[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day  (Read 16013 times)

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2357
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2006, 03:24:05 PM »
Quote
Hey, it's the bad news camp who claims there's no chance of salvation because satan has been loosed.  The Gospel  --  coming from the GOOD NEWS CAMP  --  says, BOOOOOO!  No way, man.

Dude,

Where's in the bible that said, "booo"?  You have not even offered a single verse to support your position under this thread. I see nothing but empty accustations, assumations and emotional appeals.  I don't think you understood scripture when presented.  I don't think you are a serious bible student or have ability to understand what Bible says.

Next time, per forum rule, if you want to defend your position, please back it up with Scripture, not giving lip service for other group's belief. 

Thanks,
Erk



 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dude

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2006, 03:40:03 PM »
Dude said:

Quote
Taro

"A gospel that teaches there is no salvation has none of these (faith, hope, and love) therefore, there is no gospel in this kind of doctrine." 

You know Dude, I also thought that this doctrine that everyone is talking about had "no hope".  I was really upset when I read it.  I also want you to know that when I first learned about "predestination", I was pretty upset too.  I mean....I couldn't "do" anything for my children and their salvation?  Well, the Lord revealed to me that I never did have anything to "do" with their salvation, and He showed me that He was a Righteous God and that I could trust in His Judgment.

Why I am saying this?  Because it is basically the same thing.  Trusting God!

If God has 144,000 (spiritual) souls to save throughout eternity, then He will save each and every one of THEM. Not 144,001 or 144,002...ect, ect.   So what are we worrying about?  He will save who He wants!

I just wish you would at least listen to the people on this forum and look at other posts to see if what they are saying is true, instead of ganging up against them, when in effect, you don't even know ALL of what they are teaching!

Of course we may be wrong.  No one is perfect!  The truth is though, that ALL that will be saved, WILL BE saved!  So what's the prob???

Pam



Hi Pam


So what's the prob, you ask?  The bad news camp is not bringing the Gospel of Christ, not that their efforts will in any way thwart the salvation plan of GOD, no way, dudette!  As you know, Gospel means Good News but they delight in bad news.  Poor souls, but His mercy endureth forever so there's still hope.

Let me ask you, was satan bound when the LORD was saving all sorts of people before His death, burial, and resurrection?  If your answer is "NO" then tell me why any faithful child of GOD would think that when satan is loosed for a little season that all of GOD'S elect must be saved because satan is running wild again and he's got some new power which really messes up the LORD'S plan?  Hey, it's the LORD'S plan and it's perfect and it will glorify HIM to the max.  How does the bad news camp glorify GOD by insisting that HE says HE isn't going to save anyone else during Great Tribulation  --  the world did not see the day when the LORD went to the cross, but the thief on HIS right was there with a ringside seat  --  what camp do you think he'd be in if he could join us?  

Also, sure we're all wrong from time to time.  But let's not repeat the errors of the poor, bad news camp souls.  Let's not use Acts 27 and Revelation 7:1-4 as proof text for the world's most bogus, theological theory.  No salvation because satan is loosed, hahahahaha  Better to laugh than cry. If you know them, please post the other verses which the bad news camp uses for their proof  --  you're correct, I have not read all of their theories.

Dude

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2006, 03:58:57 PM »
Quote
Hey, it's the bad news camp who claims there's no chance of salvation because satan has been loosed.  The Gospel  --  coming from the GOOD NEWS CAMP  --  says, BOOOOOO!  No way, man.

Dude,

Where's in the bible that said, "booo"?  You have not even offered a single verse to support your position under this thread. I see nothing but empty accustations, assumations and emotional appeals.  I don't think you understood scripture when presented.  I don't think you are a serious bible student or have ability to understand what Bible says.

Next time, per forum rule, if you want to defend your position, please back it up with Scripture, not giving lip service for other group's belief. 

Thanks,
Erk



 



Erik


I asked you earlier to defend your position regarding Revelation 7:1-4  --  do you remember the question?  If not I'll be happy to post it again, dude. Lee at least had the intestinal fortitude to stand up for his position regarding Acts 27  --  a position which is all wet, imho  --  but at least he gave a little sign of life.  So what about Revelation 7:1-4, how does a passage pointing to JUDGEMENT DAY get used for a bogus theory concerning Great Tribulation?  More silence to come, I'll bet.  Why?  Because you can never tie together wind with tribulation  --  IT ALWAYS HAS TO DO WITH JUDGEMENT, erik.  So please stop using Revelation 7:1-4 and Acts 27 to promote the bad news coming from your camp. thank you

Also, what are the other verses or passages you folks offer to prove your position that salvation ends when satan is loosed for a little season?

