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Author Topic: The Growing Apostasy in the Church  (Read 17069 times)

Joe Johnson

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2017, 04:41:45 AM »
Margaret,
  Excuse me but I just have to say that this site is perverting a lot of the doctrines of the conservative church. It's easy to see why bloggers like Tony Silva lists it under TheHeresyWatch. Before you go falling for this doctrine of calvinistic, replacement theology and spiritualization, you should talk to some Premillennial ministers about the deception of reformed and spiritual millennial theology and the way some people who speak cleverly deceive the church. This site isn't the end all on the topic of the end times and the apocalypse. May I suggest you pick up "Every Prophecy of the Bible: Clear Explanations for Uncertain Times" written by by John F. Walvoord and available to buy on Amazon. By everyone's opinion, John was the  preeminent authority on eschatology, Chancellor and Professor Emeritus of Systematic Theology, Dallas Theological Seminary. The best in the world for biblical studies. I hope you will consider it.

George

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2017, 09:40:16 AM »
 )Goodpoint(

Reformed Baptist

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #92 on: December 21, 2017, 11:02:54 AM »
Margaret,
  Excuse me but I just have to say that this site is perverting a lot of the doctrines of the conservative church. It's easy to see why bloggers like Tony Silva lists it under TheHeresyWatch.

Tony Silva? Tony's been banned from every (and I mean every) Reformed forum this side of PCA. Please! I recall him and Erik got in a argument because He taught we should all stop preaching now. So is that the best you can do? How about some scripture to show Dispensationalism is true? Because I don't care what you say, that is not conservatism, that's the new age distortions and part of the falling away. When you present scripture proving it, then I'll take Dispensationalism off my Heresy watch List.

Pearson

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #93 on: December 24, 2017, 06:44:37 PM »
Margaret,
 May I suggest you pick up "Every Prophecy of the Bible: Clear Explanations for Uncertain Times" written by by John F. Walvoord and available to buy on Amazon. By everyone's opinion, John was the  preeminent authority on eschatology,

[Soapbox mode on]

Everyone? I think you jest sir. No Bible believing Christian thinks that Walvoord was the preeminent authority on eschatology. That's a myth perpetrated by his disciples. He was a Dispensationalist, and that's all anyone needs to know about his knowledge of scripture.


Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

Melanie

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #94 on: December 25, 2017, 08:39:20 AM »
Margaret,
 By everyone's opinion, John was the  preeminent authority on eschatology,

[Soapbox mode on]

Everyone? I think you jest sir. No Bible believing Christian thinks that Walvoord was the preeminent authority on eschatology. That's a myth perpetrated by his disciples.

Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

)iagree(  And speaking of eschatology, has anyone seen a more complete, biblical, thorough and sound collection of eschatological writings by outstanding theologians assembled together in one place anywhere on the Internet? I search extensively and I haven't. Great job Tony Warren for your faithful resources concerning Israel, the kingdom and the end times.

Comprehensive Eschatology Section

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology.html

The Best!

Rich Aikers

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #95 on: December 25, 2017, 02:57:42 PM »
)iagree(  And speaking of eschatology, has anyone seen a more complete, biblical, thorough and sound collection of eschatological writings by outstanding theologians assembled together in one place anywhere on the Internet? I search extensively and I haven't. Great job Tony Warren for your faithful resources concerning Israel, the kingdom and the end times.

Comprehensive Eschatology Section

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology.html

The Best!

Yup!  The Best!

Spencer

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2018, 09:32:23 AM »

The Tipping Point: Common Grace, Worldliness, and the Growing Apostasy in the Church


I don't really hear a lot about the growing apostasy in the church, it seems to be a topic avoided by most theologians. But as far as what I see, there does seem to be a growing apostasy, one might even say a devastation of the old church. This scripture seems to apply. Am I wrong?

Revelation 13:14
"And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."


Emily

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #97 on: May 16, 2018, 01:09:08 PM »
No Remedy
By Chris M.

March 22, 2005
Jeremiah 52: 1-14

    Zedekiah was one and twenty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. And his motherís name was Hamutal the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah.

    And he did that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that Jehoiakim had done.

    For through the anger of the LORD it came to pass in Jerusalem and Judah, till he had cast them out from His presence, that Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.

    And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came, he and all his army, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it round about.

    So the city was besieged unto the eleventh year of king Zedekiah.

    And in the fourth month, in the ninth day of the month, the famine was sore in the city, so that there was no bread for the people of the land.

    Then the city was broken up, and all the men of war fled, and went forth out of the city by night by the way of the gate between the two walls, which was by the kingís garden; (now the Chaldeans were by the city round aboutJ and they went by the way of the plain.

