[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Should We Spank Our Children  (Read 64518 times)

Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2007, 06:47:47 PM »

 Hallelujah!  And this is what these new-age christians can't seem to understand. That when God says something is right and good, it's not up for debate.

No, but your interepretation is. I think there's more pressure for males, because of their egoes, to have quick-fix answers to problems with children. And they have interpreted scripture so that spanking looks like the quick fix bandaid. On the other hand, Women, and particularly mothers, are usually more inclined to be more christlike, to use love, and want to do what will work best down the road.

From reading some posts here, I see that the women here are far more caring about people, more loving, more christlike and compassionate than the men. They use their head rather than the bible as a stick.

So let me speak to you. Why not ask you husbands if he would consider it acceptable to hit you if you made a mistake, disagreed with him, or he was simply angry at you? If he says no (and he'd better), point out that it is even less fair to hit a child than an adult. That is in doing what is right.

I would like to make it crystal clear that contrary to what some people might say, spanking is NOT Christian! I would especially like to make this clear to all those spank happy Southern Baptists! The passages in Proverbs about the rod, if you take it literally what it actually is referring to is flogging which is done across the back.

Greetings Betty,

Welcome to the community.  I think the problem arises because so many unsaved parents, who view their blessed children as "in their way" and show very little patience and loving discipline, often resort to beating a child, rather then administering loving discipline.  And NO, the rod of discipline through loving, Christian parents is not necessarily speaking of physical punishment.  I know the verses already given about the "rod" of correction, but you do make a good point.  How shall we deal with the following verses?  Shall we literally follow these instructions of Scripture as well?

Ex 21:15  And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Ex 21:17  And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

De 21:18  If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
De 21:19  Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
De 21:20  And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
De 21:21  And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Mt 15:4  For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Many Blessings,
Sandy

Penne

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
  • Gender: Female
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2007, 11:46:08 PM »
Betty (Quote)
No, but your interepretation is. I think there's more pressure for males, because of their egoes, to have quick-fix answers to problems with children. And they have interpreted scripture so that spanking looks like the quick fix bandaid. On the other hand, Women, and particularly mothers, are usually more inclined to be more christlike, to use love, and want to do what will work best down the road.

Where do you acquire your philosophy from, Oprah?  This may be true if ALL men spanked and All women were saved making us all in reality Christ-like.  Not all men look for an immediate quick fix, at least not most of the men I know.  You make it sound like women/mothers are all Christ-like because of our maternal inclinations.  Nothing could be farther from the truth and there certainly aren’t any Scriptures to back up your accusation.



So let me speak to you. Why not ask you husbands if he would consider it acceptable to hit you if you made a mistake, disagreed with him, or he was simply angry at you? If he says no (and he'd better), point out that it is even less fair to hit a child than an adult. That is in doing what is right.


My husband is not my parent, therefore he does not discipline me neither do I discipline him.  We are a team rearing our children.  We do not spank out of anger or when they disagree us.  You can not compare a husband beating his wife to a parent chastising his child.  It is ridiculous and you know it is. 

I would like to make it crystal clear that contrary to what some people might say, spanking is NOT Christian!


Provide Scripture showing spanking is not Christian.  What merit do you have to declare (crystal clearly) it isn’t Biblical?  You may choose to spank or not, but please don’t tell me it isn’t biblical without backing it up with Scripture or else you’re adding to the Word of God.
Rev. 22:18, “…If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

Rose

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • De 8:8 "A land of oil olive, and honey.."
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2007, 08:24:30 AM »
I would like to make it crystal clear that contrary to what some people might say, spanking is NOT Christian! I would especially like to make this clear to all those spank happy Southern Baptists! The passages in Proverbs about the rod, if you take it literally what it actually is referring to is flogging which is done across the back.

Spank happy southern baptists? Well that is really a generalization, isn't it? There is no one group that spanks. A good question should be, if this law passes, will christians continue to spank their children against the law? Will anyone here violate the law? Will that then be a violation of God's law to be obedient to civil law? I don't know.

"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

midas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2007, 12:55:17 AM »
What does GOD say about his laws and government laws and who should we abide by?


Romans 13:1-5  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Christians should be 'law abiding' citizens. God has set 'governments' in this world to make laws and to enforce them to keep order in society. A Christian should be obedient of such man made laws (that don't conflict with the Word of God) What does God say if government laws conflict with Gods law?

