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Author Topic: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?  (Read 31819 times)

Rose

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2009, 09:25:08 AM »

 This is a good question. And one that I have not read a legitimate absolute answer to. At least not one I can completely agree with. Is there anyone here who has been a Pentecostal, who can speak from personal experience? What do you think?
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

MaryLouItaly

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2009, 08:00:21 AM »
Actually I'm in a Pentecostal Church (Italian Assemblies of God) and I don't know if you can understand my suffering.
Be reformed and live in a semi-arminian/pelagian church, tongues and miracles addicted is a great proof for my patience and faith. I know that in this world denounce the heresy isn't politically correct, but if we are CHIRSTIAN we have the right to say if a thing is biblical or not.
Augustine of Hippona teach us that this heresy was a big problem also at his time and he wrote various books against this heresy.
If a church teach that the man, fallen in the sin (see Rom. 3:10-12), has the chance to choose to follow God and cooperate with Him for his salvation, you know that there's a big problem. Remember this: NO ONE SEEKS FOR GOD, and if your church believe a different thing you know that they are against the Holy Word.

In the end, I believe that also in the Pentecostal church there are true believers/elects, but I also say that the pentecostal gospel is another Gospel


Reformer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2009, 09:38:33 AM »
Actually I'm in a Pentecostal Church (Italian Assemblies of God) and I don't know if you can understand my suffering.

Well, here I go again. being Mr. Mean guy. What a ridiculous post, with not one scriptural reference for this private interpretation. But self-inflicted suffering is not really suffering, but a form of spiritual sadomasochism. A Pentecostal Church is a false Church (which I have no problem in saying), and good Christians should depart from such abominations. Not pat themselves on the back to remaining within these places.

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Be reformed and live in a semi-arminian/pelagian church, tongues and miracles addicted is a great proof for my patience and faith.

No, it is a great testament to a lack of sound judgment and limitless heretical tolerance. This is not something I would stick my chest out with patience over. Was Lot patient when the Lord told him to come out of Sodom or was he disobedient when he tarried? He was disobedient.

 Ps 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

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I know that in this world denounce the heresy isn't politically correct, but if we are CHIRSTIAN we have the right to say if a thing is biblical or not.

We denounce heresy, we don't denounce heresy in a heretical Church. Just as we don't frequent a whore house to testify that it is full of whores. We don't join a Mosque to testify that its doctrines are without the savior. We don't become a member of planned parenthood to testify to them that abortion is wrong. And neither should we be reformed and a member in a Pentecostal, semi-arminian, pelagian church, tongues speaking, miracle performing Church.

 Mr 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We can rationalize staying among them if we want, and you are not the first. But that doesn't make faithful christians. It doesn't take patience and faith to stay in such a group, it takes someone with a very high opinion of himself. It is not our job to witness inside false congregations. That has never been the job of believers.


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In the end, I believe that also in the Pentecostal church there are true believers/elects, but I also say that the pentecostal gospel is another Gospel

And I believed in the tooth fairy some years ago, but then I grew up. Grew up physically, emotionally and spiritually. God didn't appoint us to stay in a false Church because we believe someone might still be saved in there, but to leave a false church. There comes a time when we have to understand that our own personal belief is not enough for the true Christian, they have to have sound biblical authority,  the spirit, and good biblical common sense to know the difference between personal opinion and the word. We have to have the spirit to know when to come out from among them.

 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

The spirit gives only true Christians the will and wisdom to know when things are unclean and they must come out from among them. Don't you think God will do the same for that so-called saved person you think might be in there? Or do you think God might miss that one. I have faith that if they really are saved, God will call them out of a false Church just as he has me and the next guy. I don't think myself more powerful than God to watch over his elect.

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2009, 10:41:42 AM »
The Strange History of Pentecostalism

 http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/strange1.htm

 Strange Fire!

The Bible warns, "Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

Certainly this applies to the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement. It has rightly been called the glue of the End Times Apostasy. The only protection from it is to obey the Bible and separate from it.

