[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]

Author Topic: Should We Spank Our Children  (Read 62800 times)

He_Leadeth_Me

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2004, 03:38:07 AM »
I'm sorry I've offended you, Diane.  :o  I've met people who have pet verses, yet wouldn't think of stoning their rebellious children.

God wants us to discipline our children and set an example for them. One of the examples we need to set is to speak the truth in love, another is to have patience, another to edify other Christians, and yet another is to choose our words carefully.

Eph. 4:15, 2 Tim. 2:24, 1 Cor. 14:12, James 3:6

God isn't finished with us yet. It's good to encourage one another on our life's journey. I'm glad you have concerns about child-rearing and the word of God.
His faithful follower I would be,
For by His hand He leadeth me.
----Joseph H. Gilmore

He_Leadeth_Me

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2004, 03:47:57 AM »
I'm sorry. I forgot to respond to this:

Your view is fine if you take the bible as nothing but scrap paper to trample under foot, as has become the comon practice today. But for bible believers, your philosophy is carnal, unbiblical, and a bold faced contradiction to what God has stated about children, their punishment, and it's effects on them. So who should we believe? You, your psychologists, or God?

We should listen to the Holy Spirit. And probably be less critical of God's elect.  :)

Deuteronomy 21
18   If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19   Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20   And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21   And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Did I condemn spanking? Perhaps you misread my post.
His faithful follower I would be,
For by His hand He leadeth me.
----Joseph H. Gilmore

Wonder

  • Guest
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2004, 11:04:56 AM »
I think beating them with rod is great, if that rod is the same rod as in the Bible, you know, the one that claims, thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
I don't see that a physical beating is a comfort, at least not to the child.
To correct a wrong is not adding another, but showing a better way of doing whatever they do wrong.
To beat a child with a rod of the wrong kind, can kill.
In His Love.

Peng Bao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2004, 11:22:15 AM »
I think beating them with rod is great, if that rod is the same rod as in the Bible, you know, the one that claims, thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
I don't see that a physical beating is a comfort, at least not to the child.

Well that's because you are brainwashed if you think that God wasn't instructing his saints to physically hit the children.

Quote
To correct a wrong is not adding another, but showing a better way of doing whatever they do wrong.
To beat a child with a rod of the wrong kind, can kill.
In His Love.

God didn't say abuse and beat the child to death, as is so often the confusion of anti-spanking crowd. On the contrary.

 Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
 14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

The spiritual meaning of the rod does not negate the literal meaning of how we are to correct our children, and the good that it will bring in correction. So who cares about the social philosophies of man, God says spanking, hitting, whatever you want to call it, is good for correction of children. Not always, but it is an option that unfortunately isn't used in our day, and the undisciplined children cursing out their parents without fear, is a testimony to that error.

 Pr 22:15  Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

 Corporal punishment is not abuse.

Wonder

  • Guest
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2004, 12:08:06 PM »
Whatever you do unto them, you do unto Him.
I am thankful that you aren't bringing up my children. They are proof that they can be brought up without physical harm.
To each their own. Just in my opinion, you don't have to hit them to teach them.
In His Love.

Beechwood

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Fishers of Men
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2004, 01:13:24 PM »
Whatever you do unto them, you do unto Him.
I am thankful that you aren't bringing up my children. They are proof that they can be brought up without physical harm.


You must be one of those people who privately interpret scripture to mean anything they want. Because clearly, God says that disciplining children this way is not only permissible, but should be used for correction when necessary. You in effect are saying, you don't care what God says, you don't feel it's right so that's that. Not the right response to be Christian. I think God knows more about children than you and the media does.


Quote
To each their own. Just in my opinion, you don't have to hit them to teach them.
In His Love.

To each unsaved person his own. But to Christians, God's own. Not our will but his will. Not what seems right in our own eyes, but what is right in God's eyes. Not what modern culture teaches, but what God's word teaches. It's the difference between biblical christians and pseudo christians.

PS, No one said you have to hit them to teach them. Don't change the subject.



Peng Bao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2004, 02:00:29 PM »
You must be one of those people who privately interpret scripture to mean anything they want. Because clearly, God says that disciplining children this way is not only permissible, but should be used for correction when necessary. You in effect are saying, you don't care what God says, you don't feel it's right so that's that. Not the right response to be Christian. I think God knows more about children than you and the media does.

 Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

Beechwood. That is the take I got on it also. So if man is left to his own wisdom, then it really doesn't matter what god says, then it's a waste of time to show scripture to someone who isn't going to accept it's authority. But to the rest of us, it is sin to ignore God in and fall in step with the flavor of the month social agenda.

Wonder

  • Guest
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2004, 05:29:19 PM »
Well then, I guess that if that is what you believe then you should be sure and follow that Scripture to the tee as not to disobey God. Find you a rod, be it wood or metal, and beat the child, be sure and fulfill it perfectly.
May God bless the ignorant.

Scot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2004, 08:03:24 PM »
Man says:
No one is going to tell me how to raise my kids.

God says:
whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid (Prov. 12:1) RSV

Man says:
I wouldn't spank my child because I love him too much. Besides, that would be cruel.

God says:
He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early (Prov. 13:24) Amplified

Man says:
I would never spank my child because it may hurt him.

God says:
The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. (Prov. 20:30) KJV

Man says:
I resent having to correct my child.

God says:
It is joy to the just to do judgement. (Prov. 21:25a) KJV

Man says:
Spanking a child is not that important. There are many more effective and kinder ways to discipline a child.

God says:
Withhold not discipline from the child, for if you strike and punish him with the (reed-like) rod, he will not die. You shall whip him with rod, and deliver his life from Sheol" (Prov. 23:13,14) Amplified

Man says:
I am afraid if I spank my child he will not like me.

God says:
Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight to your soul. (Prov. 29:17) NIV
 :)

Scot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2004, 08:18:11 PM »
A section of an article called "The Rod And Reproof" by Stephen Key:

Contrary to the well-known teachings of Dr. Benjamin Spock, and the teachings of many who have rejected the Word of God, the rod is a necessary instrument in the discipline of our children. So important is that rod that God tells us in Proverbs 13:24, "He that spareth his rod hateth his son."

The rod of discipline is not easy to use.

The world has so corrupted the concept "love," that our deceitful hearts would readily say that it is love to let a child do his own thing, so to speak.

And I would have you mothers notice that the mother is mentioned specifically in this text. Because the father's calling is to provide for the family, the calling of the early discipline of your children falls primarily upon you mothers who are at home. That is one reason you are mentioned specifically. But I would submit that there is another reason you are mentioned in connection with this calling to use the rod and reproof. If the father's stronger character generally induces him to "provoke his children to wrath," which Paul warns us fathers against in Colossians 3:21, does not the mother's softer and generally more tender nature lean toward the opposite evil? Would you mothers attempt to correct your children with a few harsh words, or with a mild, "If you quit that right now, I'll give you a piece of candy?"

The Scriptures, however, teach something quite different. Woe be unto you parents who refuse to heed the Word of God in the discipline of your children! For God tells us to love, not hate. "He that spareth the rod hateth his son." Love necessitates correction with the rod and reproof! If we love our children, God says that we must administer discipline and correction.

The rod is a generic instrument which might take several different forms. It was an instrument that was used as the shaft of a spear. It sometimes denoted a scepter, the mark of authority used by one who ruled. But the rod was also an instrument used to administer corrective and physical discipline. For us it might be a stick or a switch or a firm ruler. But whatever that instrument may be, it is a means to return the wayward child to the right course.

We must also note in this connection, that rightly to use the rod on our children requires love. All too often, where physical discipline is exercised, it is not done out of love either for God or the child. We who must administer such discipline to our covenant children, must do so under God's authority and with His manner and attitude. That attitude is revealed in Hebrews 12:6-8: "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and no sons." God does not abuse us in His chastening. He loves us.

There is a reason also in this connection that God prescribes the use of the rod. It takes just a little time and effort to get the stick out. And for us to reflect God's attitude of love through our reactionary, impatient, sinful flesh, it is necessary that we slow down and think about what we are doing. Slapping your children around the head and beating on them with your fists, whipping them or beating them with any object close at hand, or anything of the like, is nothing more than abuse of the children whom God has entrusted to your care. And if that has been your ungodly method of punishing your covenant children, you must repent before God and before your children this day!

God instructs us to use the rod in love.

