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Author Topic: Should We Spank Our Children  (Read 64526 times)

Fear_God

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #90 on: February 19, 2007, 10:50:26 PM »
Greetings,

I went through most of what was said on this thread and I could not believe so much can be said on one subject! I shall just add a testimonish type thing.

I come from a family of 11 (My Dad and Mom and 2 sisters and 6 brothers) and I have found (personal experience) that disciplining a child with the rod is probably the best way. I obviously have not had children (only 16) but from the way I see it in the family it has helped.

My Father does not administer the rod any more though not because he has changed his view on it. The last three of my brothers have not had all that much discipline and if you witnessed them you could tell. They are not what I would call "brats" but I would say that they have less respect for commands and rules that my Dad has set up. I do not suffer physiological problems (strange isn't it?) and see the significance of applying the rod. Have not been spanked for some time, though I know that I should have in last 4 years (last time I was spanked was by my Mom, so much for woman being more Christ-like {joking}).

Perhaps the Scriptures have provided the best way for raising a child, and it appears that those verses have been brought forth several times. Scripture alone. Thanks for the posts folks! Very enlightening.

In Christ.



Eccl 12:13-14:

13  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Sandy

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2007, 01:02:02 PM »
Greetings All,

I thought I was finished with this particular thread but, I find it necessary to once again defend the statements I’ve made here.  This thread has been used to call me a liar, so I must answer to such serious, ungodly charges.  The purpose of my joining in this discussion was seeing how some responded to other believers who not only say spanking is unbiblical, but that it is even abusive behavior.  I probably would have stayed out of the discussion altogether since I had for more than three years, if the discussion had not become one centered on a very prevalent attitude by some in this community.  That attitude is that if anyone dares to disagree with some of you then they are liars, heretics, and unsaved. 

Robert Powell charged me with lying because I had taken comments made, out of context to make the point that we must allow some disagreement (liberties) over disputable matters.  If Robert had simply said something like, I understand your reasoning, but where do you get off taking comments out of context to make your point?  Then we could have engaged in civil discussion and hopefully come to like-mindedness about how we should engage one another in these forums.  But, Robert revealed a bit more, and went too far in his accusations when he said, “No, what you did was lied or bore false witness against those posting to you to make it seem like they were saying spanking was the only way to handle children, which none of them said. Not one of them made any such comments.” 

Robert’s comments cannot relate to me taking comments out of context, how could they since he clearly saw that I had readily admitted to having done this.  I can only conclude that he calls me a liar from the position that no one in this thread has claimed that anyone who does not spank their children show they are not following the word of God, but instead are following the ways of the world through advise from Oprah Winfrey, or that spanking is the only way.  Like so many of you who so easily forget what you say, Robert’s own words prove he too has done exactly what I have said.  You can read his words for yourself in reply #50, for I dare not be accused of taking his remarks out of context.   

So the argument goes, we must spank or we are not doing it God’s way.  And it is further implied that if we do not spank we are probably not even Christians.  Where did we get this word “spank?”  It certainly isn’t found on the pages of Scripture.  I suggest that man came up with this word “spanking” because it sounds so less harsh then what the Word of God actually commands parents to do.  God calls us to “beat” our children with a “rod.”  Beating sounds so harsh, how can we as loving Christian parents engage in the act of beating the children we love, the children whom God has graciously placed in our care?  Oh yes, we had to come up with a word that better suits our consciences.  But Christians are commanded to beat the child!  Why are we tip toeing around this obvious fact.  Many of you have used this passage from Proverbs to prove unequivocally that spanking is commanded in Scripture.   

Pr 23:12  ¶ Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
Pr 23:13  Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pr 23:14  Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. 

Is it true that beating a child with a rod will not kill him?  It’s not true if you use the literal rod in the sense many of you are attempting to.  There are many people behind bars today who have used a literal rod in some form or fashion, and beaten their own children to death.  So how can God be telling us that beating our child with a literal rod will not kill our child, when we know without doubt that it most certainly could?  The confusion is cleared up when we read in context the following verse which tells us the rod we are to beat them with is the same rod that will deliver his soul from hell. 

Is there evidence to show that those who have been beaten or spanked with a literal rod have been delivered from hell?  I like what Lori had to say when she said, “You can't spank "the sin nature" out of any child or adult for that matter.”  This is so true.  Why would we think that spanking our child with a literal rod will somehow make them love the Lord.  Again, Lori gives us the sound reason for disciplining (spanking) our children, “So, what is the main reason to spank our children other than to point them to the sin in their hearts? It is to be obedient to the Word of God.”

