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Author Topic: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?  (Read 31826 times)

ray

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2011, 08:04:58 AM »
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This is a good question. And one that I have not read a legitimate absolute answer to. At least not one I can completely agree with. Is there anyone here who has been a Pentecostal, who can speak from personal experience? What do you think?

Rose
By Gods grace I have been spared the horrors of pentecostalism, although growing up Reformed and being called the frozen chosen wasn't always a tag to wear on ones sleeve either, but , hey , it was minor compared to what was going on in the other camp. Therefore , i can't really answer your question from experience , but thats not all bad, because I believe that answering this from a biblical perspective is the definitive way to go. I know that many previous posts on this thread have addressed many of the issues, ie tongues, false healing, false prophecy etc , and they are all things that need to exposed, but if I could say that one of the most galling things that one could level against pentecostalism is the way it so callously renders the gospel.
I beleive that nothing could be simpler and clearer that the gospel that Peter declared on the day of pentecost, and in Acts 2:28 we read;

Then Peter said to them Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.


Now , how on earth could anyone blur and obfuscate that to the point where Pentecostals believe that a second spirit baptism is required , is beyond me . How can there be confusion, this is very same gospel that Jesus charged the disciples to preach unto all the world, wherein we read in Matthew 28:19

Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father , and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Again , where's the confusion , Paul affirms that we are sealed with the Spirit when we first believed and repented.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted after that ye heard the word of truth , the gospel of your salvation, in whom also after that ye believed , ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.


To me , it is beyond doubt that Pentecostalism is preaching another gospel, it is not a gospel to salvation , but one to damnation . The accounts that are given regarding the requirements for this " second baptism " make for headshaking reading, it really is woeful. The infilling of the Holy Spirit is a gift from God , both a necessary and a comforting gift. That Pentecostalism so distorts the clear and biblical teaching on the baptism of the Holy Spirit stands as a banner to its falsehood. Once upon a time , if you wanted to encounter a pentecostal you had to go their church , nowadays , they come to you and takeover your church, its pretty sad.

Tim Norton

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2013, 02:01:15 PM »
I would agree that pentacostalism is chaos but so are the Methodists, Lutherins, Presbaterians,

I don't agree with that at all. Not in the least bit. Pentecostalism can in no way be equated to Presbyterianism or even Lutheranism. Pentecostalism is another gospel in that it casts out devils by the power of devils, adds to God's word and deceitfully claim it's doing miracles through God. You cannot put these Churches in the same category.


Spencer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #92 on: May 03, 2020, 12:59:11 PM »
I know this is an old thread, but I've read through every single post and though this is a very controversial and divisive topic, I have from reading all the posts and links come to believe both Charismaticism and Pentecostalism are false gospels. Thank you all for your very instructional posts and links that helped me come to that conclusion.

Reggie Matthews

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2020, 06:57:25 AM »
What do you think about this article on Reformed Charismatics? How do you tell him he's not Reformed? How do you tell him he believes a false doctrine?

https://network.crcna.org/blog/what-reformed-charismatic
"Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?" -Ecclesiastes 8:4

Betty

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2020, 03:19:45 PM »
I know this is an old thread, but I've read through every single post and though this is a very controversial and divisive topic,

And that is why most Christians do not attempt to broach the subject because we believe in promoting Christian Unity instead of divisiveness. We believe in Christian liberty, the idea that we are free to believe whatever we want as long as we believe in Christ. We're not saved by doctrine, we are saved by Christ. I never condemn anyone who believes in the holy spirit.


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I have from reading all the posts and links come to believe both Charismaticism and Pentecostalism are false gospels.

Careful that you are not swayed by the very false teachers who say those who believe in the working of the spirit are false teachers. Do not be swayed by men over the spirit.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2020, 05:48:47 PM »
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We believe in Christian liberty, the idea that we are free to believe whatever we want as long as we believe in Christ.

In other words, Christians like you want to believe Christ, but want to do their way too.  Their doctrine typically means professed Christians who believe their own defination of "love" and "unity," thinking they can choose to do theirs THEIR way.  They wants keep their sins instead of doing God's will.  Their doctrine has replaced biblical Jesus Christ with their own Christ that winks at their sins. This is what "Christian liberty" is about.  This is NOT the "first love" nor "first works" but the "new love" and works according to their flesh that is now growing in the churches today.  This breeds apostasy and desolation.  God has warned us not to abandon your FIRST LOVE.  Do you even know what is the first love or first works are, don't you, Betty?

Revelation 2:4-5 KJV
[4] Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Ga 5:13-14
(13) For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
(14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The professed Christians like you want to accept everyone without judging them. Without warning them about hell. Without warning them the need for repentence. Without the warning about Homosexuality, cursing, divorcing and remarriage, drinking, murder, or lying, etc.  These are of the flesh and these are a rebellion to God. Not only one who refuse to repent but also refuse to warn people about their sin is a rebellion to God! That is why the judgment has come upon unfaithful church as God has warned her many times in Scripture that those has not repent of their sin nor return to first love and first works will suffer it. 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Joanne

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #96 on: May 04, 2020, 07:16:26 PM »
Ga 5:13-14
(13) For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
(14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


 )preach_( And do not use liberty as an excuse to make your word God's word.  Amen Erik.

Reformer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #97 on: May 05, 2020, 10:37:17 AM »
What do you think about this article on Reformed Charismatics?