Acts 5:29  Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

When God's law and man's law conflict, the saints of God must obey God.*


Acts 4:19-20  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

In these verses, the apostles Peter and John had been commanded by the government to no longer speak or teach about the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter and John knew it was against God's law to not speak about Jesus Christ, so they did not submit to the government authority.








judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2007, 05:30:56 AM »

I think the problem arises because so many unsaved parents, who view their blessed children as "in their way" and show very little patience and loving discipline, often resort to beating a child, rather then administering loving discipline.  And NO, the rod of discipline through loving, Christian parents is not necessarily speaking of physical punishment.  I know the verses already given about the "rod" of correction, but you do make a good point.  How shall we deal with the following verses?  Shall we literally follow these instructions of Scripture as well?

Ex 21:15  And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Ex 21:17  And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

De 21:18  If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
De 21:19  Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
De 21:20  And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
De 21:21  And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Mt 15:4  For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.


Sandy, you're mixing apples with oranges here.  You must know that many OT laws are pointing to a higher spiritual truth concerning some aspect of the Gospel.  The passages you quoted are no longer to be taken literally, but the underlying spiritual lesson remains -- namely that disobedience to our spiritual Father ultimately leads to spiritual death/eternal damnation.   Thus each verse of this nature needs to be viewed in light of and in harmony with the whole Bible.

A parent who loves their child should follow the same biblical principles that God demonstrates towards His children -- whose love for them is unequaled.  One basic and simple question that each parent should ask is ... what is the highest good for my child?  Is is not for his/her salvation?   Towards that end we follow the biblical principles of correction or chastening.

Heb 12
5  And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

2Sa 7
14  I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Pro 19
18  Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.



Chastening and "the rod" can take many forms, and, just as God used various forms of chatisements towards His children in the Bible, parents do the same based upon a child's age, temperment, the type infraction, etc.   No one is advocating physical discipline (not to be confused with abuse) for the sake of physical discipline, but it has its place and is sometimes the most effective and efficient form of discipline. 

Consider . . .  Paul was physically knocked off his donkey to the ground in order to get his attention, and temporarily blinded and reduced to a state of helplessness whereby he could no longer "kick against the pricks":

Act 9
3  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6  And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7  And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8  And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.


Consider . . .  David's spiritual sensitivity was such that a verbal confrontation by another man of God was enough to bring him to a state of true repentence, with the realization that all sin (though directed towards another) iis ultimately against God:

Psa 51
4  Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.


Under the appropriate circumstances, a good swat on the behind is much preferred over passive neglect or hostility which amounts to emotional abuse that can do lasting damage.  Whereas a timely spankng brings home the point, is quickly over with, and 'clears the air'.  ;)

Punishment in any form is not intended to be pleasant, and the primary role of a parent is not that of 'friend'.  Clear boundaries with clear expectations & consequences provides much needed stability and a greater sense of security than an atmosphere of permissiveness or one that excludes physical restraints of any kind.   

I have no doubt that children who grew up in household where the judicious use of physical punishment was practiced (again not to be confused with physical abuse which the Bible clearly warns against), become more responsibile adults who understand 'accountability', 'consequences', 'duty', and more importantly, have a healthier respect for 'authority'.   A fear of consequenes also has its place.  A children who learn to respect and accept the authority of parents, are more readily capable of extending these crucial attributes towards the ultimate authority of God and His commandments:

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Tony Warren

  • Administrator
  • Affiliate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2348
  • Gender: Male
    • The Mountain Retreat
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2007, 09:02:49 AM »
>>>
Spank happy southern baptists? Well that is really a generalization, isn't it?
<<<

Of course. But this is what people resort to when they have no defense of scripture against God’s word of truth concerning what God's will is. They have to fill their posts with something, and so it is usually some generalization, innuendo, distraction or rhetoric. The Biblical fact is, "Biblical disciplinary spanking is a loving act, not an act of abuse. These are two entirely different things. To deny this, is to deny what God has inspired penned.

Proverbs 13:24
  • "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

"Sometimes" spanking is the chastening that a child needs from "loving" parents. And Dr. Spock is not the arbiter of wisdom and truth, God is. The scriptures instructing this have already been given. It's a question of obedience, or thinking that we know Children better than God.
 