So what is this “rod” we are to beat our child with, that will not kill him, but will deliver their soul from hell?  The word “instruction” in vs. 12 is the same exact Hebrew word as “correction” in vs. 13.  If we “beat” our child with the Word of knowledge, if we instruct them in the paths of righteousness from the earliest age, then this “rod” of correction, or measure of discipline will be with them wherever they go, and it will not kill them, but will deliver their souls.  This, my friends is the beating with which we are to administer to our beloved children.  We have the promise of God:

Pr 22:6  Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Does this mean that any form of corporal punishment is without merit, or even unbiblical?  I would argue absolutely not!  In fact if you refuse to “beat” your child with the “rod” of correction that can deliver his/her soul from hell, then I pray to God that you spank them soundly.  Because children today aren’t worse because they are not being spanked, children today are worse because they are not being “beaten” with the TRUE “rod” of correction.  The ungodly children in our society today come from homes where parents not only do not administer the biblical rod of correction, but they do not administer any discipline at all.  How can we criticize parents who choose to do it the way that God has commanded?  Do they do it perfectly?  Do we do it perfectly?  We seek to help, exhort, and encourage one another in coming to a better understanding of the ways of God.  How are we doing this when we cannot allow for anyone to disagree with what we believe the Word tells us?  I’m simply asking that you show others the same compassion you wish to receive. 

Many Blessings,
Sandy   

Colleen

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2007, 02:59:33 PM »
You'll all have to forgive Sandy. She can't help herself.

 Hebrews 13:18
 "Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly".

Penne

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2007, 03:09:53 PM »
Greetings Robert,

How is it deceitful when one admits to taking something out of context?  Since I was honest you consider me to be deceitful?  To my way of thinking that is odd.

To your way of thinking it may be odd, but it's obvious to the rest of us.  I wonder if the criminals in prison know about this little secret... ADMIT to the crime to be found NOT GUILTY.

How can I be bearing false witness against those posting when I very deliberately left out the names of those I quoted?  Who am I bearing false witness against?  If none of those I quoted had made the comments, how could I quote them?  It was not my purpose to bear false witness against a brother or sister in Christ.  If I had wanted to do that I most definitely would have used their names. 

I don't know how it looks from your side but on my side I get to read all the previous replies.

I’m really sorry that my post caused you to respond in the manner you did.  It is always wrong to say or do something that would cause your brother to stumble.  Had I known that my response would have been so misunderstood, then I would not have posted it.     

Sandy, your brother didn't stumble.  You did.

So the argument goes, we must spank or we are not doing it God’s way.     

Are you serious?  That's not the argument!  That may be what you're trying to make it out to be, but it's about "Should We Spank Our Children."

even though the Bible clearly suggests a good old fashioned spanking is not only at times necessary, but gets to the very SEAT of the problem.   ;)

Oh... the Bible does suggest it, but we shouldn't tell other christian parents the Bible suggest a spanking? 

Glenda

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2007, 11:07:13 PM »
Pro 1:7   The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. 
Pro 1:8   My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:  
Pro 1:9   For they [shall be] an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck. 

These proverbs were written to christians, along with the ones about beating, sparing the rod ect.  I was just thinking, what if  this day and time kids (my son) listened to the instruction of their fathers and mothers ?  Most fathers and mothers today certainly don't have any wisdom or instruction to give. Even the "christian" parents today are so full of "dont hurt their self esteem, build up the little kiddo's , make them think the world revolves around them .
 I'm from the school of " kids should be seen not heard", and "speak when spoken to" which today in our society, is child abuse. I get so agrivated when I'm having a conversation with an adult and the kids listen and interject in the conversation like their grown, and the parent just lets them.
 I dont really have anything to add to the discussion, I guess I was just thinking in print about how far our society has slid down the tubes.
Glenda :'(
And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Daniel 4:35

Colleen

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2007, 07:38:59 AM »
Pro 1:7   The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. 
Pro 1:8   My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:  
Pro 1:9   For they [shall be] an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck. 

