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Author Topic: Who or What is Babylon The Great  (Read 27034 times)

Mark

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #120 on: June 19, 2020, 06:48:13 PM »
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Isaiah 13:9-11~"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."

Mmmm sounds awful a lot like the same type language as when Christ was addressing his disciples the sign of his coming and the end of the world. Coincidence? (i.e. this is addressed to the NT church not to the world).

Mat 24:29,30
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5,6

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #121 on: June 20, 2020, 11:57:19 AM »
Quote from: Red
I really do not have to give you a reason as to why I have not posted very much on MRF~yet I will, even though your judgemental spirit does not deserve a reason as to why I have not posted very much.

I was reminding you about your testimony that you will come back with a response, not only to my position, but many others, because you have made similiar comment on several of your posts where you did not keep your word.  You are responsible for your own testimony.

Quote
But there are other lessor reasons, mainly the spirit that has taken over this once spiritual site under Tony's leadership which he seems to be here very seldom. 

Why did you bring up Tony Warren as your excuse?  He has nothing to do with your testimony that you failed to keep.  Anyway...


Quote
Isaiah 13:9-11 KJV
[9]  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
[10]  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
[11]  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

What world? Like Reformer said, who the world is in that context? Consider wisely: 

#1.Christ reconciled us to God by His death (Rom 5:9-10)

      Is the "world as we know it" reconciled to God, having Peace? NO!

#2. We were buried with Him and raised, forgiven all (Col 2:12-13)

      Is the "world as we know it" by His death raised and forgiven ALL? NO!
 
#3. We are Washed clean, Sanctified, Justified by it (1st Cor. 6:11)

      Is the "world as we know it" Clean, Holy, and Justified? NO!

#4. We are redeemed, adopted as God's Sons by it (Gal. 4:4-5)

      Is the "world as we know it" Redeemed, adopted Son's of God? NO!

#5. We receive the promise of eternal life by it (Heb. 9:15)

      Has the "world as we know it" been given eternal Life? NO!

Anyone who believe Sin was paid for EVERY PERSON in the ENTIRE WORLD "as we know it" don't really understand the work at the cross.


Matthew 1:21 KJV
[21]  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

John 3:16-17 KJV
[16]  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17]  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

God did not love everyone in the world, but the world of HIS PEOPLE redeemed out of every kindred, tongue people and nation, the "world as we know it."  The world of HIS PEOPLE is the Congregation of Israel. 

Now take a closer look at the "world" of His people.  This is the New Testament congregation of Israel making up up of two groups of believers:

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1]  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2]  But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


Matthew 22:14 KJV
[14]  For many are called, but few are chosen.

The church represents the Holy City (Congregation of Israel) on Earth filled with two groups of people apart from the "world as we know it", Red: 

1.) Elect (Few are chosen) - within God's measured temple area. This is the people whom God loves.
2.) Professed Christians (Many are called) - within the court without the temple, yet externally part of the Holy City. This is the people whom God never sealed or loved, Revelation 9:4.

Therefore, God loves His Elect, the worshippers WITHIN His measured temple area, but judges the unfaithful believers of the court outside the temple area prior to Second Coming.  See, many of the unsaved professed Christians are "called' for the purpose to help Elect building the New Testament church.  Just as I believe Noah may have hired unbelievers or extended family members to come and help building His ark. We both are all builders of God's kingdom just like what happened to the old Testament Congregation when their kingdom representative was taken from the builders (unfaithful Jews) and gave to the Church after the Cross. 

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42]  Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43]  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Therefore, the professed Christians are EXTERNALLY of the Holy City.  After the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished, Rev 11:7-8, the testimony of the Elect ere killed (silenced) by the external people of the same Congregation, the professed Christians, under the influence of the beast (false prophets and christs).  This is how this "court", the external part of the Holy City has "become" Mystery Babylon. This is why God has "resurrected" His Two Witnesses (Elect) and called them to come out of her ( the court). Why? Becasue she is Myserty Babylon!  Because of her unfaithfulness, she is under judgment of God when He gave her to the Gentiles (beast).

