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Author Topic: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?  (Read 32128 times)

midas

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2006, 12:16:39 AM »

Do we have one foot in the world, and another in the kingdom?


Yes, many Christians? by day drive their sports cars, a body piercing or two, a tattoo here and there, suggestive clothing, fashion hairstyles all for the love of the world - By night they chat on Christian forums talking about the love of God, helping the poor and embracing differences in biblical interpretations  ... But that's OK because everyone sins, God is love, and forgives us when we pray ...

Revelation 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

You can't have it both ways ... Not even with a loving God ...


Kira

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2006, 10:29:49 AM »
Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha?

Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention?

Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self?


(Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)


Now that is a good question Dave. A very good question! I haven't read the answer, have you?

1 Peter 3:2-4
"While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price".

Better than the world's adornings of tattoos, nose and lip rings are the sprit of meekness and an incorruptible heart. The world's adornings should not be ours. I don't know why so many christians find that so difficult a thing to understand. Aren't we supposed to be different?

K I R A

Sojourner

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2006, 06:48:34 PM »
Obviously, like most free willers, you didn't hear a single solitary word that Tony said. Not a word! As for myself, I will stay with people who can receive truth and share in an environment of Biblical dialogue in true love. Thank you very much!  ::)



God's view of the word Love

 http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/god_view_of_love.shtml

Interesting reading. Right in line with what's going on here. Love versus love. This pastor seems to think it boils down to being obedient also. I think we miss the true meaning of love by only looking at the aspects of love, not the definition of love.

Did you know that receiving truth is an aspect of love? Well it is! How many do you know who show this aspect of love? Not many I'll bet!



Penne

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2006, 10:54:09 PM »
Lee,

Me too, I was too offensive with everyone.  I got the meaning of your post a day or so later.  I'm not the brightest star in the sky, hee  hee. 

Now about a born again having a tatoo and body piercing.  I do believe if they are truly born again the Holy Spirit will show them all truths and the born again will eventually do the righteous thing. 

Penne

Pamela

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2006, 01:39:08 AM »
Hi Lee!


Quote
Anyone want to respond to this? What if a person has body piercings and/or tatoos before they are born again. After that, it would be easy to take out the body piercings and not wear anymore, but what about the tatoo?? Do they go and get it removed, which we know is possible to do??


1 Corinthians 7:18  Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:19  Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Corinthians 7:23  You are bought with a price; be not the servants of men.

Romans 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Granted, tattoos are no good, but God looks at the inward man.  Plus Lee, we did have ALL our sins washed away when He died on the cross for us, didn't we?  So we have to remember that these were "washed" too.  We have a lot of judgmental people out there.  Especially "Christians"!  We need to remember where we were BEFORE we got saved, and what we were saved from, and NOT look at the mote in our brother's eye, but the BEAM  in our own eye! 

Matthew 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


John 7:24  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I still wear earrings.  Is that wrong?  I have never thought so.  ???  Let Him be the Judge.

By the way, I am NOT promoting tattoos or piercings.  I was just replying to the fact that IF we had them before we became a child of God, should we have them removed.  Amen?  My answer is if you feel convicted and have the financial ability to do so, then by all means.  Either way though, it is the inward man that God sees, and the inward man that serves the Lord. :)

God bless,
Pam





SEEN_CHA

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2007, 10:40:27 PM »
     I had my tongue, and a few other things that I would rather not mention, pierced before I was saved.  So I know first hand about it.  I will be right up front about this, I did it because everyone else was doing it, and yes IT DOES DRAW ATTENTION TO ONES SELF, and I wanted it to.  Now after I had become a Christian I took all my piercings out because I did not want someone to look at me and think he's a low life or he's trouble.  Like it or not that is the thoughts people have when they see someone like that, or they think that person must not respect their body enough to not abuse it.  So it was good bye piercings.  I can not see how getting a piercing will help me be a better example of a Christian.  I have to live in this world but I sure don't want people thinking I'm of this world, if they do than I'm doin something wrong. 
     
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

P.S.    I believe JESUS was pierced enough for all of us, don't you think?
GOD BLESS,
   SCOTT

Della

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2009, 12:35:18 PM »
P.S.    I believe JESUS was pierced enough for all of us, don't you think?


 Yes I do. Amen?  And glad you came out of that, friend.