These proverbs were written to christians, along with the ones about beating, sparing the rod ect.  I was just thinking, what if  this day and time kids (my son) listened to the instruction of their fathers and mothers ?  Most fathers and mothers today certainly don't have any wisdom or instruction to give. Even the "christian" parents today are so full of "dont hurt their self esteem, build up the little kiddo's , make them think the world revolves around them . ''


Amen Glenda. I think it is partly because parents today are trying to buy their children's love instead of earning it. They spoil them by giving them everything they want. They won't even let them walk to school three blocks away, allow them to play video games 6 hours straight, and then wonder why they are antisocial, fat and lazy. And they have forsaken the wisdom that has always been in God's instruction. The bottom line is that they think that they know bettter than the word of God in what is best for their children. we've seen that attitude in this forum and in this thread. By the time they figure out that it's not working, it's too late for the children and the seed has been sown. Could it be that the children that are grown today are disrespecting their parents by not raising their children as they were raised? Thinking there is a better way because the people on television say that there is? Is television a form of brainwashing?


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I dont really have anything to add to the discussion, I guess I was just thinking in print about how far our society has slid down the tubes.
Glenda :'(



There are those who would argue that society has not slidden anywhere and the children today are better and smarter and more educated than they ever were, but I am not one of them.  I think you'd have to be blind to not see the difference in love, respect and honor from the behavior of children of today versus previous generations.


Sandy

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2007, 10:40:50 AM »
Greetings Robert,
How is it deceitful when one admits to taking something out of context? Since I was honest you consider me to be deceitful? To my way of thinking that is odd.
To your way of thinking it may be odd, but it's obvious to the rest of us. I wonder if the criminals in prison know about this little secret... ADMIT to the crime to be found NOT GUILTY.

If I am misunderstanding what you are saying here please forgive me, but the way I read this is that you are likening me taking comments out of context to make a point to criminal behavior? It this is what you are saying, I would respond by saying that this is a very common practice in this community, I've seen this done time and again, so I guess we criminal minds are in good company. The only difference between my having done this, and others is that I readily admit it, and I believe you are saying that makes me guilty of a crime?

I don't know how it looks from your side but on my side I get to read all the previous replies.

What exactly are you implying here? Did I not know that when I said, "I very deliberately left out the names"?

I’m really sorry that my post caused you to respond in the manner you did. It is always wrong to say or do something that would cause your brother to stumble. Had I known that my response would have been so misunderstood, then I would not have posted it.
Sandy, your brother didn't stumble. You did.

When is it ever glorifying God to call a brother or sister in the Lord a liar?  Is this no longer considered sinfulness?

Are you serious? That's not the argument! That may be what you're trying to make it out to be, but it's about "Should We Spank Our Children."
Quote

Yes the post is on "Should We Spank Our Children" What has happened to those who say "no" from their own Biblical understanding? Whether you want to admit it or not, as you have pointed out all the reply's are here to show how Godly parents who disagree with the opinion that the Bible teaches us to spank our children have been ridiculed beyond even a small measure of love. This is what I found so offensive in this particular thread. I did not deliberately set out to offend people here, but I did want to show a real lack of Christian love toward others. This is what has caused this great non Christ-like response. Your responses toward me on this topic prove conclusively the prevalent thing I find so troubling. My only mistake was in thinking that somehow I could show how uncharitable we can sometimes become when posting.

The whole point is that the Bible only suggests "spanking" it is not commanded.  Why is it considered so wrong to leave room for Christian parents who only see what the Bible commands, which is "to BEAT the child with a ROD"?

Sandy

Penne

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2007, 01:14:19 PM »
Sandy,

You know as well as I do this conversation would never take place 50-100 years ago.  It is only because of all the current psychology that now we wonder if spanking is a good idea.  We wonder if our children will be psychologically damaged or if they will turn out to abuse someone out of anger.  There are even those Christians who claim spanking is unloving and unbiblical. This is my position on this entire topic that spanking is not unloving or unbiblical.  This position may offend some christian parents, but that’s ok.  I find that most of the Bible does offend those same Christians.

Penne

Beechwood

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2007, 05:33:43 PM »

Quote
Are you serious? That's not the argument! That may be what you're trying to make it out to be, but it's about "Should We Spank Our Children."

Yes the post is on "Should We Spank Our Children" What has happened to those who say "no" from their own Biblical understanding? Whether you want to admit it or not, as you have pointed out all the reply's are here to show how Godly parents who disagree with the opinion that the Bible teaches us to spank our children have been ridiculed beyond even a small measure of love.

