[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: The Battle of Armageddon  (Read 15070 times)

Hethatreadethit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 05:26:45 AM »
The sorrow of the world is the demise of the world and the loosing of those things that make up their world.  The rich ruler was saddened when Christ told him to sell what he had and come follow him.  The world's Church's have built their theology that keeps them tied down to the world and when that theology is threatened ( mountains fall on us),  they will be very alarmed.
The worldly people prefer to hide, from the light.

faith53

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2011, 11:15:41 PM »
This makes more sense to me. It's worldly people lamenting something here? After all....He comes for The Elect? Christ returns in all His glory, along with the fury of God's power and judgment. Meanwhile? All the Elect are somehow mystified and sorrowful for the destruction of described worldly depictions?

We are one in Christ and it's hard for me to understand (in this moment of long foretold judgment) that somehow we're standing someplace afar off and weeping over the destruction of those who persecuted us for years.....leading up to? I can't seem to find a Christian anywhere, and this current false religion has already separated family and friends. It's my belief that once God turns to Christ and essentially says ....go and get your people....we would join in with Our Redeemer, not out of spite or joy, but righteousness?

Rev 5

 1. [5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Rev21

[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Though Rev 21 is a bit after the fact, this coming seems to me a rescue mission, with no sorrows. Perhaps we need to prepare and do not really understand what awaits us. Give us thanks and prayer for each other, as persecution precedes the victory.

Hebrews 13

[13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.


Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2552
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 11:36:59 PM »
Quote
The sorrow of the world is the demise of the world and the loosing of those things that make up their world.

That is what majority of church believe, but that is not what God talk about in Revelation 18.  The merchandises that Babylon has are NOT physical, rather spiritually representing the Gospel that we are made merchants of.  It is spiritual discerned.  You need to compare EACH MERCHANDISE of Revelation 18 with the rest of the Bible. Not Wall Street, mortgage, mom and pop stores.  Spiritual Discerned, According to God's INTERPRETATION in the Holy Bible where you need to do some bit homework. 

Your position also explain why you do not understand who Kings and merchants of the earth really are, in relationship to merchandises and the city!

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Hethatreadethit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2011, 10:12:03 AM »
Greetings Erik:  My reply to you may not have come out as I had planned,  because I failed to make this point:  Babylon went into the temple and took all the great things thereof, and it parallels with spiritual Babylon(confusion which came about because they turned their ears from the truth), which took spiritual things ( concerning the word of God) and built false doctrines to hide in, and they practised and prospered.  Sure they prospered because they followed not the truth, but made grace a free for all of licentiousness.  The substitutional death of Christ made their doctrine very pleasing to the flesh and removes the guilty party from having anything to do with the death of Christ and their sins.  Babylon does not have heart for God's word and the mysteries thereof, though she will be constantly learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth:

2Ti 3:1  This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6  For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8  Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

So when one realizes that the doctrines they have been following are confused noise and deceit, flee from Bablon and don't wait for the walls to tumble over.

Sincerely:  Hethatreadethit

Reformer

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1831
  • Reformed and Evangelical
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2011, 11:04:53 AM »
Quote
The sorrow of the world is the demise of the world and the loosing of those things that make up their world.

That is what majority of church believe, but that is not what God talk about in Revelation 18.  The merchandises that Babylon has are NOT physical, rather spiritually representing the Gospel that we are made merchants of.  It is spiritual discerned.  You need to compare EACH MERCHANDISE of Revelation 18 with the rest of the Bible. Not Wall Street, mortgage, mom and pop stores.  Spiritual Discerned, According to God's INTERPRETATION in the Holy Bible where you need to do some bit homework. 

You are essentially correct in your understanding of this particular passage, though a bit abrasive.

However, when you claim the kings of the earth that cry to the mountains to fall on them are the elect, I believe you are in error. The context does not support that view, neither does other scriptures that use the same type language. For example the text you did not address I believe is most nearly related to this.

 Ho 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.

Clearly these are unsaved people of Israel. And that ties into the second verse using this language, which also speaks of unsaved Israel.

 Lu 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

which of course ties us into the third verse that speaks of the unsaved of Israel.

 Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Comparing scripture with scripture, the interpretation seems very clear to me. These are not the elect, but the unsaved of God's congregation.


Hethatreadethit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2011, 01:51:51 PM »
Reply #14 should have followed this one. Thank you,  Hethatreadethit




Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2552
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2011, 04:58:15 PM »
Quote
Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Comparing scripture with scripture, the interpretation seems very clear to me. These are not the elect, but the unsaved of God's congregation.