MaryLouItaly

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2009, 01:52:11 PM »
No, it is a great testament to a lack of sound judgment and limitless heretical tolerance. This is not something I would stick my chest out with patience over. Was Lot patient when the Lord told him to come out of Sodom or was he disobedient when he tarried? He was disobedient.

 Ps 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Quote
I know that in this world denounce the heresy isn't politically correct, but if we are CHIRSTIAN we have the right to say if a thing is biblical or not.

We denounce heresy, we don't denounce heresy in a heretical Church. Just as we don't frequent a whore house to testify that it is full of whores. We don't join a Mosque to testify that its doctrines are without the savior. We don't become a member of planned parenthood to testify to them that abortion is wrong. And neither should we be reformed and a member in a Pentecostal, semi-arminian, pelagian church, tongues speaking, miracle performing Church.

 Mr 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We can rationalize staying among them if we want, and you are not the first. But that doesn't make faithful christians. It doesn't take patience and faith to stay in such a group, it takes someone with a very high opinion of himself. It is not our job to witness inside false congregations. That has never been the job of believers.


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In the end, I believe that also in the Pentecostal church there are true believers/elects, but I also say that the pentecostal gospel is another Gospel

And I believed in the tooth fairy some years ago, but then I grew up. Grew up physically, emotionally and spiritually. God didn't appoint us to stay in a false Church because we believe someone might still be saved in there, but to leave a false church. There comes a time when we have to understand that our own personal belief is not enough for the true Christian, they have to have sound biblical authority,  the spirit, and good biblical common sense to know the difference between personal opinion and the word. We have to have the spirit to know when to come out from among them.

 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

The spirit gives only true christians the will and wisdom to know when things are unclean and they must come out from among them. Don't you think God will do the same for that so-called saved person you think might be in there? Or do you think God might miss that one. I have faith that if they really are saved, God will call them out of a false Church just as he has me and the next guy. I don't think myself more powerful than God to watch over his elect.
I've discovered the reformed faith while I was in the Assemblies of God... Where I live I haven't a choice: go in a roman-catholic church, jehowah witness, or pentecostal church (not only Assemblies of God but also Benny Hinn followers). I prefere to stay in this church than stay alone at home. You are 'lucky' because evidently you have the chance to attend a reformed church near you.
Stay alone, in a semi-catholic family & atmosphere, is the worst thing that I could make.Now, I've the chance to share the gospel of salvation, at home alone I'll share the gospel at the wall.
I know that it isn't easy to understand my situation, because you must find you in this particular situation in order to understand it.

Reformer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2009, 02:36:37 PM »
I've discovered the reformed faith while I was in the Assemblies of God.

Many people here have come from false Churches. I discovered the Reformed faith while I was in a Dispensationalist Church. What has that to do with anything? Was I supposed to stay there and work it out arguing with the Dispensationalists just because I thought someone saved was there? God, no.

 Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


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.. Where I live I haven't a choice: go in a roman-catholic church, jehowah witness, or pentecostal church (not only Assemblies of God but also Benny Hinn followers).

You had another option. "none of the above". But you, and so many others, choose to ignore that biblical option.


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I prefere to stay in this church than stay alone at home.

When you are Christian, you are never alone. And when you are chatting with other Christians, you are fellowshipping with the assembly of God.

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You are 'lucky' because evidently you have the chance to attend a reformed church near you.

Not so lucky. There is no real reformed church in my area. Only the new and improved reformed street church hucksters, methodist, and Pentecostal. Which I would never join. I chose to serve God rather than myself in joining with these groups.


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Stay alone, in a semi-catholic family & atmosphere, is the worst thing that I could make.

Christianity is not about atmosphere, it is about worship, grace and evangelizing. All tied together. A Pentecostal Church does none of these. Pentecostal claims notwithstanding.

 Eze 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

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Now, I've the chance to share the gospel of salvation, at home alone I'll share the gospel at the wall.