So to disagree with God as the world does is considered love by you, and to agree with him and actually say he is right about rearing children is like ridicule, and having no love? I have never heard such ba-lon-ey in all my time as a christian. You can't disagree with what God says. That's like claiming that when God says, "thy shalt not steal" Godly christians can disagree with it because the world is full of God fearing thieves. It's a fool hearty argument. The 99.9 percent of Christians (the real ones) here who agree with God that spanking can be an effective training tool are in love with God. The rest are not reading the bible, are not teaching love in any way, but instruction from their own personal opinions.


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This is what I found so offensive in this particular thread. I did not deliberately set out to offend people here,

How in the world did you think that taking people's words out of context, whether mentioning their names or not,  would not offend them? Are you crazy? People know what they said, and so does everyone else. You think doing something wrong and then admitting to it makes it OK?

Sandy, perhaps you need to have a talk with a loving Pastor, Elder or Minister about your problem. Maybe even see a professional. I mean that sincerely!

 Love,
  Beachwood


abbiegirl

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2007, 08:50:09 AM »
Sandy,

You know as well as I do this conversation would never take place 50-100 years ago.  It is only because of all the current psychology that now we wonder if spanking is a good idea.  We wonder if our children will be psychologically damaged or if they will turn out to abuse someone out of anger.  There are even those Christians who claim spanking is unloving and unbiblical. This is my position on this entire topic that spanking is not unloving or unbiblical.  This position may offend some christian parents, but that’s ok.  I find that most of the Bible does offend those same Christians.

Pene



I would agree that we would not be discussing this 50-100 years ago but perhaps they should have. They also did not discuss other issues such as sexual abuse, slavery, abortion, and homosexuality all of which were part of the culture then.  That is not really a valid argument because God has given us direction in His Word which never changes.  He always gives clear direction for all His commands - it is the sin and selfishness of mankind who has perverted the boundaries set by God always. The saddest part is when children get caught in the middle of so much injustice and degradation.  Sin used to be behind closed doors and easier to distance oneself from 50-100 years ago, to protect the innocent  but fast forward to today and media has changed all of that. Keeping our kids safe and protected is much more difficult than ever. Loving discipline including spanking is certainly commanded by God and allowed for Godly parents to administer as warranted. The difference is between loving , correctional discipline versus outright child abuse committed by parents out of anger and many times in altered mental status   ( drunkeness, drug abuse, etc...).    There is a huge difference.

  Luke 17:1-2   Then He said to the disciples,   " It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Could anyone find fault with the boundaries given by our Lord?

Respectfully,

Abbiegirl

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2007, 12:01:44 PM »
I would agree that we would not be discussing this 50-100 years ago but perhaps they should have. They also did not discuss other issues such as sexual abuse, slavery, abortion,
Abbiegirl

Abbiegirl,
  This isn't a discussion about child abuse, and you know it. If you want to start a discussion about child abuse, by all means you are free to do so. You know that too. But this isn't what this discussion is about. It's about "should we spank our children".

 I really find it distasteful when people deliberately try to take the discussion away from what was intended. It happens a lot lately, and I think we should be more careful. Not saying that yours was deliberate. But why not start a thread on "child abuse" if that is what you want to discuss. Christian spanking has nothing to do with child abuse. If I see anyone practicing child abuse, I'll report them, myself. But there are christians who say we shouldn't be allowed to spank our own children anymore. And there is a law that is being set up in California to make it illegal to do so. Not child abuse, but to spank. That is what this discussion was all about. Can you and sandy try and stay on topic?

Thanks!

Sandy

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #101 on: February 25, 2007, 02:42:55 PM »
Greetings Beechwood,

What CHRISTIAN posting in this thread has said we are to disagree with God as the world does?  The problem with how you say you agree with what God says is right when it comes to child rearing is that you show time and again that you yourself do not have a proper understanding of what God says is right.  As proof of this you cling to a literal rod as though God is actually instructing parents to “beat” their children with a literal rod, and this will not kill them? 

In this entire thread, beginning in 2003, I think I recall only one or two posters who say that spanking is NEVER to be used when disciplining our children.  Again, you prove what I have stated when you say only “real Christians” agree with God that spanking can be an effective training tool.  You determine who is a “real” Christian, and in love with God exactly how?         