The chastisement of the rod, used in love, is a chastisement quickly and mercifully inflicted. Although our children may question it, there is no punishment more mercifully inflicted than the rod. It is God's method, which is quickly over, with no need to look with disdain upon a corrected child for hours and even days. The rod is not a punishment that keeps the child in mom's and dad's "doghouse." Furthermore, God's call for the use of the rod takes into account his or her physical welfare. God created a particular part of the body capable of receiving the impact of the rod without injury. It is evident that God did not create every part of the body to receive the blow of the rod. When we parents administer the discipline of the rod in love, then we do not do so to injure. That means that we are not to strike our children in the back, where we may cause injury to the spine or the kidneys, nor in the stomach, nor on the head or hands; but on the flesh of the backside where, if the rod is used properly, it may be keenly felt.

And if you ask, what about the older children, the text speaks to that also. We may agree that the rod is good for young children. But how should we discipline our teenagers? Well, you may be surprised to hear that teens are not to be excluded from the use of the rod when necessary. It is striking in the text, that Solomon implicitly calls for the use of the rod and reproof until the child is an adult. The term "child" refers - as is clear in the Hebrew term used - to a child who has reached the age of independence, who is ready to move out of the house and marry.

You will find, when you administer discipline to your child as God commands and as you nurture that child to receive more and more responsibility and to become more and more dependent upon God, that the rod will not often be necessary with your teenager. As a covenant child matures in the way of loving discipline, under the diligent use of rod and reproof as a child, he learns to experience joy and peace in the home. He grows in the knowledge and understanding of the Word of God, of the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. He realizes that obedience to God is the way of happiness. And the rod is less frequently necessary as a means to instruct. But it is still a means.

But along with the rod must be reproof.

"The rod and reproof." When the rod is used, God has ordained discipline to be twofold. Proper Christian discipline is not dictatorship, rule by might with the rod alone. To separate these two is to ask for the chastisement of God to fall upon your head. Eli gave the reproof, but spared the rod; and he had to suffer the torment of hearing that his sons were slain by the wrath of God, and the ark of the Lord was taken by the Philistines. Others, contrary to the Word of God, use the rod alone. Now, there are many times when a matter of discipline can be handled by reproof alone. The indication of Proverbs 17:10 is, if reproof works the sorrow of repentance, then let the rod be spared. If not, use the rod and let not thy soul spare for the child's crying. But never use the rod without reproof.

Reproof is verbal instruction in godliness.

The child must not only be steered away from the path that leads to hell, but he must be shown the error of his way before God and he must be instructed in righteousness. Our children must be taught to evaluate their own specific actions in the light of the Scriptures. They must be taught to bow before the authority of God. They must be taught why the thing that they did was wrong in the eyes of God. Biblical discipline requires words. How much do you think you would get out of my preaching, if all I did was stand in the pulpit from week to week waving my arms and making contortions with my face, but never saying a word? The message of the gospel cannot be communicated by mere gestures or by pounding the pulpit. Nor can the instruction in Christian discipline be communicated if all that our discipline amounts to is a painful pantomime with a stick. The wrath of God was exercised toward us, that we might hear those precious words, "I love you in Christ Jesus." And even now, when we experience the chastisement of God, it is to lead us in the way toward heaven.

When we understand that precious truth, then we ought to express our love to our children especially when we are called to use the rod. We must reprove them, expressing our love for them. We must assure them that the rod is not administered out of hatred, but out of a heavy heart that loves that child in Christ. What a terrible thing it is when confessing Christian parents beat their children, but fail to reprove them and to point them to the love of Christ. How utterly wicked it is for a parent to spank a child only to leave him like a dog to lick his sores. It is no wonder when such children run to their rooms, slam their doors, and mutter under their breaths, "I hate you." Such an attitude expressed by a parent who uses the rod, but never reproves in love, has no semblance whatsoever to the attitude God expresses in chastening His spiritual children. God demands the rod and reproof.

And we ought not forget that belonging to reproof is prayer, which brings parent and child close to God. The necessity of prayer in the discipline and instruction of our children cannot be overemphasized. For one thing, we parents must repeatedly approach God seeking forgiveness for our failure to exercise discipline as He has ordained. We need to do that today and every day. We need to pray for grace to obey His Word and to bow humbly before His wise instruction. We need to pray for much wisdom in dealing with our covenant children. For we know that if God were to reward us according to our iniquities, every one of our children would walk the way to hell. And we need to pray for our children. We ought to do that not just generally, but specifically, naming each one by name and praying for the specific needs of each child and bringing before God the specific problems we face with each child. More than once, I have heard the testimony of a child of God, speaking of his Christian father whose discipline fell far short of the biblical standard. But one thing that father did, in the presence of his children, was to fall on his knees to beseech God's forgiveness for himself and God's mercy towards his children. Such prayer leaves on the mind and soul of a child an impression that will never leave him. In prayer also, we are to reflect the love of Christ toward us. He prays without ceasing, serving as our faithful and constant Intercessor by His Holy Spirit.

