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Author Topic: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling  (Read 4511 times)

Melanie

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 03:35:59 AM »
In other words, put water on him, symbolic of washing away sin. Christ instituted this ordinance of baptism as a symbol of washing away sin, not of submerging.

 Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Isaiah was the book Philip was reading, was it not? He wasan't reading about dipping many nations, but of cleansing by the use of water.


 Thus the correct mode of baptism is sprinkling. Which is what our Church does!

No, the correct mode of Baptism or washing is by the Holy Spirit, signified by immersion, washing, pouring or sprinkling. There is no efficacy in water so we need to stop straining at a gnat before we swallow a Camel.

Chicago Bear

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 03:07:59 PM »
I prefer Sprinkling because that's what the Bible most often uses for spiritual cleansing, but you are right. It doesn't really matter. They are all a sign of the real cleansing of baptism.+
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Lieberman

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 06:31:32 PM »
I prefer Sprinkling because that's what the Bible most often uses for spiritual cleansing, but you are right. It doesn't really matter. They are all a sign of the real cleansing of baptism.+

I agree. Also pouring because that is also used to represent the baptism of the holy Spirit.

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

I don't know any verse that says immersion of the Holy Spirit.

Red

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 03:52:20 PM »
I prefer Sprinkling
It is not what we prefer, but what saith the word of God, is all that we should be concerned with. Immersion in water is the only true biblical position, even though I will admit that godly men in the past would disagree with me, and would even take issue with me, and that's okay, for we should only speak according to the word of God.

Please consider:
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 15:29~"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
I have yet to see a person who believes in sprinkling intrepert this passage of scripture correctly. Paul is reasoning with those at Corinth that said there is no resurrection of the body. If it is so that there is no resurrection of the dead, then why were you baptized IF the dead rise not~at water baptism one of the doctrines that we are professing to believe in is that we believe in a FUTURE resurrection of our body, just as Christ arose from the dead, we shall also come forth from the grave with a new glorified body, just like Jesus'.

Sprinkling cannot show forth this truth, ONLY being buried in the water out of sight and rise out of the watery grave can it show forth a bodily resurrection.   
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

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Pilgrim

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2019, 02:27:21 AM »
Not that I take the words of men over God, but the faithful Protestant Church (minus Baptists) has always believed that immersion was never the only Christian mode of baptism, and they studied the scriptures very carefully. Even the Westminster confession of faith, states:

Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person. -XXVIII:III.

That's not the word of God but it's very biblical when I look at the scriptures as a whole and not with tunnel vision.
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

Tony Warren

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2019, 06:45:48 AM »
>>>
I prefer Sprinkling

It is not what we prefer, but what saith the word of God, is all that we should be concerned with.
<<<

That was "exactly" what he was saying since his quote was actually "I prefer Sprinkling because that's what the Bible most often uses for spiritual cleansing.." Spiritual cleansing is what baptism in water signifies.  I prefer sprinkling over immersion also, and for the exact same reason. This is what God's unadulterated word most often uses as a token for the spiritual ablution, which Baptism symbolizes. If it's good enough for God to sprinkle and use it to represent the efficacy of the finished work of Christ, it's good enough for me.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
  • "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
  • A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
  • And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

THIS, is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the washing of regeneration which "water" Baptism merely symbolizes. This "clean water" God speaks of sprinkling us with to cleanse us from sin is Baptism. Baptism means washing or cleansing, which is why it is used to represent the cleansing or washing away of our sins. Whether in fire or in water, Baptism means cleansing. The token of Baptism is not revealed in dipping or immersion but in washing or cleansing. To concentrate on the amount of H2O is to entirely miss the point of Baptism. To strain at a gnat and swallow a Camel, so to speak. Baptism clearly represents cleansing, and not by washing away physical dirt or by any specified amount of physical water, but by the token of washing.

1st Peter 3:20-21
  • "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
  • The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

They weren't buried, dipped or immersed under the ocean or the water to represent this Baptism, but water nevertheless represented that they were cleansed. Noah and His own were not immersed, nor was that Baptism or washing pertaining to physical cleansing of filth, but to something infinitely more important. It represented Spiritual Baptism in Christ Jesus and thus their resurrection unto New life in Christ.


