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Author Topic: When Should A Christian Apologize?  (Read 32396 times)

Rose

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2009, 04:27:06 PM »

HOWEVER, the rest of his response seems to further defend himself RATHER than to be sincerely apologetic.  (Am I the only one to sense this?)

It 'seems' he is "offended" by being told he offended people...


I think we all noticed. It was somewhat disappointing that it was obviously a half-hearted apology, as he seems to blame those he offended, for being offended. I agree, why apologize then if that's how you feel. It sounds like a big case of hurt pride, but I think we are all ready to move on. I think I'll use it to better myself, instead of condemning others. People are what they are, and like I said before, we all have pride. So I'm not going to throw stones. But yeah, I think it's hard not to notice it.

When should a Christian apologize? Only when it's heart felt.


"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

Mitchell

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2009, 06:49:07 AM »
Some apologies are weak, seem forced and qualified because for many, it is a dirty word. And unfortunately, some Christians are molded in the form of the Pharisee. For the Pharisee, the apology can never be heart-felt or without qualification because he would feel that it takes away from his virtue to do so. It's like confessing, "I'm a sinner," which will never do. Not without qualification of someone else being a sinner too. The more noble Christian realizes that a heart-felt Christian apology actually shows the virtue of Christ in them, rather than take away from any virtue that they think they might have. Observe that to the prideful, humility is just a word to be read in the scripture, but not to be put into practice within the Church. It practical application, it means nothing in their daily walk with God. The Christian Pharisee today spends his time looking for the sin in others, that he may couch his apology to minimize the sin in himself.

My view is, if we can apologize for mistaking one person for someone else, or apologize for placing a post in a wrong thread, or apologize for a typo or for misspelled words, surely we can apologize for offending another Christian. If we refuse to apologize for offending a brother or sister in Christ in more weightier matters, what does that say about us as a Christian who is supposed to have love and charity for each other?

 Matt. 5:23-24
  "Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
  Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."

So I read that apology is an integral part of Christianity. And from what I'm reading, with few exceptions, I think that the majority of us are in total agreement on this. God's word says confess our faults one to another. And not just for typos and errant posts, but in more important things. As a body, we should cast aside our pride, and for the good of the whole, make sacrifices that benefit all. Consider these passages which I think are tremendously inspiring.

1 Cor. 12:24-27
 "For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
 
Whether one member suffers by an offense, all the members suffer by it. If indeed we are a true body, that is how it works. That's why I think we are basically coming together on this topic. Because we all feel the pain of suffering to some degree. A Christian should apologize to another whenever he has in any way wronged him. It is required by scripture. In fact, the sun shouldn't go down except we have left off our prayers to God, and first be reconciled to our brother, and then we can come and offer in good conscience towards the God of forgiveness.


Drew

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2009, 12:29:42 PM »
Hey Reformer. I noticed that you were one of the few who didn't comment on this thread. I wonder why? What's your stand on this issue of apology?  :)


judykanova

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2009, 10:59:29 PM »

HOWEVER, the rest of his response seems to further defend himself RATHER than to be sincerely apologetic.  (Am I the only one to sense this?)

It 'seems' he is "offended" by being told he offended people...


I think we all noticed. It was somewhat disappointing that it was obviously a half-hearted apology, as he seems to blame those he offended, for being offended. I agree, why apologize then if that's how you feel. It sounds like a big case of hurt pride, but I think we are all ready to move on. I think I'll use it to better myself, instead of condemning others. People are what they are, and like I said before, we all have pride. So I'm not going to throw stones. But yeah, I think it's hard not to notice it.

When should a Christian apologize? Only when it's heart felt.





HOWEVER, the rest of his response seems to further defend himself RATHER than to be sincerely apologetic.  (Am I the only one to sense this?)

It 'seems' he is "offended" by being told he offended people...


I think we all noticed. It was somewhat disappointing that it was obviously a half-hearted apology, as he seems to blame those he offended, for being offended. I agree, why apologize then if that's how you feel. It sounds like a big case of hurt pride, but I think we are all ready to move on. I think I'll use it to better myself, instead of condemning others. People are what they are, and like I said before, we all have pride. So I'm not going to throw stones. But yeah, I think it's hard not to notice it.

When should a Christian apologize? Only when it's heart felt.