Quote
>>>
A good question should be, if this law passes, will Christians continue to spank their children against the law?
<<<

My guess is no, they won't. At least, not in general. Very few spanked their kids before the law, and anyone who gets out into the public has seen first hand the results of this neglect. To many Christians are knee deep in social engineering, so that it's not considered kind or loving or compassionate. And it is presumed to lack the patience in their form of Christianity. No, not many "professing" Christians would disobey such a law, because most of them have already abrogated Christian conscience, responsibility and parenting according to God's book. The sad truth is, our children are being schooled by Oprah Winfrey, Ernie and Bert, and Dr. Phill. Many Christians will probably be relieved that it's something they won't have to consider anymore.

Deuteronomy 30:17-19
  • "But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
  • I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it."

A warning to Israel that if they turned away from the precepts of His word, He would turn away from them. It is set as an example to the congregation today against falling into the idolatry of the world system. Judy and Lee have already given excellent advice.


Quote
>>>
 Will anyone here violate the law?
<<<

Well, I don't live in California and I don't have small children, but if I did, I would spank my children when/if I deemed it necessary.

Acts 5:29
  • "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

It, again, boils down to the heart to receive what God declares unto obedience, or ignoring what God says in favor of modern beliefs.


Quote
>>>
Will that then be a violation of God's law to be obedient to civil law?
<<<

No, because God's law of civil obedience is qualified, wherein His law supersedes any law man makes. Remember, God doesn't command us to obey all government laws, He tells us to obey, in all things lawful. In other words, as long as it isn't a violation of God's law. The faithful Christian pledges obedience in all things lawful and honest which are not in violation of the law of God. ie., if our government enacted a law that said we must kill all the male firstborn, we could not do that because it is not lawful. It might be by our government's law, but it is not lawful in God's jurisprudence. If the law said we must abort our children (as it did in China), we should not obey, because it is murder, a violation of God's law. And obedience of faith is very much a part of Christian soteriology. Lee brought up a very excellent example in the law that the king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon made (Daniel 3:4=18). That governmental law was a blatant violation of the law of God. Daniel could not obey this government's law to bow down to another god, because to do so would be a violation of God's law, which is supreme. Thus we understand that we can only obey, in all things lawful to God's jurisprudence.

Now, let me also add this, because I don't think that it has been touched on yet. That doesn't mean that we have to willingly go to prison as Martyrs. That in itself "might" even be a form of self-righteousness. Because it is a perfectly acceptable alternative to leave the state where this law was enacted. ie., we don't have to confront the government saying I'm going to spank and I'm going to stay here and do it in the town square. Whatever one's conscience allows.


nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2007, 03:15:42 PM »
Greetings Judy,

My questions were rhetorical.  For which you've appropriately shown the point for them.  I have no problem in lovingly spanking my children, or even now my grandchildren.  But, spanking is NOT the only way.  If Christian parents attain results through firm, loving discipline which does not include corporal punishment, I say, "good for them."  As Christian parents we much each allow our brothers and sisters in Christ to administer judgment, and justice in the way that works for them as a family, and brings glory to God.  We do not have the right to deny another believer Christian liberties we ourselves would fight to maintain.  We don't try to impose our will upon others, rather allow God to convict the hearts of every Christian parent to administer discipline to their offspring in whatever way God has shown them works for them while raising Godly children. 

Many Blessings,
Sandy 

judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2007, 10:24:10 PM »
Greetings Judy,

My questions were rhetorical.  For which you've appropriately shown the point for them.  I have no problem in lovingly spanking my children, or even now my grandchildren.  But, spanking is NOT the only way.  If Christian parents attain results through firm, loving discipline which does not include corporal punishment, I say, "good for them."  As Christian parents we much each allow our brothers and sisters in Christ to administer judgment, and justice in the way that works for them as a family, and brings glory to God.  We do not have the right to deny another believer Christian liberties we ourselves would fight to maintain.  We don't try to impose our will upon others, rather allow God to convict the hearts of every Christian parent to administer discipline to their offspring in whatever way God has shown them works for them while raising Godly children. 

Many Blessings,
Sandy 

Sandy,

Neither I nor anyone else that I know of has suggested that "spanking was the only way".  Please don't confuse matters by suggesting otherwise.

judy

Judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2007, 01:52:03 PM »

Sandy,

Neither I nor anyone else that I know of has suggested that "spanking was the only way".  Please don't confuse matters by suggesting otherwise.