Quote
>>>
Immersion in water is the only true biblical position,
<<<

That's not true--and actually, it's as much your opinion as it was Chicago Bear's opinion that sprinkling was what he preferred "based on His understanding of Scripture." You both have feet of clay and both stand on the same ground. If you believe immersion is the mode of cleansing you prefer "based" on your understanding of Scripture, fine. That's all well and good. But to say it is the "only" real Biblical position is a step too far and unjustly condemns those who don't agree with your position as being unbiblical. Which would be all well and good if Scripture said Thy shalt only Baptise by immersion under water. The fact is, sprinkling, pouring or immersion differ "ONLY" in the amount of water used.

Roman 14:13
  • "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
  • For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
  • Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."

One Believer thinks the amount of water on a physical body makes symbolic cleansing biblical "based" on His understanding of Scripture, and another thinks he only needs to have water poured over him and that represents full spiritual ablution "based" on His understanding of Scripture. Can we call what God has cleansed common/unclean. Especially since Christ Himself demonstrated that the amount of water in symbolic cleansing has no bearing on the real efficacy of that Spiritual cleansing. e.g.:

John 13:8-11
  • "Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
  • Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
  • Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
  • For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean."

i.e., the amount of water, or where you put it, or how you put it, or whether you pour, sprinkle or are immersed in it, is not the point of water Baptism or of the token of cleansing by water or blood in the Old Testament.

You are of course entitled to your opinion based on your view of Scripture. Nut just as Peter was missing the whole point of Christ's cleansing of the feet represented them being cleansed all over, so you are missing the whole point of water baptism. We could only place the token or sign of water upon our feet, and we would be "clean every whit" because the ablution it represents is not about the amount or where water is placed. The token is "not" the real thing hat it signifies.


Quote
>>>
 even though I will admit that godly men in the past would disagree with me, and would even take issue with me...
<<<

And these great Reformed Christian men of faith would do so not because they carelessly simply "preferred" sprinkling or pouring, but because they preferred it based upon their understanding of scripture. As indeed most (apart from Baptists) have written extensively on using Scriptural proofs. These scholarly and conscientious men read that we are buried with Him in Baptism and they didn't conclude that this required immersion because it doesn't. The phrase buried with Him simply points to His being made sin for us (2nd Corinthians 5:21) and carrying those sins in His person and suffering death for them. i.e., all true Believers have part in His First Resurrection through faith, not through immersion in water. Indeed, if we follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, the sign of Baptism would be to be fully buried in dirt or enclosed in a tomb, not water.  Water Baptism represents cleansing, not immersion. God's word speaks of our salvation as the redemptive work of Christ signified by Christian water baptism or cleansing.

Hebrews 10:22
  • "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

Here again, it's all about sprinkling that we may be washed from sin, which is signified by this water Baptism.


Quote
>>>
1st Corinthians 15:29~"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
I have yet to see a person who believes in sprinkling intrepert this passage of scripture correctly. Paul is reasoning with those at Corinth that said there is no resurrection of the body. If it is so that there is no resurrection of the dead, then why were you baptized IF the dead rise not~at water baptism one of the doctrines that we are professing to believe in is that we believe in a FUTURE resurrection of our body, just as Christ arose from the dead, we shall also come forth from the grave with a new glorified body, just like Jesus'.
<<<

The passage is fairly straight forward. The Apostle is rhetorically asking why we are cleansed from the power of the grave through Baptism, if we don't rise from the grave? i.e., Baptism makes no sense unless there is life after death through Baptism, the washing of regeneration. It is merely stating that the resurrection is inextricably tied to our spiritual ablution brought forth by the death and resurrection of Christ (Colossians 2:12-13).

1st Thessalonians 4:14
  • "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The dead in Christ will rise with Him, not because they were immersed totally in water, but because they were washed clean with the Holy Spirit, whether they were dunked, sprinkled or had water poured upon them. The passages about the resurrection have nothing to do with the mode of immersion in water, it has to do with Christ being the Resurrection and the Life, and we being washed by His Spirit. It's just as those who use the phrase "buried in baptism" to claim that means immersion, when water baptism hardly amounts to either being buried in the earth or with being placed in a tomb. It amounts to being washed free of sin through Christ's death and resurrection. Nothing more.