We should have "moved on" long before now, with the apology.  Only God sees the heart and I find if very disturbing that some feel the need to decide whether an apology is sincere or not. That's not our place.  I figured this would be the response of some who take no part of the responsibility for the misunderstanding that occured, and would rather promote contention rather than reconcilation.

You're alsolutely right Rose, about the benefit of looking in the mirror and considering our own ways.   It certainly doesn't promote apologies/reconciliation when we behave as the world does in this regard.

Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


judy

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Drew

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2009, 05:00:00 AM »
We should have "moved on" long before now, with the apology.  Only God sees the heart and I find if very disturbing that some feel the need to decide whether an apology is sincere or not. That's not our place.

That comment makes no sense, but is what we would "expect" from someone who thought the offending comments against Baptists by John and Penne were perfectly fine from the beginning. One of the few who thought so, by the way. So your continued support of such obvious causes of offense does not go without notice.

However, the title of this thread is when should a Christian apologize. So in spite of your being so called "disturbed" that we would even discuss the matter, it is a legitimate topic. Funny how you can be disturbed by this Christian discussion that has edified so many here, but not be disturbed by John and Penne's offense. Curiously, you have ignored the many scriptures given, including..
 Mt 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.


Quote
  I figured this would be the response of some who take no part of the responsibility for the misunderstanding that occured, and would rather promote contention manner rather than reconcilation.

Here we have again, the usual suspect, defending the indefensible. Why should baptists be made the brunk of jokes and horrible generalizations. Misunderstandings?

"Why? Did you think a Christian was someone who doesn't dance, smoke, or drink and attends Sunday service? Those are Baptists, and if a bake sale, Lutherans."

"We all know different denominations are known for certain distinguishing characteristics.  The last Baptist church I attended was just as bad as the Pentecostal and catholic church in their teachings.   Thereís not a nickelís worth of difference between them if you ask me, lost is still lost."

These aren't misunderstandings, they are offenses to Baptists, and obviously to the majority of the Christian community here. The "Click" you are in, notwithstanding. Even Reformer can see that! I believe even Tony Warren was offended by some of the things said. So we have every right, and indeed the Christian obligation to discuss if off-color comments like these should be apologized for. How about if we change the word Baptist to Mexicans, would you be offended then? How about if it said, "We all know different races are known for certain distinguishing characteristics. Thereís not a nickelís worth of difference between them if you ask me, lost is still lost." Would that be offensive then? If it is, then from a Christian, an apology is in order. And Christians are free to debate if it is. You aren't moderator here, though you have tried to be. the contention here was brought about by stubborn pride, not by me.

I think Christians should be offended by your implication that the 99 percent of Christians here who clearly believe an apology was in order, should take part of the responsibility for the misunderstanding that occurred, and would rather promote contention manner rather than reconciliation. What a foolish thing to say. Let me name a few of the people who have commented on this issue along with me. maybe you should go back and read the thread. Most of these Christians and I have never gotten along doctrinally, but we are in agreement on apology. Shirley, Kenneth White, Soldier, Reformed Baptist, Amy Lineal, Diane Moody , Jimmy, Terrell Meyer, Granny, Pearson with his two cents,  Bunyan, Reformer (Sorry Reformer for my previous post, I see you have commented), Rose, Colleen, Doug Johnson , Nikki and Mitchell. To imply these are all trouble makers who should just have shut up long ago is sad. You don't have a let to stand on. It is clear you want to make this about me, but clearly the majority don't think so. It is about Christian behavior. So you can attempt to cover up for the "click" if you want, but I am not the only one who reads scripture and understands when a Christian offends another Christian, they should apologize. And they should do so without ranting on about the offended party being the one to blame. Most Christians agree. It's a matter of pride or a matter of humility. You blame me for this contention, not the offending comments or the prideful response. But let's see what the scripture says.

 Proverbs 13:10  Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

 The contention came with pride. The pride of one offering no apology for obvious offences, and the other giving a half-apology on one line, and then ranting on with 30 lines blaming the Baptists offended by these comments.


Quote
You're alsolutely right Rose, about the benefit of looking in the mirror and considering our own ways.   It certainly doesn't promote apologies/reconciliation when we behave as the world does in this regard.


Rose is not in agreement with you, but you take her comments out of context so it would appear so. Rose believes an apology was in order. Rose was disappointed in the half-hearted apology. So she's one of the Christians you accuse of judging another man's heart. So you see, your blind support of these comments is not shared by the majority of Christians here.