Let me see if I have this right. You attend a false church so you can share the gospel of salvation. But outside this false church in the world, you can't do that? You can only share with the wall? That's not true at all. I share the gospel daily. You don't need a false church to share the gospel, you are simply trying to justify going tho a false Church. Why do you think God said to Israel not to mix two different kinds of threads together? Because you cannot have Godly people and ungodly people serving the same God in the same temple. Be ye separate.

 Isa 52:11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.


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I know that it isn't easy to understand my situation, because you must find you in this particular situation in order to understand it.

Nope! I don't believe that. But I'm sure you'll find a few here who do. particular situations don't change the word of God. I don't have to experience a false Church in order to know I've got to stay there and get someone saved. I know God does that, and I know he doesn't want me there. That's good enough for me.

 2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


SavedByGrace

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2009, 12:23:43 AM »
On Speaking in Tongues
by J. Paul Reno

The following material is not to be taken as either a recommendation or a condemnation of speaking in tongues. (I Corinthians 14:39) The purpose is simple. If speaking in tongues is of God, then it must conform to God's rules. However, conforming to these rules does not guarantee that it is of God. If speaking in tongues breaks the rules of God, then it is not of God. If it keeps the rules, then we should try the spirit to see if it is the Holy Spirit. (I John 4:1-1)
If you are spiritual, you will accept the authority of God's Word on this subject of His rules on the tongues issue. (I Corinthians 14:37) If you desire to be ignorant in this area, you will succeed! (I Corinthians 14:38)
The term "tongues" will be used to refer only to that which is a true gift of the Holy Spirit. In that tongues are being counterfeited by demons and/or the flesh, these rules apply only to that which is of God.

1. Do not covet or seek to speak in tongues. (I Corinthians 12:31,28)
2. Tongues are worthless if you don't have true love. (I Corinthians 13:1)
3. True tongues will not cause divisions in the Church, but rather will establish unity. (I Corinthians 12:25) . . . There will be no confusion caused by the tongues, but the result will be peace. (I Corinthians 14:33) . . . All things, tongues included, are to be done decently and in order. (I Corinthians 14:40)
4. Not all saved will be able to speak in tongues. (I Corinthians 12:30,10,11)
5. Tongues are the least important and least valuable of all gifts (I Corinthians 12:28,30), and therefore should not usurp the more important gifts of the Holy Spirit.
6. Five words spoken with understanding are more important than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (I Corinthians 14:19), and therefore tongues will not replace teaching and preaching.
7. Tongues are not to be used unless they edify others. (I Corinthians 14:26,23)
8. There must be at least two, but no more than three speaking when tongues are used. (I Corinthians 14:27)
9. These two or three are to take turns speaking. (I Corinthians 14:27)
10. There is to be one interpreter--no more, no less. (I Corinthians 14:27)
11. If there is no interpreter, there is to be no speaking. (I Corinthians 14:28)
12. Women are not permitted to speak either in tongues or interpreting. (I Corinthians 14:34)
The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

SavedByGrace

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:25 AM »
On Speaking in Tongues
by J. Paul Reno

The following material is not to be taken as either a recommendation or a condemnation of speaking in tongues. (I Corinthians 14:39) The purpose is simple. If speaking in tongues is of God, then it must conform to God's rules. However, conforming to these rules does not guarantee that it is of God. If speaking in tongues breaks the rules of God, then it is not of God. If it keeps the rules, then we should try the spirit to see if it is the Holy Spirit. (I John 4:1-1)
If you are spiritual, you will accept the authority of God's Word on this subject of His rules on the tongues issue. (I Corinthians 14:37) If you desire to be ignorant in this area, you will succeed! (I Corinthians 14:38)
The term "tongues" will be used to refer only to that which is a true gift of the Holy Spirit. In that tongues are being counterfeited by demons and/or the flesh, these rules apply only to that which is of God.