Revelation 1:5
  • "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

We are also born from the dead "because" Christ washed (not immersed) us free from sin by His shed blood. This is the same point of buried with Him in Baptism. The Point is how Christ washed us from sin, not how much water people surmise must be used to signify it. I mean really, do you think God is interested in how much water is used to symbolize Spiritual washing? For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Romans 14:17). Was God pleased with the rich men casting in great sums of money into the treasury, or was God more interested the poor widow who cast in two mites? Likewise, it has nothing to do with the amount of H[sup2[/supO, it has to do with the new heart and new Spirit.

The fact is, there will be those Christians resurrected with God never having a drop of water in baptism placed on them. There will be those sprinkled with water who shall see God. There are those who have had water poured on them who will see God. And there are those who have been immersed in water who will see God. The idea that "only" those immersed are practicing Biblical Christianity or practicing Biblical Baptism, is without Biblical warrant.


Quote
>>>
Sprinkling cannot show forth this truth, ONLY being buried in the water out of sight and rise out of the watery grave can it show forth a bodily resurrection.   
<<<

That comment cannot be Biblically validated, since all through Scripture God uses sprinkling expressly showing forth a bodily resurrection, whether the sprinkling of blood, of water or pouring out of the Holy Spirit and tongues of fire signifying cleansing. We are Baptized with water and with fire because they both represent cleansing or purifying. They all were divinely inspired of God to show forth this truth of Baptism in the Holy Spirit through the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Granted, you may not be able to see it now, but that doesn't mean that it's not there.

Hebrews 9:19
  • ""For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,"

If you don't think that this "sprinkling" can show forth this truth of Christ's dearth and resurrection, you're wrong. It is clearly "not" ONLY being buried in the water, out of sight, and a rising out of the watery grave, that can show forth a bodily resurrection. That may be your opinion but it is not a Biblical fact. Just as sprinkling blood could show the sacrifice of Christ fully, so can the sprinkling of water.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
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Jon Thomas

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 09:17:08 AM »
Sprinkling cannot show forth this truth, ONLY being buried in the water out of sight and rise out of the watery grave can it show forth a bodily resurrection.

Baptism: Its Meaning and Purpose by Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen

http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt069.htm

Jon Thomas

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 09:21:40 AM »
On the related topic of Water Requirement:

A WORD FROM Arthur W. PINK ON WATER BAPTISM

“That baptism is in no wise ESSENTIAL to salvation, that it does not form one of the CONDITIONS which God requires the sinner to meet, is clear from many considerations.

FIRST, if baptism be necessary to salvation then no one was saved before the days of John the Baptist, for the Old Testament will be searched from beginning to end without finding a single mention of “baptism.” God, who changes not, has had but one way of salvation since Adam and Eve became sinners in Eden, and if baptism is an indispensable prerequisite to the forgiveness of sins, then all who died from Abel to the time of Christ are eternally lost. But this is absurd. The Old Testament Scriptures plainly teach otherwise.

In the SECOND place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then every professing believer who has died during this present dispensation is eternally lost, if he died without being baptized. And this would shut heaven’s door upon the repentant thief, as well as all the Quakers and members of the Salvation Army, the vast majority of whom have never been baptized. But this is equally unthinkable.

In the THIRD place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then we must utterly ignore every passage in God’s Word which teaches that SALVATION IS BY GRACE AND NOT OF WORKS, that it is a free gift and not bought by anything the sinner does.

If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that Christ Himself never baptized any one (see John 4:2), for He came to “save his people from their sins.” If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that the apostle Paul when asked point blank by the Philippian jailer, “What must I do to be saved?” answered by saying, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” Finally, if baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange the apostle Paul should have written to the Corinthians, “I thank God I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius” (1 Cor. 1:14).

If then the words of Christ “born of water” have no reference to the waters of baptism, what do they signify? Before replying directly to this question, we must observe how the word “water” is used in other passages in this Gospel. To the woman at the well Christ said, “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life” (John 4:14). Was this literal “water?” One has but to ask the question to answer it. Clearly, “water” is here used EMBLEMATICALLY.


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Again, in John 7:37, 38 we are told, “In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” Here, too, the word “water” is not to be understood literally, but emblematically. These passages in John’s Gospel are sufficient to warrant us in giving the word “water” in John 3:5 a figurative meaning.