By the way, we could have moved on if there was a one line apology. That part you leave out. Because you want us to ignore the 30 lines that followed the apology and just shut up. While Rose is obviously ready to move on, it is not because she supports your blind support of your friends offenses as you do. All good Christians recognized it required an apology.

...you didn't!


Quote
Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

judy

 Does that make you a hypocrite for judging me and my motives as you accuse all these others who have commented. For your information darling, the majority of posts here are not mine. So don't try to make this about me, or about judging. It is about what should be proper Christian behavior.

Rich Aikers

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2009, 09:16:04 AM »

I think we all noticed. It was somewhat disappointing that it was obviously a half-hearted apology, as he seems to blame those he offended, for being offended. I agree, why apologize then if that's how you feel. It sounds like a big case of hurt pride, but I think we are all ready to move on. I think I'll use it to better myself, instead of condemning others. People are what they are, and like I said before, we all have pride. So I'm not going to throw stones. But yeah, I think it's hard not to notice it.

When should a Christian apologize? Only when it's heart felt.


We should have "moved on" long before now, with the apology.  Only God sees the heart and I find if very disturbing that some feel the need to decide whether an apology is sincere or not. That's not our place.



With all due respect Judy, that wasn't so much an apology as it was a charge that the ones apologized to were at fault for being offended. I don't have to be a court judge to know that, it was quite obvious. And again, with all due respect, we don't have to decide whether an apology was sincere or not to know that he was blaming the people who were offended. You can close your eyes to that fact if you like, but it is a fact. Speaking of judge, all those words belong to him. Including the original ones about Baptists. I don't agree with Drew's doctrines, I think few of us do, but right is right no matter who is making the good points.

 Psalm 119:30
  "I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me."
 
Maybe it is time to move on, but it is not up to you to decide when a discussion about Christian behavior has run its course. Just as right is right, likewise, wrong is wrong. Even when done by your friends and mine.

 Psalm 119:62
  "At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments."

As his judgments are right, we must seek to make right judgments as well.  Not based on friendship, but on what actually is right and wrong. Seems you just may have forgotten that.


Lieberman

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2009, 11:09:53 AM »
I'm relatively new here judging by the dates on some of the members here. But I will have something to say also. This is not in reference to any Christian in particular, but principles in general. It seems to me that the whole point of an apology is to accept some responsibility for some offense committed? Correct? I think all rational people would agree on that. A Christian apology (as opposed to non-Christian apologies) should not be an exercise of passing the blame off on the Christians that you are apologizing to. I don't get it. It seems so simple to me, but Christians seem to make everything so complicated. I mean, we can't just say I'm sorry and move on? Why do we have to pass off the blame on to the ones apologized to? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of an apology?

A Christian apology is meant to bring the offended party back in union with the offender. Am I Correct? But to go about casting blame on the offended, for being offended, hardly does that. I mean if we are talking about Christian principles in humility and not worldly principles in pride. We would expect worldly people not to be humble, but shouldn't we expect just a little more from Christians? And particularly from Christians who respect the Bible and its principles. Are we not flattering ourselves when we apologize stipulating that the responsibility was really on the Baptists who were offended? This scripture comes to mind.

 Psalms 12:3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
 4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
 5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Is our tongue our own? Who is Lord over us? The Lord of pride and ego, or the Lord of humility and grace. Is it "I apologize for offending you," or is it "I apologize for offending you, but actually you are more responsible for being offended in the first place." You decide!

So, if I am disturbed, I'm disturbed by the lack of humility, not that Reformed Baptists felt slighted by generalizations and unkind remarks, or by humor made at their expense. That's not what disturbs me.


Pamela

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2009, 12:58:00 PM »
Lieberman,

I really liked your post.  Thank you.

I apologize for taking things so lightly.  I have learned to laugh at "Baptist" jokes, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like me. 

In the two Baptist churches I have been in, even the pastors joked about Baptists!  But again...not everyone feels the same about this, and I will say that I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

God bless,
Pam




Lieberman

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2009, 03:53:30 PM »
Lieberman,

I really liked your post.  Thank you.

I apologize for taking things so lightly.  I have learned to laugh at "Baptist" jokes, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like me. 


Thanks Pam. And I think that's all we're saying. Everyone's not alike and it's not going to hurt "any Christian" to apologize. Simple as that. Nothing more complicated. You are blessed sister.

judykanova

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2009, 10:02:25 PM »
We should have "moved on" long before now, with the apology.  Only God sees the heart and I find if very disturbing that some feel the need to decide whether an apology is sincere or not. That's not our place.