    But the army of the Chaldeans pursued after the king, and overtook Zedekiah in the plains of Jericho; and all his army was scattered from him.

    Then they took the king, and carried him up unto the king of Babylon to Riblah in the land of Hamath; where he gave judgment upon him.

    And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes: he slew also all the princes of Judah in Riblah.

    Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him in chains, and carried him to Babylon, and put him in prison till the day of his death.

    Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem.

    And burned the house of the LORD, and the kingís house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:

    AND all the army of the Chaldeans, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down all the walls of Jerusalem round about.

WHERE IS THE DOCTRINE?

It is a mystery to me how theologians, pastors, and many teachers can write large volumes about theological issues from the Bible; and base these large books on a relatively few verses. For example, numerous books have been written about the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth; and their are really only a handful of verses that even speak directly to this issue (and those few verses are misunderstood).

What about the doctrine of God judging His church? How often have you heard theologians discuss this issue? How often have you heard sermons preached on this topic?

We really have to wonder-----------why we have not heard more, a great deal more about the biblical doctrine of God judging His people?

After all, if there was only the single reference in 1 Peter 4:17 (that judgment must first begin at the house of God); then we could understand why the theologians and pastors have ignored this doctrine. But my friends, we do not only have 1 Peter 4:17 to support the teaching that God will judge His church. No, we have much more: for example (this is not a comprehensive list):

The whole book of Jeremiah (52 chapters) is largely focused on the fact that God judges His church. Also obviously: Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea deal with the judgment of God upon an apostate people.

But so do other books as well: 1 & 2 Kings. 1 & 2 Chronicles: Ezra, Nehemiah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, Haggai, Zephaniah, Amos, etc.

In the New Testament we find that portions of the gospels, Acts, Hebrews, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, Jude, and Revelation clearly point to the biblical teaching that God will judge (without fail) a people that call themselves by His Name but live without faith.

A very conservative estimate would be----------that a good 1/3 of the whole Bible has as a major theme (and therefore it ought to be a MAJOR DOCTRINE) the undeniable fact that God brings judgment on an APOSTATE CHURCH.

God brought judgment on National Israel. He first judged the 10 tribes in the north; and He then judged the land of Judah in the south. God tells us in the early chapters of the book of Revelation that this pattern continues in the New Testament. When a church of Jesus Christ becomes unfaithful in its teachings; then God removes the candlestick of truth (see Revelation 2 & 3).

Letís turn to the book of Jeremiah in order that we might understand what it was exactly that brought the severe judgment of God upon the ancient nation of Judah; and since God reveals to us that the Old Testament church, National Israel, was an example and a pattern of the New Testament church: we can then better understand why the judgment of God falls upon the New Testament church. Please turn to the book of Jeremiah, chapter 5:

    They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.

    Shall I not visit for these things? Saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

    A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

    THE PROPHETS PROPHESY FALSELY, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Why did God give His people over into the hands of a wicked nation such as Babylon? Why did God exalt a wicked king such as Nebuchadrezzar over the nation of Judah? Why did God allow the king of Judah to become a blind captive of Nebuchadrezzar? Why did God permit the captain of Babylonís guard to break the walls of Jerusalem? And how could it be that God would ever allow-----the temple of the LORD to be burnt with fire?

The answer is: because Judah suffered false prophets; and did not believe the true prophets. Look at:

Jeremiah 6:13

For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

Jeremiah 7:28

But thou shalt say unto them, this is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

Jeremiah 12:10

Many PASTORS have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jeremiah 14:14

Then the LORD said unto me, the prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of the heart.

The biggest problem with preaching a sermon on this topic is narrowing down the super abundance of verses to look at: letís look at a couple more:

Jeremiah 23:1

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! Saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:14-17, 21, 31,32,36

    I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

    Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts, hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

    They say still unto them that despise me, the LORD hath said , ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, no evil shall come upon you.

    I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

    Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

    Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all.

    And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every manís word shall be his burden; for ye have PERVERTED THE WORDS OF THE LIVING GOD,ÖÖ..

     

Why did God judge His people in Judah?

The answer is because they perverted the gospel of the Bible. They perverted the Word of God.

But what about us today? What about our churches today? What about those theologians and teachers within the churches that have prophesied the Word of God to the people of God in our day: have we (the church) been faithful?

If we were to travel through the land on any given Sunday what would we hear issuing forth from the Sunday school classrooms; and from the pulpits?

The words of Jeremiah are more true today than they were of the people of Judah. Truly, the prophets are prophesying lies each Sunday in the name of the LORD.