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2187
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2006, 07:07:39 PM »
>>>
Hi Pam

So what's the prob, you ask?  The bad news camp is not bringing the Gospel of Christ, not that their efforts will in any way thwart the salvation plan of GOD, no way, dudette!
<<<

First of all, there is no bad news camp here. But we do believe in "full-disclosure!" What you apparently are unaware of is that the scriptures are both bad news and good news. Bad news for the sinner and good news for the repentant. And neglecting one is just as bad as neglecting the other. Or didn't you know that? The fact is, whatever the Lord says, whether good or bad, we cannot neglect bearing witness to it.

1st King 22:8
  • "And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so."

But the fact is, though this person clearly (like that world) didn't want to hear the TRUTH and was distressed because "God's Prophet" always spoke evil concerning this king's actions, He indeed could do nothing but speak it. Because it was the truth, whether this king wanted to hear it or not. A lesson for all of us.

1st Kings 22:13-14
  • "And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.
  • And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak."

My antenna always goes up when people come into the forum with a chip on their shoulder and (it seems) with no other purpose than to look for a fight or offense, rather than evaluate, examine, discuss and debate scripture.


Quote
>>>
..As you know, Gospel means Good News but they delight in bad news.
<<<

The gospel is the good news that the elect are free from worry about the "Bad News"[/b] that God has inspired written down on those same pages for the unrepentant. So keep that straight. The holy unadulterated scriptures are both good news and bad news. Jesus came to the elect not only with the news that their iniquity was pardoned, but the news that without Him, their sins remain and they shall be tormented in the hades. Christ came with the news that in this life His people will come under disdain, ridicule, be persecuted, hated, reviled, have tribulation. He came with the news that their enemies would be those of their own household and of their own family. He came with the bad news that damnation awaits those who are disobedient and stiff necked as to ignore His words. And He came with the bad news that "FEW" would ultimately listen to His word and enter into the kingdom, though "MANY" would assuredly try.

..you see, what these good people are attempting to tell you is that there is the "WHOLE" Bible to be considered, not just isolated parts people like, such as their ideas of His love, peace and "good news."

The kingdom of God isn't about isolated words like "good news" or unrighteous labeling like the "Bad News Camp." It's about the whole council of God from the whole Bible. It's about doing God's will, not human will. It's about testifying to all that is written, in harmony with everything else.

 What you do is easy. Anyone can do that. Lot's family laughed him to scorn when he spoke to them of the "bad News" that God's judgment of destruction was on the city and was coming. You think their reaction wasn't easy? It is the easiest thing in the world to mock and jeer. All Israel did that. But a band of "Rebel" Bereans decided they'd search the scriptures and check out this new teaching of Paul (which wasn't new or of Paul at all) to see if it had any merit.  Alas, they didn't take the easy way.

Acts 17:11-12
  • "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  • Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few."

My long-winded point being, you have added nothing to this discussion but your obvious disdain, misrepresentation and mockery. All of which is worth nothing.


Quote
>>>
..Poor souls, but His mercy endureth forever so there's still hope.
<<<

...and your arrogant mocking and dismissals of these saints as poor souls say more about you, than it does about them.


Quote
>>>
Let me ask you, was Satan bound when the LORD was saving all sorts of people before His death, burial, and resurrection?  If your answer is "NO" then tell me why any faithful child of GOD would think that when Satan is loosed for a little season that all of GOD'S elect must be saved because Satan is running wild again and he's got some new power which really messes up the LORD'S plan?
<<<

This is more of the proverbial "Straw Man" since nothing messes up the Lord's plans, nor does anyone here believe that. Likewise, Salvation doesn't end because Satan is loosed, Salvation ends because all Israel to be saved, "HAS" been saved. We all know what the true purpose of a Straw man is.

Revelation 7:3
  • "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."