That comment makes no sense, but is what we would "expect" from someone who thought the offending comments against Baptists by John and Penne were perfectly fine from the beginning. One of the few who thought so, by the way. So your continued support of such obvious causes of offense does not go without notice.

However, the title of this thread is when should a Christian apologize. So in spite of your being so called "disturbed" that we would even discuss the matter, it is a legitimate topic. Funny how you can be disturbed by this Christian discussion that has edified so many here, but not be disturbed by John and Penne's offense. Curiously, you have ignored the many scriptures given, including..
 Mt 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.



I don't mind your disagreeing with me -- namely that you think the apology given was not sincere, while I think that's not our place to judge.  However, I do mind your distortion of the facts.  I said nothing in reference to or defense of Penn's post.  I also in no way said nor implied that this topic  is not worth discussing.  

There is a flip side to when an apology is made, and that is our response to it, which is what my post was all about.

Consider:

Mat 6
14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Pro 24
17  Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
18  Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.


Lastly, I never said that Rose agreed with me.  I said that I agreed with her statement regarding self-reflection.  I also made no reference at all to you.

I don't post based on popular opinion, or fear of man, but rather based on my on convictions.  I would ask that you do the same without resorting to distortions of the facts or personal attacks.
In my opinion that is more offensive than a bad joke.

judy


'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Drew

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2009, 09:03:55 AM »
I don't mind your disagreeing with me

Clearly, that's not really true.

 2 Peter 1:7 & 8 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Quote
-- namely that you think the apology given was not sincere..

I have good reading comprehension. How about you? There were approximately 39 "WORDS" saying I apologize. Followed by 60 "LINES" (that's Lines) of blaming the Baptists for being offended and others for commenting on it because we all were the real problem. So, talk about distortion! If that was sincere, I'm Davey Crocket!


Quote
However, I do mind your distortion of the facts.  I said nothing in reference to or defense of Penn's post.

Who's Penn? You mean Penne? You didn't say Penne's post was offensive to baptists. Everyone else did because they are honest, but you didn't. No, you don't say much of anything, except to defend John and tell Christians when they have posted enough on a topic. 

Anyway, I went back over your posts (including the post in "what does it mean to be a Christian") and EVERY ONE is either in defense of John's comments, whining about us not having a sense of humor, calling those posting trouble makers or claiming the discussion has gone on long enough. Not once is there any admission of offensive language by anyone, including Penne's comments. Which would lead intelligent people to believe you think these type comments made by the two are no big deal and we should just "get over it," (just as your BFF John thinks they are). So we can "SURMISE" not only were you not offended, you want everyone else who was, to just shut up. Clearly!


Quote
There is a flip side to when an apology is made, and that is our response to it, which is what my post was all about.

No,no. What your post in effect says is, "Shut Up, enough already!!!!!" You're like a broken record. Here's just one of your posts, and Reformed Baptist's reply to it. Is he the trouble makers you claim is only out to cause contention? Speak up, or forever hold your peace.



Judy:
But to zero in on only this, take offense, and ignore the rest/core of what's been said, would be a lost opportunity to possibly broaden understanding of what being a true Christian is -- based on biblical principles and not man-made traditions.   

Reformed Baptist:
 Hi Judy,
  Of course we're zeroing in on this aspect of what was said, since this is the part of the post we have a problem with. People zero in on certain parts of posts all the time, including you, this isn't something new. It doesn't mean we don't get the rest of it. We comment on the part that troubles us.


You see, clearly you want us to ignore the offense and pretend as if it didn't happen. Just as you're doing now. Flip side of an apology? You mean the diatribe of blaming the Baptists for being offended and anyone else who commented as causing contention? That one?  You said "lost opportunity to possibly broaden understanding of what being a true Christian is." Do you have any idea? It is not absolving John or Penne of responsibility, nor of shoving truths under a rub so your friends aren't accountable to God. Based on your own not man-made traditions.   


Quote
Lastly, I never said that Rose agreed with me.  I said that I agreed with her statement regarding self-reflection.


Yet you didn't self-reflect on your own behavior. Christians don't sweep issues under a rub, they deal with them honestly. And also, there was only one perfect man, and it ain't John. He showed that much with his half-hearted apology. And Rose agrees. So while you pick little parts out of her post and distort them, read her whole post. All of them!


