need us to worry about them, for they have never sinned and don't have to worry about its wages.


"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[Stephanie]

 I think he was talking about people who are relatively good. You know, that are not thieves or violent or murderers. People, like for example the Monks in Tibet, who only want good for the world.

[billnjune]

I think he was talking about people who are relatively good. You know, that are not thieves or violent or murderers. People, like for example the Monks in Tibet, who only want good for the world.

This is exactly what everyone is trying to say.

You say good, but good according to whose standard?  Man’s or God’s standards.  We don’t get into heaven by man’s (your) standards but only by God’s standards.  We don’t get into heaven by being good but by being perfect (God’s standard).  We can strive to be perfect in ourselves (called Works) or we can be prefect by God’s grace alone (Grace is God giving us what we don’t deserve or “unmerited favor”). 

I hope this helps
Bill

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee;
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy riven side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure,
Save me from its guilt and power.

Not the labor of my hands
Can fulfill Thy law's demands;
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears forever flow,
All could never sin erase,
Thou must save, and save by grace.

Nothing in my hands I bring,
Simply to Thy cross I cling;
Naked, come to Thee for dress,
Helpless, look to Thee for grace:
Foul, I to the fountain fly,
Wash me, Savior, or I die.

While I draw this fleeting breath,
When mine eyes shall close in death,
When I soar to worlds unknown,
See Thee on Thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.

[Stephanie]

Hi Tony and Billnjune,
  I know that is true, but doesn't God allow for some who are worse than others. You wouldn't say a man who was a serial killer or who killed millions like Hitler, would be looked at the same as a monk in Tibet? Or would you?

[billnjune]

  I know that is true, but doesn't God allow for some who are worse than others. You wouldn't say a man who was a serial killer or who killed millions like Hitler, would be looked at the same as a monk in Tibet? Or would you?

Hi Stephanie,

It is true that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell for some more than others;

Luke 12:48  But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But, I don’t think that we can take any comfort in the fact that we will not be punished as much as someone else.  Remember that Hell is very bad and a little off of very bad is still very bad and not anywhere near being good or pleasant.

I like illustrations;
Let’s say that there is a line representing sin and on the far left sits Hitler and on the far right sits Jesus Christ with no sin at all.  Where on the line would you place yourself?  When I ask this question at the jail (that is amazing that those in who are incarcerated for crimes, would think of themselves as such good people), I usually end up with an answer somewhere in between but maybe close to the middle.  The problem is that we don’t realize how Holy that Jesus is and how sinful we are.  In comparison to the righteousness of God, our little sins are big in His sight.  We need to think of ourselves as very sinful before a righteous God, which would place us very close to Hitler, In fact, I would likely be sitting on Hitler’s lap, when put on the scale with a sinless and righteous God.  We need to be very careful when comparing ourselves with others.  We will not be judged in comparison to the works of others but of Jesus Christ’s righteousness alone.  If Christ has not fully paid for your sins then you will have to pay yourself, and that fact should cause us to fall down and beg God for forgiveness and to worship His Holy name, for He alone is good and would be completely just to send us to Hell for eternity. 

We might ask the question, “Is God fair?”  If God was fair and He would treat all the same then surely he would send us all to Hell, because we are all sinners and fallen short of the glory of God.  But, thank God, he is not fair, but that he is just and sent Jesus to pay for the sins of His people 

Matthew 1:21  "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

What a wonderful God that we have, Who has provided pardon for sins and that pardon can only be obtained through the work of Jesus Christ alone.  It just blows my mind, why an anyone would despise such a wonderful plan of Salvation, and seek for another way to heaven.

[Tony Warren]

>>>
 I think he was talking about people who are relatively good. You know, that are not thieves or violent or murderers. People, like for example the Monks in Tibet, who only want good for the world.
<<<

But that's the problem. Monks in Tibet are not good. And whether we like the politically incorrect language or not, their religion is Buddhism, which is another false doctrine "that cannot save." People cringe when you say that, but it is a Christian fact.

Sure, if it was up to mankind, they would save people based upon age, likes, dislikes, gender, pacifism, altruism, any number of biases or our humanistic sense of right and wrong. But our thoughts "inherently" are unrighteous, even though we presume they are well reasoned and just. The fact is, if they were really good people then God's not telling us the truth. And there would be no reason for them to desire a Saviour, because there would be no sin in them to be judged, thus no judgment to be saved from.

In reality, we don't need to ask why all these good people are going to be judged, we need to ask why they don't recognize their sin, forsake vanity and receive the mercy that Christ freely gives.

Matthew 7:7-8

• "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
• For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

The "real" reason is because they like going their own way, figuring things out for themselves, doing their own will rather than God's, and they don't want to give it up. Because their thoughts are not towards obedience to God.

Isaiah 55:7-9

• "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
• For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
• For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Judgment is not what we think it should be, but what God has decreed. Judgment is based upon man's sin, not "how much" evil he has not done. So that there are no good people according to God. There are no righteous people that "deserve" to be saved because they are better than the next person in man's eyes. No matter what we (in our humanistic thinking) might suppose, that is not how it works.

That there are good people is a well oiled myth perpetrated by Godless humanity to excuse himself. For any sin is cause for judgment, and all sin must be judged as a transgression of God's law.

1st John 3:4

• "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law[/i]."

1st Corinthians 15:56

• "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

Romands 6:23

• "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

If Billy Graham sins, if the Dalai Lama sins, if the Pope sins, if the Monks and Pastors sin, it is against God. And the cost/wages/payment for that sin is death. But note that God also in that context gives the good news (or gospel), which is  that the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So it is not God judging unrighteously, it is mankind rejecting the Covenant in favor of his own salvation plan. Whether that be Buddhism, Islam, Baha'i, Judaism, Universalism, Hinduism, Rastafarian or any of the various other attempts to formulate a god of man's own liking. It doesn't matter what the plan, they all fall miserably short because Not-A-One answers the sin question. How can we come before a Righteous God stained with sin, when the wages of sin is death? So the question isn't really one of fairness or righteousness, because we know God is righteous. It is a question of rebellion and refusal.

John 12:47-48

• "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
• He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

There then is the crux of the matter. The rejection of Christ and His words is not upon God, it is upon those doing the rejecting. They bear the responsibility and the judgment.

Are there degrees of judgment? Yes, some will be judged more harshly than others, but every idle word is subject to judgment. Every jot and tittle. Which means not one person will be found "Good."

"nosce te ipsum"
 

Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

[plowboy1534]

The fact is, if they were really good people then God's not telling us the truth.

That's right, Tony. Simply put, and irrefutable.

Romans 3

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I don't see how any Christian who holds to the Word of God as his authority could even waste any time considering this issue.

[Gerry]

Yes I agree with all that. But surely there are some good people in the world. Not righteous people, but people who are not evil by nature. For example, you wouldn't put murderers, child molesters and bank robbers in the same category of Mothers, policemen and Mahatma Gandhi. Compared to the murderers and thieves, these are good people.