Revelation 17:15-18 KJV
[15]  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16]  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17]  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18]  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. 

The kings of the earth are the builders of God's Kingdom. In this context, it is the professed Christians that God give their kingdom (the court part of the city) to the enemy as a judgment.  The judgment will last until the Words of God concerning her judgment shall be fulfilled, THEN Jesus Christ will return and judge the unsaved world, Red!
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Maurice

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #122 on: June 21, 2020, 05:23:43 AM »
As one observing from the outside looking in, why do you continue attempting to convince those who are clearly from the other side of the aisle that they are in error when you know that they will never be convinced? I think some have even said as much. I have been here a while and I have never seen one single person convinced that their position was wrong by any other person. Not with scripture, not with logic and not with debate. So why do you do it? Do you really think Red will change his position, or Red, do you really think Mark will change his? What's the point of the discussion?  )S_Confused(

Rich Aikers

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #123 on: June 21, 2020, 06:13:08 AM »
Maurice, the point is being a watchman and bearing witness to the truth whether they will hear it or not. Here is the general principle of it.

Ezekiel 3:17-19
"Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul."

All God's word is a warning to be obedient and open to hear it.  It's our job to be witnesses of God's word to the church whether they will receive it or not. It's as an admonishment, as the bread of encouragement, or as the sword of judgment. They are going to have to deal with God's word either as bread to nourish the soul or it will come down upon them as a two-edged sword. One way or the other, they are going to have to deal with God's word.

Red

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #124 on: June 21, 2020, 06:26:11 AM »
I was reminding you about your testimony that you will come back with a response, not only to my position, but many others, because you have made similiar comment on several of your posts where you did not keep your word.  You are responsible for your own testimony.
Erik, and I told you why I have not been back, so there~you can use it against me, it matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts; besides and above all, charity demands that we believe the best of others actions and words~ surmising is evil~I chose to believe the best of others UNTIL I know them, and even then I must be careful so as not to sin against God who sees our hearts and weighs our actions, regardless what we think of others, OR, ourselves.
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
Why did you bring up Tony Warren as your excuse?  He has nothing to do with your testimony that you failed to keep.  Anyway...
Never used it as an excuse for not coming~only that another spirit has taken over this once spiritual-minded site.
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
What world? Like Reformer said, who the world is in that context? Consider wisely:
Well I plan on answering his post soon after this one sometime today, or at least in a day or two, the Lord willing. It is amazing that either of you asked such a simple-minded question~no pun intended.

The world in CONTEXT in Isaiah 13 is clearly told to us by the very scriptures that you quoted.
Quote
Isaiah 13:9-11~"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."
The world in the sense in which it is used in these scriptures is SINNER/THE WICKED therein! It has no reference to those who have been called out of it by the grace of God!
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 15:16~"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."
THIS IS the world that Isaiah was prophesying against!
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
#1.Christ reconciled us to God by His death (Rom 5:9-10)

      Is the "world as we know it" reconciled to God, having Peace? NO!
Agreed not sure why even you or Reformer even went this route, it makes no sense! I agree with all of the other questions that you said and probably believe this much longer than you have Erik! Almost forty-five years now or more!
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
Anyone who believe Sin was paid for EVERY PERSON in the ENTIRE WORLD "as we know it" don't really understand the work at the cross.
I agree, and as I said to Mark so say I to you~you do not know what I fully believe, yet I DO know overall what you guys teach, I have read much, say little, JUST as James said we should do. Along the lines of Soteriology, I KNOW the differences between us, you do not know the differences between you and me, and this gives me an advantage over you, NOT that I desire it yet it does serve me well when dialoguing with you, Reformer or anyone else. We BOTH believe in limited atonement~both believe that the grounds of FREE JUSTIFICATION is the faith of Christ, his obedience, righteousness, etc. WE will differ concerning interpreting certain scriptures (which truly is not a grounds of making another brother or sister an offender over such things, yet each should stand their grounds in defending the truth as they see it) and a few other doctrines (or better interpretations)  connected with the doctrine of  Soteriology. Maybe the next point is a perfect example.
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM

John 3:16-17 KJV
[16]  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17]  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

God did not love everyone in the world, but the world of HIS PEOPLE redeemed out of every kindred, tongue people and nation, the "world as we know it."  The world of HIS PEOPLE is the Congregation of Israel.
Yes you are correct that God does not love everyone in the world, but your understanding of the word world AS USE by the scriptures in many places is not what you are saying.

Jesus speaking to Nicodemus A JEW was revealing to him that God's love is not confined to the JEWS ONLY, but also to the GENTILES as well. The World is used NOT as many believe..... ALL without EXCEPTION, but ALL without DISTINCTION! Jews and Gentiles, and AMONG EACH God has a chosen people, who were ordained to eternal life before the world began!
Quote from: Paul
Romans 3:29~"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:"
In the OT Jehovah was the God of the JEWS ONLY overall considered, but now under the NT it is revealed that there is NO difference between Jews and Gentiles.
Quote from: Paul
Romans 10:12~"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
The world in John 3:16 is ALL without DISTINCTION, (JEWS and GENTILES) not all without exception~or, in the sense in which you said, you will find NO support for your understanding in the scriptures.
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
The church represents the Holy City (Congregation of Israel) on Earth filled with two groups of people apart from the "world as we know it", Red:
Erik, I agree that professing church is indeed filled with two groups of people (in our day mainly tares) YET, this church LIVES in Babylon JUST AS the apostate OT church did~even though the VERY ELECT still stayed faithful to God as the Daniel, and his friends did and a few others. You CANNOT separate the church from BEING part of Babylon, or else then we MUST go out of this world, per 1st Corinthians 5! We live IN HER but we do not have to LUST AFTER her......
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merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
We have the power IN US to come OUT OF HER by heeding such scriptures as
Quote
1st John 2:15-17~"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
NOT loving false religion is NO PROBLEM, yet this world is a great temptation to the very best of God's elect! IT IS EASY to come out of false relelgion~I left the professing churches many years ago when I clearly begin to see the abomination sitting where it ought not to sit~the many millions of men of sin that has taken over the professing churches in Babylon!
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM

1.) Elect (Few are chosen) - within God's measured temple area. This is the people whom God loves.
2.) Professed Christians (Many are called) - within the court without the temple, yet externally part of the Holy City. This is the people whom God never sealed or loved, Revelation 9:4.

Therefore, God loves His Elect, the worshippers WITHIN His measured temple area, but judges the unfaithful believers of the court outside the temple area prior to Second Coming.
Agreed
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
See, many of the unsaved professed Christians are "called' for the purpose to help Elect building the New Testament church.
I have no idea what you are saying and what proof you have to say this.
Quote from: Erik Diamond Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 11:57:19 AM
Just as I believe Noah may have hired unbelievers or extended family members to come and help building His ark.
That's pure speculation, you cannot build a bible doctrine on speculation as you should well know!
Quote
Therefore, the professed Christians are EXTERNALLY of the Holy City.  After the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished, Rev 11:7-8, the testimony of the Elect ere killed (silenced) by the external people of the same Congregation, the professed Christians, under the influence of the beast (false prophets and christs).
Agreed in part~yet it will come to pass that the very elect WILL SEE and understand that the temple of God has been taken over by false prophets and their followers and they will flee mainly because they are UNWANTED and folks hate their faithful testimony the truth.

I desire to consider the rest of your post separately from this post since it is already very long.   

"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Rich Aikers

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #125 on: June 21, 2020, 09:58:36 AM »
it matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts

 )thinker( Whenever I hear that phrase I seriously cringe. And I've heard it a lot. Usually by people who don't want to accept what God says. It's on this forum over a hundred times I'm sure.