If then the Lord Jesus used the word “water” emblematically in John 3:5, to what was He referring? We answer, The WORD of GOD. THIS is ever the instrument used by God in regeneration. In every other passage where the instrument of the new birth is described, it is ALWAYS the Word of God that is mentioned. In Psalm 119:50 we read, “For Thy word hath QUICKENED me.” Again, in 1 Corinthians 4:15 we find the apostle saying, “I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU THROUGH THE GOSPEL.” Again, we are told “Of his own will begat he us with (what?—baptism? no but with) the word of truth” (James 1:18). Peter declares, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever” (1 Pet. 1:23).

The new birth, then, is by the Word of God, and one of the EMBLEMS of the Word is “WATER.” God employs quite a number of emblems to describe the various characteristics and qualities of His Word. It is likened to a “lamp” (Psalm 119:105) because it illumines. It is likened unto a “hammer” (Jer. 23:29) because it breaks up the hard heart. It is likened unto “water” because it cleanses: see Psalm 119:9; John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26: “Born of water” means born of the cleansing and purifying Word of God.”

A.W. Pink – ‘Exposition of the Gospel of John’

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2019, 02:14:19 PM »
To concentrate on the amount of H2O is to entirely miss the point of Baptism.

 )GoodPopst(   Good arguments Tony. As a Reformed Baptist, I favor immersion, but if I weren't baptized already, I would have no problem with sprinkling or pouring. As you say, the point of water baptism is not being immersed, it is as a sign (A sign only) of being cleansed from sin through the death and resurrection of Christ. I agree.

Good Post.


Chicago Bear

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2019, 05:34:58 AM »
It is not what we prefer, but what saith the word of God, is all that we should be concerned with.

I know that. I think I clearly said the reason is because that is what the word of God most often uses for spiritual cleansing. So it wasn't just based on a whim. Anyway, I was going to answer but Tony did a better job of explaining in a short span than I would have. That doesn't mean I take baptism lightly. As I said, I am convinced through scripture that water baptism is a representation of our spiritual cleansing through the blood of Christ, it doesn't represent immersion. That is a "mostly" Baptist or former Baptist theology based on a misunderstanding of certain texts.
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Trevor

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2019, 07:11:23 AM »
I have to agree with Tony Warren "based on Scripture."  Below is a link to an article which should answer any questions faithful Christians would have about Baptism, what it means, how all the early church used sprinkling or pouring for Baptism, the reason for the growth of immersion and a host of other things about Baptism, by Reformed Profesor Dr. Francis Nigel Lee. It's extensive so prepare for a long read.

https://www.fivesolas.com/sprinkle.htm
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Dan

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 11:49:42 AM »
Trev, I don't much care what Reformed theologians say, what confessions say, what Amillennialists say, I care what a good interpretation of the bible says. Most Dispensationalists theologians agree that baptism is by immersion. And nearly all Baptist theologians too. The Baptism of infants is unbiblical as well.

david

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Re: Water Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2019, 05:02:22 PM »
Ask Jesus when you should be baptized,,pray on it and wait,you should get a reply from the holy spirit shortly...opinion...full immersion  is  best..why?,, a lot of people I know claim no effects from a sprinkling,,,however full immersion,,some people feel an electrical charge. and do come out  different,,,some yell in a different language,it is  a very important spiritual journey for you,,  what happened to me, I felt nothing... why? I was shown I was still holding onto something in the past,,the holy spirits showed me what it was, and you move on,, have they told me to get baptized again no...seek Jesus and seek him fully I was told,,,,,after you pray and ask listen to them first, they will show you if you have missed something while you repented..or your holding onto something you need to let go of...your heart is in a good place, but seek advice from above first,,,they may want you to do something else first...before the full effects of the baptizim take place,,some,, to a lot of people have made this choice on their own,,and they go on thinking its all good....some even have done it without repenting...some, a week later ask themselves ..am I saved?..good to follow scripture,yes but you also have the power to get a full answer for yourself in prayer...it's like Tony Warrens, article.i remember and just looked at from 1999, which brought me here,,,about Paul and the ailment (the thorn in his side) he asked the lord to take away...and the lord said no,,,,it was a demon.a tormentor demon to be exact..and the lord said no ..i'm not taking it away...amen the power and the love amen. don't go swimming until you know for sure their are no sharks!

 


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