Bear with me, this is my first real post with a question. I know I was warned this thread hasn't been posted to for many days, but since my daughter is also now asking if she can get a tattoo, I thought it was current enough to post again on this. What are the biblical reasons that I can tell my daughter why she shouldn't do this. I think it's terrible what's going on with women and tattoos these days, but I need some ammunition, because my daughter is a questioner and she will always ask why not. What should I tell her? Any help?


Trotter

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2009, 02:23:18 PM »
What are the biblical reasons that I can tell my daughter why she shouldn't do this. I think it's terrible what's going on with women and tattoos these days, but I need some ammunition, because my daughter is a questioner and she will always ask why not. What should I tell her? Any help?



Della, Tattoos and Body Piercings are a return to Paganism, which the Church today doesn''t mind anymore.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/other_studies/body_piercing_a_return_to_paganism.shtml

This article from Christian Action may help you in your search.


Apostolic

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2009, 09:01:42 AM »
I don't think having someone put rings in their nose is biblical, but there is nothing wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake. Nothing at all.

First of all, the passage from Leviticus DOES NOT APPLY. If you read the chapter of Leviticus (particularly the part where tattooing is discussed) you can clearly see that it was directed only to the Levites (the priests of God) because God called them to separate themselves and laid heavier expectations upon them. In addition to not tattooing themselves Levites were also instructed not to marry any woman who was not a virgin, to never taste wine (not even a drop), to never wear clothing that was a mix of fabric types (such as cotton & wool blends), to never eat pigs or rabbits or anything from the sea without scales or fins (so lobster, crabs, and clams are out), to never touch a dead body or dead animal unless it was in the course of a sacrifice ritual in the temple, never shave any spot on their head to baldness, nor trim their beards, nor shave any area on the sides of the head, never uncover their head, nor touch a women who is menstruating - ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbis adhere to many of these rules.

It is unfortunate that, of all the taboo items listed, it is primarily tattooing that is singled out and taken out of context because it is such a "hot" issue.

Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions. Paul said it best when he claimed that it was wrong to lay the heavy yoke of the law on gentiles when even the devoutest Pharisees were not capable of upholding it.

As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.


Halle

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2009, 09:53:15 AM »
SEEN_CHA, excellent point, and your actions shows that you love God more than the world.

Della, here is an excellent place to start.

 http://mountain-retreat.org/faq/should_christians_get_tattoos.html

 As one who went through that phase of wanting a tattoo, I can tell you I am so glad that I didn't get one. Of course, there is forgiveness for anyone having gotten these, as SEEN_CHA is a great example of one coming to truth. We don't have to be part of the world to live in the world.




Trotter

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2009, 11:49:01 AM »
As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.

That's what Christians say when they want to do something they know they shouldn't. When they want a divorce, when they want to party at a club with friends, when they want to go gambling, when the cuss and swear. Because this seems to cover all bases with my friends.  I asked a Christian woman why she played the lottery when she knows it's a sin, and she said, don't judge, the Lord knows my heart.
 What does that even mean? Can't we even say when something is a sin anymore?




midas

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2009, 01:35:58 PM »
I still liike my post on this question

 
Yes, many Christians? by day drive their sports cars, a body piercing or two, a tattoo here and there, suggestive clothing, fashion hairstyles all for the love of the world - By night they chat on Christian forums talking about the love of God, helping the poor and embracing differences in biblical interpretations  ... But that's OK because everyone sins, God is love, and forgives us when we pray ...

Revelation 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

You can't have it both ways ... Not even with a loving God ...

John

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2009, 01:38:02 PM »
Quote
Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions.


We are freed from the penalty under the Law for sin - which should condemn us. That freedom is in Christ, who took the penalty under the Law on our behalf (His elect). Because of this Paul can write that we are not under law but grace:

Rom 6:14-15
14 --  For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 --  What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!


If we are under grace then what does that imply? Paul says "What then?"  We are free to sin? Not at all. As Paul says, we have become "... enslaved to righteousness" and because we owe all our freedom to God, we have, "... become enslaved to God".

If we are enslaved to God we are obligated to obey the Word of God.

1Pe 2:16
16 --  as free, yet not using freedom as a cover for wickedness, but as bondservants of God.