I should make some clarification here.  When I said I used people’s comments out of context, I was NOT saying that I mischaracterized what anyone had said.  Please understand me clearly here.  I DID NOT MISCHARACTERIZE ANYONE IN THIS THREAD.  I know that’s the common understanding when people use other’s words out of context.  This common practice here, with the added little bonus of mischaracterizing has happened to my own replies far more often then I care to remember.  I too find this dishonorable, and offensive.  Which is exactly why I did NOT MISCHARACTERIZE anyone here.  I probably could have been more clear if I had simply said that I had used other’s out of context comments to make the point that this topic was no longer about “should we spank“, but had instead become, “all Christians should spank, and if they don’t they are unbiblical, and disciplining according to the way of the world.”  Of course anyone could easily see what I had done if they had wanted to see it.

Beechwood, I do appreciate your concern for my spiritual well-being, but I wonder if you are able to clearly discern your own heart?  The reason I ask is because of the unloving, judgmental attitude you expressed toward a brother in Christ on this topic.  I know its easy to forget things we said years ago, perhaps it is this attitude toward Christians who disagree with how you interpret God’s Word on disciplining that has kept you from seeing the point I felt needed to be made on this subject? 

Whatever you do unto them, you do unto Him.
I am thankful that you aren't bringing up my children. They are proof that they can be brought up without physical harm.


You must be one of those people who privately interpret scripture to mean anything they want. Because clearly, God says that disciplining children this way is not only permissible, but should be used for correction when necessary. You in effect are saying, you don't care what God says, you don't feel it's right so that's that. Not the right response to be Christian. I think God knows more about children than you and the media does.


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To each their own. Just in my opinion, you don't have to hit them to teach them.
In His Love.

To each unsaved person his own. But to Christians, God's own. Not our will but his will. Not what seems right in our own eyes, but what is right in God's eyes. Not what modern culture teaches, but what God's word teaches. It's the difference between biblical christians and pseudo christians.

PS, No one said you have to hit them to teach them. Don't change the subject.

Tony Warren

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #102 on: February 25, 2007, 04:23:25 PM »
>>>
Abbiegirl,
  This isn't a discussion about child abuse, and you know it. If you want to start a discussion about child abuse, by all means you are free to do so. You know that too. But this isn't what this discussion is about. It's about "should we spank our children".
<<<

Good Point! It seems no matter how many times we try to stay on topic, someone wants to distract from the original point to their own issues outside of what is being discussed. Perhaps because if the topic was child abuse, we all would be in agreement, so let's just label spanking,  "child Abuse" and say, "How Terrible!"

 I would ask everyone to stay on topic, or start a new thread. And since some people are hard of hearing, Sandy, this includes you.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #103 on: February 25, 2007, 04:38:30 PM »
>>>
Greetings Beechwood,

In this entire thread, beginning in 2003, I think I recall only one or two posters who say that spanking is NEVER to be used when disciplining our children.
<<<

Of course not. Now why would any REAL Christian say that, when it would be a total contradiction of what God says. As Beechwood said, the 99.9 percent of Christians accepting God's word of truth are the "real" Christians. I concur. The ones who humbly receive God's instructions rather than in rebellions twist them to suit their own will. The Christians who are honest with themselves receives God's word with all readiness of mind, and search the scriptures to see whether these things are so. Remember what God says of them?

2nd Corinthians 4:2
  • "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

You see, "real" Christians do have a conscience, which leads them to receive what God says. While lip-service Christians have a seared conscience wherein they delude themselves in their dishonest behavior.


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>>>
Again, you prove what I have stated when you say only "real Christians" agree with God that spanking can be an effective training tool.
<<<


Let me get this straight. You mean "REAL Christians" wouldn't agree?

I guess it all depends upon our definition of real Christians. The worldly definition of anyone who professes Christ, or God's definition of Real Christians who are faithful? Because they are two different animals. I think Beechwood uses God's definition, and I would agree. REAL Christians humbly surrender and agree with God, that spanking can be an effective training tool. Absolutely! By contrast, false Christians are obstinate, disobedient types, who in effect call God a liar by denying that what He inspired written is true.

Titus 1:16
  • "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Having a certain form or fashion of outward Godliness, but denying the power of the word. They claim that they know God, but it's their fruits, their works that give them away Sandy. They are characterized by their works of obedience or of disobedience. By their receiving or their ignoring the word. By their faithfully following or their unfaithfully attempting to lead alongside modernist philosophies.