1. Do not covet or seek to speak in tongues. (I Corinthians 12:31,28)
2. Tongues are worthless if you don't have true love. (I Corinthians 13:1)
3. True tongues will not cause divisions in the Church, but rather will establish unity. (I Corinthians 12:25) . . . There will be no confusion caused by the tongues, but the result will be peace. (I Corinthians 14:33) . . . All things, tongues included, are to be done decently and in order. (I Corinthians 14:40)
4. Not all saved will be able to speak in tongues. (I Corinthians 12:30,10,11)
5. Tongues are the least important and least valuable of all gifts (I Corinthians 12:28,30), and therefore should not usurp the more important gifts of the Holy Spirit.
6. Five words spoken with understanding are more important than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue (I Corinthians 14:19), and therefore tongues will not replace teaching and preaching.
7. Tongues are not to be used unless they edify others. (I Corinthians 14:26,23)
8. There must be at least two, but no more than three speaking when tongues are used. (I Corinthians 14:27)
9. These two or three are to take turns speaking. (I Corinthians 14:27)
10. There is to be one interpreter--no more, no less. (I Corinthians 14:27)
11. If there is no interpreter, there is to be no speaking. (I Corinthians 14:28)
12. Women are not permitted to speak either in tongues or interpreting. (I Corinthians 14:34)
The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2009, 08:36:02 AM »
The following material is not to be taken as either a recommendation or a condemnation of speaking in tongues. (I Corinthians 14:39)

I had to chuckle when I read this first line because it is just so typical of Christians. Wishy-washy all the way. Not for or against anything. Is that any way that God wants his people to be? Can we not take a stand on anything as being unbiblical? I have a friend who always says "I'm not going to condemn Christian Rock and Roll as wrong, but I'm not going to say it is right either". I just don't understand these Christians. Make a decision for Pete's sake. Stand for something.

Anyway, that's just my rant for today.

My stand is that Pentecostalism is another religion, speaking in tongues (or what passes for it today) is of the devil, because it most certainly is not of God, and yet proclaims to be. The healing ministries are shams, scams and shenanigans.

SavedByGrace

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #84 on: March 19, 2009, 12:08:25 PM »
Frank,

Thank you for your comment but your point has been made many times before and seems to be non-applicable here.

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The following material is not to be taken as either a recommendation or a condemnation of speaking in tongues
“typical of Christians. Wishy-washy all the way. Not for or against anything.”

If you will notice that the above article was not written to recommend or condemn anything, but only to give some guidelines for speaking in tongues.  From what you see, you be the judge of what is going on in the churches today as to whether they follow the Biblical guidelines set forth by the Bible or not. 
This is a test ---- only a test.

Bill
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Frank Mortimer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #85 on: March 19, 2009, 03:08:03 PM »
Frank,

Thank you for your comment but your point has been made many times before and seems to be non-applicable here.


Hi Bill N june,
  How so?

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Quote
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The following material is not to be taken as either a recommendation or a condemnation of speaking in tongues
“typical of Christians. Wishy-washy all the way. Not for or against anything.”

If you will notice that the above article was not written to recommend or condemn anything, but only to give some guidelines for speaking in tongues.

I know it wasn't. That's what I was getting at. If Christians are for speaking in tongues and think that it is biblical, they should say it. If they are against speaking in tongues, and think that it is unbiblical, they should say that too. If they are ignorant of the issue, they should find out if it is or is not, or not speak about it. But don't say I'm not going to recommend or condemn it either. I think that's wrong. Doesn't scripture say somewhere, "don't give an uncertain or non descript sound"?  At least that is what I believe.


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From what you see, you be the judge of what is going on in the churches today as to whether they follow the Biblical guidelines set forth by the Bible or not. 

Well of course, a bllind man can see that they do not follow the rules. And I suspect the author is more against it than for it. But I'm more concerned about the "base" issue that theologians don't seem to know that whether Christians were to following the rules or not today, it still would be unbiblical. Because speaking in tongues, as they define it, is unbiblical period!

To tell you the truth, I have more respect for theologians who will stand up and say plainly, "speaking in tongues are valid today", than for theologians who hem and haw saying they are not going to condemn it or recommend it. They are more dangerous than those who flat out preach Pentecostalism. The subtle is always more dangerous.