Quote
>>>
How does the bad news camp glorify GOD by insisting that HE says HE isn't going to save anyone else during Great Tribulation  --  the world did not see the day when the LORD went to the cross, but the thief on HIS right was there with a ringside seat  --  what camp do you think he'd be in if he could join us? 
<<<

The camp of the saints is not divided. Nor is God's word ever wrong. So, when He says the earth cannot be hurt until after the 144,000 of Israel are sealed (saved), then that means there are "NO MORE" to be sealed/saved of Israel "after" that time. It's not rocket science!

Now why would the "Camp of the saints" deny that fact so that they can feel good about the people left unsaved, not because of God, but because of their own wickedness? Like the Prophet Micaiah, He could but prophesy what the Lord said, not what the king wanted to hear. Likewise, the camp of the saints today can but testify that when ALL Israel are eventually sealed, there will be no more left to seal. Yes, that's not what today's church wants to hear, but it is biblical truth. If Babylon has fallen, he can but say Babylon has fallen and has become a cage of unrighteousness. ...what more could he say?


Quote
>>>
Also, sure we're all wrong from time to time.  But let's not repeat the errors of the poor, bad news camp souls.
<<<

..come on, get a new act, this one's getting old fast and you're entertaining no one but yourself!


Quote
>>>
Let's not use Acts 27 and Revelation 7:1-4 as proof text for the world's most bogus, theological theory.  No salvation because Satan is loosed..
<<<

Again, a "Straw man," which usually means you have no real defense against the truth. The truth is, there is no Salvation because all of God's Israel has been sealed--according to God. God is long-suffering and saves "ALL" He chooses until there are not left that He chooses to save. It's called Sovereignty.  Moreover, it is God Himself that looses Satan. God is forever in control. You talk about Revelation 7, but that's what Revelation 7 actually illustrates. That God will continue to save until all Israel are saved. ...but you knew that. It just doesn't fit into your straw man scenario. Satan won't be loosed until all the Elect are Sealed! Why? Because God is patient to save every single soul that He intends to save (2nd Peter 3:9). So why loose Satan if it is the last day or the end of the world? ...because it's NOT!  If it's the last day, Satan is not loosed, he is cast into the lake of fire. Let's try and be logical.

2nd Peter 3:9
  • "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

God is patient, and won't loose Satan until all Israel has been sealed "that are to be sealed."


Quote
>>>
...you're correct, I have not read all of their theories.
<<<

Of course not, why read what someone has actually said before attempting to debunk it?  )Say_what(



Proverbs 18:13
  • "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

Better to just misrepresent them, build straw men, and of course there's always the good old red herring. Good Christian way to do things? Sure, and why have a trial to review evidence when we already know someone is guilty? Does that make a lot of sense? Like the Pharisees that Christ told to search the scriptures and who thought it better to just kill him and be done with it. Selah.

..as saith the Preacher, there is nothing new under the sun.

Matthew 12:36-37
  • "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
  • For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

You say you have not read what they've said, yet you condemn them with much venom and fervor. Fair enough. By your own words you are justified or condemned.


nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 627
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2006, 08:20:09 PM »
Hello Tony,

Is the vision given to John in Rev. 7 the same vision that God gave Ezekiel?

Eze 9:4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5  And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6  Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Thanks for any light you might be able to shed here.

Blessings,
Sandy
 

dad1057

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
  • saved by grace !
    • The True Grace of God
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2006, 09:57:36 PM »
Quote
Are you guys saying that the low numbers were a result of the fact that satan was running wild and preventing the LORD from doing His thing?

No I am not saying that, and erik I don`t believe is saying that, but this was Gods purpose , God can save many or few, it's up to him! God is Sovereign..

Quote
just a few being saved?

Did not you just read what happened in the time of Noah ? How many were saved ? How many people were on the earth @ that time. What about the time of Lot ? How many were saved from that city ? and what about verses like matt 7

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Those are Gods words not mind ;)
acts 20:  24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Dude

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2006, 10:24:48 PM »
First of all, there is no bad news camp here

Moderator


Your first sentence stopped me cold:

Erik and I are bonding at the moment, so rather than risk a breakup I'd better limit my response to the first and only sentence I've read:  You have to be kidding!  What is it, a problem with the semantics?  Here's Strong's Hebrew #4264  MACHANEH, Camp  -- Strong's Hebrew #1416 or #2428 for band would be better, which suits me fine:  bad news band  --  beautiful!