I think it's a contradiction in terms, and it's based on a lot of subjection, misapplication, and a lack of understanding of tokens, figures, types, signs, representations, and shadows. First of all, he starts out with the false premise that if we don't believe in the Charismatic doctrines, we are limiting the Holy Spirit by putting it in a box. That's a very flawed premise, like saying if we say God can't lie we're putting him in a box. He seems to let his personal experiences dictate how we all should think about the way the holy spirit will work. It's all based on his supposition and not the sound exegesis of scripture.


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How do you tell him he's not Reformed?


I don't tell him he's not Reformed, I tell him he is misinformed. I attempt to demonstrate how the doctrine he believes in is not only not supported by the careful consideration of scripture, in context, and consistent with itself, but is contrary to it. What does Reformed even mean in our day? Next to nothong.

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How do you tell him he believes a false doctrine?

I witness to him what the scripture actually says, in context, and balanced consistently with the whole bible and how it defines the text. In other words, I witness the truth to him and whether he believes it or not is up to that same spirit that he claims he is so respectful of its work. Its work is truth and one of its missions is revelation.


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He says:
"What is a Reformed Charismatic? First and foremost, a Reformed Charismatic is that person who seeks to harmonize the dominant convictions of the Reformed faith, as articulated by people like John Calvin, with those of Pentecostals like the outstanding New Testament scholar Gordon Fee."

I don't seek to harmonize the dominant convictions of the Reformed faith as articulated by people like John Calvin, I seek to harmonize my beliefs with the teachings of God's word, and this is a very different principle than his. I don't attempt to harmonize the convictions of John Calvin with those of Pentecostals like the scholar Gordon Fee, I harmonize the doctrines I hold with the doctrine of God's word. This is where he and others have gone astray. Lifting up experiences, sentiments, traditions, Calvinism, man's testimonies, and scholars like Gordon Fee above the word of God.


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He says:
"In particular, the Reformed Charismatic affirms the conviction of the Pentecostal tradition that the Holy Spirit may choose and often does work today as the Spirit worked in the first century."

It is my belief that the truly Reformed "Christian" affirms the convictions of the children of God that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit that works truth, not of man's vain desire to perform signs that have already been revealed and are now being fulfilled in the working of the Spirit. Revealed in our preaching the gospel to all tongues, healing the sick, and raising the dead. No one is limiting the Spirit, in fact it is this working of the Spirit shown in our bearing witness to these truths. The working of the Holy Spirit is our testimony to truth, not our incoherent utterances pretending to be the working, or our miraculous physical healings, or our holy laughter, or any other such Charismatic nonsense. That's not limiting the Spirit, that's testimony to the truth that it is.

Joh 15:26 And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
27 and ye also do testify, because from the beginning ye are with me.

We can see that the working of ther Holy Spirit is in our faithful testimony. That is what I would tell the "Reformed Charismatic." The truth.

Mark

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #98 on: May 05, 2020, 06:15:51 PM »
 )GoodPopst(
Amen Reformer, like the word reformed today is misused, likened to how the word evangelical which used to preach salvation by grace alone but our day it is associated with liberal free will gospels. It reminds me of that dark saying.

Proverbs 22:28
Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.

How she has fallen and become a habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5,6

Chicago Bear

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #99 on: May 06, 2020, 05:19:43 PM »
What do you think about this article on Reformed Charismatics?

I think it's a contradiction in terms, and it's based on a lot of subjection, misapplication, and a lack of understanding of tokens, figures, types, signs, representations, and shadows. First of all, he starts out with the false premise that if we don't believe in the Charismatic doctrines, we are limiting the Holy Spirit by putting it in a box. That's a very flawed premise, like saying if we say God can't lie we're putting him in a box. He seems to let his personal experiences dictate how we all should think about the way the holy spirit will work. It's all based on his supposition and not the sound exegesis of scripture.

 )GoodPopst( Reformer. I don't think they truly understand the purpose of signs to even know what speaking in tongues or healing the physically sick pointed to. If they got that part down first I think the rest would fall into place.
Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

Philly Dawg

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2020, 07:47:50 PM »
 )ditto(
  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Melanie

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #101 on: May 07, 2020, 08:24:08 PM »

Proverbs 22:28
Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.



And they are definitely being moved, and in many cases completely eliminated.

Apostolic

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #102 on: May 08, 2020, 09:46:49 PM »
I don't think they truly understand the purpose of signs to even know what speaking in tongues or healing the physically sick pointed to.

Oh we don't? Then why not enlighten us lowly ignorant folk on what the elitist hierarchy of the church thinks it points to? Because in my book, speaking in tongues means speaking in tongues, and healing the sick means healing the sick. What book are you reading from? And from what book store did you get this great unknown understanding of yours? By all means, enlighten us poor folk.

Betty

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2020, 04:24:02 AM »
Apostolic,
   
Excerpt from ADAM MABRY

Why Charismatics and Calvinists Need Each Other

"Love also means that we commit to learn from each other. Can you imagine the exponential good that would happen if charismatics learned exegesis from the likes of Don Carson? What kingdom fruit would be born if Calvinists learned to exercise missional faith like our MPCM counterparts? I sometimes daydream about what could happen if the passion of the Pentecostal for the power of God and the passion of the Calvinist for the Word of God could be combined to accomplish the work of God. The world just might see the glory of God."

Apostolic

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2020, 01:25:17 PM »
 &TY  Betty, it's good to know that I'm not the only one who knows what love is and who accepts that there are different opinions that should all be respected.

 


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