Judy

Greetings Judy,

I can't imagine what thread you are following.  No one here is suggesting spanking is the only way?  Please don't ignore the obvious! 

I’ll only address quotes from the more current threads beginning with reply #61:

“It's a strong defense of sound Christian doctrines and a testimony on how so many so-called christians pervert God's word because of social changes. It's sad that so many in the church today judge by what seems right in today's society rather than what is written in God's word. Since when does God's word fall out of vogue even with christians?”

This person advocates spanking children as being “a strong defense of sound Christian doctrines” and goes on to say “so many SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS pervert God’s word because of social changes.”  While it is true there is evidence (the verses have been posted) that corporal punishment (training a child through the use of spanking) is not against the Law of God, is correcting with the rod only, sound Christian doctrine, and Christian parents who do not condone corporal punishment therefore those who pervert God’s Word because of social changes?  No, there’s no one here claiming that spanking is the only way, and anyone who disagrees perverts the Word….right!

“But I'm sure you'll hear the usual suspects whinning about how unloving spanking is, and how brutal we are to be condoning it. That's a given I guess.”

Here we have the advocate for spanking calling believing parents who do not condone corporal punishment whinners.  That sounds an awful lot to me like if you don’t agree that spanking is a COMMAND from God then you are a whiner, and I’ll venture to guess this person probably ASSUMES you are not truly saved if you don’t spank your children into shape.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less unbiblical…right!

“Yes, this country is going to hell with the liberals whinning love, love, love all the way there. Frankly, I don't even understand why this is even an issue with christians, since it is written so clearly, many times in scripture what God desires we should do. What parents have done for thousands of thousands of years is now made to appear unloving and a reasson to be imprisioned!  Apostasy gone wild!”

Here the one advocating biblical spanking not only likens Christian parents who do not condone corporal punishment to liberals, and going against “what God desires we should do”, but actually goes on to call loving Christian parents who have decided another way of disciplining their children as committing apostasy.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less as unbiblical….right!

“I don't think the knowledge of God is stifled or corrupted Ignorantly in this case, but wantonly. In other words, having no regard for justice, God's word or his instructions.”

Here, those Christian parents who choose against corporal punishment know the truth, but corrupt the Word of God wantonly because they have no regard for God’s Word or His instructions.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less as unbiblical….right! 

“Betty, will you and your girlfriend go after God next for using corporal punishment and tell Him it's ungodly? You don't come with sound advice, it's sounds more like Dr. Phil and Oprah advice.”

Here, speaking against the Christian mother who does not condone corporal punishment, suggests she is ungodly, and likens her decision not to use corporal punishment as following advise from Dr Phil and Oprah.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less unbiblical…right!   

This is just a small sampling.  I could go on and on, but I hope you get the picture.  We do not have the right to deny Christian liberty to other Christians, and to call them illogical, unbalanced, going against the Word of God etc, etc, etc.  It is not our place to cast dispersions upon a brother or sisters in Christ simply because they choose not to agree with our opinions.  Do you really believe no one here has suggested that spanking is the only way? 

Many Blessings,
Sandy

Peng Bao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2007, 02:02:21 PM »
While it is true there is evidence (the verses have been posted) that corporal punishment (training a child through the use of spanking) is not against the Law of God,

 It doesn't say it is not against God's law, it says that it's an effective tool to train children.


Quote
is correcting with the rod only, sound Christian doctrine,


Again, you are perverting what people say. No one has even remotely suggested spanking was the only way.  I really am beginning to suspect the tactics used by you are deliberate, rather than a misunderstanding.


Quote
and Christian parents who do not condone corporal punishment therefore those who pervert God’s Word because of social changes? 

Yes, of course they are. If God says this is the way to train up a child, and someone says no, I don't condone or agree with that, then yes, they are perverting and disagreeing with God's law. Either that or they are denying that God knows what he's talking about.  You can't have it both ways Sandy.


judykanova

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 918
  • Gender: Female
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2007, 03:26:23 AM »

Sandy,

Neither I nor anyone else that I know of has suggested that "spanking was the only way".  Please don't confuse matters by suggesting otherwise.

Judy

Greetings Judy,

I can't imagine what thread you are following.  No one here is suggesting spanking is the only way?  Please don't ignore the obvious! 