What is a tattoo that makes some compelled to seek it? Where would you go to find men with tattoos? Are they gathered at the local library, are they kneeling in a church, or are tattoos found on clean-shaven executives? Not likely. It is in the bars, in biker clubs, gangs, prisons, thugs, prostitutes, fornicators, violent men, and loners, or any other "profession" that is by nature needing to proclaim their "freedom" from the Law.

We all must choose how we are going to present our identity, if we want to be part of the club we must dress and act "presentable". If we are cannibals it would do us no good to declare that we are embracing vegetarianism. If you want to be part of the hip crowd in one ethnic community you wear the proper cultural dress - or face being ostracized. You don't join a gang and wear a business suit, or enter corporate America in beard and leather pants, and so to be a first-rate rebel you must conform to the norm, so that you can fight against "the man" in the proper attire.

All this image-making, the hat backwards, baggy pants around the knees, tattoos and piercing and identity clothing is designed to proclaim which faction you identify with and thereby belong to so the 'rest of us' will respect you. And for what purpose? Well, because the group is greater in power and prestige than the individual. We identify with groups and harness the 'image' so that we can benefit from their perceived strengths. Tattoos communicate a rebellious personality because that is the group identity - it is a manufactured identity borrowed and on loan. It says "look at me"; see how I'm a tough guy without allegiance to anything but myself - so you better stand clear because I'm fearless.

1Jn 2:16
16 --  Because everything that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not from the Father but is from the world.


What is all this revolt really aimed at? In the first instance, anyone who has authority over you; these carefully cultivated 'images' work to say: "keep away". Without a word we understand the hat-backward, pants-around-the-knee kid stumbling down the sidewalk with one hand holding his jeans up is suffering through it all just so he can state publicly, "I don't bow to your authority". And who is the one that represents authority?

The rebel is ultimately fighting against the knowledge of God and his unwillingness to conform to God's Law is manifested by his display of his own self-power and fearlessness. Whether it's a cigarette, a bottle, a tattoo, hip clothing, piercings, or really any unusual or shocking behavior or dress -- all are by design meant to send the unspoken message "I'm not conformed" or rather "I'm conformed to a group of non-conformists". It also sends the message, "I'm at war with God and man and live in fear of both".

And what of the "Christian" - are we freed from the Law so that we can sip our sipping whisky, shoot pool in the bar or our choice, dress like the Fonz or perhaps Joe Camel with a cigarette hanging out our mouth, and like James Dean be the star rebel and troubled child - shall we throw in a few tattoos and piercings, a long beard and long hair - an unkempt look to sell the image, or if that isn't rebel-enough perhaps apply some Goth makeup or dye our hair orange, green, and pink to "shock" those conformist establishment types – for, it is said, we aren't under the Law but under Grace.

It's all a lost cause for the conformist - for they are forced to conform to the image of a non-conformist, which is conforming. But God calls His people to truly not-conform - that is to this world, for we must rather conform to His Son. Since we all must conform to something - it is the prudent person that chooses to conform to the likeness of His Creator - rather than conform superficially to a group that of itself is powerless and only has the 'image' of power. And if we conform to God's Son then we must leave behind as so much rubbish our childish 'identity' that we thought provided strength and power - for our power, strength, and identity, if we have faith, is properly understood to be in Christ and only Christ.

If our strength is in Christ, and we are humbled to obey our Master - then we will look at the robes of defiance that we used to wear and count them as filthy rags. We have put on the new man as Christians - and we discard the "former way of life" for it is "deceitful". Our conforming is to the "likeness of God" so that we obey the Commandments of God as we are increasingly sanctified by the Spirit of God.

Eph 4:20-24
20 --  But you did not thus learn Christ,
21 --  if indeed you have heard Him and were instructed by Him, just as the truth is in Jesus:
22 --  that you put off, concerning your former way of life, the old man which is being corrupted according to the deceitful lusts,
23 --  and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 --  and that you put on the new man which was created in the likeness of God, in true righteousness and holiness.


There is no room for displays of rebellion in our speech, dress, appearance, or behavior anymore - for in conforming to Christ we are by nature engaged in a different rebellion. We are now a rebel against the power of this world - and we adopt more so over time the 'image' of this new man - patterned after the heavenly image.