Reformer

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #126 on: June 21, 2020, 01:15:41 PM »
it matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts

 )thinker( Whenever I hear that phrase I seriously cringe. And I've heard it a lot. Usually by people who don't want to accept what God says. It's on this forum over a hundred times I'm sure.

That's so true and I was thinking the same thing. God says something in His word to man and man retorts to man that "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" True, God does know what is in our hearts, and what is there is not all peaches and cream. It's filled with egotism and pride. And unless God breaks that, we will always look at God's word as man's interpretation. You are right Rich, we have heard that phrase a hundred times here, and it was never by someone looking for truth. That's just the bare facts that no one wants to deal with.

God says "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers." We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" He doesn't want me to be alone.

God says "I hate Divorce."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows my hearts!" He doesn't want me to be miserable in a relationship with someone who is not a Christian.

God says "we were born, not of the will of man, but of God."  We testify to that.   Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" That we must be free to accept Him without being dragged to the throne of grace.

God says "these seven things are an abomination to him."  We testify to that.   Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" Sure God hates these seven things, but he also wants us to choose them if they are more righteous.

God says "the children of the flesh are not the children of God."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" That we love his people and will always side with them because God chose Israel.

God says "the wicked will be tormented with fire, its smoke ascendeth up for ever and ever and they have no rest day nor night."  We testify to that.   Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" And our heart tells us that God is not vengeful and will not judge unrighteously that way.

God says "Come out from among them and be ye separate."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" We have to live in this world, we become like the world to win the world.

God says "He that is of God hears God's word, you do not hear it because you are not of God."  We testify to that.     Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" We hear what we can, but we will stick with our convictions, and we won't be preached to as if your word is the only truth.

Our word? Yes we've heard this exact same phrase hundreds of times. See how they always transpose God's word upon man as if they are not rejecting what God says, but only what man says? They have to know that God is the one who said it, not man. But they can't bear to say God is wrong, and so they transpose it on to man's interpretation so they can blame man for God's word.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Yes, God knows what is in our hearts. The sin that is in our hearts is often hidden from ourselves, but never from God.  So we had better make our calling and election sure by receiving the spirit of truth. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing by God's word. Not by conviction.



Diane Moody

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #127 on: June 21, 2020, 04:32:55 PM »
 )preach_(  Love that you tell it like it is Reformer. Don't ever be dissuaded from the truth.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #128 on: June 21, 2020, 07:12:49 PM »
Quote from: Red
you can use it against me, it matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts

Oh boy!

Quote
Never used it as an excuse for not coming~only that another spirit has taken over this once spiritual-minded site.

Huh? Yet you "DID" come here, not only making some posts, but also left a comments like "I will be back on this or that" comments.  So are you NOW saying that you can't come here as often because "another spirit has taken over this once spiritual-minded site."  Sigh!

Quote
Well I plan on answering his post soon after this one sometime today, or at least in a day or two, the Lord willing.

Here you go again, another "I will be back and response soon." And its already two days since you read his post.  Looking forward to your response to Reformer.

Quote
The world in the sense in which it is used in these scriptures is SINNER/THE WICKED therein! It has no reference to those who have been called out of it by the grace of God!

Ahem, you pulled a verse out of context thinking God was talking about the unsaved world.  No, you need to read what God said in the context about the sinners. Didn't God said they are the stars of the heaven? Does this sounds like your defination of the stars of the heaven being the world, doesn't it?  Didn't you realize that the heaven signifies the kingdom of God and the stars are the messengers of the said congregation, humm? 

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Almost forty-five years now or more!

Your age means nothing. The real question is if you have spirit of Christ to be able to discern His Word carefully.

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Along the lines of Soteriology, I KNOW the differences between us, you do not know the differences between you and me, and this gives me an advantage over you, NOT that I desire it yet it does serve me well when dialoguing with you, Reformer or anyone else.