I’ll only address quotes from the more current threads beginning with reply #61:

“It's a strong defense of sound Christian doctrines and a testimony on how so many so-called christians pervert God's word because of social changes. It's sad that so many in the church today judge by what seems right in today's society rather than what is written in God's word. Since when does God's word fall out of vogue even with christians?”

This person advocates spanking children as being “a strong defense of sound Christian doctrines” and goes on to say “so many SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS pervert God’s word because of social changes.”  While it is true there is evidence (the verses have been posted) that corporal punishment (training a child through the use of spanking) is not against the Law of God, is correcting with the rod only, sound Christian doctrine, and Christian parents who do not condone corporal punishment therefore those who pervert God’s Word because of social changes?  No, there’s no one here claiming that spanking is the only way, and anyone who disagrees perverts the Word….right!

“But I'm sure you'll hear the usual suspects whinning about how unloving spanking is, and how brutal we are to be condoning it. That's a given I guess.”

Here we have the advocate for spanking calling believing parents who do not condone corporal punishment whinners.  That sounds an awful lot to me like if you don’t agree that spanking is a COMMAND from God then you are a whiner, and I’ll venture to guess this person probably ASSUMES you are not truly saved if you don’t spank your children into shape.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less unbiblical…right!

“Yes, this country is going to hell with the liberals whinning love, love, love all the way there. Frankly, I don't even understand why this is even an issue with christians, since it is written so clearly, many times in scripture what God desires we should do. What parents have done for thousands of thousands of years is now made to appear unloving and a reasson to be imprisioned!  Apostasy gone wild!”

Here the one advocating biblical spanking not only likens Christian parents who do not condone corporal punishment to liberals, and going against “what God desires we should do”, but actually goes on to call loving Christian parents who have decided another way of disciplining their children as committing apostasy.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less as unbiblical….right!

“I don't think the knowledge of God is stifled or corrupted Ignorantly in this case, but wantonly. In other words, having no regard for justice, God's word or his instructions.”

Here, those Christian parents who choose against corporal punishment know the truth, but corrupt the Word of God wantonly because they have no regard for God’s Word or His instructions.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less as unbiblical….right! 

“Betty, will you and your girlfriend go after God next for using corporal punishment and tell Him it's ungodly? You don't come with sound advice, it's sounds more like Dr. Phil and Oprah advice.”

Here, speaking against the Christian mother who does not condone corporal punishment, suggests she is ungodly, and likens her decision not to use corporal punishment as following advise from Dr Phil and Oprah.  But no one here is advocating spanking only, and anything less unbiblical…right!   

This is just a small sampling.  I could go on and on, but I hope you get the picture.  We do not have the right to deny Christian liberty to other Christians, and to call them illogical, unbalanced, going against the Word of God etc, etc, etc.  It is not our place to cast dispersions upon a brother or sisters in Christ simply because they choose not to agree with our opinions.  Do you really believe no one here has suggested that spanking is the only way? 


Sandy,

It was in response to my post that you made the charge that "spanking is NOT the only way".  And when I confronted you about it, you moved past my post to bits and pieces of the posts of others, which you have (again) mischaracterized or taken out of context.  You take about as much liberties with other people's word as you do with God's Word.

You have long been wearing thin the patience of others, and may want to start thinking twice about what you say, before you say it.

Job 6:24 
Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

Job 27:4 
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.



judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Penne

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
  • Gender: Female
  • Obviously I'm a Novice
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2007, 05:11:09 AM »
Sandy,

You took one of my statements and used it out of context.  Quite frankly I don’t appreciate that. 

The whole topic of this thread is “spanking.”  It isn’t about is spanking used for every offence a child makes.  It’s about should we as christian spank our children when deemed necessary.  The link Betty provided said it isn’t biblical to spank so therefore my reply still remains, it’s more of Oprah’s and Dr. Phil’s philosophy on the correct way to rear children.  It’s a shame when Christians look to the ways of the world in rearing their families to what exalts and opposes everything biblical.

You’re right, we can’t impose our ways upon others. God forbid, that would be politically incorrect.  We must however judge what is right or wrong according to what God gives us and stand firm on witnessing to the truth.

Luke 16:13
  "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Penne

Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2007, 11:42:30 AM »
Sandy,

You took one of my statements and used it out of context.  Quite frankly I don’t appreciate that. 