Quote
I also made no reference at all to you.

LOL.  Oh yeah, right! You were really talking about Rose, Reformed Baptist, Lieberman, Reformer, John and the rest of your friends. Right? There are only a limited number of people who posted, so don't play that game with me. Are those the trouble makers you were talking about? You must think people are stupid. Of course both you (and John) were calling me the person seeking to cause contention. Just the fact that you are denying it is incredible. Why not be honest, who were you talking about? Tony Warren, Pamela, Jimmy, Colleen, Nikki, Pearson, No? ....that leaves only me and Penne doesn't it? ...Oh, you were talking about Penne? Silly me.

And speaking of Penne, the worst of the offenders against Baptists, she/he seems to have suffered a sudden severe case of laryngitis after insulting Baptists so bad EVEN TONY WARREN had to intervene. No apologies there either from that outstanding Christian. Oh well, I guess we are starting to see people's true colors.

Forgiveness you say? That's a good word. So is repentance. They go hand in hand, JUDY


Kirk

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2009, 10:57:17 AM »
Most of you make good points, including Judy. To John I would only say,  I have never been a big fan of the "yes, but" apology. For one reason. It simply doesn't do what an apology is intended to do. Wouldn't you agree?

beelsls

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2009, 11:52:55 AM »
Quote from Penne
I canít believe this conversation has lasted this long.  I guess that poor horse needs a few more stripes.  We all know different denominations are known for certain distinguishing characteristics.  The last Baptist church I attended was just as bad as the Pentecostal and catholic church in their teachings.   Thereís not a nickelís worth of difference between them if you ask me, lost is still lost. 
Why is it, for those who demand an apology, forget to forgive?
Mark 11:26
  "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

I see Penne stating what she believes and for that she owes no one an apology. My wife and I attended a Baptist Church and afterwards spoke with the pastor regarding his free will sermon. He called us ďFIVE POINT CALVINESTSĒ and walked away. I expect and desire no apology from him.

When Godís Elect get to heaven they will only be speaking of Godís true church, not any man made denomination.

Iím sure there are some Baptist Churches teaching the truth but most are not. Thatís why most of Godís Elect donít attend a church.

Mr 13:14   ∂ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:      

His Will Be Done!
His Will Be Done

Bill

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2009, 12:28:42 PM »

Iím sure there are some Baptist Churches teaching the truth but most are not.

How do you know this?  How many Baptist Churches have you been to?  In how many cities and in how many states?  In other countries?


Thatís why most of Godís Elect donít attend a church.


How do you know this?  Do you have a link to a survey or poll? 

Please don't be offended by my questions, okay?  I'm just asking for clarification because making assertions without evidence is sinful.  But, if you qualify your statements with "in my opinion" then no offense has been made.

Thanks in advance for your response.   


Tony Warren

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Re: When Should A Christian Apologize?
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2009, 05:17:51 PM »
>>>
My wife and I attended a Baptist Church and afterwards spoke with the pastor regarding his free will sermon. He called us ďFIVE POINT CALVINESTSĒ and walked away.
<<<

Wonderful, you attended a Baptist Church. What has that to do with the price of Bananas? I talked to a Reformed pastor about the kingdom, and he told me that was foolish and proceeded to speak of the golden Utopia on earth to come, and then went his way.

...what has that to do with the price of Bananas?

Do I now lump all Reformed Christians into this group and start bashing them? It's logic like this that baffles me. Always has. Always will.

By the way, most of the "Baptists" I've come across "in this forum" (some of whom attend Church) are Biblical, moral and honest in their dealing with scripture.. And they don't deserve to have to listen to this nonsense from a few Christians seeking to show how righteous they are..


Quote
>>>
I see Penne stating what she believes and for that she owes no one an apology.
<<<


Obviously that's what she believes. Which is her right.


Quote
>>>
When Godís Elect get to heaven they will only be speaking of Godís true church, not any man made denomination.

Iím sure there are some Baptist Churches teaching the truth but most are not.
<<<

Most of "ANY" Church denomination is not speaking the truth these days, including he REFORMED, so this has nothing whatsoever to do with Baptists! So I say once again for the benefit of the truly hard of hearing. There will be no Baptist Christian bashing in this forum. ...Period! We debate doctrines here, not bash or ridicule the Christians of different denominations. If you cannot abide by these rules, then do not post in the forum.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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