Chicago Bear

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2009, 11:30:37 AM »
Reaching Those Still Trapped in Charismatic Chaos!
by Robin Arnaud

Decades ago when bible-based churches and denominations first examined and weighed the teachings and impact of the Charismatic movement, they largely deemed it to be a benign and relatively harmless popular movement toward informal liturgy and enthusiasm, with a few peculiar practices such as speaking in tongues tied on. It has only rarely been examined by church courts in all the years since, but in the intervening years the Charismatic movement has morphed into a shrouded form of renegade gnosticism that threatens not only the doctrines of the faith once delivered, but the spiritual well being of the people and churches in which it has been given room to flourish. Much of today’s Charismaticism bears little resemblance to biblical Christianity beyond the nominal employment of “Christian” identity and the use of historically Christian terms and organization.

Those of us who have been plucked from the storm and newly planted on the firm foundation of God’s infallible Word share a deep burden for those still caught in the seduction and superstition of the movement. Just as we once longed to see our non-Charismatic friends and loved ones who we felt were “caught in cold, dead orthodoxy” become “liberated” into the “move of God in the gifts and fullness” of the Charismatic movement, we now long to see them return with us to the certainty and stability of the faith once delivered to the saints. Having been ourselves once seduced by the illusion of signs and wonders like those known to the first century Church, we understand all too well why those still lost in that world would wish to stay.

Millions today are fleeing from Pentecostalism’s disastrous, lingering effects. The majority of those who finally see the hollowness and deception of Pentecostalism leave the movement and remain unchurched for the remainder of their lives. But there are many who turn back to the Bible, back to the roots of their Christian heritage in search of purity, simplicity, and genuineness in their faith. Historically orthodox churches have not ministered effectively to these “refugees.” It is not for any lack of love for them, nor because ex-Charismatics have not sought help from orthodox churches. Rather it is in large part because most non-Charismatic churches simply do not understand what today’s Charismatic teachers are meting out in the name of Jesus, nor why so many find Pentecostalism so appealing.

“Non-liturgical” appeal won’t help

“Contemporary” church services and “relaxed” liturgies do not offer a viable alternative to the Charismatic experience. Upbeat music and casual dress are seen as cheap substitutes for the very real thrill of expectancy that is characteristic of Charismatic gatherings. Knowing that the Spirit has liberty to move in any way He wishes; expecting to witness a “manifestation of the Spirit” rather than following a pre-printed script or having an informal sing-along and sermon, Charismatics and Pentecostals truly anticipate a close encounter with God when they gather together. Their non-Pentecostal counterparts really ought to do the same. We are there to meet God; and He has promised to disclose Himself to those who love Him (John 14:21). He is genuinely present among even two or three who gather in His name (Matthew 18:20). Yet all too often we gather as if to pay homage to a distant God, with no real expectation that He’ll actually show up, let alone show up and do what He has promised in the above verses. That sense of expectation and openness to whatever God might do is part of the appeal of Pentecostalism. That is what they think they’d be giving up if they come out of Pentecostalism. We must demonstrate that their fear is not justified! But all too often our churches appear to demonstrate just the opposite.

Reason Won’t Help

Charismatics are taught that logic and reason are “man’s wisdom” and are not to be employed or trusted by people who walk “by the Spirit.” Just as the ancient Gnostics drew a sharp line of division between soul and body (all that is of the body was thought to be temporary and inconsequential while all that is of the soul was said to be eternal and good), so many in Pentecostalism and its offspring maintain a distinction between “soul” (temporal reason, logic) and “spirit” (eternal and that which transcends human comprehension). And just as the Gnostics disregarded the body to pursue their secret knowledge, so also the Charismatics abandon reason to “experience life in the spirit.” Charismatics can point to Scriptures like 1st Corinthians 2:9-16 and 2nd Corinthians 3:6 to justify this abandonment of reason and to distort the plain meaning of the Scriptures that command us to “study to show yourself approved (2nd Timothy 2:15)” and to stand fast and continue in sound doctrine (1st Timothy 4:6, 6:3, 20; 2nd Timothy 1:13 and 3:14-17; 4:3; Galatians 1:8-9 and many more). “The letter kills,” they warn, “but the Spirit gives life!” The entire original context of that saying (2nd Corinthians 3:6) has nothing whatever to do with reason-versus-revelation, but rather lawkeeping-versus-faith! Faith is not an alternative to reason, as they would have us believe. Rather, faith is supposed to result from Spirit led reasoning from the Scriptures (Isaiah 1:18, Acts 17:2, 18:4), for “the law is our tutor to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24).” Yet Charismatics have been taught to dismiss reason as “a hindrance to the spirit.”