The moderator is not happy with me so I'd better be prim and proper.  

Dude

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2006, 10:27:57 PM »
Quote
Are you guys saying that the low numbers were a result of the fact that satan was running wild and preventing the LORD from doing His thing?

No I am not saying that, and erik I don`t believe is saying that, but this was Gods purpose , God can save many or few, it's up to him! God is Sovereign..

Quote
just a few being saved?

Did not you just read what happened in the time of Noah ? How many were saved ? How many people were on the earth @ that time. What about the time of Lot ? How many were saved from that city ? and what about verses like matt 7

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Those are Gods words not mind ;)


daddy-o


I was certain that you believed the way you say  --  but it's nice to hear it from time to time.

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2187
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2006, 10:54:56 PM »

Erik and I are bonding at the moment, so rather than risk a breakup I'd better limit my response to the first and only sentence I've read:  You have to be kidding!  What is it, a problem with the semantics?  Here's Strong's Hebrew #4264  MACHANEH, Camp  -- Strong's Hebrew #1416 or #2428 for band would be better, which suits me fine:  bad news band  --  beautiful!

 the moderator is not happy with me so I'd better be prim and proper.  


The Moderator is not amused.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Mentor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2006, 08:45:41 PM »
Erik Diamond wrote: 
Quote
The winter is a season of hardship, a time of no growth, meaning no salvation.  Christ warned us to pray that our flight is not in winter because in winter, it is too late for production.  As for harvest, it has come and gone. For exmaple, the season for growth is over and there is no more chance for salvation.

Excellent explanation. I have never heard that before.

Mentor

Erik Diamond

  • Affiliate Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2357
  • Gender: Male
  • We are to God the aroma of Christ. (Eph 5:2)
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2008, 10:42:03 AM »
My friend got my attention and asked about Matthew 24:20. 
 
  • But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Why is the word "day" be there after the word "sabbath" or did KJV translators add the word in?

Is the word "day" after sabbath in the greek text?

The Youngs Literal Translation says:

  • and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath;

My friend and I were wondering if it makes any different? 

Thank you,
Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

andreas

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 986
  • Gender: Male
  • Helpless, look to Thee for grace
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2008, 03:32:48 PM »
<<<Is the word "day" after sabbath in the greek text?>>>

(Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Matthew 24:20 proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde en sabbatw

As you can see, the word ,day, is not present in the Textus Receptus.

andreas.
kai ean diabainhs di¢ udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Melanie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
  • Gender: Female
  • 🌴"But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God. -Psalm 52:8"
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2018, 03:22:54 AM »
Stacia --
Winter and sabbath have to do with a time of no salvation. 
How do you figure that a Sabbath has to do with no salvation? A Sabbath is a holy day, is it not? What therefore is holy about no salvation? That's not a holy day.

This question never got answered so I'll put my two cents in here. The first part, "How do you figure that a Sabbath has to do with no salvation," has already been answered many times. The Sabbath is a holy rest, the time when all the work is finished. Salvation is a work of God.

The second part, "A Sabbath is a holy day, is it not? What therefore is holy about no salvation," I do not believe that is addressing the problem correctly. I believe everything that God does is Holy, and that would include his rest where he has ceased to seal anymore of Israel. When all Israel has been sealed, isn't that a holy rest? I believe so.

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. Exodus 31:14-17"

Christ is our Sabbath of rest, and our works end in him. Therefore when all Israel has been sealed, our work and his is finished. And seven signifies completion. Yes, it is a holy rest.


Dan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
  • Gender: Male
  • Dan the Man
Re: Pray your Flight be not in Winter, neither on the Sabbath Day
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2018, 09:35:11 AM »
Nonsense Melanie,

 Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(20) Pray ye that your flight . . .—Rules were given for flight where the conditions lay within their own power. Other incidents which lay outside their will might lawfully be the subjects of their prayers. It is characteristic of St. Matthew, as writing for Jews, that he alone records the words “nor on the Sabbath day.” Living as the Christians of Judæa did in the strict observance of the Law, they would either be hindered by their own scruples from going beyond a Sabbath day’s journey (about one English mile), which would be insufficient to place them out of the reach of danger, or would find impediments—gates shut, and the like—from the Sabbath observance of others.

George

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
  • I'm a llama!
 )Goodpoint(

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]