Where is it that they are lying? On what verse do they exaggerate the truth?

Friends, you know as well as I do--------that the real question is: what verse is it that they do not lie?

They do not speak the words of truth regarding the role of women in the churches. They do not speak the truth regarding the qualifications of deacons and elders: they do not speak the truth regarding the unbreakable binding of the marriage relationship.

False proclamations are given to the poor people of the congregations regarding the most serious of biblical teachings: on repentance, on faith, and on salvation.

Surely, as we scan the corporate church; and stretch our gaze across the wide horizon of churches: we can agree with Jeremiah that a "wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falselyÖ".

 

BACK TO EGYPT

It gets worse. We go on to read in Jeremiah 5:31 that after the prophets prophesy falsely: "Ö.the priests bear rule by their meansÖ". We also read about how the spiritual leaders of Israel ruled over their flock in Ezekiel, chapter 34:

    Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, thus saith the LORD GOD unto the shepherds; woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

    Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

    The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with FORCE AND WITH CRUELTY HAVE YE RULED THEM.

Here in Ezekiel, God is speaking to the same issue that we have been reading about in Jeremiah: false teachers that destroy His people with their teachings. And remember in Jeremiah 5:31 we saw that the priests accept the false teachings of the false prophets; and then go about to establish rules regarding these teachings that supposedly have come from God.

It is very significant that God describes the spiritual rule established by false doctrine, as spiritual rule that is full of force and cruelty. The Hebrew word cruelty is interesting: it is only translated here in Ezekiel 34 as "cruelty". It is otherwise translated as: "rigour". For example, turn to the book of Exodus:

    And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with RIGOUR (or cruelty).

    And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service, wherein they made them serve, was with RIGOUR.

By using the word "cruelty" in Ezekiel 34:4, God is letting us know that when the leaders in the churches are speaking falsehoods; and the priests (or spiritual leaders) are then establishing doctrines according to their lies; then the people of that church have in effect been taken back to Egypt. Egypt, in the Bible, typifies a place of spiritual bondage. Of being in captivity to sin and to Satan.

When the truth of Godís Word is not being proclaimed in the churches, then great numbers of people are not being delivered from their sins. They remain in the congregation of the dead. They remain spiritual slaves.

In order that we do not miss this point, God emphasizes this truth once again in the only other place that we find this word rigour: in the book no Leviticus, chapter 25:

    For they are my servants, which I brought forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT: they shall not be sold as bondmen.

    Thou shalt not RULE OVER HIM WITH RIGOUR; but shalt fear thy God.

First, God points out that He has mercifully delivered these souls out of Egypt; then in verse 43, God strongly implies that when one rules over a soul with "rigour (our word)" then it is as though that soul has gone back into hard bondage.

My friends, I hate to say it; but the truth is that a great number of churches today (Sunday after Sunday) are leading their people deeper and deeper into bondage to sin. Many of the deacons, the elders, and the pastors, are fulfilling the role of taskmaster in ruling over slaves with cruelty.

God warned us that He would do this, turn to the last verse of the 28th chapter of Deuteronomy:

    And the LORD shall BRING THEE INTO EGYPT AGAIN WITH SHIPS, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

Once we understand that the reference to ships in the above verse is spiritually pointing to the corporate church (remember the ship often typifies the church): then we can understand this verse much easier.

God is going to judge the end time corporate church by allowing Satan to gain victory after victory against it. God is going to take away the candlestick of truth from the church; and this is akin to the walls of Jerusalem falling down; and to the temple of the Lord being burnt with fire.

Satan will be permitted to come against the church with false prophets who will deceive the people within the congregations and enslave them into even greater spiritual bondage.

The wonderful and horrible thing that has been committed in the land is this: the churches where a spiritually poor soul could perhaps once find refuge from the storm and find fellowship as like minded believers sailed the same course of faith to the distant shore--------these churches (or ships) are now busy sailing souls BACK TO EGYPT.

By the way, the last phrase in verse 68 is also significant: "Öand no man shall buy you."

This is reference to the Lord Jesus Christ: Christ purchased the corporate church (see 2 Peter 2:1) when He died for the sins of His people. But towards the end, when judgment begins at the house of God; and the churches are falling away (or returning to Egypt): at that time, Christ will not rescue them again. He will not die a second time to corporately establish this rebellious people.

 

THE PEOPLE

I have quoted from a lot of Bible verses in order to show that it is not me who is pointing the finger at the deacons, elders, pastors. But it is God Himself who declares that these spiritual leaders are ruling improperly.