Reformer, please read the context:

Rev 6:11  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Reformer, the earthquake, sun, moon and stars are the same what we read in Matthew 24, Luke 21, etc, but these do not point to Second Coming itself.  Rather these are the signs of the judgment of the unfaithful church.  Now, tell me Reformer,  how will the PROFESSED CHRISTIANS will realize that they are being judged BEFORE the Last Trumpet?  It does not really  make sense to me, unless you can enlighten me more on how and WHEN they actually say the Wrath of the Lamb is come.

I was thinking perhaps the kings of the earth in the above context should tend to be Elects who have flee to the mountains where the Lord (for protection) while THEE thief comes to judge the unfaithful congregation where professed Christians have NO IDEA that they are being judged. They are dancing and singing in the church until the last trump. They won't say that Wrath of the Lamb has come. 

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

faith53

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 08:57:03 PM »
Eric.....It seems you are jumping around in the book of Revelations, when the book itself does this very thing. It's not a comparative scripture book, as all others. Theologians for centuries have confirmed this and do not make the attempts which you seem to hold dear. When trumpets sound, have little to do with this chapter of the Bible.

For instance; you and others claim the Elect are depicted in chapter 18, when actually they are not referred to until verse 20, where we read:

20: Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

This notion of mystery Babylon (up until this 20th verse) being anything other than a worldly body continues to baffle me. The description of worldly things are not in reference to other depictions of the Bible. These are fornicators who are sorrowful because they joined with the harlot church and benefited from it. They stand afar off because the merchandise of the false church is no longer viable.

John's written word here has nothing to do with the Elect.....until the 20th verse when those in the Holy Place rejoice over the smoke of her burning. Using your own favorite words here.....you need to go study further.

faith53

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 09:26:04 PM »
Quote
Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Comparing scripture with scripture, the interpretation seems very clear to me. These are not the elect, but the unsaved of God's congregation.

Reformer, please read the context:

Rev 6:11  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Reformer, the earthquake, sun, moon and stars are the same what we read in Matthew 24, Luke 21, etc, but these do not point to Second Coming itself.  Rather these are the signs of the judgment of the unfaithful church.  Now, tell me Reformer,  how will the PROFESSED CHRISTIANS will realize that they are being judged BEFORE the Last Trumpet?  It does not really  make sense to me, unless you can enlighten me more on how and WHEN they actually say the Wrath of the Lamb is come.

I was thinking perhaps the kings of the earth in the above context should tend to be Elects who have flee to the mountains where the Lord (for protection) while THEE thief comes to judge the unfaithful congregation where professed Christians have NO IDEA that they are being judged. They are dancing and singing in the church until the last trump. They won't say that Wrath of the Lamb has come. 

Erik


In no case do the Elect have to hide from anything. Why would they? The only reason to hide and pray for rocks/concrete to come down on you is to hide from the fury of God's wrath.

The Elect are not going to hide from anything......they will be too busy rejoicing. 

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2552
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: The Battle of Armageddon
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2011, 09:40:47 PM »
    Quote
    This notion of mystery Babylon (up until this 20th verse) being anything other than a worldly body continues to baffle me. The description of worldly things are not in reference to other depictions of the Bible. These are fornicators who are sorrowful because they joined with the harlot church and benefited from it. They stand afar off because the merchandise of the false church is no longer viable.

    Are you kidding me? The fornicators are sorrowful because they cannot buy physical sheeps, chariots, or cinnamon in the church?! Please read verses carefully:

     Revelation 18:11
    • And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore

    Exactly what merchandises do you think God talked about that no man can buy from HIS MERCHANTS?  Wwhat merchandises? God listed them carefully:

    Rev 18:11-14
    • And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
    • The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
    • And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
    • And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    Gold
    Silver
    Previous Stones
    Pearls
    Fine Linen
    Purple
    Silk
    Scarlet
    Thyine Wood
    Vessels of Ivory
    Vessels of most previous wood
    Brass
    Iron
    Marble
    Cinnamon
    Odours
    Ointments
    Frankincense
    Wine and Oil
    Fine Flour
    Wheat
    Beasts
    Sheep
    Horses
    Chariots
    Slaves
    Souls of Men

    These merchandises which rightfully belongs to the TRUE MERCHANTS, Christ and His Bride, the TRUE CHURCH.  Now being LACK of these merchandise within organized and corporate church that provokes the weeping and mourning of the true spiritual merchants, the Elects.  It is because Satan and his armies has spoiled and robbed all these merchandises that brought nothing but desolation upon the Whore as prophesied by Ezekiel that you need to check with:

    Eze 38:9-13
    • Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
    • Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
    • And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates
      • To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
        • Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