So you believe you have an advantage over us becasue you believe you have the "biblical" doctrine of salvation with your false "five phases of salvation?"  Plus you also believe in annihilationism? Sorry, buddy, we have refuted your salvation position the other day. So please don't bring up your so called "Soteriology" as your authority of understanding over us. You have been refuted.

Quote
Erik, I agree that professing church is indeed filled with two groups of people (in our day mainly tares) YET, this church LIVES in Babylon JUST AS the apostate OT church did~even though the VERY ELECT still stayed faithful to God as the Daniel, and his friends did and a few others. You CANNOT separate the church from BEING part of Babylon, or else then we MUST go out of this world, per 1st Corinthians 5!

I see that you are still blind with your own private interpreation that Babylon the Great is the world.  Sorry to say.

Let move on but I will wait to see how your response to Reformer's position. :-)





"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Red

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #129 on: June 22, 2020, 05:13:26 AM »
That's so true and I was thinking the same thing. God says something in His word to man and man retorts to man that "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" True, God does know what is in our hearts, and what is there is not all peaches and cream. It's filled with egotism and pride. And unless God breaks that, we will always look at God's word as man's interpretation. You are right Rich, we have heard that phrase a hundred times here, and it was never by someone looking for truth. That's just the bare facts that no one wants to deal with.
I was using that phrase in the same sense that Solomon said it, so I guess you men find fault with Solomon using it.
Quote from: King Solomon
1st King 8:39~"Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men
By judging another person for using that phrase, you are more or less saying that YOU KNOW why they use it. The measures you mete out to others will be the same measure that God shall judge you by. Matthew 7:1,2; etc. I rather follow the scriptures and do ALL THINGS with charity toward all men. 1st Corinthians 16:14, etc.
Quote from: Reformer Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 01:15:41 PM
It's filled with egotism and pride.
I agree even with the very best of God's children, and it is very sad that it is.
Quote from: Reformer Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 01:15:41 PM
God says "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers." We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" He doesn't want me to be alone.

God says "I hate Divorce."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows my hearts!" He doesn't want me to be miserable in a relationship with someone who is not a Christian.

God says "we were born, not of the will of man, but of God."  We testify to that.   Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" That we must be free to accept Him without being dragged to the throne of grace.

God says "these seven things are an abomination to him."  We testify to that.   Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" Sure God hates these seven things, but he also wants us to choose them if they are more righteous.

God says "the children of the flesh are not the children of God."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" That we love his people and will always side with them because God chose Israel.
Have no problem with any of that, and most likely believe "we were born, not of the will of man, but of God." Strongly that you do. If you desire to know in what manner, then we can discuss it.
Quote from: Reformer Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 01:15:41 PM
God says "the wicked will be tormented with fire
Can you prove this? I would greatly desire to see this.
Quote from: Reformer Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 01:15:41 PM
God says "Come out from among them and be ye separate."  We testify to that.  Man's retort, "It matters little what man thinks, God knows our hearts!" We have to live in this world, we become like the world to win the world.
Reformer, I'm with you 100% on this, you need to convert Erik not me on your position of Revelation 18:4~ for I too believe it is speaking about the WORLD, not false religion!
Quote from: Reformer Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 01:15:41 PM
God says "He that is of God hears God's word, you do not hear it because you are not of God."  We testify to that. 
So do I.

Quote from: Erik Diamond on: Yesterday at 07:12:49 PM
So you believe you have an advantage over us becasue you believe you have the "biblical" doctrine of salvation
Did not say that Erik~you are adding to my statement, and leaving off some. I said: I KNOW WELL what you folks teach concerning Soteriology~and you folks do not know fully what I believe and teach....THEREBY, that gives me somewhat of an advantage over you, again, NOT that I desire it, but does.