Religious Addiction

What we are really dealing with in our Charismatic friends is religious addiction. It is every bit as real and as damaging as any other addiction. And like most addicts, only those who are brought low enough to see the truth finally seek help, or give up hope. It is only when the drink or the drug or the pleasure fails to deliver as promised — over and over again — that the addict is finally prepared to listen to reason. When a soul is seduced by the empty promises of Charismaticism and reason is dismissed as a hindrance, the grip of this heresy tightens incredibly. One trapped in its hold seldom is prepared to reemploy long-abandoned reason until real drought and famine have set in. A Charismatic has to want help before he or she can accept it. As long as they remain content in Pentecostal delusion and satisfied with the ear-tickling, soul-thrilling “high” it conveys, they will not hear our pleas to return to what they consider to be the bondage of “cold, dead orthodoxy.”

How can we help them?

Prayer is the most effective help we as Christians can offer to anyone — saved or lost, bound or free, sick or well, aware of the danger or seduced by its allure. At some point or another, the false teachings they cling to will fail them. Pentecostalism hedges its bets by blaming the victim; sometimes for “lack of faith,” sometimes for “hiding unconfessed sin,” and sometimes due to demonic oppression. Their prescriptions for these maladies always involve some equivalent of hypnosis, further feeding on subjective emotion and deepening the grip of cultish soul addiction. By keeping their captives seeking after that which they already have in Christ, these wolves attack the heart of the gospel; the fullness of Christ, and the sufficiency of His finished work. They claim that believers don’t “experience” what Christ has won for them because of some failure on their part — never on the failure of their own teachings! But at some point, often a point of utter despair, a broken Charismatic may actually be willing to question the doctrines of their teachers. It is at that point that they may be willing to reason from the Scriptures.

The Truth is Unchanging

The Bible never changes and is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. That simple fact becomes an anchor for the despairing Charismatic, who by now may be questioning everything they’ve ever been taught. The Bible is a bridge back, a reminder that though winds of doctrine change constantly, the plain teachings of God’s word have never changed. The simple disciplines of Bible study and catechism that so many of us take for granted are either completely foreign to Charismatics or were dismissed long before as unnecessary relics of “dead orthodoxy.” But having tried all the Charismatic remedies without success, even the most despairing ex-Charismatic who doesn’t abandon the faith altogether may be willing to revisit the old tried-and-true tools that have sustained the Church throughout the centuries. Their search for purity, simplicity, and rest may finally drive them back to the unchanging word of God as it is revealed in the Bible.

The Reformation Revisited

At a time centuries ago when the Bible was not available to most people, the gospel was buried in Roman Catholic malpractice, superstition, and corruption. So it is today in the Charismatic movement. The Bible is pushed aside except as a prop for “proof texting” popular teachings and for lending credibility to some “prophetic word.” The truth is obscured for the sake of keeping the sheep in bondage to the influence of corrupt wolves and hirelings who care not for the sheep, but for themselves (Ezekiel 34, Jeremiah 23). Modern Charismaticism is exactly like Roman Catholicism was in the Middle Ages; steeped in unbiblical superstitions, false doctrines, and control over the flock.