        This is the same Gog and Magog war as prophesied in Revelation 20. And notice that Sheba, Dedan, and the MERCHANTS of Tarshish and all YOUNG LIONS are the Elects who are Merchants of God PROPHESIES against this destructive army (or professed Believers) who come to take spoil and prey, to carry away SILVER GOLD, CATTLE and Goods.  Ezekiel predicted about the SAME event that John wrote. These merchandises are SPIRITUAL in nature that speaks about GOSPEL which is what being take away from the church. Who are the weeping here? Professed Christians? Not! They are not weeping at church at all. They are dancing and celebrating thinking God is blessing them. They will deny that there is nothing wrong with their church. What did God said about them and what HIS PEOPLE will react when they see the judgment of unfaithful whore:

        Rev 18:7-10
        • How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
        • Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
        • And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
        • Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

        These professed Christians do NOT mourn for her, they will deny that there is no abominations going on in their church. They will think they are God's bride and that He won't judge them. But God does!  And the kings of the earth, being Elects, will mourn over her because they SEE the smoke of her burning and prophesy that the judgment has come. The professed Christians do not do that PRIOR to Second Coming!

        Now let give you some example. Take sheep and chariots in Revelation 18.  Do you think God is talking about literal sheep and chariots in the Church where men can buy? Of course not! These things are all symbolically the Gospel as God defined it! Spiritual discerned!

        Now with all these true merchandises gone, what do you think these professed Christians actually "buying and selling" right now in the apostate church today?  Please read Revelation 13!

        Erik
    [/list][/list][/list]
    "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

    Chicago Bear

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 292
    • Gender: Male
    • A Chicagoan Named Bear
    Re: The Battle of Armageddon
    « Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 10:10:46 PM »
    This notion of mystery Babylon (up until this 20th verse) being anything other than a worldly body continues to baffle me. The description of worldly things are not in reference to other depictions of the Bible. These are fornicators who are sorrowful because they joined with the harlot church and benefited from it. They stand afar off because the merchandise of the false church is no longer viable.

    As Tony always says, look at the context. God tells his people to come out of this woman Babylon. It is then that we see the kings of the earth stand far off from her. How is that baffling? How is it baffling that the people who God told to come out of her so she can be judged, stand far off? There is nothing baffling about it. The unsaved don't come out and stand far off, they are those within her that are being judged.

     Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

     God can't judge a Church if there is no one in it. That doesn't make sense. What is he judging, a building, a pile of bricks left when they came out? No, he is judging the people left within.
    Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

    faith53

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 20
    Re: The Battle of Armageddon
    « Reply #26 on: September 12, 2011, 10:48:07 PM »
    OK. We now have a spirited discussion going here.  ;D

    I've learned a lot from Tony, Erik, and others on this forum. My contention here is the book of Revelations is all about symbolic, and truth in separation. It's not like the other books of the Bible at all. Up until this book? The Holy Written Word is an account given by divine revelation, to those whom God ordained it to give. Until now; one could cross reference, meld the OT with the NT, and it's all about Christ.

    However, many have attempted to cross reference this book with the aforementioned....to no avail. Put another way, let us not over think this thing? Read Revelation 18 with simplicity?

    How does John reveal Babylon in all it's reverse glory....only to state in Rev18:20 that we are to rejoice over what you folks consider the Elect? How is it the first 19 versus are all about negative connotations towards an entity, and then suddenly......John states we should rejoice over her demise?

    I wait patiently your answer......


    Chicago Bear

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 292
    • Gender: Male
    • A Chicagoan Named Bear
    Re: The Battle of Armageddon
    « Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 02:50:13 AM »
    I've learned a lot from Tony, Erik, and others on this forum.

    That was really not my point. I don't follow any man. I only brought up Tony's Hermeneutic of allowing the bible to interpret itself, rather than throwing up our hands thinking it's too tough for anyone to understand. Comparing scripture with scripture is the way to let God interpret his own word.


    Quote
    My contention here is the book of Revelations is all about symbolic, and truth in separation. It's not like the other books of the Bible at all. Up until this book?

    I don't agree. Revelation is like every other book of the bible. It has to be cross referenced with the rest of the Bible in order to make any sense of it. I believe that the Bible interprets itself through this method. And actually, it is very much like the book of Ezekiel. The same symbolism.  It is very much like the book of Jeremiah. The same symbolism. It's very much like the book of Daniel. The same symbolism. It's very much like every other book.


    Quote
    The Holy Written Word is an account given by divine revelation, to those whom God ordained it to give. Until now; one could cross reference, meld the OT with the NT, and it's all about Christ.

     Still can. The whole Bible is all about mankind, sin, Christ, the congregation and God's judgment of sin and the congregation. From beginning to the end.