And yes, without question save/saved/salvation is used in different senses in the word of God and our duty is to rightly divide those senses, or else, we will end up holding some form of false doctrines. 
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Nehemiah 8:8~"So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading."
For without it, one cannot come to the knowledge of the truth of what he is reading! 
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #130 on: June 22, 2020, 01:42:00 PM »
Quote
Reformer, I'm with you 100% on this, you need to convert Erik not me on your position of Revelation 18:4~ for I too believe it is speaking about the WORLD, not false religion!

What are you talking about, Red? What did Reformer needed to convert me over Revelation 18:4?

Revelation 18:4 KJV
[4]  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Per context and chapter, God is talking about his unfaithful congregation, not the world. We are commanded to come out of the  unfaithful congregation (where we see abomination of desolation standing in, Matthew 24:15-16) so we won't receive her plagues that God sent upon her.  Your theory about Babylon being the "world" is fatally flawed!   

Quote
Did not say that Erik~you are adding to my statement, and leaving off some. I said: I KNOW WELL what you folks teach concerning Soteriology~and you folks do not know fully what I believe and teach....THEREBY, that gives me somewhat of an advantage over you, again, NOT that I desire it, but does.

Advantage over us?  No, we have refuted your "five phases of Salvation" and "annihilationism" on this forum that made your knowledge in "soteriology" questionable which you obviously denied.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Red

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #131 on: June 22, 2020, 02:23:42 PM »
No, we have refuted your "five phases of Salvation" and "annihilationism" on this forum that made your knowledge in "soteriology" questionable which you obviously denied.
Erik, said
Quote from: Erik Diamond
« on: Today at 01:42:00 PM
we have refuted your "five phases of Salvation"
I assume you are referring to this thread: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3436.0 Erik, it's hard to refute something if you refuse to comment to the person doing the speaking/teaching. You never attempted to refute what I posted, yet you want others to believe that you refuted it! Does honestly mean anything to you? I would trust that it does, so please be honest in posting about another person.

I'm persuaded that I can hold my own with you or any other man on soteriology.  I'm convinced that you do not know how to properly divide save/saved/salvation but like so many used your wide brush and use salvation in one sense, and one sense only. If you think you do then go to  http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3436.0  and prove it, it is just that easy.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2020, 03:11:19 PM »
Quote
I assume you are referring to this thread: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3436.0 Erik, it's hard to refute something if you refuse to comment to the person doing the speaking/teaching. You never attempted to refute what I posted, yet you want others to believe that you refuted it! Does honestly mean anything to you? I would trust that it does, so please be honest in posting about another person.

Shhh...I did refuted your false doctrine at least in the ORIGINAL thread.  In case you forgot, it was part of a larger thread that was originally discussed before you hijack it and tried to sell with your "five phases of salvation" theory that I have detemined to be unbiblical.  You went wild after I demand that you show us the proof on your "five phases of salvation" which is why the admin decided to broke your posts apart from original thread and move to a new thread entitled "Salvation" with my post being on the top.   

Now about THIS thread, "Who and What is Babylon the great", I was just referred to one of your rambles, "five phases of salvation" along with "annihilationsim" as an example to prove that your claim to have better understanding on soteriology over us is false. 

Therefore, I am not interested to discuss further with your "five phased of salvation" theory which I have already determined to be biblically incorrect.  If you want to promote with your "five phases of salvation," please do it on Salvation thread you found.   But not here.

Thank you!
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Red

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Re: Who or What is Babylon The Great
« Reply #133 on: June 22, 2020, 04:29:01 PM »
Therefore, I am not interested to discuss further with your "five phased of salvation" theory which I have already determined to be biblically incorrect.  If you want to promote with your "five phases of salvation," please do it on Salvation thread you found.   But not here. Thank you!
You determined something does not make it the truth~you chose NOT to debate it which was a wise choice on your part since you had nothing to prove it false.

Quote
I did refuted your false doctrine at least in the ORIGINAL thread
I do not think so. The break-off is where I proved my doctrine~where you decided enough is enough I have no answers, at least your actions spoke for you.   Please show me the original. No problem, no more on this thread.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

 


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