1Co 15:48-49
48 --  Like the man made of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 --  And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, let us also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 
So, the Christian appearance is not to be fixed to the external, to the fancies and needs of this world, to vain attempts at gaining worldly attention or meeting the desires of the old-man that wars against God. It is the humble, gentle, and quiet spirit that God will not despise. Since we must conform to something, conform to the image of God. And since likewise we must rebel against something - rebel against the deceitfulness and lies of this world.

1Jn 5:19-21
19 --  We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one.
20 --  And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true; and we are in Him that is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
21 --  Little children, guard yourselves from idols. Amen.


john
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

Tony Warren

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2009, 02:49:33 PM »
>>>
I don't think having someone put rings in their nose is biblical, but there is nothing wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake.
<<<

You are contradicting yourself, as you are saying it's about appearance, but nose rings to you are not biblical, but tattoos to you are perfectly biblical, based upon what? Appearance? Where does the Bible say Body Piercings do not have a good appearance but Tattoos do? Of course, what has happened is that you have made yourself the king maker, the judge of one being Biblical and the other not, based upon how you see them. I would rather let God be the judge, through his word, rather than my personal views, interpretations, opinions or modern fads.

The question in this thread that has never been answered by those supporting Christian's getting tattoos was by Dave Taylor:

Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha?
Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention?
Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self?
(Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)

Perhaps it has never been answered because the answer is more revealing than one would want. As for myself, I find it very strange that a true Christian would not be willing to sacrifice conforming to the world in getting tattoos, for the sake of Christ and unity. Very strange. But as you said, it's for appearance sake. Because for sure, even the unsaved know there is something wrong when they see so-called Christians full of tattoos. What positive service could that possibly be to the cause of Christ. It is self-evident that to conform to be like the world is not the mindset of those with the Spirit of Christ.

Romans 12:1
  • "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
  • And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

That's the key. The will of God, not our own. Sadly, today's Christians don't seem to know what sacrifice is. To them, sacrifice is what Christ did, not something they themselves should ever have to do. Present your bodies a living sacrifice to them is ...mere words. To them to sacrifice anything in their lives is tantamount to legalism.


Quote
>>>
Nothing at all.
<<<

Nothing at all wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake? That all depends upon if we live for Christ, or for ourselves.

1st Corinthians 10:31
  • "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

Whether we tattoo or do body piercing, do all to the Glory of God? Nothing at all wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake? Again, that all depends upon if we live for Christ, or the acceptance of the world. Yes, we can be like the world. The question is, should we.


Quote
>>>
First of all, the passage from Leviticus DOES NOT APPLY. If you read the chapter of Leviticus (particularly the part where tattooing is discussed) you can clearly see that it was directed only to the Levites (the priests of God) because God called them to separate themselves and laid heavier expectations upon them.
<<<

It's not just for Levites anymore than anything else in the Bible was written just for Levites. The "FACT" is, all of us, as true Christians, are as the Levites, a priestly people called out to separate ourselves, God having laid upon us heavier expectations than of the world. That's the whole point! Be ye separate! We are not to be like others who don't take our service to God seriously, we are to be sanctified priesthood, a holy people set-apart for the special service of God. That is the point. That we be separate from the world and all its corrupting influences. As the body of Christ, the only true Levite, we represent Christ on earth. And as such, we are bondservants or slaves of God, to do His will on earth. We belong to Him, so that our will is not our own.

Numbers 8:14
  • "Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine."

The Levites are a picture of the true Priests and servants of God doing His will "among" the rest of the house of Israel. the image of Christ on earth. Likewise, in Christ, the true believers are the Lord's Levites, separate from others who are not sanctified, who have not the Spirit of sacrifice, and who make excuses for everything that their own selfish will desires. That is the Point! A people separated by God and called to Priestly service as the body of Christ on earth.


Quote
>>>
In addition to not tattooing themselves Levites were also instructed not to marry any woman who was not a virgin,
<<<

You do know about types? This signified the Levites represented Christ, who is married to the bride, which is a virgin, clean from sin.

Matthew 25:1
  • "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom."

The Levites represent the body of Christ, who is betrothed to the virgin bride.

Quote
>>>
...to never taste wine (not even a drop),
<<<

Because wine symbolizes blood, and blood is the life which thing they were not to drink.