    Quote
    However, many have attempted to cross reference this book with the aforementioned....to no avail.

    That may be the problem. Instead of looking with an eye to understand Revelation, you are hung up that many don't understand it. With all due respect to the "many" you reference, they have nothing to do with our understanding of biblical text. We are supposed to study it ourselves, not lean upon the mistakes of those who went before us.


    Quote
    Put another way, let us not over think this thing? Read Revelation 18 with simplicity?

    No, we read Revelation comparing scripture with scripture, we read it in context, we read it with the rest of the bible being authoritative on what things mean. In other words, the horsemen of Revelation is defined by Old Testament like symbolism of symbolic horses of different colors. The binding of Satan is defined by what Christ said in Matthew about binding Satan. The voice of the bridegroom and of the bride no more heard in Babylon is defined by the rest of the Bible and its definition of the bridegroom. Not defined by taking things literal or just guessing at symbolism.


    Quote
    How does John reveal Babylon in all it's reverse glory....only to state in Rev18:20 that we are to rejoice over what you folks consider the Elect?

     I don't consider there being any problem here. God calls "His People" out of this unfaithful Church, they mourn or are sorrowful that what was once a beautiful Church glorifying God has become an abomination, and God says that they should rejoice in his divine justice, because we (the elect) have been avenged. You're seeing problems with the text where there is no problem.

     Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
     11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Do you see the connection, by comparing scripture with scripture?


    Quote
    How is it the first 19 versus are all about negative connotations towards an entity, and then suddenly......John states we should rejoice over her demise?

    I wait patiently your answer......

    Because the time had come for God to judge and avenge our blood on that woman, and the elect should rejoice in God's perfect justice. Because that is exactly what it is, justice. You would agree I'm sure.

     Jeremiah 14:10 Thus saith the LORD unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the LORD doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins.
     11 Then said the LORD unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.  

    This is the same principle. Don't feel sorry for or pray for this rebellious people under God's judgment, because God is judging them and it is justice, which we should rejoice in. we're not over-thinking it, we are reading it in light of the whole bible. Perhaps you are under-thinking it with your idea that many have tried and failed?

    Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

    Reformer

    • Affiliate Member
    • ******
    • Posts: 1831
    • Reformed and Evangelical
    Re: The Battle of Armageddon
    « Reply #28 on: September 13, 2011, 05:48:53 AM »

    That was really not my point. I don't follow any man. I only brought up Tony's Hermeneutic of allowing the bible to interpret itself, rather than throwing up our hands thinking it's too tough for anyone to understand. Comparing scripture with scripture is the way to let God interpret his own word.


     ;)  Nice "Argument!"  :P



    Quote
    I don't agree. Revelation is like every other book of the bible. It has to be cross referenced with the rest of the Bible in order to make any sense of it. I believe that the Bible interprets itself through this method. And actually, it is very much like the book of Ezekiel. The same symbolism.  It is very much like the book of Jeremiah. The same symbolism. It's very much like the book of Daniel. The same symbolism. It's very much like every other book.


    Exactly! It is JUST like every other book in that it is interpreted by every other book. We wouldn't even know what the two Witnesses of Revelation 11 were without the rest of the Bible, or the voice of the bridegroom without Matthew, Luke and John telling us Christ was the bridegroom, or what the 12 stars of Revelation 12 represented without the 12 stars that represented the children of Israel in the old testament. You are correct. That is the whole Point!! Our system of interpretation.

    Reformer

    • Affiliate Member
    • ******
    • Posts: 1831
    • Reformed and Evangelical
    Re: The Battle of Armageddon
    « Reply #29 on: September 13, 2011, 06:00:46 AM »
    Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Reformer, the earthquake, sun, moon and stars are the same what we read in Matthew 24, Luke 21, etc, but these do not point to Second Coming itself.  Rather these are the signs of the judgment of the unfaithful church.  Now, tell me Reformer,  how will the PROFESSED CHRISTIANS will realize that they are being judged BEFORE the Last Trumpet?  It does not really  make sense to me, unless you can enlighten me more on how and WHEN they actually say the Wrath of the Lamb is come.

    I think you are assuming that the passage "Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" means they know they are being judged. It is more likely that by their actions they are calling God's judgment down upon themselves. which the passages I gave you before also indicated. They weren't verbally calling hills to fall on them, all three passages symbolize they call God's judgment upon them. The mountain falling on them is the judgment of the kingdom of Christ. As In Hosea, they called it upon themselves by their sin.

     Mt 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
     45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

    Christ is the mountain that will fall on them as judgment. When God calls the elect to come out of her, she is judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins.


     


    [ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]