I myself, try my best not to offend; but to allow the Word of God to be the offense. And in the verse in front of us this evening: we have a verse that is guaranteed to offend--------everyone.

It is fairly easy for us to look at the sad condition of the church today and point at the leaders as the ones who ought to know better; but, God understands the true nature of the problem better than anyone, and He says in Jeremiah 5:31:

"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; AND MY PEOPLE LOVE TO HAVE IT SO: and what will ye do in the end thereof?"

Why would the people of God (corporately) love to have false prophets speak lies; and for rules to be established thereby?

The only answer that I can think of is that when a teacher is declaring something false from the Word of God, then this is sin. And whatever rule (or doctrine) that is then established by the leaders of the church, based on these lies, is also sin. And unsaved people love their sins.

I know that many of us have thought after hearing a person tenaciously hold to a doctrine that we know to be false: "well, he sure is convicted on that point".

No! He is not truly convicted on that point: he simply is clinging onto his sin. He will hold that false doctrine to the death (unless God change him): just like an alcoholic will cling to the bottle.

 

The teachers are speaking lies. Those in authority are establishing doctrines based on the lies; and the people are not troubled but greatly pleased. What will God do? What does the biblical history tell us about what God will do? Finally, turn over to 2 Chronicles 36:

    But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was NO REMEDY.

Letís compare this verse above with another verse which should bring fear into any sinnerís heart who continues to fall into the same sin time after time, even after God has patiently corrected him. Go to Proverbs 29:

He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall SUDDENLY BE DESTROYED, and that WITHOUT REMEDY.


Sojourner

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #98 on: May 16, 2018, 03:14:53 PM »
 )GoodPopst(

Doug Johnson

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2018, 10:20:52 AM »

There is no evidence that the church will stumble and fall. The church will stand until Christ returns because it is built upon a rock and cannot be moved. The thousands of false Protestant churches will fall but the Roman Catholic Church is the one true holy apostolic church that cannot fall. It is the oldest and original Christian Church, therefore, the beliefs and teachings of the Church were directly passed onto the leaders of the Catholic Church by the apostles with power wherein it cannot fall. 

George

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #100 on: August 14, 2018, 11:44:05 AM »
Roman Catholicism isn't the answer, but neither is Amillennialism. But the fact that the Premillennial church has grown bigger than all other churches is proof that there is no growing apostasy. In fact, it is the Premillennialists who were critical to bringing a leader to the white house that uphold Christian values, will end abortions and has already made the courts more conservative. Growing apostasy my foot.

billnjune

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2018, 12:50:21 PM »
George, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

If you are going to follow the popularity of a doctrine then you can be assured that you are deceived.  Following the Bible alone is your only hope!

Bill

The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

George

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #102 on: August 14, 2018, 08:13:31 PM »
You are wrong my friend. I am right.

Herman Stowe

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2018, 09:54:09 PM »
If you think there is no growing apostasy in the church, you're not only wrong, but probably a big part of the reason for it. It's those who cannot see it that are mostly responsible for it. They are blind to what is improper and graceless.

Tony Warren

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Re: The Growing Apostasy in the Church
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2018, 01:31:47 PM »
>>>
But the fact that the Premillennial church has grown bigger than all other churches is proof that there is no growing apostasy.
<<<

The two largest growth of professing Christian church groups was indeed Roman Catholicism and Premillennialism. If that wasn't reason enough for faithful Christians to recognize the growing apostasy in the church, the decline of following faithful precepts should have been. Indeed, the decline or falling away from orthodox, Bile based Christianity is a given.

Luke 16:15
  • "And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

That kind of puffed up attitude of "we're still a great and righteous people" is typical of a decline and was characteristic of national Israel's fall. See Israel at Christ's first advent so assured of their salvation and righteousness.  Indeed there are likewise many attending church today that attempt to enter in at the wide gate with the road way, but that way leads to destruction. It is the few who enter in at the strait and narrow (restrictive) gate, which is the only way that leads to life, who are secure. Meaning simply because there are many Premillennial churches is "no proof" there isn't apostasy.

For the record, actual proof that there isn't a growing apostasy would be Christians moving towards more faithfulness and obedience to God's word, not less. i.e., less Christians marrying unbelievers, less offense and division, less worldliness in church, less fornication, less deceit and backslidding, less divorce, less women Ministers, less empty pews in faithful Churches, etc., etc.


Quote
>>>
Growing apostasy my foot.
<<<

Mark 9:45
  • "And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

Many a person's foot has caused himn to stumle, and he has refused to see it for what it was and cut it off. Nothing new under the sun.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


 


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