Proverbs 20:1
  • "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Genesis 9:3-4
  • "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
  • But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

Judges 13:4
  • "Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:"

Wine, signifying the blood, was an unclean thing to eat. And the children of God were to be separated from the unclean things. Thus the Priests, commissioned in service to God, were not to drink of any wine.


Quote
>>>
...to never wear clothing that was a mix of fabric types (such as cotton & wool blends),
<<<

Again, precisely the point. The two diverse threads signified God's people were as diverse from the people of the world as these two threads were. thus we should act accordingly! If you do a "careful" study of this you will find that this signified the Church of Israel were not to mix with the worldly nations around them, as this would change the fabric. Selah. That's the Point of not mixing diverse threads. Do we think God cares about types of literal thread? No, God is making a point that Christians try desperately to miss. And we need to understand this before we can understand why the Church is set apart, separated from the world. Why we shouldn't do as the world does, have music like the world does, raise our kids like the world does, teach the morals of the world, join in the fads, have no-fault divorce, and on and on. ...again, that is the WHOLE point!


Quote
>>>
...to never eat pigs or rabbits or anything from the sea without scales or fins (so lobster, crabs, and clams are out),
<<<

...again, the Point here is to stay away (separate yourself) from the unclean thing. God had appointed these things as "TYPES" signifying the unclean nations that they were to be separated from. Why do you think that when the Lord brought the Sheet to Peter with all the unclean animals on it, and Peter said He never ate unclean things? That precept was specifically signifying the separation between Jews and Gentiles, the clean and the unclean.

Acts 11:1-9
  • "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
  • And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
  • Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
  • But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
  • I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
  • Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
  • And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
  • But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
  • But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."

So we can look at the Old Testament laws in our vain attempt to justify modern heathen practices, and even in the name of beauty, commission or style, but the truth is that the scriptures do just the opposite. They confirm that God used it to signify that God's people were to be separate from these people and their worldly fads, gods, customs and heathen practices.

God shows us in Acts that the laws in Leviticus symbolized the Gentile nations that the Children of Israel were separated from, which Gentile nations God had now cleansed that they could now be part of Israel. Selah! Again, that separation of God's people is the whole point of Leviticus. God's people being separated from the people of the world. So many are missing the whole point of these things in Leviticus because they are so busy trying to justify their worldly behavior.


Quote
>>>
...to never touch a dead body or dead animal unless it was in the course of a sacrifice ritual in the temple, never shave any spot on their head to baldness, nor trim their beards, nor shave any area on the sides of the head, never uncover their head, nor touch a women who is menstruating - ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbis adhere to many of these rules.
<<<

Etc., etc., etc. Yes, and why? Because Israel in part is blinded, and cannot see the "Spiritual" truths of the types and shadows which these things prefigured. So what's the church's excuse? What's the Christian's excuse for not understanding Messiah is not coming to establish a earthly Kingdom, or that clean and unclean meats signified separation, or that the Holy Temple is the earthly representation of Christ, or a menstruating woman was ceremonially unclean to signify that same separation? I know Israel's excuse, but what is the Christian's excuse?

Matthew 13:15
  • "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing,.."

I tell you, it's not only Israel and the Jewish rabbis. For Christ Himself said many would come in that day, saying Lord, Lord, and thinking that they see clearly and that they are saved and that they had the truth. What is His (not mine) reply to them? What's the point? The point is, all that glimmers is not gold.

These ceremonies of Leviticus were all types signifying holiness and separation from the worldly practices. It's not a sin for anyone not to know this, the sin is the spirit of man to reject God's Spirit of truth. Whatsoever we do, do all to the glory of God. Truth or fable?

Maybe you can find some time someday to do an in-depth study of each one of Leviticus's precepts and understand God is talking about this holy separation of His people from the people of the world. A separation that they not emulate and take on their worldly customs and practices. The same as we're teaching about Tattoos and Body piercings. Nothing has changed, it's just that the Church today has long forgotten it is set apart a Diverse creation that doesn't follow the ways of the world in morality, divorce, fornication, honor, not tattoos and Body piercings. Where is the set apart, when the Church is so much like the world, one can LITERALLY not tell one groups practices from the other? Selah!