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>>>
...You determine who is a ôrealö Christian, and in love with God exactly how?         
<<<

No...

1st John 4:1
  • "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Neither I nor anyone else determines who a Christian is. But we are comnmanded by God to try, test or prove the Spirits sandy, or didn't you know that was part of the Bible also? The fact is, if a tree brings forth corruption, then it's pretty plain that it's not a good tree, isn't it? Likewise, when professing Christians adulterate, ignore, twist and deny the word of God, they show forth their corruption, do they not? We prove or try the Spirits by what comes out of their mouths against the word of God. It's not rocket science. How do we know them? By their fruits! We try them!

Matthew 7:16-20
  • "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
  • Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
  • A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
  • Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
  • Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

In short, as God informs us "we shall know them by their fruits!" If you have a beef with that, I suggest that you argue with God in your next prayer!


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This common practice here, with the added little bonus of mischaracterizing has happened to my own replies far more often then I care to remember.  I too find this dishonorable, and offensive.
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Yeah, yeah, if only some of these scoundrels would quote you word for word....   ::)


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 I probably could have been more clear if I had simply said that I had used otherÆs out of context comments to make the point that this topic was no longer about ôshould we spankô, but had instead become, ôall Christians should spank,
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Oh, so that's what you were trying to do?  Silly us, we should have known you had good intentions.


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...perhaps it is this attitude toward Christians who disagree with how you interpret GodÆs Word on disciplining that has kept you from seeing the point I felt needed to be made on this subject?
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...but that's just the problem. What God says needs neither interpretation, nor RE-interpretation from you. The intent of God's words about discipline of children have been clear to every Christian for thousands and thousands of years! Selah!  Maybe you didn't hear me.

 ...THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of years!

Even clear to the atheists who bemoan God saying it. But strangely enough, in this time of Apostasy in the Churches, it now becomes not-so-clear and needing to be re-interpreted to not mean physical punishment at all, by professing Christians?  That's a Joke! You call plain words "our interpretation," and your (ahem) SPIRITUALIZING it away, not a private interpretation.  The rest (Beechwood's 99.9%) call it wresting or twisting God's word.  Real Christians have a conscience against doing such things, much less doing them continually as a regular practice. That's called a track record.


nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Fear_God

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Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #104 on: February 25, 2007, 10:15:41 PM »
Hello Mrs. Sandy,

You wrote: Is there evidence to show that those who have been beaten or spanked with a literal rod have been delivered from hell?

The spanking itself does not save a child from hell, but just like preaching, it is His mode to teach a child when he has done something naughty, and if God has chosen that child to be saved it will likely be through those means of discipline along with His Word (that is if the child is raised in a Christian home I warrant that many unbelievers were not beaten with the rod when they were a child, and as such God deals with them in a much different manner, such as the preaching of His Word).

You wrote also: I like what Lori had to say when she said, “You can't spank "the sin nature" out of any child or adult for that matter.”  This is so true.

Only God can save a child, and He has ordained a certain method; beating with a rod in instruction and His Word for further correction. Obviously beating does not drive out the sin nature, only through His Son is their Salvation from hell and sin. The rod, if administered rightly, will strike the fear of God in the child's (and no, not the fear of his dad) heart if it is accompanied by the Grace of God.

You wrote: Why would we think that spanking our child with a literal rod will somehow make them love the Lord.  Again, Lori gives us the sound reason for disciplining (spanking) our children, “So, what is the main reason to spank our children other than to point them to the sin in their hearts? It is to be obedient to the Word of God.”

Quite simply, because God said. Most, if not all of the language in Proverbs is literal not figurative. There is nothing wrong with beating a child. It is commanded. The child will not die if you beat him with the rod this is Scriptural, and common sense. A 3/8th inch dowel smacked on the rear of a child a dozen and a half times will not kill him (this may seem a bit tame considering the amount of disobedience, since I would think that some of the ways I back talked my Dad would call for more). I am living proof of that it does not kill you (bless God!). Obedience to God's Word is definitely a necessity, but what are His means? Does not God chasten us when we sin? (Hebrew 5:6-9:  And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: (6)  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (7)  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? (8)  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (9)  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?). God lays the same principle down for raising children.
Eccl 12:13-14:

13  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 


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