The solution today is exactly the same as it was back then — a return to the Scriptures; a new reformation that absolutely insists upon the supremacy of the Scriptures in determining what is so and what is not. But now even as in those days, it is not to be a “just me and my Bible” approach! The Bible is to be interpreted according to “the analogy of faith” as the early fathers called it — the foundations laid by Christ and the Apostles. As inspired interpreters of the Old Testament, it is their interpretations of the Old Testament and their sayings and writings in the New Testament that formed the basis for all generations to follow. The Church is called “the pillar and ground of the truth” in 1st Timothy 3:15, and its “common confession” (verse 16) of the Christian faith appears over and over again in the “faithful sayings, worthy of acceptation (1st Timothy 1:15, 3:1, 4:9, 2nd Timothy 2:11, Titus 3:8, Revelation 22:6)” and elucidated in the ancient creeds of the Christian faith. Those “faithful sayings” that Paul and John refer to are the most ancient creeds! They were the “rule of faith,” the basis for all interpretation of Scripture. It is this rule of faith and the Scriptures alone that the Reformation restored to the Church. And it is exactly the same that must be restored to those emerging from modern-day Babylon.

Reaching Those Still Trapped in Charismatic Chaos is an article by Robin Arnaud.


Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

beelsls

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2009, 01:45:41 PM »
I would agree that pentacostalism is chaos but so are the Methodists, Lutherins, Presbaterians, Catholics Etc.  Robin Arnaud spends alot of time and uses alot of words to show his concern for those "TRAPPED in CHARISMATIC CHAOS". While I believe its nice to have compashon for the lost it is my understandind that we have no power to save anyone; that GOD is the only one that can change someones heart. I also believe that not one of GODS  elect will be left behind in any cult. JESUS told us to preach the TRUTH and HE will do the rest.
We all worry about and pray for our lost family and friends no matter what they are involved in, however the only one we can hope has a plan for their salvation is GOD.
His Will Be Done

Bill

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2009, 11:10:27 AM »
Just curious if anyone here knows about or has had any experience with reformed/charismatic churches?   Here is a website of interest:

                                                  www.charismaticreformed.org

Can being reformed coexist with the teaching of the continuing ongoing nature of the spiritual gifts?  I recall the scripture where Paul states all are given gifts of teaching, healing, faith, etc. Yet, I know many argue they at some point ceased.  Some have said when the last apostle died, they ceased.  Others have said when the last word of scripture was penned, they ceased, one reason being that scripture was purposed to replace the Holy Spirit.....that particular interpretation really seems stretched to me as I do not see the Holy Spirit withdrawing himself from this world over written words he has inspired himself teaching us to rely on the Him, i.e., live by the Spirit.  However, their argument is that when we read the Bible and live by it we precisely are "living by the Spirit".  I just, however, do not think this is what Paul meant by "living by the Spirit", for if we reduce the Spirit to another law of the written letter, we simply place ourselves back under "the law", we're back in Galatia, it seems to me, and furthermore it seems to actually tend to drive one dangerously close to bibliolatry......

However, the scriptural support for the cessation has always seemed to me to be tenuous, at best....I've heard reference to when "the perfect" comes, meaning "the perfect" is the completed Bible, but I just don't see that that interpretation necessasrily follows, it seems to be a stretch as Christ Himself alone is our perfection.  Anyway, just thought I'd see what your thoughts might be here.

Reformer

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Re: Is Charismaticism or Pentecostalism A False Gospel?
« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2009, 02:11:21 PM »
Just curious if anyone here knows about or has had any experience with reformed/charismatic churches?   Here is a website of interest:

Can being reformed coexist with the teaching of the continuing ongoing nature of the spiritual gifts?


In the old days, no. But in today's Church "Reformed" has come to mean anything that anyone wants it to mean. If you merely believe in some form of predestination, you can be Reformed :(  You can be 2 point Calvinists and be Reformed and in good standing or a 4 point Calvinist. You can be a Charismatic Reformed Church or a Pentecostal Reformed Church. You can be Baptist Reformed or Methodist Reformed. Everything has been turned upside down.

But in my view, the Reformed Church and Charismatic Church are antithetical to each other. But you can go to the next Reformed forum and they'll tell you how the gifts have always been in the Reformed Church.  So you just have to decide for yourself what is biblical. Because the church can't tell you. They are too busy trying to please everyone. In Reformed theology, the bible has to tell you.


 


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