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It is unfortunate that, of all the taboo items listed, it is primarily tattooing that is singled out and taken out of context because it is such a "hot" issue.
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Number 1, because we are talking about tattooing, and number 2 I presume that is because to go through each item there sufficiently one would have to write a book, instead of responding "somewhat concisely" in a message forum format. That tattooing is not a Godly service is not ambiguous as some suppose, it is just that when one wants to justify something, it is easy to do so by claiming the word ambiguous on the matter.

Nevertheless, the WHOLE point of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy chapters, concerning all these things is the separation of God's people from these practices, traditions, gods and conventions of the heathen world that was around them. That's the point so many people choose to miss. Godís desire is to set his people apart from the worldly cultures. Holy essentially means "set apart." When we are sanctified as Christians, we are set apart for the service of God, as the Levite Priests were. That is God's desire and it hasn't changed. THAT, is the whole point God is making throughout the chapter. They were a special people who were "not:" to be like the word and follow after their traditions. Likewise, we are making the exact same point in speaking against the same heathenistic practices of tattooing and piercing that have become all the rage in the world. And "now" also in the House of the Lord. And the really sad part is the great number of professing Christians, ignorant of God's devices, that have fallen prey to the same errors that God in Leviticus warned against, and for the same reasons. Instead of preaching the tenants of separation, the kings of the earth preach acceptance in compromise unholy union. Not altogether unexpected, but saddening nonetheless.

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Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions.
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Typical response, and just as typically in error. The Spirit was not given to negate the law, but to expound and reveal it. The law stands. The law commands you not to murder. You think the law is abrogated? The fact is, we are freed from condemnation of the law, which doesn't mean that we sin that Grace may abound. In other words, just because we are free from the law doesn't mean we can steal, or murder or hate or lie, etc. So often Christians do not really understand what being free from the law means, and erroneously assign it to meaning we can do anything we like.

Romans 6:2
  • "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

We can't. We are a new creation with a new Spirit. Sin is the transgression of the law. So then, dead to the law does not mean that we have liberty to sin. The question is, do "real" Christians live in sin because they "think" it is all covered by Grace? And the answer is no. Thus we won't tattoo our body because we think that sin is all covered by Christian liberty or immunity from the law by Grace.


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Paul said it best when he claimed that it was wrong to lay the heavy yoke of the law on gentiles when even the devoutest Pharisees were not capable of upholding it.
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Salvation by law, not obedience. unfortunately, too many people don't know the difference between exhorting to obedience, and legalism. Truly, is it Legalism, or exhortation to obedience?

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/what_is_legalism.shtml

The Lord Judge. But one thing I can tell you is that you don't understand what Christ freeing us from the law means. It doesn't mean we can righteously do the stigmata thing, carve our body into shreds, tattoo all over it, pierce every place that is cuttable, etc., etc. claiming it's all Christian liberty. Whatever is not to the glory of God is sin. Yes, sins are forgiven, but that is not the question. The question is, shall we sin that grace may abound? if we think yes, then we must honestly ask ourselves if we are actually born of the Spirit.


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As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.
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Yeah, but like everything (and everyone) in this world, everyone thinks their heart is pure, thinks their ways are clean, thinks they are correct and God will understand. But without real communion with God through His Spirit, that sagacious thinking is in man's wisdom of the world, not God's wisdom. As it is written:

Proverbs 16:1-2
  • "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
  • All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."

Amen! His will be done! The Lord weighs the Spirit my friend, and not how clean we think our heart is. The Spirit of man must be moved by the Spirit of God in Him, else that spirit that won't pass the test of the weight balances of the Lord. vis-a-vis, if we love the Lord, we keep His commandments. Not in legalism, but in the Spirit of agape, which is the Spirit of obedience. That's God's definition of truth, love and charity that will tip the balances. But it is not man's. And that is the problem. Man wants his will, which is the way of the world. But as they say, no sacrifice, no victory. we take up our cross and follow Him, not the world. Selah.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Erik Diamond

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Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2009, 03:17:44 PM »
Although I don't agree with everything Pastor Craig Gross, known as "Porn Pastor" do, but I can agree his assessment that many traditional churches often preach a "message of intolerance"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/porn-pastor-offers-love-gays-outcasts/story?id=8494496

That is why many churches are falling because of message of intolerance with worldly images and abominations. Including tattoos!

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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