The whole topic of this thread is “spanking.”  It isn’t about is spanking used for every offence a child makes.  It’s about should we as christian spank our children when deemed necessary.  The link Betty provided said it isn’t biblical to spank so therefore my reply still remains, it’s more of Oprah’s and Dr. Phil’s philosophy on the correct way to rear children.  It’s a shame when Christians look to the ways of the world in rearing their families to what exalts and opposes everything biblical.

You’re right, we can’t impose our ways upon others. God forbid, that would be politically incorrect.  We must however judge what is right or wrong according to what God gives us and stand firm on witnessing to the truth.

Luke 16:13
  "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Pene

Greetings Pene,

You will probably be surprised to hear that I whole-heartedly agree with everything you have said.  Even my taking your comment out of context.  I did this deliberately, (which is why I did not mention anyones name) simply to show how hostile many here became at the prospect that CHRISTIAN parents can have another perspective when it comes to disciplining our covenant children, even if its true that their perspective appears more like the world.  You and others who advocate spanking (I too advocate the need to spank) have made the rod of correction a literal rod, and in doing this miss the point of the ROD being Christ, and training our children with the Rod of righteousness.  We are commanded to train up our child in the way he should go.  This speaks of training them from the Word of truth.  If you do an earnest study of the word rod, then I wonder if you would conclude that the rod of correction is meant as corporal punishment?  I found it incorporates a much wider application then that of spanking, even though the Bible clearly suggests a good old fashioned spanking is not only at times necessary, but gets to the very SEAT of the problem.   ;)

Many Blessings,
Sandy     

Robert Powell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Gender: Male
  • "fruit of the righteous, a tree of Life" Pr 11:30
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2007, 12:15:01 PM »
Greetings Pene,

You will probably be surprised to hear that I whole-heartedly agree with everything you have said.  Even my taking your comment out of context.  I did this deliberately,

So you readily admit your deceit? Boy, you are one strange piece of work.


Quote
(which is why I did not mention anyones name) simply to show how hostile many here became at the prospect that CHRISTIAN parents can have another perspective when it comes to disciplining our covenant children, even if its true that their perspective appears more like the world.

No, what you did was lied or bore false witness against those posting to you to make it seem like they were saying spanking was the only way to handle children, which none of them said. Not one of them made any such comments. You have given false witness against them, and no matter how you try to clean it up after the fact, that's what you did. Sandy, how do you expect anyone to respect you or take you seriously when you continually practice this type of deceit? Do you think that the ends justify the means? What's wrong with you? You use to be an honest person. What happened? You talk about hostile, how do you expect people to react when you do these things? I hope that you go and pray about this and straighten your life out, because you are destroying any witness you had by your behavior.

 Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Sandy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • I Stand Coram Deo
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2007, 04:01:17 PM »
Greetings Robert,

How is it deceitful when one admits to taking something out of context?  Since I was honest you consider me to be deceitful?  To my way of thinking that is odd.

How can I be bearing false witness against those posting when I very deliberately left out the names of those I quoted?  Who am I bearing false witness against?  If none of those I quoted had made the comments, how could I quote them?  It was not my purpose to bear false witness against a brother or sister in Christ.  

Do I think the ends justify the means?  I take it you mean do I believe it was okay to quote out of context for a specific purpose.  Obviously I had a point to make or I would not have bothered.  You see we can make statements and tell Christian parents that if they do not discipline the biblical way…according to those in favor of spanking this would be we MUST spank if we would discipline according to God.  Many have made the point that in doing it according to Scripture, then the child becomes more respectful, better behaved, well-mannered etc.  How can we make a dogmatic argument in favor of our perception of the biblical way, when very clearly this biblical way is sometimes as much a failure as those choosing another way of discipline.  I’m sure we all know of Christian children who are spanked, and still the worst brats, ill-mannered, disrespectful etc.  I’m sure we also know of adults who were raised in Christian homes with biblical spanking who are today a role model for ungodly behavior. 

That’s the problem, there is no way when disciplining that we can know with absolute certainty that our children will turn into fine, upstanding Christians.  We simply do the best we can, and include an abundant amount of prayer for guidance.  Sometimes spanking is called for, and other times some other form of discipline will suffice.  We love our children, so as believers we try to train them to first and foremost love the Lord.

I’m really sorry that my post caused you to respond in the manner you did.  It is always wrong to say or do something that would cause your brother to stumble.  Had I known that my response would have been so misunderstood, then I would not have posted it.     

Many Blessings,
Sandy

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]