The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[Reformer]

Red is the color of the Dragon Satan, isn't it? The Red Horseman has to be coming in the power of Satan.

 Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Same Greek word red that is used in Revelation 6. I'd say the Red Horseman was going forth to battle in the strength of Satan.

Anyone know what happened to Bruno Kolberg's website? He had some studies on Revelation 6 that I would like to go over again. But now I can't find it. Has his website changed again?

Like so many Webmasters, they get tired of running a website or they get busy doing something else, or get tired of paying for it, or they're going to school, a new job, a new baby, tired of dealing with nitwits, etc., etc, and they just close the site down. Bruno has done that twice already, and put it back up when someone requested it. But this time I think it is down for good. It's sad but, most all the good websites have gone down. Except this one. It never changes, thanks to Tony's philosophy that it's always a help to someone. If only more Christians would have that attitude.

Have you tried the Old Web pages archive? They may have the site archived. Anyone?

[Erik Diamond]

Have you tried the Old Web pages archive? They may have the site archived. Anyone?

Where is "old web page archive" you talked about?

Erik

[Pilgrim]

Have you tried the Old Web pages archive? They may have the site archived. Anyone?

Where is "old web page archive" you talked about?

Erik

I already tried it, it's not there. Unless I am doing something wrong. You can try it and let me know.

http://web.archive.org/collections/web/advanced.html

[Erik Diamond]

Thanks for the link, Pilgrim.

I tried the link and it seems to be working.

Try enter the following Bruno's old address --> http://users.bigpond.net.au/bkolberg/index.html

Then set the year between 1996 and 2003 and press "wayback"  This might be what you are looking for, but I do not think that site has Revelation 6 study.

By the way people, does anyone have feedback on the idea about Black horse do with scarcity of Elects? Or do you have another suggestion?  

Erik

[Pilgrim]

Like so many Webmasters, they get tired of running a website or they get busy doing something else, or get tired of paying for it, or they're going to school, a new job, a new baby, tired of dealing with nitwits, etc., etc, and they just close the site down. Bruno has done that twice already, and put it back up when someone requested it. But this time I think it is down for good. It's sad but, most all the good websites have gone down. Except this one. It never changes, thanks to Tony's philosophy that it's always a help to someone. If only more Christians would have that attitude.

Amen to that.  I can't find anything on the web except a book he has written.

Have you tried the Old Web pages archive? They may have the site archived. Anyone?

 Yeah, I came up with nothing. You're right about all the good web pages. They are disappearing fast, replaced by a lot of blogs with a lot of opinions and little substance. Gone are Kolberg's page, Reformation Nation page, Keith Graham's page, Reformed Women exegete, Scripture Truths page is gone and a lot more. Who says the truth isn't getting harder and harder to find. All that's left is tradition.

Since you brought up the Red horse symbolizing them coming in the strenth of the Red dragon, I remembered this passage.

 Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

These horses come from the Bottomless pit, from where the Red Dragon was bound. Could this be who the Red horseman symbolizes? Out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone (false gospel) which killed the third part. What do you think Erik?

They do take peace from the earth by the word that issued out of their mouths, which is like the fires of hell.

[Erik Diamond]

Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

These horses come from the Bottomless pit, from where the Red Dragon was bound. Could this be who the Red horseman symbolizes? Out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone (false gospel) which killed the third part. What do you think Erik?

Well, the opening of seals took place in heaven when the Lamb opened it, however the Scripture does not seem to tell us exactly where red horse of Revelation 6 comes from.  Regardless, I believe the red horse parallels to the loosening of Satan and his armies from bottomless pit (Revelation 9).  Yes, I agree that the fire, smoke, and brimstone issues out of their mouths refers to power of false gospels and doctrines that remove peace (True Gospel/Salvation) from earth (church).  I believe this has already taken place. That might be me, but I am not surprised if the black and pale horsemen have already came.

Erik

[Drew]

Red is the color of the Dragon Satan, isn't it? The Red Horseman has to be coming in the power of Satan.

 Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Same Greek word red that is used in Revelation 6. I'd say the Red Horseman was going forth to battle in the strength of Satan.

Revelation
"When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come.
And another, a red horse, went out, and to him who sat on it,
it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another.
And a great sword was given to him."

This rider has the power to take peace from the earth so that men will kill each other.
He will divide race against race, class against class, neighbor against neighbor, employee
against employer, husband against wife, religion against religion, & nation against nation.
Causes every kind of division that he can, and destroys any human relationship that he can.
So who is this rider? The antichrist, a Political leader who deceives the nations.

Anyone know what happened to Bruno Kolberg's website? He had some studies on Revelation 6 that I would like to go over again. But now I can't find it. Has his website changed again?

 He's in yahoo Groups. Websites are a thing of the past.

Like so many Webmasters, they get tired of running a website or they get busy doing something else, or get tired of paying for it, or they're going to school, a new job, a new baby, tired of dealing with nitwits, etc., etc, and they just close the site down.

Sound like anyone we know?  LOL

Bruno has done that twice already, and put it back up when someone requested it. But this time I think it is down for good.

Some might think that's a good thing. John Walvood's site is still up. Better to go there to learn the Bible.

It's sad but, most all the good websites have gone down. Except this one. It never changes, thanks to Tony's philosophy that it's always a help to someone. If only more Christians would have that attitude.

That depends upon your definition of help I suppose. As for Tony Warren keeping the same old website, that's because Tony Warren is old fashioned, part of a dying breed that won't keep up with the times, and so is destined to disappear, like the Dodo bird. No offense

 Get one of Walvoord's books concerning the end times. He doesn't spiritualize and so you'll read what's there.

[gordonh]

Erik,

There are some new studies on the four horsemen at http://spiritualbiblestudies.com/.  I don't know if they will help or not.

Gordon

[Jeff]

Since you brought up the Red horse symbolizing them coming in the strenth of the Red dragon, I remembered this passage.

 Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

These horses come from the Bottomless pit, from where the Red Dragon was bound. Could this be who the Red horseman symbolizes? Out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone (false gospel) which killed the third part. What do you think Erik?

They do take peace from the earth by the word that issued out of their mouths, which is like the fires of hell.

 Tony Warren says the four horsemen symbolize judgment sent from God, including Christ on the white Horse. And the loosing of the seals is revealing this judgment. He says the number 4 is it's universality. The Red horse is Satan coming in strength of battle, sent or loosed from the bottomless pit as judgment. Does anyone think this might be a accurate conclusion (Biblical), or know of any other theologians teaching such an idea?  It seems strange, but also strangely fitting.

[Reformer]

Tony Warren says the four horsemen symbolize judgment sent from God, including Christ on the white Horse. And the loosing of the seals is revealing this judgment. He says the number 4 is it's universality. The Red horse is Satan coming in strength of battle, sent or loosed from the bottomless pit as judgment. Does anyone think this might be a accurate conclusion (Biblical), or know of any other theologians teaching such an idea?  It seems strange, but also strangely fitting.

Jeff,
  Interpretation isn't really a question of how many theologians hold a particular view, but of whether the interpretation has sound biblical support and justification.  As I read Revelation, I find Tony's position consistent with the symbolism of horses in other passages. For example,

 Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
 9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
 10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.

I think Tony does his homework a lot better than the rest of us.

[Lieberman]

Reformer,
  Are you saying that the Lord is these 4 horsemen or that the Lord sends these 4 horsemen? In Zechariah, the Lord sends them for what purpose? And how do you figure he sends Satan, the red horseman?

 Thanks for your help understanding this.

[Erik Diamond]

Could that all four horsemen represents Christ, because He is in charge of what happened to church?

Erik

[Tra Millwood]

I would recommend considering some of what Rev. Herman Hoeksema says about the four horsemen. While I don't agree with everything he says, some of it is very interesting, particularly the symbolism.

http://spindleworks.com/library/hoeksma/behold13.htm

 He also says the opening of the seals is not chronological, but he believes the horsemen are all throughout history. Which I don't agree with.