In all things the Lord God calls us to reflect Him, also in the administering of Christian discipline to covenant children. And He says to us in Proverbs 3:11, 12: "My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD (despise not His use of the rod on you); neither be weary of his correction (of his reproof): For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth (He reproves); even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/rod_and_reproof.shtml


Kenneth White

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinking Christians, Intelligent Theology
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2004, 04:13:00 AM »
Wonder, love is not a matter of doing what we think is best, but of doing what God says. If you look at scripture you will find that God defines love as obedience to his commandments.

 Prov. 19:18
  "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

When you put your own ideas of what is correct over and above what God says we should do, then we are no longer serving God. When we spank a child in chastizement, and he cries, he's not crying because we've injured him (we have not) he's crying because his pride is hurt. And often, that is what needs to be broken. Man's pride and stubborness. Trust God, he knows what is best.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Wonder

  • Guest
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2004, 07:03:47 AM »
Jesus spoke of how he done what he saw his Father do. I was quoted this, "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and no sons."
I do see myself and my children as children of God. I have also never seen my Father beat his children physically with a rod. Not while He was here nor now.
The word disipline comes from the word disiple. One can disipline his children without physical harm. One can take the times when a child miss behaves and use it as a time to teach a proper way. It may take more of our time. But in turn He spends time correcting us and its not always fun, but he never beats physically with a rod.
More time is needed from you to properly apply the rod, but it is better for the child than a physical beating.
When ever I read a Scripture, before I attempt to do as He asks, I always ask myself if it would hurt anyone. Because if it does, I will not do it. Just because, I never saw Him hurt anyone. Everything is done out of love, and He takes the time needed to teach us right. It is so much easier to spank a child and send them to their room, than it is to work and teach the child in the way they should go.
This is one subjuct my mind will not be changed on. Simply because I try to do as I see Him do to me, I do to them.
The only one I ever see hit, or beat anyone is man. That is not one I choose to follow.
You want to know those Scriptures that should not be taken literly are those that might hurt someone, because odds are we are not reading it the way it should be taken and we need more light in order to understand. His ways are not our ways. You cannot make anyone do anything they don't want to do. I will not instill fear of beating in the children in order to get them to keep His commandments. I want them to keep them because it is the right thing to do, because they love Him and CHOOSE to keep them. Only then do I know they will always keep them, even when I am not standing over them with a "rod". Many times they have dropped to their knees and cried, because of the wrong they did, not because of the rod, or being hit physically, but because they see how wrong they were in what they did.
I don't see God trying to perfect the flesh, only the spirit, it is the spirit in a child you want to apply the rod to. If you will correct the spirit, the flesh will come under its rule and will do right.
In His Love

Raybob

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a Lamma
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2004, 06:09:28 PM »
I see a lot of bible verses on this thread but Diane M. had the most important one so far.:

 Prv. 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

There is a BIG difference between spanking a child and lashing out in anger.  Unfortunately, my wife is one that will scream and yell, then reach out and slap saying no.  This is wrong and I tell her so.  The kids never listen and when they want attention, they get whopped.  On the other hand, I've corrected my boy (3) more than once.  Each time, I told him why, bent him over my knee and gave him a red butt.  He now listens and respects me.  If he is being obnoxois about something and I need to correct him, I now just say, "Do you want a red butt?"  He then says, "No" and stops whatever it was that he was doing.  In his three years, it's only taken a maybe 3 hits for him to get the message.  My girl just turned one and I am dreading the day I need to spank her but I know the time will come and I pray it only takes one time of the red butt.  :)

Raybob

Carmel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2004, 09:26:55 PM »

 
Quote
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and no sons."

 Did Jesus ever receive a spanking?

 

Bunyan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Gender: Male
  • Luke 8:24
Re: Should We Spank Our Children
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2004, 03:27:54 AM »

 
Quote
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and no sons."

 Did Jesus ever receive a spanking?

That is without a doubt one of the most absurd questions that I have ever read posted here. And I've read a lot of absurd questions.
"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace
says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done
."
- Martin Luther

 


[ Home | Eschatology | Bible Studies | Classics | Articles | Sermons | Apologetics | Search | F.A.Q. ]